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NZ107
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SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:19 am

Hot off the press - SQ will order 7 A359ULRs, with a range of 8,700nm and will look to re-establish SIN-LAX and NYC nonstop flights. Delivery slated for 2018.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/singapore-ai...p-usa-flights-with-long-range-a350

[Edited 2015-10-13 03:22:40]
 
waly777
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:22 am

Nice! Makes sense to maintain commonality with the rest of their 350 fleet.

I wonder what modifications have been made to the 359 to get the LR version...has airbus released any spec info?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:23 am

Airbus issued a press release:

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...ong-range-version-of-the-a350-900/

The A350-900ULR has an MTOW of 280 tonnes. Fuel capacity will be increased from 141,000 litres to 165,000 litres.

[Edited 2015-10-13 03:26:42]
 
TC957
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:28 am

Isn't 8700 nm still a bit short for doing SIN - EWR ? Plus with 7 on order, this opens up the possibility of SQ launching another ULR route, maybe SFO or YYZ ?
 
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NZ107
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:31 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):

GC has SIN-EWR at 8285nm so a range of 8700nm should be fine.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:32 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):
Isn't 8700 nm still a bit short for doing SIN - EWR ?

The quoted range of 8,700 nm would be with 315 passengers in two-class. SQ will probably operate the aircraft in a different configuration.
 
migair54
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:34 am

Quoting waly777 (Reply 1):
I wonder what modifications have been made to the 359 to get the LR version...has airbus released any spec info?

The A350−900R extended-range variant would feature the higher engine thrust, strengthened structure and undercarriage of the −1000, increase MTOW from 268t to 280t.

With 7 planes they can do the flights 21xweek, maybe 2 NYC 1 LAX?? or they can do 1 NYC, 1 LAX, 1 SFO.

What about the configuration?? all business?? I think this time we could see again 3 class with First, big Business cabin and maybe around 100 or 150 seat in economy.
 
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Miami
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:37 am

Impressive. Happy it has been finally launched!


I must say, SQ livery looks great on a A350

http://www.airbus.com/typo3temp/_processed_/csm_A350-900_ULR_SIA_43d294cf6a.jpg
 
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speedygonzales
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:38 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):
Isn't 8700 nm still a bit short for doing SIN - EWR ?
Quoting Airbus:
Representing a distance of some 8,700 nautical miles, the New York service will be the world’s longest commercial passenger route, with an expected flight time of up to 19 hours.

Looks like 8700 nm is actual still-air distance of the route, not quoted range.
 
TC957
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:41 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 7):
Happy it has been finally launched!

Bet you'd be even happier if SQ launched a MIA service with it !
 
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Aquila3
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:42 am

I thought that 300+ passengers at circa 8500 nm was exclusive 778 territory. Maybe the 359ULR is just much more efficient in the nubers that SQ have run. Did SQ even consider/bid for the 778?
Anyway congratulations to SQ and Airbus!
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:44 am

Impressive development.

I guess we now now why they decreased their original a359 order by 7 then  

With a twin running such a long route should make this a far better financial proposition than the previous 4 engined attempt, but still somewhat skeptical about the demand for such routes. SQ much be confident though based on their numbers.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:48 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 11):
I guess we now now why they decreased their original a359 order by 7 then

Also interesting that SQ now re-ordered 4 A359 aircraft.
 
waly777
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:54 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 11):

Indeed, plus as per airbus the 359LR can be re-configured to the regular 359.

I presume this means the 359LR is not getting the 350-1000 landing gear? And the higher fuel capacity was already installed as airbus says addtional tanks will not be used.

Definitely a win/win for airlines with current 350 orders looking to try out ulh routes.
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:55 am

How will they increase fuel capacity, using existing tanks, without adding extra tanks, as per the article?
 
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MrHMSH
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:58 am

It's a good development for SQ, I think we all want to see them flying nonstop to the USA. It's not been mentioned on here yet, but as a side note, SQ have ordered an additional 4 A359s, bringing their total to 67.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
The A350−900R extended-range variant would feature the higher engine thrust, strengthened structure and undercarriage of the −1000, increase MTOW from 268t to 280t.

The article linked by the OP and Airbus' press release seem to suggest it will be a modest change, and relatively easy to reconfigure to a regular A359 if demand goes soft. It will be an MTOW change, increased fuel capacity and some aerodynamic improvements. I don't think it's the same as the 'old' A350-900LR.

