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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:09 pm

An aviation analyst reached out to AA, who said they're investigating but it appears the customer was asked to deplane for using some "colorful language" toward a crewmember.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:16 pm

Quoting slvrblt (Reply 48):

There was something a lot more serious happening than a flight attendant power trip. The clue to that is in the FA website where the FA's version comes out. The part where they wrote, The crew contacted a CRO Agent, and FP was removed from the aircraft. . Since the FP was removed from the aircraft while still at the gate, that decision rests not with the crew, but with the agents and ground supervisors. A CRO manager (this is not an agent) must be contacted first, given the facts, before denying boarding.

A lot of a.netters are unclear on who is responsible for the aircraft and when the captain's authority takes over. Calling a CRO (Complaint Resolution Officer) was the correct thing to do. Glad to see AA followed the procedure. It is hard to find consistency in the industry.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
L1011Lover
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:28 pm

Quoting AI121 (Reply 10):
Their job is to serve passengers, not enforce their authority.

WRONG!

In fact the Flight Attendant job is both! Serving passengers AND enforcing their authority! That's why they have authority in the first place! Being a Flight Attendant these days requires the ability of having masses of different kinds of people under control and guidance. To combine that with being friendly, helpful and attentive sometimes isn't easy! And yes it has become worse during the past two decades! That's how I feel about it! So please don't come with the old argument that people who can't deal with it shouldn't be in service profession in the first place! I tell you that most people can't really deal with how screwed up our society has become! At least not in countries where they have unions and sort of job security and protection! And that's the way it should be!

I'm not saying that it is okay to be rude to customers or enforce authority when it is not neccessary... you can be very clear, firm and authoritative without being rude, but honestly I think the main problem with rude Flight Attendants is the flying public, the society we now live in!

The problem is throughout the service industry. As soon as people are in a profession in which they "serve" others nowadays they're looked down on! Many customers can be so demanding, so rude, so frustrated, always want the best value for the least amount of money, don't take no for an answer and most obviously they don't wanna be told what they're allowed to do an what not! Because in our society many people have become so self-centered! And I'm telling you this is getting worse! I've been a Flight Attendant for almost 20 years now and even though I still love my job it's become more and more of a challenge... not losing temper on almost every flight! When 20 years ago the rude passenger was a rarity, unfortunately it has now become the norm! Not only on the airplane but EVERYWHERE!

So the problem many people have with Flight Attendants is the fact that they have a little bit of authority! And that bothers self-centered, frustrated and rude people. Now her comes this waitress who is in a service profession, only there to make my trip the most pleasant one, to tend to my every need and every wish! And she has the audacity to tell me what I'm allowed to do and to add even more insult, tell me what I'm not allowed to!

That's hard for many people to comprehend!

I still feel that being a Flight Attendant is a great job and a rewarding career. Thank God there are still nice and friendly people out there, that make every effort we put into our job worthwhile! But most of you would be surprised what crap most customer service employees - not only Flight Attendants - have to put up with day in, day out!!!

About this thread, the video is no longer there. Obviously it violated youtube's terms of condition and rules, which to me says it ALL!!! But as with most cases these videos usually don't show any substance to the claims made!

Yet another issue which shows us how messed up our society is. Nowadays everybody feels that he has the right to film any person that's in whatever way bothering them and upload it to social media to boost the pressure! Sometimes I wish I could turn back time, at least 20-30 years! How lucky where we in the 80's and 90's!

Best regards

L1011Lover
 
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Acey559
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:21 am

There's no way (in my mind) the FA threw the passenger off; the captain would have been involved. Therefore, I'm sure he/she knew the situation so 20 random people complaining wouldn't have made any difference. I obviously wasn't there so I don't know for sure, but of the two airlines I have worked for, there's no way the captain wouldn't be notified if something like this happened.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
DXTraveler
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:13 am

"The customer is usually right" it's been my experience, in a different industry, that when the customer claims this, they are usually wrong. It's a tricky thing to do but sometimes you have to push back and set the record straight or people will run all over you.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:29 am

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 37):
don't go policing other crew members unless you are in management, it will come back to bite you in the ass... and hard. Crew members have things such as "no fly lists" and your job will become very hard when your name starts to circulate.

Sounds like a wonderful work environment.

Quoting slvrblt (Reply 48):

Good example of ''don't be so quick to judge.'' While there are plenty of FA's that could use a personality refresher, I tend to think that's not the case here.

