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D L X
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Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:49 pm

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 93):
Sassy stew made it sound like the Pax was ignoring the F/A request, when the Pax said that she simply couldn't hear.

That doesn't matter for the purposes of determining if there is any truth to Sassy Stew's report. Now that the passengers own story at least partially aligns with Sassy Stew, we know that Sassy Stew didn't just make the whole thing up. That they disagree about exactly how the events went down is immaterial to whether Sassy Stew's report can be considered credible.

So, it is now impossible to discard Sassy Stew's story as wholly bogus.

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 93):
Saying get out of my way I'm coming through isn't them performing their mandatory duties.

Are you really saying that throwing homophobic slurs at airline employees is not grounds for removal from the flight?
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:11 pm

Quoting bergkampsticket (Reply 99):
As far as I can see all Europan Countries run capitalist economies.

Politics and economics are not the same thing. We're not (yet) discussing economics. I think we're far enough off topic.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
apfpilot
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:13 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 100):

Are you really saying that throwing homophobic slurs at airline employees is not grounds for removal from the flight?


Absolutely not. Not only do I think it is grounds for removal from the flight I think it is grounds for being banned from the airline in the future.
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
D L X
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:23 pm

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 102):
Absolutely not. Not only do I think it is grounds for removal from the flight I think it is grounds for being banned from the airline in the future.

Glad we're in agreement there. Maybe I'm not understanding your discussion with L1011Lover, but in my view, this supersedes the discussion of whether it is within a flight attendants' post-9/11 authority to remove a passenger for failure to comply. If it is true that the passenger flung these slurs at the flight attendant, the airline had the right to remove the passenger.
 
bennett123
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:49 pm

Assuming that the passenger was abusive, being put off I'd the sensible solution.

Not sure if it has been determined that she was.
 
D L X
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:56 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 104):
Not sure if it has been determined that she was.

And I doubt that any additional facts will ever become public. The airlines aren't in the business of trashing their customers, and I don't think a viral video would change that.

However, there is this tidbit, from the Washington Post:

Quoting Washington Post:



American Airlines wrote in an e-mail statement to The Washington Post early Thursday that the incident has been taken care of.

“We are in contact with the passenger and have apologized,” the statement reads. “We have addressed the issue with our team members to ensure we provide a consistent, quality travel experience for our customers in the future.”

Fough isn’t satisfied with the concession. After Byrne’s video appeared on the news, she said, a customer service representative contacted her and offered her a $250 voucher. When Fough told the employee she would never use it, she was offered the money in cash.

“That’s how you’re going to solve this problem?” said Fough, who is seeking legal counsel. “What about my rights?”




So, now she wants to sue.
 
bennett123
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:01 pm

IMO, AA weakened their position by making offer.

Once you offer compensation, it suggests that you did something wrong.
 
apfpilot
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:04 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 103):

Glad we're in agreement there. Maybe I'm not understanding your discussion with L1011Lover, but in my view, this supersedes the discussion of whether it is within a flight attendants' post-9/11 authority to remove a passenger for failure to comply. If it is true that the passenger flung these slurs at the flight attendant, the airline had the right to remove the passenger.


My discussion was more to the point that many (not all by any stretch of the imagination. Think that they have complete authority over passengers and love to make sure that as many people as possible know that. I say that as a son of an F/A and someone who considers them to be an integral part of CRM and important part of any flight crew.

Quoting D L X (Reply 105):



So, now she wants to sue.


The fact that American Apologized makes me think that the thing about the slur is not very likely. In this day and age next to no one (thankfully) would support someone who did that and mostly would look favorably upon a company who stood behind their employee in the face of that.
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
billreid
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:29 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 106):
Once you offer compensation, it suggests that you did something wrong.

Not always. Perhaps you want to bury something rather than have negative publicity.
Its sometimes less expensive to buy silence than to be right and lose millions in business.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
WaywardMemphian
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:42 pm

If you want to bury something you offer more than 250 bucks. That was just stupid.

