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RWA380
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BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:36 am

I came across this route map of BN from July 1979, it has OAK showing being served with n/s services to SLC, DEN, LAS, LAX, PHX & DFW. I realize this was seven months after deregulation, but what was BN trying to accomplish at OAK?

For that matter they also served SMF-LAS which I guess was a SMF-LAS-DFW flight. BN didn't last long at SMF last with BN?

http://www.departedflights.com/BN070179.html

By 1980 BN was gone from OAK & SMF -http://www.departedflights.com/BN060180.html

[Edited 2015-10-11 22:40:58]

[Edited 2015-10-11 22:41:46]
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:17 am

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sevenheavy
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:37 am

Can't answer the question I'm afraid but what's also interesting (to me anyway  ) is their ops out of LIM (and also BOG)....I count at least a dozen destinations, probably more.

Granted, I'm not sure of the frequency but I had no idea their South American ops were so extensive!
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:41 am

I used to hang out at Oakland Airport when I was in my early teens. I remember seeing a Braniff DC-8 during one of my visits. It was headed to DEN and TPA. Braniff did have the most gorgeous ticket counter at OAK. It consisted of chrome and glass and had a huge photo of a BN 727 as the backdrop.

Braniff went wild after deregulation. The company spent millions acquiring aircraft and opening up new cities and almost immediately starting bleeding red ink which continued until its demise.
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:52 pm

Braniff (particularly its president, Harding Lawrence) felt that the only way for the airline to survive deregulation was to grow, and grow fast, because he was being pressured at the airline's fortress hub in DFW by American and, to a slightly lesser degree, Delta. The only other domestic station that Braniff had which was substantial was MCI, which is not laid out well to be a hubSo, with deregulation, Braniff picked up every available route when they got to the front of the line, even staying up in line all night before. Braniff's only other hub was in Lima, Peru, where they had fifth freedom rights beyond Lima both northbound and southbound. Frankly, if not for the Iranian hostage crisis in 1979, which resulted in a recession, strong inflation, and a huge increase in fuel prices, it might have worked. In 1978, Braniff's domestic fleet was all 727-200's, then the most efficient airplane flying; they also had some DC8's (mainly '62's, but also some used '51's acquired from Delta and National) which were acquired to give them some additional lift, and of course, Big Orange (a/k/a the "Great Pumpkin") they flew to HNL from Dallas, later supplemented with some additional .

Basically, with deregulation, Braniff acquired some decent West Coast routes (i.e., DFW-LAX), but they also made some really dumb mistakes - like trying to build a hub in Birmingham (BHM), building a transatlantic hub in BOS (which they didn't serve pre-deregulation), and even leasing a 747 to fly YVR-HNL (average load about 20 pax).

But, in direct response to the OP, the main reason was to grow the airline as quickly as possible, in order to survive.
 
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:52 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Thread starter):


I came across this route map of BN from July 1979, it has OAK showing being served with n/s services to SLC, DEN, LAS, LAX, PHX & DFW. I realize this was seven months after deregulation, but what was BN trying to accomplish at OAK?

For that matter they also served SMF-LAS which I guess was a SMF-LAS-DFW flight. BN didn't last long at SMF last with BN?

One possible theory is that Harding Lawrence, BN's President at the time viewed deregulation as a temporary situation and planned to get BN in as many markets as possible so when deregulation was repealed, BN would be grandfathered in those markets. Also at the time, gate space at SFO was very tight, Eastern in particular had a difficult time securing gate space.

Next obvious solution: OAK.
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Coronado990
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:59 pm

What's sad is that even though SAT-SAN is shown on that route map, it never flew one day of it's life. The original BN ended up never serving San Diego.
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:10 pm

BN tried to build a hub in BHM?? Was this an 'on paper' idea? They had an impressive footprint in MEM....IIRC they owned half of A or B. The BOS venture was novel but running 747s across the pond with zero feed probably was not well thought out. Obviously their intl ops were out of the Volpe (term E) but weren't their domestic ops in B?
 