There was something a lot more serious happening than a flight attendant power trip. The clue to that is in the FA website where the FA's version comes out. The part where they wrote, The crew contacted a CRO Agent, and FP was removed from the aircraft. . Since the FP was removed from the aircraft while still at the gate, that decision rests not with the crew, but with the agents and ground supervisors. A CRO manager (this is not an agent) must be contacted first, given the facts, before denying boarding.

Seems the ground staff and CRO must have concurred with the flight crew.

Who knows where it falls on the spectrum. It could have been the FA's "power trip" that set off the passenger and resulted in her using the inappropriate language. Doesn't excuse her one iota, but if so, and if instead the FA had been more pleasant, professional, and patient with her, it wouldn't have been a problem. Who knows?

I think a lot of how we view these recurring issues is through putting ourselves in the situation. A lot of us will relate to the passenger's POV. Many on here will relate to the FA's. Some of us in management will look at it from that persective. Etc.


More than anything, when I fly I give the entire chain - from check in and security to the FA's to destination staff - the utmost pleasantness and agreeability out of respect for their position. The last thing I want is to have to be put through something so negative that it escalates into a war of words or me feeling pushed around by the employee. So, when I read some of these stories, I tend to look at it through those glasses. Nonetheless, I think passengers nowadays mirror society as a whole and sometimes just check their common sense, respectfulness, and love for thy neighbor at the door. y sister-in-law has been an FA for 25 years and I've heard plenty from her - good and bad - over the years. She will go above and beyond to make sure that the friendly or needy are taken care of, but if you start flipping her crap, it's game on. I'm sure that's how most FA's are, and understandably so. However, just like some passengers are moron's, so are some FA's.

So here we are.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:53 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 55):
However, just like some passengers are moron's, so are some FA's.

That's possibly correct. But then I have been so very lucky at hundreds of flights on dozens of different airlines since my first flight on a DC-8 in 1971.

I have seen many passengers, if not morons, then showing a "strange behavior". But I have only seen FA's handling those incidents in very professional manners.

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 52):

Dear L1011Lover, your post #52 says it all. We should all read it twice.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
OB1504
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:04 am

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 52):
In fact the Flight Attendant job is both! Serving passengers AND enforcing their authority!

   This dichotomy is what makes it such a uniquely demanding position.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 55):
Sounds like a wonderful work environment.

No one in any industry wants to work with a person who will throw their colleagues (or subordinates) under the bus without first hearing their side of the story.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:27 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 56):
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 55):
However, just like some passengers are moron's, so are some FA's.

That's possibly correct. But then I have been so very lucky at hundreds of flights on dozens of different airlines since my first flight on a DC-8 in 1971.

I have seen many passengers, if not morons, then showing a "strange behavior". But I have only seen FA's handling those incidents in very professional manners.

Absolutely. I've flown MUCH less than you - well under 100 flights. I have actually never seen any real issues from either passengers or F/A's, though certainly some passengers probably have been a bit difficult at times. With FA's, most have been very good to great, some just "there", and of course a few that seem like they probably at one time carried rulers around to slap wrists in a Catholic school. Ultimately, I almost always would err on the side of the FA due to the nature of flying, but we've seen and heard stories of the vary occasional FA having a bad day.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 57):
No one in any industry wants to work with a person who will throw their colleagues (or subordinates) under the bus without first hearing their side of the story.

I get it. My remark was probably a bit too off the cuff. I just don't like the tone of a safety and customer-focused work environment where you are expected to tow the line and keep your mouth shut when a co-worker is out of line. Sounds like a liability to me, but you can't control how co-workers settle these things.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
WaywardMemphian
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:34 pm

What is "colorful" anymore in today's society where f bombs fly off the tounge like slobber from a bulldog's jowls when it shakes it's head. Discourse in America has plummeted over the past 20 years and the way we conversate has become more and more course. I can't believe how many times I've had to tell ask folks to clean it up at restaurants, waiting rooms and other common areas where I have my kids. I usually get a positive result being 6'3 280 pound offensive lineman.

Like most things the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle, The process of flying is no longer fun for most folks, it's a nessisary evil. She may have not heard the FA till the FA was at a tipping point, she may have snapped back. AA need to contact all the surrounding folks that seats in this area and interview them to see if anyone collaborates the FA side. If no one else heard that, maybe he heard what he wanted to hear. All I know is AA facebook page is a mess right now with a full Panzer attack underway from the social media justice warriors. Tryingl to get the video yanked was a bad move. RIght or wrong, it paints a picture of there's something to hide.
 