I'm almost at the point where folks go pro their experiences in full to protect themselves like Russian drivers have to to show true fault for incidents.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:39 pm

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 107):
The fact that American Apologized makes me think that the thing about the slur is not very likely

  

I wouldn't say that; you offer an apology and a discount certificate in the interest of smoothing things out, not necessarily because you're admitting wrongdoing. At my company we'll throw a discount certificate your way if you complain that the ice was too cold.

It's about finding the quickest way to smooth out an unfortunate situation (regardless of who created it) while recapturing the business, if you can.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:48 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 105):
So, now she wants to sue.

Good Lord. I don't know what really happened but I can't see suing solving anything and only makes her look like a money grubber.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
D L X
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:28 pm

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 109):

If you want to bury something you offer more than 250 bucks. That was just stupid.

The passenger is not the one that's pushing this furor. Is American supposed to give $250 to all the people who are upset that this passenger (in their opinions) was mistreated?

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 111):
Good Lord. I don't know what really happened but I can't see suing solving anything and only makes her look like a money grubber.

I can't figure out what a decent cause of action would be. Perhaps she should be suing the guy that posted the video. He's the one that made her famous.
 
apfpilot
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:14 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 110):
It's about finding the quickest way to smooth out an unfortunate situation (regardless of who created it) while recapturing the business, if you can.

In the current climate if AA was to just say that the customer had used a homophobic slur (if she did and I'm not assuming that she did) they would get far more kudos than then do by giving her a $250 voucher and making it go away.
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
D L X
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:59 pm

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 113):
In the current climate if AA was to just say that the customer had used a homophobic slur (if she did and I'm not assuming that she did) they would get far more kudos than then do by giving her a $250 voucher and making it go away.

And if they can't prove it, they've just slandered her, since now her name is out there. And quite frankly, she has way too public an online presence. Therefore, even if they could prove it, stating that to the public could lead to further harm to her.

Even if she actually was the wrongdoer, I think AA is doing the right thing by letting it die down. Those people that say they'll never fly AA again? Well, they either weren't going to fly AA anyway, or they're lying -- they'll be back on the cheapest/most convenient flight the next time it comes up.
 
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b727fa
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:35 pm

It's not slander to say someone used a slur. It may be in poor taste, but it's not slander.
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
D L X
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:00 pm

Quoting b727fa (Reply 115):
It's not slander to say someone used a slur. It may be in poor taste, but it's not slander.

Slander - n; the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.

If she didn't actually call the guy that vile phrase, it may be slander. It is a false spoken statement damaging to her reputation.
 
apfpilot
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:58 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 114):
they'll be back on the cheapest/most convenient flight the next time it comes up.

that's the truth. Surveys consistently show that in almost every situation the customer will select the cheapest airfare even when they've refused to fly on a specific airline in the past.
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
BN747
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:01 pm

These type of situations will only increase as mergers shrink the number of carriers available. The carrier knows it has the power (controls route and frequencies) - when carriers had to fight for customers as true competitors...airlines had a whole different about dealing with customers. The power tripping 9/11 FA is equally problematic.

There will be no upside to merger-mania except to stick it to more customers, because we're Ginormous Airlines ...and we can do what we want.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
afcjets
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:23 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 118):

I agree, however I also think it is a vicious circle. The airlines are shrinking seats, legroom, and routes (which has driven up average LDFs to almost 90% making flying as it is feel more cramped today than in decades past.) Uncomfortable passengers puts many passengers in a bad mood which puts FAs in a more defensive mode and with airlines offering so little as far as inflight service unless it is long haul in a premium cabin, outside of safety, it has turned FAs almost solely into regulation enforcers.

[Edited 2015-10-16 20:50:21]
 
wjcandee
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:30 am

Quoting BN747 (Reply 118):
There will be no upside to merger-mania except to stick it to more customers, because we're Ginormous Airlines ...and we can do what we want.