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting superjeff (Reply 4):


and even leasing a 747 to fly YVR-HNL (average load about 20 pax).

You must be thinking of SEA/PDX-HNL, BN never served YVR.
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 3):
Braniff went wild after deregulation. The company spent millions acquiring aircraft and opening up new cities and almost immediately starting bleeding red ink which continued until its demise.

Agreed, I know the infamous Dec 15th 1978 timetable cover fifteen new cities or some such stuff. I know that is the date they started PDX/SEA-HNL, got to fly the 747 PDX-SEA once.

Quoting superjeff (Reply 4):
and even leasing a 747 to fly YVR-HNL (average load about 20 pax).

As OzarkD9S mentioned, it was PDX/SEA-HNL & not YVR.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 5):
One possible theory is that Harding Lawrence, BN's President at the time viewed deregulation as a temporary situation and planned to get BN in as many markets as possible so when deregulation was repealed, BN would be grandfathered in those markets. Also at the time, gate space at SFO was very tight, Eastern in particular had a difficult time securing gate space.

Now that would make perfect sense as to why BN in particular went bat crap crazy with their expansion on DEC 15th 1978.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 8):
You must be thinking of SEA/PDX-HNL, BN never served YVR.

The route only lasted for 6 months until Summer 1979 then it was only running from SEA & PDX traffic connected off a 72S, miuch like NW did for many years from PDX to HNL.
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:06 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Thread starter):
it has OAK showing being served with n/s services to SLC, DEN, LAS, LAX, PHX & DFW.

Braniff always liked dense maps in their timetables. They flew OAK to LAS, DEN and DFW nonstop-- I'll check on the others.
 
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:10 pm

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 7):
. Obviously their intl ops were out of the Volpe (term E) but weren't their domestic ops in B?

The original Braniff operated domestic and international from the Volpe International Terminal (now Terminal E) ... Braniff 2 flew out of Terminal B - first the US side ... later the AA side
 
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:15 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 5):
One possible theory is that Harding Lawrence, BN's President at the time viewed deregulation as a temporary situation and planned to get BN in as many markets as possible so when deregulation was repealed, BN would be grandfathered in those markets.

I agree with this theory, in the very early days of deregulation, before the CAB was disbanded there were many that didn't think the CAB would b totally eliminated. So Harding Lawrence (and others) though the best way to beat this was to expand as fast as possible. Losing money was not really on their minds as the CAB before had kept controls so that airlines made at least some money. But all of the sudden they realized they were really "the kids in the candy store" able to fly anywhere and raise or lower fares at will.
Of course, the first was to fly all the new routes possible, then try to force the competition out by lowering fare to unprofitable levels. Coast to coast for $199 or less became the norm for many years, well into the 1980's.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 9):
I know the infamous Dec 15th 1978 timetable cover fifteen new cities or some such stuff. I know that is the date they started PDX/SEA-HNL, got to fly the 747 PDX-SEA once.

Not sure of every thing on the SEA-HNL with a PDX tag. But I do very well remember BN started non-stop service PDX-HNL in late October of 1978. For the first several weeks of this service they sold round trip tickets for $99 !!!! My wife was able to spend 2 weekends in Hawaii visiting her dying father on these cheap fares. He passed in mid-december 1978 fares were gone and also the non-stop from PDX. I remember they were using a leased American 747 both trips

Looking at the route maps is very interesting I wonder how many of the routes actually saw service and for how long (like Seoul ) I also remember BN announced service to SIN but I don't think that every materialized.


I also remember the last dying gasp for BN to raise money in March and April of 1982 was to do a companion fare for $1 no other restrictions, was a great deal for spring break for many families that year. We sold tons of them!
 
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:29 am

Quoting superjeff (Reply 4):
Basically, with deregulation, Braniff acquired some decent West Coast routes (i.e., DFW-LAX), but they also made some really dumb mistakes - like trying to build a hub in Birmingham (BHM), building a transatlantic hub in BOS (which they didn't serve pre-deregulation), and even leasing a 747 to fly YVR-HNL (average load about 20 pax).