ASFlyer
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:21 pm

CRO's are there to resolve issues that arise having to do with disabled persons or the accommodation of disabled persons. They aren't there to resolve general complaints and this issue doesn't seem to have anything to do with a disabled person.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:01 pm

Quoting ASflyer (Reply 60):
CRO's are there to resolve issues that arise having to do with disabled persons or the accommodation of disabled persons. They aren't there to resolve general complaints and this issue doesn't seem to have anything to do with a disabled person.

Not entirely correct. While they do deal with issues concerning disabled passengers they also get involved in passenger behavior disputes in coordination with the captain and the flight leader. Generally, the CRO will ask the captain "what do you want to do?" The captain will then ask the flight leader "Do you want them to stay or go?" Based on that exchange, the captain will say "They can stay or I don't want them onboard to cause trouble in the air."
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
AR385
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:05 pm

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 52):
WRONG!

In fact the Flight Attendant job is both!
Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 52):
I think the main problem with rude Flight Attendants is the flying public,

Interesting. Please let me know which airline you are an FA for, so I actively avoid it.

My take on this is that one WHOLE side of the story is missing. Having said that, twice in my entire flying life, I´ve faced FAs on power trips. Once, pre-9/11 I told one to stop their behavior and go bother someone else. Nowadays probably I would have been arrested. The other time I called the Purser and complained. The FA was removed from the section I was in.

On the other hand, I have seen passengers you would not believe...I mean, not even in a movie could their behavior have been scripted. Passengers you/me, as a fellow passenger, want to grab by the throat and smack them. And certainly much more than bad FAs

So. Whatever happened, it would not be a surprise to me. The FA behaving like and A** or the passenger acting like same. Just another day flying, and frankly, in my opinion, this has nothing to do with "Our times" Bad passengers and bad FAs have existed since the inception of flying(with FAs) We just hear about it more due to the advanced communications of our age.

i do have to say that the VAST, VAST majority of the FAs I have encountered, are kind, professional and do their jobs properly. Sure, they may not be all smiles, all the time and some may be a bit sour. But certainly not like the bad apples we hear so often about.
 
L1011Lover
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:51 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 62):
Interesting. Please let me know which airline you are an FA for, so I actively avoid it.

And why is that?

The flying public on any given flight is usually a cross-section of our society... Now go out there and experience it for yourself. Our society has become somewhat deranged... I'm not saying that everybody out on the street is a self-centered, ignorant idiot who doesn't care about the people around him, but the number of people with such an attitude has definitely increased over the past 10-20 years. Too many people nowaydays only care about themselves and nothing but themselves. And it's become more and more the norm that passengers on planes are in some sort troublemakers... It's become worse, that's fact! For the first 50-60 years of commercial aviation we didn't even have to think about how to subdue and restrain passengers... it wasn't neccessary to know that, because it happened so rarely. Nowadays Flight Attendants are trained how to do it! That alone says it all!!!

Flight Attendants on the other way are there to calm things down, to ensure a safe and comfortable flight and environment for EVERYBODY!!! And that is not as easy as it was when I started flying almost 20 years ago!

That's all I'm saying!

So why do you want to avoid my airline??? I'm going out of my way for my passengers. I'm certainly not the most caring, most attentive and most charming FA out there, but I consider myself among the best and among the ones who really care! However, I make very clear when things are out of my control and what crap I won't take... at the same time I expect to be treated with respect, just as much as I respect my customers... Yes they do pay for their ticket and yes in a way they pay my salary but then in return I pay theirs because I use services, I buy things, I'm a tax payer... so anybody who is working is in some way payed and therefore supported by the people around him... Still it doesn't give people the right to disrespect others... In addition while I might be there to serve my passengers I'm also there to give them orders and instructions... it's how the airlines and the authorities want it, for the sake of everybody... and in order to have a safe, convenient and comfortable flight operation! If people would accept the fact that there are rules, that they are made with something in mind (don't question every rule and everything your FA asks you to do, though it might seem strange to you most rules have evolved over time and make perfect sense) and that the charming FA's are there to serve you but at the same time enforce those rules, then flying would be less stressful for everybody... passengers and crew members alike... But nowadays many people are too self-centered and always occuppied with themselves and take every possible advantage and believe that rules only exist for others not themselves!!!

That said you'd be surprised how charming, helpful and forthcoming but at the same time firm and authoritative I can be as a crew member... and 99% of my passengers love me for that... I happily will go the extra mile for you, but I certainly won't tolerate trouble-makers on my flights who make everyone else miserable, passengers and crew members alike!

[Edited 2015-10-14 08:55:26]

[Edited 2015-10-14 08:56:57]

[Edited 2015-10-14 08:58:12]
 
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exFWAOONW
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:46 pm

There was a segment on Fox and Friends this morning, so this hasn't died down. At least I assume it was the same event as the 5 seconds of video had "boos" and "you just lost a customer" raining down as someone walked down the aisle of an aircraft. They made sure to mention it was on AA a couple of times.

Of course, Fox said the pax was in tears and apologized for not hearing the F/A's instructions....
They all say that after the fact, even those in the wrong, so inconclusive at best.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
apfpilot
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 52):
In fact the Flight Attendant job is both! Serving passengers AND enforcing their authority!

Which authority would that be? There is only a very specific authority called out in 14 CFR those expanded on in OpSpecs are limited as well.
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
L1011Lover
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:07 pm

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 65):
Which authority would that be? There is only a very specific authority called out in 14 CFR those expanded on in OpSpecs are limited as well.

Well the commander of an aeroplane is in command, the flight attendants are his delegates... so they have every authority to ensure the safe operation of the flight as well as every authority to enforce every rule and regulation required by either the FAA, EASA or any other authorities of the country in which the aereoplane is registered... PERIOD!

Nothing more needs to be said...

in addition I may quote the follwing legislative text/law:

"Interference with crew member duties (including flight attendants) is a violation of federal law.
Under feder law no person may assault, threaten, intimidate or interfere with a crew member on board an aircraft under operation. Penalties for crew interference include fines of up to 10.000 US$ and inmprisonment or both, while an incident report may be filed with the Federal Aviation Administration regarding a customers behavior"
 
apfpilot
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:27 pm

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 66):
Well the commander of an aeroplane is in command, the flight attendants are his delegates...

Do you have a cite for that?

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 66):
"Interference with crew member duties (including flight attendants) is a violation of federal law.
Under feder law no person may assault, threaten, intimidate or interfere with a crew member on board an aircraft under operation. Penalties for crew interference include fines of up to 10.000 US$ and inmprisonment or both, while an incident report may be filed with the Federal Aviation Administration regarding a customers behavior"

the actual text of 14 CFR 121.580 is:

No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated under this part.

IOW you can't interfere with the crewmember while they are performing their duties , if a F/A tells you to stand on your head and you decline you aren't in any violation.
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
usflyguy
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:35 pm

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 49):
You've got to hear both side... and from a legitimate source, not some slanted sassyFA nonsense.
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 55):

Sounds like a wonderful work environment.

Those that go throwing their fellow flight attendants under the bus are the ones that the other crew members have to follow to clean up passenger service messes in the cabin because not only are they the crew member police, they are also the passenger police. Their behavior, more often than not, is all around the same in being that they are overbearing and always correct... when they are not.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 58):
I just don't like the tone of a safety and customer-focused work environment where you are expected to tow the line and keep your mouth shut when a co-worker is out of line. Sounds like a liability to me, but you can't control how co-workers settle these things.

I guess you wouldn't understand it until you've done the job and flown thousands of flights without customer service or crew member incidents.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 61):
Not entirely correct. While they do deal with issues concerning disabled passengers they also get involved in passenger behavior disputes in coordination with the captain and the flight leader. Generally, the CRO will ask the captain "what do you want to do?" The captain will then ask the flight leader "Do you want them to stay or go?" Based on that exchange, the captain will say "They can stay or I don't want them onboard to cause trouble in the air."

Like Alaska, CRO's at my airline are for issues relating to passengers with disabilities, customer service supervisors handle the other issues. Just because the airline that you work at does it one way doesn't mean all airlines do it the same way.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
apfpilot
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:48 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 68):
I guess you wouldn't understand it until you've done the job and flown thousands of flights without customer service or crew member incidents.

There was another recent video of an AA F/A who was beyond rude to a lady who was pumping in the Lav. Towards the end of the video one of the other F/As was basically begging the Pax not to write a letter to the company because the other F/A was really good at her job. Give me a break.
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
slvrblt
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:55 pm

Quoting ASflyer (Reply 60):
CRO's are there to resolve issues that arise having to do with disabled persons or the accommodation of disabled persons. They aren't there to resolve general complaints and this issue doesn't seem to have anything to do with a disabled person.


Is that the case at AS? AA similarly handles mostly ADA and ACAA situations. But you still must contact the CRO if you're going to deny or remove someone for other than an oversale situation.
..everything works out in the end.
 
gzm
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:57 pm

Speaking about the authority of the flight crew I will relate a story that happened in the late seventies: During an Olympic Airways flight on one of its YS-11s (the elevens,as they were called) a passenger must have fallen asleep and either because of sudden turbulence or because of a hard landing he woke up and started to shout, whereupon the stewardess calmly walked up to him and gave him a slap on his face. He got the message and did not protest. Those were the days!
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:04 pm

I don't see anything in any of the videos that shows any of the alleged behavior by the pax or the F/A that led to her ejection. All we know is that the lady was asked to leave the aircraft. Everything other than that is conjecture at this point.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
AA767400
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:56 pm

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 69):
There was another recent video of an AA F/A who was beyond rude to a lady who was pumping in the Lav. Towards the end of the video one of the other F/As was basically begging the Pax not to write a letter to the company because the other F/A was really good at her job. Give me a break.

That was United...
"The low fares airline."
 
D L X
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:25 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 72):
I don't see anything in any of the videos that shows any of the alleged behavior by the pax or the F/A that led to her ejection. All we know is that the lady was asked to leave the aircraft. Everything other than that is conjecture at this point.

And your point is? When has not having all the facts ever stopped an angry mob?

/sarcasm
 
ASFlyer
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:32 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 61):
ot entirely correct. While they do deal with issues concerning disabled passengers they also get involved in passenger behavior disputes in coordination with the captain and the flight leader. Generally, the CRO will ask the captain "what do you want to do?" The captain will then ask the flight leader "Do you want them to stay or go?" Based on that exchange, the captain will say "They can stay or I don't want them onboard to cause trouble in the air."

Maybe that's an airline specific policy then because, at least at my airline, our CRO's are specifically only to handle issues related to, or having the possibility of being related to the Air Carrier Access Act.
 
L1011Lover
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:42 pm

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 67):
IOW you can't interfere with the crewmember while they are performing their duties , if a F/A tells you to stand on your head and you decline you aren't in any violation.

And where and when in this thread did I or anybody claim that FA's have the authority to tell passengers to stand on their heads???? What kind of metaphor is that???? Sorry to say, but I can't take you serious any longer...

I've always talked about the authority to enforce rules and regulations implemented by authorities and airlines, to ensure a safe and comfortable flight operation for everybody and keep good order throughout the flight! Are you questioning the fact that the commander and his delegates - the FA's - have that kind of authority? What kind of crazy world would that be in which crew members on any kind of vessel don't have any authority over their passengers? A very dangerous one!

Asking someone to stand on his head certainly doesn't fall there... trust me 99.9% of FA's don't make up silly rules such as this one... I know it's supposed to be matphoric... but it's still nonsense...

So what are you trying to prove with that comment???


the actual text of 14 CFR 121.580 is:

No person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated under this part.

Well for reciting it out of memory from 16 years ago when I worked for a US carrier I did pretty good... it's exactly what I recited with very, very mild variation in wording... so again my question: What is your point???

[Edited 2015-10-14 15:43:29]
 
apfpilot
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:59 pm

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 76):
And where and when in this thread did I or anybody claim that FA's have the authority to tell passengers to stand on their heads???? What kind of metaphor is that???? Sorry to say, but I can't take you serious any longer...

The authority exists only to enforcing the rules and no more. Telling one to stop talking or to move out of the aisle when loading is not in their authority.
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
apfpilot
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:00 pm

Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
L1011Lover
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:34 pm

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 77):
The authority exists only to enforcing the rules and no more. Telling one to stop talking or to move out of the aisle when loading is not in their authority.

If you please read through my posts again... either you didn't understand them - which I highly doubt, or you din't read them properly. maybe you wanna read them again and then you'll realize that this whole discussion was completely pointless... I only wanted to give my two cents on why I believe that being a FA is a challenging profession these days, more challenging than 10-20 years ago... because combining the service role, with the authority role isn't easy and that many people seemingly fail to understand that the FA's are not only there to serve them, but are in charge and have some sort of authority over them... to which you basically replied - by asking what authority that would be - that they don't really have any authority... you made it sound like that... and that's just not correct and I tried to give you prove for my statements... then all of a sudden you come with metaphoric statements which don't really fit to the matter...