But not really. Look at how United is being hammered for their current service level.

There are great people on horrible airlines and horrible people working for great airlines, at least until they are culled.

[Edited 2015-10-17 00:31:51]
 
vfw614
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:16 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 50):
An aviation analyst reached out to AA, who said they're investigating but it appears the customer was asked to deplane for using some "colorful language" toward a crewmember.

If someone is working in a customer-service position he should not invoke rights to remove a passenger that are clearly designed for something else than for punishing a customer at the end of an argument which is not about the security of the flight. Outside a plane, it would simply be a case you could bring before a judge and not something that is open to self-justice - and we should not get so hysterical that any nasty interaction between two human beings is seen as a potential act of terrorism because it happens to take place on a plane. To be honest, I think airlines need to invest more into training employees how to deal effectively with difficult passengers in other ways than simply pulling the "you are removed from the flight"-card. In this case, a well-trianed FA should have politely asked the passenger to repeat what she had just said and tell her he was offended by the remark, mincing his words in a way that would have allowed the passenger a way out of the situation. In all likelihood, most passengers will calm down quickly and/or excuse themselves. Those few who don't and continue to be a nuisance may be served FA-style justice, if really must be.
 
bennett123
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:33 am

Problem is that a jerk at the boarding stage will also be a jerk during the flight.
 
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zkokq
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:19 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 121):
If someone is working in a customer-service position he should not invoke rights to remove a passenger that are clearly designed for something else than for punishing a customer at the end of an argument which is not about the security of the flight. Outside a plane, it would simply be a case you could bring before a judge and not something that is open to self-justice - and we should not get so hysterical that any nasty interaction between two human beings is seen as a potential act of terrorism because it happens to take place on a plane. To be honest, I think airlines need to invest more into training employees how to deal effectively with difficult passengers in other ways than simply pulling the "you are removed from the flight"-card. In this case, a well-trianed FA should have politely asked the passenger to repeat what she had just said and tell her he was offended by the remark, mincing his words in a way that would have allowed the passenger a way out of the situation. In all likelihood, most passengers will calm down quickly and/or excuse themselves. Those few who don't and continue to be a nuisance may be served FA-style justice, if really must be.

I disagree. They should be removed the flight. How would you like it to kick off again at 38,000ft? I think I would pass.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:24 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 122):
Problem is that a jerk at the boarding stage will also be a jerk during the flight.

That's pure speculation, and completely wrong. I could sit here all day and quote real world examples, but whats the point?

Once a trouble maker, always a trouble maker in your world I suppose
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
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b727fa
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:15 pm

vfw614, there are plenty of other work places wherein a "customer service" person can eject a customer. A pub, store, restaraunt or sporting event. Are you suggesting that because it's an airplane the freedom from customer bad behavior is to be waived? I can (as can most crews) settle down even the toughest passenger--but sometimes the only option is to remove the person. Not every passenger denied boarding or removal is an FA power play. In the US at least, the final decision falls on the captain with consultation with the invested parties.
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
bennett123
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:30 pm

If the passenger is being a jerk before departure, then letting them board and hoping for the best seems somewhat optimistic.
 
Clipper136
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:40 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 126):
If the passenger is being a jerk before departure, then letting them board and hoping for the best seems somewhat optimistic.

     
You can't beat the Experience.
 
vfw614
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:13 pm

Quoting b727fa (Reply 125):
vfw614, there are plenty of other work places wherein a "customer service" person can eject a customer.

You can always eject someone - but it should be the last resort as it is not necessarily the smartest solution of the problem. It is all about judgment. There was apparently a heated argument to which, from all we know, the FA contributed considerably. We are not talking about an intoxicated passenger, we are not talking about someone who got physical, we are talking about someone who was trying to do things that could potnetially bring down the plane. We are looking at two people who are both to blame for somewhat childish behaviour. Common sense suggests that you should not solve such a situation by going on a power trip because you have some powers the opponent has not. At least the captain or the purser should have had a word in private with the lady and the flight attendant and cool them both down - instead of hauling a passsenger off the plan and attracting tons of bad publicity.