Continental and Western both briefly operated YVR-HNL, never Braniff. To the best of my recollection, Braniff never had any service to Canada.
 
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:33 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
Continental and Western both briefly operated YVR-HNL, never Braniff. To the best of my recollection, Braniff never had any service to Canada.

Over the strong protests of AA, BN was awarded DFW-YYZ-YUL in 1980. The route only lasted a few months, then BN dropped it and AA took it over.

Quoting mwh787 (Reply 12):
I also remember BN announced service to SIN but I don't think that every materialized.

I have a first flight cover from BN's LAX-SIN route dated Oct 28, 1979, so BN served SIN, at least briefly. I think the route was served via SEL; I don't know if BN stopped anywhere else on the way to SIN.
 
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:02 am

Hard Landing by Thomas Petzinger Jr covers the year both before and after deregulation quite extensively and especially how Braniff lost the plot somewhat in the mid to late 1970s, especially after the departure of Ed Acker in 1975. It's well worth a read.
 
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:22 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 14):
I have a first flight cover from BN's LAX-SIN route dated Oct 28, 1979, so BN served SIN, at least briefly. I think the route was served via SEL; I don't know if BN stopped anywhere else on the way to SIN
Quoting mwh787 (Reply 12):
Not sure of every thing on the SEA-HNL with a PDX tag. But I do very well remember BN started non-stop service PDX-HNL in late October of 1978.

Well I spoke about Dec 15th 1978, because that is the very first timetable that the service appears in, The C.A.B. was still handing out routes until that date. The service does not appear in BN's Oct 29th 1978 timetable. But of course you'd know better since your partner was using the flight.

Quoting mwh787 (Reply 12):
For the first several weeks of this service they sold round trip tickets for $99 !!!!

That amazes me that my Dad didn't come home with a set of 4, since we went to our family condo over there since 77.

Quoting mwh787 (Reply 12):
in mid-december 1978 fares were gone and also the non-stop from PDX.

Again the December 15th 1978 timetable has the service listed for the first time & as you know that is high season, wonder why they'd bail on it before the holidays were over. My one 747 ride PDX-SEA with BN was on a big Orange. No idea of the reg numbers, as I didn't keep track back then, wish I had. Unless the plane had a special name like VS "Maiden Japan" which I remember flying.
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:17 pm

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 14):
I have a first flight cover from BN's LAX-SIN route dated Oct 28, 1979, so BN served SIN, at least briefly. I think the route was served via SEL; I don't know if BN stopped anywhere else on the way to SIN.

And that is the first timetable that BN shows the SIN service. It originally was via SEL then in the Feb 1 1980 timetable that route became LAX-SEL-HKG-SIN, at the same time BN operated LAX-GUM-HKG & LAX-HNL-GUM-HKG.

Quoting mwh787 (Reply 12):
Looking at the route maps is very interesting I wonder how many of the routes actually saw service and for how long (like Seoul ) I also remember BN announced service to SIN but I don't think that every materialized.

They did fly SIN started 10/28/29 & was gone by the 06/01/80 timetable. In that timetable it looks like LAX-SEL-HKG-GUM-LAX & v.v. was the only Pacific Routes other than DFW-HNL, even LAX-HNL was gone by then.
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:33 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 16):
Quoting mwh787 (Reply 12):
For the first several weeks of this service they sold round trip tickets for $99 !!!!

That amazes me that my Dad didn't come home with a set of 4, since we went to our family condo over there since 77.

I don't remember the window, I do know it was short...they sold out fast It helped that I was in the business at the time. Called a lot of friends and just said "wanna go to Hawaii for a hundred bucks!!!.. Those were the days!!!
 
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:17 am

Quoting mwh787 (Reply 18):
I don't remember the window, I do know it was short...they sold out fast It helped that I was in the business at the time. Called a lot of friends and just said "wanna go to Hawaii for a hundred bucks!!!.. Those were the days!!!