I still believe that many (not all, but many, many, many) of the incidents such as the one discussed in this thread come from the fact that many people can't comprehend and accept the fact that the FA's are not only waiters and waitresses in the sky, but they are an authority on the plane and have every right to tell their cumstomers what they're allowed to do and what not! And that they are required to follow their instructions...

And NO... this does not include telling people to stand on their heads and wave with their feet! That's utter nonsense!
 
AA767400
Posts: 1894
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:09 am

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 78):
Negative: http://www.medicaldaily.com/pulse/ph...35604

Well, I guess USAirways is on a roll then. Problem solved - Don't fly them.

Things are only going to get worse in this industry. We live in a selfish world, and both flight attendants, and passengers, aren't going to take crap from anyone. Everyone feels their needs come first. Add in a flying metal sardine can, crammed with people, and these stories will continue to pop up on Fox news. I've been on pretty much every airlines there is in this country, and I've had bad experiences with ALL of them, at one point or another.

Blame the unions, blame American society, blame Obama, or Trump.
"The low fares airline."
 
D L X
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:12 am

Well, apparently, the woman has spoken up, and it actually seems to corroborate some of what the Sassy Stew reported.


http://www.abc15.com/news/region-pho...phoenix-passengers-boo-flight-crew

But no corroboration of the slur.
 
apfpilot
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:57 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 81):
Well, apparently, the woman has spoken up, and it actually seems to corroborate some of what the Sassy Stew reported.

What part of the sassy stew does it seem to corroborate?
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
D L X
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:21 am

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 82):
What part of the sassy stew does it seem to corroborate?

That the event happened elsewhere in the plane and that the fa had told her many times to do something that she failed to do.

It gives some life to sassy stew's report.
 
AR385
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:26 am

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 63):
Quoting AR385 (Reply 62):
Interesting. Please let me know which airline you are an FA for, so I actively avoid it.

And why is that?
Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 63):
Too many people nowaydays only care about themselves and nothing but themselves. And it's become more and more the norm that passengers on planes are in some sort troublemakers... It's become worse, that's fact!

Because flying with a cabin crew that, sees passengers all as selfish, entitled, uneducated idiot obstacles to their job, are burnt out, should have retired a few years before, and are tired, plus have a generally skewed opinion of society as to think every person is a troublemaker, makes for a terrible trip.

Thus, an airline to avoid.
 
afcjets
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:46 am

Quoting copter808 (Reply 7):

Ever notice how many videos seem to start at the most convenient time? And it's usually just AFTER the key event?
Quoting copter808 (Reply 14):
Very few videos show the entire incident. Why do so many people insist on posting half truths, claiming to show the truth?

Unless your last name is Kardashian (or Jenner), you likely don't have a camera filming what goes on around you 24/7 and will only likely reach for your phone cam after the action is well underway.

Quoting 33Lspotter (Reply 30):
But given that that story - which, FWIW, is titled "Buh Byeeee, Bitch" from a site called "Rants of a Sassy Stew" - didn't cite any actual witnesses, quotes, or major news sources, and rather just made the claim that there were "witnesses" who said such a thing, I'm hesitant to believe it right away.

Not that it's unbelievable but I couldn't help but immediately laugh when I saw the name of the source in relation to the accusation made.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:55 am

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 64):
Of course, Fox said the pax was in tears and apologized for not hearing the F/A's instructions....

The passenger said that on the video as she was being ejected. Of course, we didn't see anything before that.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 68):
I guess you wouldn't understand it until you've done the job and flown thousands of flights without customer service or crew member incidents.

Of course. I just think there's a certain unhealthiness to covering each other's "wrongdoings" (for lack of a better term) at the possible expense of the business. As a customer, knowing that an F/A who is out of line will just be backed up by their co-workers rather than possibly report the bad bevavior, I feel a bit less comfortable as a passenger. Nonetheless, I'd agree that often times the noisy wheels are the hardest to work with.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:41 am

Quoting ASflyer (Reply 75):
Maybe that's an airline specific policy then because, at least at my airline, our CRO's are specifically only to handle issues related to, or having the possibility of being related to the Air Carrier Access Act.

  

Speaking as someone who is also qualified as a CRO with AS, this is absolutely correct. The gate agent controlling the flight would discuss the situation with the captain and if he/she wanted the customer removed, the agent and/or their Lead or Supervisor would be involved, not a CRO.

The CRO only gets involved if this pertains to any part of the ACAA, 14 CFR 382.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
L1011Lover
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:50 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 84):
Because flying with a cabin crew that, sees passengers all as selfish, entitled, uneducated idiot obstacles to their job, are burnt out, should have retired a few years before, and are tired, plus have a generally skewed opinion of society as to think every person is a troublemaker, makes for a terrible trip.

Thus, an airline to avoid.

You too should read my posts properly!

Who are you to tell me I'm burnt out??? I'm not burnt out... I'm just realistic and and have a realistic picture of today's society and where we're heading to. If society doesn't realize that it is time to change a bit and come back to our senses then things will only get worse and worse... more air rage, more frustrated passengers, and more frustrated crews... more frustrated people in general... We live in an extremely cold and selfish society compared to a few years back!

But please don't put words in my mouth that I never used! Read my posts properly!!!

I NEVER called passengers uneducated idiotic obstacles and I also NEVER claimed that EVERY person is a troublemaker! I said many, not EVERY! MANY as in a lot more than 20 years ago, also not many as in the majority!!! The majority of people is luckily rather unobtrusively or even nice!

The fact is that most cases of air rage - and again please read it properly, it's MOST, not EVERY - or issues such as the ones we discuss here, origiante from self-centered, frustrated passengers who have whatever kind of issues and not the other way around! Yes there are grumpy Flight Attendants who should have left the job a while ago, but there are a lot more passengers who should be taught how to behave on a plane... or should I say how to behave in general... because these people are often trouble makers wherever they go, not only on airplanes. The reason it escelates on the plane is simply the fact that you can't just walk off at 30.000 feet or even after the flight has pushed backl from zhe gate, combine that with the fact that they don't want a "sever" telling them what they have to do in preparation for take-off and there we go on the escalation spiral... this is how it usually all starts...

Why do you think air rage has increased on such an alarming level???

So again, please read properly and don't turn around my statements to use them against me... it's not a proper way to discuss things. Turning statements around or putting words in someones mouth they've never said makes up for usually pointless discussions! And it's not fair at all!

[Edited 2015-10-15 00:54:47]

[Edited 2015-10-15 00:56:27]
 
billreid
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:36 am

Has it occurred to anyone that the vast majority of these problems are occurring repeatedly on US airlines?

Perhaps it is a fear built society shouting and ranting because of entitlement of both pax and crew. The Pax believes he/she has paid for the right to complain and be beligerent from time to time. The crew believes they are always right solely because they are crew. So who is right?

US society is already built around fear and illogic. If the best way to deal with shootings is to have more guns then doesnt it make sense the best way to deal with rudeness is with more rudeness, and drunkedness with more drinks, with violence with more violence (consider Baltimore and St.Louis area violence of recently.) its the American way.

The obvious goal is fistfights on US carriers, because in the US media negativity breeds more negativity which has become contagious to society.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
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pvjin
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:18 am

Quoting billreid (Reply 89):

I think it's just entitled pax who think they personally are the very center of the world. People in the US and in many other rich western countries should learn some modesty and respect.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
Freshside3
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:32 am

Quoting bergkampsticket (Reply 35):
On the contrary I find a lot of people are quick to attacking staff. Particularly when iduetrial disputes take place and staff feel they are being attacked as a consequence of decisions that weren't made by them. I'm not and never have been employed in aviation so am not trying to fight my own interests here as the linked website may be, I'd like to add.
Quoting pvjin (Reply 90):
I think it's just entitled pax who think they personally are the very center of the world. People in the US and in many other rich western countries should learn some modesty and respect.

There has been an increasing number of "poachers" on flights, that try to sit in the Premium Economy or Business Class cabins, just because the seat is open.

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 77):
The authority exists only to enforcing the rules and no more. Telling one to stop talking or to move out of the aisle when loading is not in their authority.

Talking, no. Standing in the aisle, yes. Flight Attendants need to have everyone seated before the door is closed.
 
billreid
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:29 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 90):

Its not only the Pax who feel entitled, its also the crews. They take the position the Pax are guests and some guests are not welcome. At the. Same time the Pax take the position "I paid therefore its my space and. Right to ........"
So I see a conflict in ownership between Pax and Crew. The only solution is to learn how to emphasize, see anothers point of view, and find solutions.

Pray tell, how do you do this in a gun toting society that believes in "shoot first, ask questions later?"
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
apfpilot
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:12 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 83):
That the event happened elsewhere in the plane and that the fa had told her many times to do something that she failed to do.

It gives some life to sassy stew's report.

Sassy stew made it sound like the Pax was ignoring the F/A request, when the Pax said that she simply couldn't hear.

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 91):

Talking, no. Standing in the aisle, yes. Flight Attendants need to have everyone seated before the door is closed.


I mean standing in the aisle while making your way to the seat. Saying get out of my way I'm coming through isn't them performing their mandatory duties.
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
RDUDDJI
Posts: 2232
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:36 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 74):
And your point is? When has not having all the facts ever stopped an angry mob?

/sarcasm

Got a good laugh out of that one. But so true.

Quoting billreid (Reply 89):
Has it occurred to anyone that the vast majority of these problems are occurring repeatedly on US airlines?

Perhaps it is a fear built society shouting and ranting because of entitlement of both pax and crew. The Pax believes he/she has paid for the right to complain and be beligerent from time to time. The crew believes they are always right solely because they are crew. So who is right?

I agree the entitlement mentality is especially bad in the U.S. I think often people are just looking for a confrontation. But let's not forget, the U.S. is by far one of the World's largest travel markets (1st or 2nd, China being the other). I'll also again stipulate that we have no idea what led to the lady getting kicked off.

Quoting billreid (Reply 89):
US society is already built around fear and illogic. If the best way to deal with shootings is to have more guns then doesnt it make sense the best way to deal with rudeness is with more rudeness, and drunkedness with more drinks, with violence with more violence (consider Baltimore and St.Louis area violence of recently.) its the American way.

I realize that most European news outlets are socialist and love some schadenfreude at the U.S.' expense (I travel often in Europe), but if you really think that Ferguson and Baltimore are representative of the U.S. I feel sorry for you. I suggest you actually visit the U.S. or at least find a more reputable news source. Personally, I read news sources from all over the World before I form opinions.

Quoting billreid (Reply 89):
The obvious goal is fistfights on US carriers, because in the US media negativity breeds more negativity which has become contagious to society.

On this we can agree. The difference is that Americans know that the media has their own agendas (i.e. page clicks, ads, etc.)

On another note, it amazes me how many people I meet in Europe that think that U.S. "reality" shows are actually real.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
bergkampsticket
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:21 pm

RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:55 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 94):

Most European news outlets are socialist? Where did you pull that one from?
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:27 pm

Quoting bergkampsticket (Reply 95):
Most European news outlets are socialist? Where did you pull that one from?

It shouldn't be surprising that most of the World (incl. Europe) considers Europe socialist and I didn't mean offense by pointing it out. There's plenty of things about socialism that are good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurosocialism

Socialist countries (not surprisingly) have socialist media outlets.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
audian
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:05 pm

RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:03 pm

Where is AA/US heading towards with this kind of arrogant behavior? And it looks like AA/US FA has shamed a lady at the same airport. Airlines should first practice hospitality. The only area, they could distinguish from others.

If the story from the lady is to be believed,

If you notice an irresponsible FA with a bad day(may be his car got towed last night) behaving in such an idiotic way, you better kick him out and show others what customer means at their airline. Instead, AA offered a $250 voucher to the lady.

If FA has to be believed,

FA's should not expect fairness from every passenger. It's their job to treat everyone fairly while not expecting the same from customers. FA's are not there to kick out the passengers as they wish when the worst happens.

Apart from that, these days 'few' FA's behave in a way that they are next to super heroes.

Every airline in USA behaves as they wish, lose popularity, lose customers and revenue, post loses, reward the CEO, reinvent themselves from bankruptcy, claim they have new blood, change livery and logos, change crew uniform and then repeat the same rubbish.
 
copter808
Posts: 1384
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:17 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 94):
I realize that most European news outlets are socialist and love some schadenfreude at the U.S.' expense (I travel often in Europe), but if you really think that Ferguson and Baltimore are representative of the U.S. I feel sorry for you. I suggest you actually visit the U.S. or at least find a more reputable news source. Personally, I read news sources from all over the World before I form opinions.

And in both instances, what the world saw was not the initial incident, but the aftermath. Seems the US media loves only presenting the ONE side that sells.
 
bergkampsticket
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:21 pm

RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:31 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 96):

It's surprising to me when most of the popular coverage coes from sources like the Daily Mail, News Corp (Sky, The Sun, the Times) and Germany's Springer's Press. A long lomg way from socialism by anyone's imagination. As far as I can see all Europan Countries run capitalist economies.

[Edited 2015-10-15 10:33:28]

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