Quoting zkokq (Reply 123):

I disagree. They should be removed the flight. How would you like it to kick off again at 38,000ft? I think I would pass.

Come on - there was an argument, she dropped in an insult. She did not go berserk or threatened anyone. With such an approach, we would have to treat every passenger as a ticking time-bomb and should simply stop flying planes with passengers at all.
 
ripcordd
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:23 pm

The FA did the right thing the plane was still at the gate and told management at the airport which then boarded and took her off. It was out of the captain & FA'S hands at that point. If it is true what she called the FA AA has no tolerance for such hateful language and you will be denied travel 100% of the time.
 
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zkokq
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:04 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 128):
Come on - there was an argument, she dropped in an insult. She did not go berserk or threatened anyone. With such an approach, we would have to treat every passenger as a ticking time-bomb and should simply stop flying planes with passengers at all.

So there in lies the issue. No respect on the ground, what chance does the crew have in an emergency.
 
bergkampsticket
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:09 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 130):

Could you imagine the response of posters if a crew member called the passenger 'the term allegedly used here? Their feet wouldn't touch the ground yet it's defended the other way round.
 
wjcandee
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:44 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 128):
You can always eject someone - but it should be the last resort as it is not necessarily the smartest solution of the problem. It is all about judgment.

Absolutely. When I was a partner in a licensed premise, we had the right to refuse service to anyone for any (nondiscriminatory) reason. Some people I personally asked to leave when the situation warranted, but just because someone was "colorful" isn't in my mind a valid reason. Usually, a brief bit of conversation from me (or one of my amazing staff) could rectify the situation, keep the party going, and keep a customer. Handled properly, that customer gets to recognize that they had been a jerk, is grateful we didn't open the door with their head, and spends money and tips the staff well. I have had people follow me around thanking me and aplogizing over and over.
 
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b727fa
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:34 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 128):
Common sense suggests that you should not solve such a situation by going on a power trip because you have some powers the opponent has not. At least the captain or the purser should have had a word in private with the lady and the flight attendant and cool them both down - instead of hauling a passsenger off the plan and attracting tons of bad publicity.

Again with the assumption of the "power trip." You appear biased against air crew (cabin crew in particular). You don't know that the CA or SCM/Purser hadn't already tried to settle this "in private." Bottom line, there was an issue, it was resolved by the CAPT recommending removal and the powers that be on the ground agreeing. Again, in the US anyway, the FA can't "remove" someone. They can tell the CAPT they are uncomfortable with Passenger X. What Capt Smith does with that info is up to her/him.

I've been called a "faggot" by a pax. Honestly, I've been called worse by better people. But my other crew told the CAPT and SHE kicked his butt off. *I* didn't say a word about it. So before you assume the "offended" crew member is the one who wanted the passenger removed, make sure you know who initiated the request and why.
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
savethequads
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:06 am

My guess is Tiana Fough actually did say what she was alleged to have said.

One reason. She is from Tillamook, Oregon.

Rural Oregonians are not known for tact, social graces, or tolerance of protected classes, especially coast dwellers.

She probably muttered it under her breath. Others may not have heard but you know when you are in a confrontation with someone and they mutter something under their breath you can hear it loud and clear.

To me the biggest red flag and evidence for her involvement is when she states this:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...illamook_woman_kicked_off_ame.html

"He said he had asked me to move four times and *then I was asking him his name.* He threatened to kick me off the plane."