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 10):
I thought that 300+ passengers at circa 8500 nm was exclusive 778 territory. Maybe the 359ULR is just much more efficient in the nubers that SQ have run.

It could be that they think the 778 is a little too large, or maybe the unit costs are similar so SQ is plumping for the smaller version? Nothing has been said about it.

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 10):
Did SQ even consider/bid for the 778?

I'm tempted to say 'they must have done', but I guess the numbers came out well for the A359LR.

[Edited 2015-10-13 03:58:23]
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:58 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 14):
How will they increase fuel capacity, using existing tanks, without adding extra tanks, as per the article?

The way I understand it Airbus will simply activate the A350-1000 wing tanks.
 
SYDSpotter
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:59 am

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 10):
Did SQ even consider/bid for the 778?

They most definitely would've, nothing like having some competitive tension when tendering for new aircraft.

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 10):
I thought that 300+ passengers at circa 8500 nm was exclusive 778 territory. Maybe the 359ULR is just much more efficient in the nubers that SQ have run.

SQ will more than likely have a premium configuration, so they won't need all the payload of the 778X. So probably no surprises they went the A350 direction.
 
ap305
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:59 am

Quoting waly777 (Reply 13):
Definitely a win/win for airlines with current 350 orders looking to try out ulh routes.

Perhaps this could be a new route starter for the likes of QR who could now connect to even smaller cities in North/South America.
 
Asiaflyer
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:05 am

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 15):

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 10):Did SQ even consider/bid for the 778?
I'm tempted to say 'they must have done', but I guess the numbers came out well for the A359LR.

The 7 A350LR came out of the existing order, so just the extra cost for upgrading needed. Dont think 778 ever was in the race here.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):
Isn't 8700 nm still a bit short for doing SIN - EWR ?

If SQ and Airbus was not convinced that it would make SIN-EWR, this order would never taken place. That particular route must have been the benchmakr for how much to increase the MTOW by Airbus.
 
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Aquila3
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:06 am

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 17):
SQ will more than likely have a premium configuration, so they won't need all the payload of the 778X. So probably no surprises they went the A350 direction

Yeah, it looks like the 778 (and the 777 in general) is a real winner only in such awful (for us peones of course) EK-like 10 - abreast configurations.
 
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Miami
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:07 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 9):
Bet you'd be even happier if SQ launched a MIA service with it !

You know me so well!  
 
dare100em
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:16 am

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 14):
How will they increase fuel capacity, using existing tanks, without adding extra tanks, as per the article?

They use the additional tanks of the -1000 in the wing/undercarriage, so basically they install the -1000 fuel system in the -900 frame. Leeham had a story on it:

http://leehamnews.com/2015/07/14/air...-range-airplane-a350-900lr-likely/
 
migair54
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:36 am

It is very interesting the idea of having the opportunity to reconfigure the plane is the demands goes soft with a very little work, that might help Airbus to sell some more planes.

Quoting ap305 (Reply 18):
Perhaps this could be a new route starter for the likes of QR who could now connect to even smaller cities in North/South America.

It could, even they could consider starting New Zealand direct flights with this planes, EZE, SCL, are also options.

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 19):
If SQ and Airbus was not convinced that it would make SIN-EWR, this order would never taken place. That particular route must have been the benchmakr for how much to increase the MTOW by Airbus.

SQ operated the route for a while, so i´m sure they have done some calculations and work with Airbus to make some adjustments, but I think with better economics of the new generation planes it will work, maybe they could even start YYZ, SFO and ORD.

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 10):
Did SQ even consider/bid for the 778?

Maybe the consider, but the current orders SQ has are for A350 and B787-1000, so in the long run the B777 will go from the fleet, so why to order new B777 if they plan to have only A350, A380 and B787, I don´t think adding only 7 B778 is a smart move, getting more A350 is much cheaper and easier.
 
BLRAviation
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:03 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
The quoted range of 8,700 nm would be with 315 passengers in two-class. SQ will probably operate the aircraft in a different configuration.
Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
What about the configuration?? all business?? I think this time we could see again 3 class with First, big Business cabin and maybe around 100 or 150 seat in economy.

When SQ first launched SQ17/SQ18 SIN-LAX and 21/22 SIN-EWR it was a two class config with a sort of PEY. 2-4-2 Y but with a half calf rest that extend to almost 90 degrees. Now that they have a proper S class (as they call it), I suspect they will launch in a 2 class J/S config.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:06 pm

They had 5 x A345 so 7 x A350ULR represents a capacity increase - for additional destinations?
 
r2rho
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:08 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
The A350−900R extended-range variant would feature the higher engine thrust, strengthened structure and undercarriage of the −1000, increase MTOW from 268t to 280t.