Being in the business you get to see those crazy fares first, I know you'll remember the half price fare sale in the early 90's & the sixteen hour days doing nothing but looking for sale seats & running tickets. I bought 4 sets to various places just for myself, when that sale happened. Paid $33.00 r/t to SEA on TW, L10's both ways.
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:15 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
Continental and Western both briefly operated YVR-HNL, never Braniff. To the best of my recollection, Braniff never had any service to Canada

They had service to Toronto in 1981 at least. Quite a few photos on A.net by Trevor Ogle of both 727s and DC-8s
 
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:49 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 19):
Being in the business you get to see those crazy fares first, I know you'll remember the half price fare sale in the early 90's & the sixteen hour days doing nothing but looking for sale seats & running tickets. I bought 4 sets to various places just for myself, when that sale happened. Paid $33.00 r/t to SEA on TW, L10's both ways.

Great memory. I distinctly remember buying a ticket at half price from my agency. They had to lock the door to walk-in customers as they were swamped with demand. You just don't see that many fire sales anymore. Tickets today are carefully priced to market dynamics and end up cheap without a bunch of fanfare.
 
mwh787
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:15 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 21):
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 19):
Being in the business you get to see those crazy fares first, I know you'll remember the half price fare sale in the early 90's & the sixteen hour days doing nothing but looking for sale seats & running tickets. I bought 4 sets to various places just for myself, when that sale happened. Paid $33.00 r/t to SEA on TW, L10's both ways.

Great memory. I distinctly remember buying a ticket at half price from my agency. They had to lock the door to walk-in customers as they were swamped with demand. You just don't see that many fire sales anymore. Tickets today are carefully priced to market dynamics and end up cheap without a bunch of fanfare.

There was so much chaos in the "half-price" and "fare wars". Most times these started because one airline needed to raise quick money then all the other airlines would follow. End result we all lost money. The airlines for flying people below cost and the travel agency because our commissions were cut in half.Lot of long hours and overtime pay for agents.

Our agency was open long hours anyway. We would hire several temps to man the phones and the reception desk to just take messages with enough information for an agent to call them back. We had about 15 agents and sometimes the amount of call back to do was over 300. We would guarantee customers we would call back by midnight! We would have stacks of tickets on our desks it took 3-4 days after the end of the fare war to assemble them and get them to customers. No e-tickets back then... and then there was all the tickets that would have to be hand written for many reasons to avoid debit memos

20 years hence things are much more civilized
 
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:40 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 21):
Great memory. I distinctly remember buying a ticket at half price from my agency. They had to lock the door to walk-in customers as they were swamped with demand

Our agency at that time, was located on a Llama farm in rural Clackamas county & we had zero walk in's which just meant we were extra busy on the phones with our huge client list. The days were long, the commissions were meager & on a per ticket basis I think we lost money, but as a whole we had a huge week, although the poor person that did the ARC report the following Monday was busy all day just with that task.

Quoting mwh787 (Reply 22):
There was so much chaos in the "half-price" and "fare wars". Most times these started because one airline needed to raise quick money then all the other airlines would follow. End result we all lost money. The airlines for flying people below cost and the travel agency because our commissions were cut in half.Lot of long hours and overtime pay for agents.

Our agency was open long hours anyway. We would hire several temps to man the phones and the reception desk to just take messages with enough information for an agent to call them back. We had about 15 agents and sometimes the amount of call back to do was over 300. We would guarantee customers we would call back by midnight! We would have stacks of tickets on our desks it took 3-4 days after the end of the fare war to assemble them and get them to customers. No e-tickets back then... and then there was all the tickets that would have to be hand written for many reasons to avoid debit memos

I honestly think you may have had it worse, we took on temps as well for the phones, but we had 5 agents & one person that put the docs together.

We blew through all of our automated ticket stock & we had quite a back up supply that had just been recieved, because we were going to issue for a big group on a TG program we had set up through our educational department in Nepal.

We had multiple hours spent handwritting tickets until the hands cramped up & the emergency order of blank stock was fulfilled.

Thank goodness that happened while I was young enough to survive it, I'm sure I'd not want to be in that chaos now.
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:01 am

Good Lord, their route map looks like today's Spirit! Although there are a lot of lines connecting cities (MEM, ORD, and Houston look like hubs), I wouldn't give too much credence to route lines equating to actual routes flown.
 
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:29 am

Quoting mwh787 (Reply 18):
Called a lot of friends and just said "wanna go to Hawaii for a hundred bucks!!!.. Those were the days!!!

According to the inflation calculator, $100 then is $362 today. A quick Orbitz search found AS flying PDX-HNL for $408. Just barely keeping up with inflation.
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:34 am

Does anyone have the dates and destinations for any BN LAS service? The only mention here was in the thread start but I just don't remember that or it was for a very short time perhaps Another possibility was that it was approved but never served. I worked at LAS so this is of particular interest.
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:08 pm

OAK-LAS did make it into the OAG-- assume it was OAK-LAS-DFW. Ended October 1979?

The OAK-DEN DC8 and OAK-DFW 727 probably ended same time; don't think OAK-SLC, OAK-LAX and OAK-PHX ever existed.
 
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:45 pm

Quoting timz (Reply 27):
The OAK-DEN DC8 and OAK-DFW 727 probably ended same time; don't think OAK-SLC, OAK-LAX and OAK-PHX ever existed.

Thanks for checking that out Tim, I can't imagine why all the extra lines, I guess it just looks better. That could be construed as false advertising these days. I miss the 70's & 80's is some ways, commercial aviation being one of those things.
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:59 am

Looks like BN DFW-LAS started 30 Jul 78 and LAS-OAK started 15 Dec 78
source '78 BN timetables
[photoid][photoid][/photoid][/photoid]/Users/jaytanguay/Desktop/Screen Shot 2016-10-27 at 9.30.09 AM.png
 
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knope2001
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:47 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 28):
I can't imagine why all the extra lines, I guess it just looks better. That could be construed as false advertising these days.

In the CAB regulation days it was pretty common for airlines to publish all their "authorized" routes even if they didn't fly them all. Route awards took a long time so there was some strategy and timing. Maybe (and this is just a made up example) Continental applied for Wichita-Minneapolis in 1970 because:

(a) it was common to apply for many routes and (knowing you'd not win on many or most) fly the best ones you actually got

(b) they really wanted a toe in the door at MSP and had been denied LAX-MSP, DEN-MSP and MCI-MSP previously. So now they applied for IAH-MSP, ICT-MSP and COS-MSP

(c) they have been fighting Braniff for a firmer foothold in TX/OK/KS for years and didn't want Braniff to get this market unchallenged

(d) they planned to fly ELP-LBB-OKC-ICT-MSP if thy got ICT-MSP

(e) they hoped by the time they were awarded the market air travel would have continued to grow enough to support it

So two years later when they are awarded ICT-MSP the country happens to be recession, traffic is flat and they also were awarded other, better new routes for growth. So ICT-MSP shows up on their route map but it's never flown. They may have ben put IAH-MSP, ICT-MSP, and COS-MSP as "pending government approval" already back in 1970. Again, this is just an illustration, and to the best of my knowledge CO never was awarded ICT-MSP. But this is how route maps often got very cluttered with never-flown routes.

When deregulation came some airlines were slow to revamp their route maps. Others were very ambitious at putting "planned" routes on their map -- Ozark has some dandies in 1979 or so, though at least they made them dashed lines.

At any rate, airline route maps often showed more than what was actually flown in this era, and it varied greatly from airline to airline.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:17 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 30):
At any rate, airline route maps often showed more than what was actually flown in this era, and it varied greatly from airline to airline.

Excellent point, Knope. One of the most infamous examples of this happened after Northwest was awarded Pan Am's routes to Scotland and Scandinavia in 1977. Northwest promptly added BOS/JFK/ORD/MSP/SEA/LAX-CPH, BOS/JFK/DTW-PIK, and BOS-KEF-PIK to their route map, with continuing routes from PIK and CPH to BGO, SVG, FBU, GOT,ARN, and HEL. Very few of these routes were ever flown by NW.
 
Italianflyer
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:31 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 30):

Wow....you weren't kidding. OZ has designs for a GDL focus city lol

http://www.departedflights.com/OZ102978.html
 
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RWA380
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:37 pm

Quoting Italianflyer (Reply 32):
Wow....you weren't kidding. OZ has designs for a GDL focus city lol

http://www.departedflights.com/OZ102978.html

I have never seen this, amazing little ol OZ going International in a big way, inter Mexico flights, quite ambitious!

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 30):
n the CAB regulation days it was pretty common for airlines to publish all their "authorized" routes even if they didn't fly them all. Route awards took a long time so there was some strategy and timing. Maybe (and this is just a made up example) Continental applied for Wichita-Minneapolis in 1970 because:

(a) it was common to apply for many routes and (knowing you'd not win on many or most) fly the best ones you actually got

(b) they really wanted a toe in the door at MSP and had been denied LAX-MSP, DEN-MSP and MCI-MSP previously. So now they applied for IAH-MSP, ICT-MSP and COS-MSP

What you are saying makes complete sense. In fact you made me think of how CO ended up serving PDX & SEA. In the mid 60's they had an interchange service with UA from DEN, but in 67 or 68 they were awarded SEA-PDX-ICT/OKC & there were 707's or 720's flying that, until CO got awarded PDX-DEN. I can't imagine how many people flew to OKC or ICT.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
BostonBeau
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:18 pm

I remember waiting in Terminal E at Logan for a friend arriving on British Airways. I was upstairs on the departures level watching planes landing. There was an elderly couple in their 80's sitting near me. When an orange BN 747 landed,the sweet little old lady said to her husband "That plane looks like a giant orange d*ck". I nearly fell on the floor laughing.
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:31 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 33):
I can't imagine how many people flew to OKC or ICT.

I'm sure there was a decent amount of Boeing traffic to ICT. I think at least some of CO's flights continued to MSY, where Boeing also had a large facility in the late 1960s, to support the Apollo program.
 
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RWA380
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:37 am

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 35):
I'm sure there was a decent amount of Boeing traffic to ICT. I think at least some of CO's flights continued to MSY, where Boeing also had a large facility in the late 1960s, to support the Apollo program.

Hopefully they did better than when TW tried that route for about 5 minutes in the 90's. Thanks for the insight.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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m404
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:43 am

I just had a friend say he remembered BN flying RNO-LAS-DFW.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
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RWA380
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:39 am

Quoting m404 (Reply 37):

I just had a friend say he remembered BN flying RNO-LAS-DFW.

For quite a few years IIRC.....
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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OzarkD9S
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:10 am

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 30):


When deregulation came some airlines were slow to revamp their route maps. Others were very ambitious at putting "planned" routes on their map -- Ozark has some dandies in 1979 or so, though at least they made them dashed lines.

As did Southern:
http://www.departedflights.com/SO032177.html

And the original Frontier:
http://www.departedflights.com/SO032177.html

Hughes Airwest:
http://www.departedflights.com/SO032177.html

Texas International:
http://www.departedflights.com/SO032177.html
"True, I talk of dreams,
Which are the children of an idle brain." -Mercutio
 
rugger
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:07 pm

Why are all those route maps the same one? Southern. I suspect a linking error.
 
mwh787
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:19 pm

I think these are the ones he was referencing Some of these airlines really wanted to grow I wonder if they had enough planes to do all of the routes they wanted


Frontier

http://www.departedflights.com/FL030277.html


Hughes Airwest
http://www.departedflights.com/RW102675.html


Texas International

http://www.departedflights.com/TI031578.html
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: BN In 1979 At OAK Why The Focus City Style Flying?

Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:35 pm

Quoting mwh787 (Reply 41):
I wonder if they had enough planes to do all of the routes they wanted

Before deregulation, airlines had several months to begin service on a route after it was awarded. This gave them time to buy additional aircraft to serve their new routes, or reduce frequencies elsewhere to free up capacity for the new route.

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