He got snippy, she got snippy back demanding to know his name so she could report him, he didn't respond, she upped the ante. I will be flying AS from now on to PHX. I used to fly US. This incident doesn't affect me but since I had a bad experience with AA in in 1997 and 1999, I vowed never to fly with them and never have.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:16 am

Quoting b727fa (Reply 133):
So before you assume the "offended" crew member is the one who wanted the passenger removed, make sure you know who initiated the request and why.

Wasn't it stated multiple times that the offended crewmember was the one telling her to get her things? I might be misunderstanding what happened - at this point, it's sort of run it's course for me.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 129):
If it is true what she called the FA AA has no tolerance for such hateful language and you will be denied travel 100% of the time.

I agree that pulling someone off that's saying hateful things is the right thing to do because they have shown that they are not only upset, but vitriolic. My question (generically) would be what constitutes "hateful language". Just wondering where the line is drawn nowadays? On these forums, it can seem like open season on certain religious, race, political, and nationalistic folks, and no one bats an eye. Your comment got me thinking about what would and would not be acceptable?

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
coolian2
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:17 am

Quoting apfpilot (Reply 113):

In the current climate if AA was to just say that the customer had used a homophobic slur (if she did and I'm not assuming that she did) they would get far more kudos than then do by giving her a $250 voucher and making it go away.

You need to have a serious think about your moral values. To even suggest that is reprehensible
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DLFREEBIRD
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:11 am

I can tell you, whatever you imagined in your head this lady did to get thrown off, its probably 10 x worse.

if you're rude, inconsiderate, push or shove others, or your ignoring a flight attendant instructions. Damn straight they are going to show you the door. Look it doesn't take a rocket scientists to figure out if your bold/dumb enough to acting this way before the door is even shut, chances are your going to be a total nightmare once everyone a captive audience.

nobody has to put up with that. I am assuming the flight attendant in question has done his job long enough not to ignore the red flags this passenger was flying.

btw, folks this was a NYC bound flight, so the boo' s don't surprise me or the one-sided pointless video
 
wjcandee
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:00 pm

Quoting b727fa (Reply 133):
I've been called a "faggot" by a pax.

That, or similar words relating to other protected classes, would have resulted in someone being removed from my place. I don't give a crap about your "right" to express yourself; you don't address my staff or my other customers that way without getting shown the door, even if the particular staff member is cool with it. There is a line you don't cross in my place(s). So sorry. One of the perks of ownership.

(That said, I almost gnawed my own arm off one night listening to a member of a protected group boisterously using a derogatory term relating to that group in a non-hostile way over and over and over and over and over when speaking to a co-member. My brain couldn't stop wanting to react to it. I finally asked a staff member who happened to be of the same group what he thought about it. He didn't like it either, and found a very smooth way of handling the situation and turning the spigot off.)
 
alfa164
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:54 am

Quoting copter808 (Reply 16):
He will see things from a different perspective and see (in reality) that it was handled properly, yet the one sided videos make it appear otherwise! He will learn a LOT about people!
Quoting copter808 (Reply 45):
The video does NOT show the entire incident, so there is no way to know what actually happened

Really? How can you claim someone else "will see things from a different perspective". when you admit the "there is no way to know what actually happened"?

Maybe you will be the one who sees things from a different perspective...

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 80):
Things are only going to get worse in this industry. We live in a selfish world, and both flight attendants, and passengers, aren't going to take crap from anyone. Everyone feels their needs come first. Add in a flying metal sardine can, crammed with people, and these stories will continue to pop up on Fox news. I've been on pretty much every airlines there is in this country, and I've had bad experiences with ALL of them, at one point or another. Blame the unions, blame American society, blame Obama, or Trump.

   Absolutely! Everyone blames everyone else; we have become so narcissistic we show up with "selfie sticks" wherever we are..

Your post should be required reading before any poster here is allowed to comment on anything.

Quoting D L X (Reply 105):
So, now she wants to sue.

If she was on that flight - and needed to be somewhere promptly - and was booted-off arbitrarily, then she may have a case.

Quoting savethequads (Reply 134):
My guess is Tiana Fough actually did say what she was alleged to have said.

One reason. She is from Tillamook, Oregon. Rural Oregonians are not known for tact, social graces, or tolerance of protected classes, especially coast dwellers. She probably muttered it under her breath. Others may not have heard but you know when you are in a confrontation with someone and they mutter something under their breath you can hear it loud and clear.

   Good grief! First someone claims - without any facts to back it up - she demeaned the FA by calling him a stereotypical name, and now we stereotype her because she is from Oregon?

There is a certain irony in all that...

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 128):
You can always eject someone - but it should be the last resort as it is not necessarily the smartest solution of the problem. It is all about judgment. There was apparently a heated argument to which, from all we know, the FA contributed considerably. We are not talking about an intoxicated passenger, we are not talking about someone who got physical, we are talking about someone who was trying to do things that could potnetially bring down the plane. We are looking at two people who are both to blame for somewhat childish behaviour. Common sense suggests that you should not solve such a situation by going on a power trip because you have some powers the opponent has not. At least the captain or the purser should have had a word in private with the lady and the flight attendant and cool them both down - instead of hauling a passsenger off the plan and attracting tons of bad publicity.

        
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:20 am

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 139):
  Good grief! First someone claims - without any facts to back it up - she demeaned the FA by calling him a stereotypical name, and now we stereotype her because she is from Oregon?

There is a certain irony in all that...

That's why I posed the following question up-thread:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 135):
My question (generically) would be what constitutes "hateful language". Just wondering where the line is drawn nowadays? On these forums, it can seem like open season on certain religious, race, political, and nationalistic folks, and no one bats an eye.

As they say, it all depends on whose ox is being gored, I guess.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
D L X
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:47 am

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 139):

Quoting D L X (Reply 105):
So, now she wants to sue.

If she was on that flight - and needed to be somewhere promptly - and was booted-off arbitrarily, then she may have a case.

What case, exactly? Is it a violation of the contract of carriage when a passenger does not arrive "promptly?" No. It isn't.
So what other case does this person have? Being late isn't it.
 
alfa164
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:53 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 141):
What case, exactly? Is it a violation of the contract of carriage when a passenger does not arrive "promptly?" No. It isn't. So what other case does this person have? Being late isn't it.

The actions shown herein go well beyond "being late". The contract of carriage presumes the air carrier will actually transport the passenger; and, since you mention that subject, I have never seen anything in a contract of carriage that could be construed to allow the airline to deplane a passenger who had not shown anty tendency to be a threat to the safety of the flight, the crew, or the other passengers.

An no, calling someone an uncomfortable name does not constitute a "threat".
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
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EA CO AS
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:58 am

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 142):
I have never seen anything in a contract of carriage that could be construed to allow the airline to deplane a passenger who had not shown anty tendency to be a threat to the safety of the flight, the crew, or the other passengers.

Then you haven't looked very hard; let me present it for you. Pay particular attention to number 6:

AA Conditions of Carriage

Acceptance of passengers

American may refuse to transport you, or may remove you from your flight at any point, for one or several reasons, including but not limited to:

1.Compliance with government requisition of space.


2.Action necessary or advisable due to weather, or other conditions beyond American's control.


3.Refusal to permit a search of person or property for explosives or for deadly, controlled, or dangerous weapons, articles or substances.


4.Refusal to produce positive identification upon request.


5.Your physical or mental condition is such that in American's sole opinion, you are rendered or likely to be rendered incapable of comprehending or complying with safety instructions without the assistance of an attendant.


6.Your conduct is disorderly, abusive or violent.


7.Appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs.


8.Attempt to interfere with any member of the flight crew.


9.Have a communicable disease that has been determined by a federal public health authority to be transmissible to other persons in the normal course of flight.


10.Refuse to obey instructions from any flight crew member.


11.Have an offensive odor not caused by a disability or illness.


12.Are clothed in a manner that would cause discomfort or offense to other passengers or are barefoot.


13.Engage in any action, voluntary or involuntary, that might jeopardize the safety of the aircraft or any of its occupants.

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Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
apfpilot
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:45 am

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 136):

You need to have a serious think about your moral values. To even suggest that is reprehensible


I'm thinking you might be misunderstanding what I said. can you explain why you think what I said was reprehensible?
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
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b727fa
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:26 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 62):
Once, pre-9/11 I told one to stop their behavior and go bother someone else. Nowadays probably I would have been arrested.

No, you wouldn't have been arrested for that--but it's incredibly rude and speaks volumes about how you view cabin crew! (Curiously, what was your behavior that they wanted you to stop?)
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
D L X
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:34 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 142):
The actions shown herein go well beyond "being late". The contract of carriage presumes the air carrier will actually transport the passenger; and, since you mention that subject, I have never seen anything in a contract of carriage that could be construed to allow the airline to deplane a passenger who had not shown anty tendency to be a threat to the safety of the flight, the crew, or the other passengers.

An no, calling someone an uncomfortable name does not constitute a "threat".

EA CO AS beat me to it, but yeah. There are other ways to be removed other than being a "threat." The whole threat discussion here has been a red herring.

But you said she could sue because she may have needed to be somewhere promptly. That's what I'm saying she does not have a case for. I hope you can agree now that that is a dead end for her.
 
AR385
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:50 pm

Quoting b727fa (Reply 145):
No, you wouldn't have been arrested for that--but it's incredibly rude and speaks volumes about how you view cabin crew! (Curiously, what was your behavior that they wanted you to stop?)

Interesting how you called me rude, and that my behavior speaks volumes about how I view cabin crew without first knowing anything about the circumstances of what was going on.

In any case, I don´t understand your question, since this is what I wrote:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 62):
I´ve faced FAs on power trips. Once, pre-9/11 I told one to stop their behavior and go bother someone else.

You also seem not to have read this, or chose to ignore it, given you mention I view cabin crew a certain way.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 62):
i do have to say that the VAST, VAST majority of the FAs I have encountered, are kind, professional and do their jobs properly. Sure, they may not be all smiles, all the time and some may be a bit sour. But certainly not like the bad apples we hear so often about.
 
copter808
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:59 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 132):
Absolutely. When I was a partner in a licensed premise, we had the right to refuse service to anyone for any (nondiscriminatory) reason. Some people I personally asked to leave when the situation warranted, but just because someone was "colorful" isn't in my mind a valid reason. Usually, a brief bit of conversation from me (or one of my amazing staff) could rectify the situation, keep the party going, and keep a customer. Handled properly, that customer gets to recognize that they had been a jerk, is grateful we didn't open the door with their head, and spends money and tips the staff well. I have had people follow me around thanking me and aplogizing over and over.

THAT is why you're on my respected user list!

In most cases the situation can be diffused verbally.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: AA Flight Attendant Bullies Lady - Video By Pax

Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:03 pm

Quoting copter808 (Reply 148):
Quoting wjcandee (Reply 132):Absolutely. When I was a partner in a licensed premise, we had the right to refuse service to anyone for any (nondiscriminatory) reason. Some people I personally asked to leave when the situation warranted, but just because someone was "colorful" isn't in my mind a valid reason. Usually, a brief bit of conversation from me (or one of my amazing staff) could rectify the situation, keep the party going, and keep a customer. Handled properly, that customer gets to recognize that they had been a jerk, is grateful we didn't open the door with their head, and spends money and tips the staff well. I have had people follow me around thanking me and aplogizing over and over.

THAT is why you're on my respected user list!

In most cases the situation can be diffused verbally.

On the ground, without the pressure of an on-time departure upon you, and having the ability to not be in close proximity to other customers, sure - you can take that time.

Apples and oranges.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group

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