That's the original A359LR you are talking about, which was a -1000 shrink. As per the Airbus press release, this seems to be the A359LR "light", which is a beefed-up A359:

The A350-900ULR incorporates a number of necessary changes over the standard A350-900. These include a higher capacity fuel system within the existing fuel tanks, increasing fuel carrying capacity from 141,000 litres to 165,000 litres.

The A350-900ULR has an MTOW of 280 tonnes. The extended range capability is achieved without installation of additional fuel tanks and the aircraft can be reconfigured easily to the standard A350-900 long haul specification.


I wonder: What MTOW is the -900 gear rated for? Will the engine be the TXWB-97 from the -1000, or some uprated basic TXWB?

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 16):
The way I understand it Airbus will simply activate the A350-1000 wing tanks.
Quoting dare100em (Reply 22):
They use the additional tanks of the -1000 in the wing/undercarriage, so basically they install the -1000 fuel system in the -900 frame

As per the release, it seems the tank capacity is already there, but likely without the -1000 plumbing etc as the basic 268t MTOW cannot make meaningful use of the capacity anyway. With the increased MTOW, that tank volume can now be filled, so the -1000 fuel system is installed to make use of it.

This is a bit like the center tank on the A333. It was "always there", but unusable due to MTOW limits, so no plumbing was installed... until the latest 242t version unlocked the possibility to use that volume.
 
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enzo011
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:15 pm

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 19):
The 7 A350LR came out of the existing order, so just the extra cost for upgrading needed. Dont think 778 ever was in the race here.

They have also added 4 frames to their existing order so they now have 67 A350 on order of which 7 will be ULR capable aircraft.

Quote:
In addition, the carrier has placed an additional order for four A350-900s, taking its total firm orders for the A350 XWB Family to 67.
http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...ong-range-version-of-the-a350-900/
 
dare100em
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:23 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 26):
As per the release, it seems the tank capacity is already there, but likely without the -1000 plumbing etc as the basic 268t MTOW cannot make meaningful use of the capacity anyway. With the increased MTOW, that tank volume can now be filled, so the -1000 fuel system is installed to make use of it.

From the Leeham articel I linked:

"One other area Airbus would also be looking to change would be the tank size of A350-900. With its standard 138,000 liters it would be on the limit for a 8,600nm mission and with any cabin with less seats or lower load-factor than 100% the aircraft would be fuel limited. We would therefore assume Airbus would include the larger wing tank area from A350-1000 in a “A350-900LR” design. With its 156,000 liters it would give plenty of room for the necessary fuel for Singapore Airlines long range US missions."

So they'll install additional tanks, but these are already "planned" for in the wing - for the A350-1000. They are just not "installed" in the A350-900 because they add weigh + cost and aren't needed exept for ULH-missions. The core wing structure of the -900 and -1000 are identical, there are just some "auxiliary" parts on the -1000 to increase it's size slightly AND some structural reinforcements in the wing box (which won't be necessary on the -900LR wing).
 
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LAXintl
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:24 pm

Will be interesting to see what the future of current SQ 1-stop services to the US will be (today via DME, FRA, HKG, ICN, NRT).

In conversations with Americas management I understand much of current flying is loss making. (so is much of broader SQ longhaul network as well).

Personally I can see them ditch several current 1-stop routes and connect US gateways only via a nonstop SIN flight.
 
Aviaponcho
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:30 pm

Dare100em

If there's no dedicated plumbing needed, as for the activation of the center wing tank of the A330-300 242t, the weight penalty should be marginal and limited to watertight treatment at the bolt level.

280 t on 8 wheels ! nice !
Any clues of the Aero improvements to be included ?
 
starbucks
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:34 pm

Couldn't find it in the thread, but apparently SQ already re-announced SIN - NYC
http://twitter.com/SingaporeAir/status/653903192690937856
 
ltbewr
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:36 pm

Good, now EWR, with it long history can take back the title of the one end of the longest non-stop scheduled flight. EWR is a great connector from the NE US, for this flight, along with the big financial industry of the NYC area and SIN.
 
ap305
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:38 pm

I suspect there may be two different configs for SQ… One each for the east and west coast. The a359ulr will make lax and sfo with 300pax and bags. The east coast services will be the ones requiring a special configuration.
 
Someone83
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:41 pm

Quoting ap305 (Reply 33):
I suspect there may be two different configs for SQ… One each for the east and west coast. The a359ulr will make lax and sfo with 300pax and bags. The east coast services will be the ones requiring a special configuration.

I doubt it very much. 7 is already a rather small subfleet, so unlikely SQ will fragment it even more and add complexity and cost
 
a320fan
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:42 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 32):

Who necessarily said EWR? Could go from JFK this time   

Though been a star hub, and where it operated previously EWR makes sense.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:59 pm

We have here the typical Bregier from "We are studying it, we are not developing it" to 7 sold in a very short time. If they sold it they already have done at least part of the development.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:01 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 36):
We have here the typical Bregier from "We are studying it, we are not developing it"

It's the A330neo all over again.
 
Asiaflyer
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:07 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 34):
Quoting ap305 (Reply 33):I suspect there may be two different configs for SQ… One each for the east and west coast. The a359ulr will make lax and sfo with 300pax and bags. The east coast services will be the ones requiring a special configuration.

I doubt it very much. 7 is already a rather small subfleet, so unlikely SQ will fragment it even more and add complexity and cost

Agree. The A380 takes care of the "volume" to LAX. A350LR will cater to the premium market. I suspect the nonstop flight to be more expensive than the A380 via NRT,
 
727LOVER
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:13 pm

I was in EWR in September 2013 and I saw an SQ aircraft, presumably A345. When did SQ stop SIN-EWR? Is EWR still served with a stopover?
 
a320fan
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:16 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 39):

Believe it finished late 2013 sometime. And no EWR service, but they do serve JFK with a stop.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:22 pm

How was cargo numbers on the old EWR-SIN route?
 
Planeflyer
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:30 pm

Nice Move! Loved the LAX express flight.

As I have been saying fuel will trade in a band of 40-70$ for the next 10-15 years so it would not surprise me to see more of these flights.

Ill bet we will see boeing do something with the 787-8ulh to address even thinner routes
 
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yellowtail
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:31 pm

Could this aircraft do SIN-IAH nonstop?
 
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enilria
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:51 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Thread starter):

Hot off the press - SQ will order 7 A359ULRs, with a range of 8,700nm and will look to re-establish SIN-LAX and NYC nonstop flights. Delivery slated for 2018.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/singapore-ai...-a350

So, on another thread it states that DL is buying 11 777-200s from SQ and probably cancelling its A350 order. It seems like a massive coincidence that SQ is ordering A350s. These transactions are almost certainly connected. I wonder if these are DL delivery positions?
 
FSDan
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:02 pm

Quoting a320fan (Reply 35):
Who necessarily said EWR? Could go from JFK this time

That's what I was wondering... Unless there really is a lot more demand from the NJ side of the NYC metro area, it seems like it would make more sense for them to add a second flight to JFK rather than reopen a closed station.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 11):
still somewhat skeptical about the demand for such routes

New York and Singapore are both top-4 global financial centers, so that has to create some amount of premium demand. I'm not as sure what the drivers would be on LAX-SIN, but they are obviously both massive Pacific ports. I don't know how much air travel goes along with trade business, but I would imagine that there isn't quite as much premium demand on LAX-SIN as on NYC-SIN.
 
Aviaponcho
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:23 pm

Some leeham update right here :
leehamnews.com/2015/10/13/airbus-a350-900ulr-enables-singapore-airlines-to-reopen-singapore-new-york

Estimated pax payload : 170 PAX
 
blueflyer
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:27 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 45):
it seems like it would make more sense for them to add a second flight to JFK rather than reopen a closed station.

Despite the arm's length relationship between United and Singapore, the NY flight had a number of connecting passengers at EWR. Unless Singapore can move into Delta's or American's terminal at JFK, I think they're better served going back to EWR.
 
chiad
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Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:31 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Thread starter):
Hot off the press - SQ will order 7 A359ULRs, with a range of 8,700nm and will look to re-establish SIN-LAX and NYC nonstop flights. Delivery slated for 2018.

So the "release" of 7 A350XWB back in July was probably all a part of this.
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: SQ To Purchase First A350-900ULR For USA Nonstop

Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:31 pm

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 43):
Could this aircraft do SIN-IAH nonstop?

Good question. Should SQ still have an IAH route in '18', this "might" be the aircraft that could fill that niche.

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Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos