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jcwr56
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ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:22 pm

With little fanfare early this morning, O'Hare's newest runway and southern ATCT has officially opened. While ORD is currently in a west flow configuration, there have been no arrivals on it yet.

A formal opening ceremony will be taking place at 10:30a this morning.

I'm sure everyone will be looking towards the 20+ minute inbound taxi times to the Domestic/International Terminals.
 
airfinair
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:14 pm

Do you know how 10R/28L will be used primarily used? East flow arrivals/ departures? West flow arrivals/ departures?
ORD,MDW,IND,ARB,AMS,FRA,AUS,ANQ,DTW,DEN,PHL,PIT,MIA,GPT,SAN,PHX,LAX,SFO,OAK,SEA,LAS,SLC,SMF,ATL,MEM,BOS,MHT,JFK,EWR,LGA,NAS,SAT,MSY,DFW,AUS,IAD,GCM,RSW,PHL,CLT,
 
FriscoHeavy
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:22 pm

What is the length of the new 10R/28L?
Whatever
 
airfinair
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:25 pm

Quoting FriscoHeavy (Reply 2):
What is the length of the new 10R/28L?

7500' x 150'

I was just monitoring FR24 and noticed N887NN just taxied from the AA hangars to Taxiway W @ W2 at the west end of the runway - possibly placed there for the opening ceremony??
ORD,MDW,IND,ARB,AMS,FRA,AUS,ANQ,DTW,DEN,PHL,PIT,MIA,GPT,SAN,PHX,LAX,SFO,OAK,SEA,LAS,SLC,SMF,ATL,MEM,BOS,MHT,JFK,EWR,LGA,NAS,SAT,MSY,DFW,AUS,IAD,GCM,RSW,PHL,CLT,
 
FriscoHeavy
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:34 pm

Quoting airfinair (Reply 1):
Do you know how 10R/28L will be used primarily used? East flow arrivals/ departures? West flow arrivals/ departures?

Given that it's only 7,500 ft long, will be used almost exclusively for Arrivals, I would imagine.
Whatever
 
kbmiflyer
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:45 pm

Quoting airfinair (Reply 1):
Do you know how 10R/28L will be used primarily used? East flow arrivals/ departures? West flow arrivals/ departures?

I think the plan is primarily to use it for East Flow arrivals, similar to how the use 27-R for west flow arrivals.
 
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747classic
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:47 pm

East flow arrivals, approach with 2,5 degr. offset
See : http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollec...20Awareness/ORD-Rwy10R-28L-PRM.pdf
Westflow arrivals, visual (less than 2%)
See : http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollec...eness-Poster-2-FINAL-2015-0910.pdf
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:23 pm

Quoting kbmiflyer (Reply 5):
I think the plan is primarily to use it for East Flow arrivals, similar to how the use 27-R for west flow arrivals.

The 2.5 degree offset is brilliant. As a radar controller, this will allow for much more efficient use of airspace (shorter final) when running parallel approaches when the weather isn't too bad although 6,500 and 15 is a pretty high threshold to meet.

ORD-Rwy10R-28L-PilotAwareness-Poster-2-FINAL-2015-0910.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollec...eness-Poster-2-FINAL-2015-0910.pdf

Having previously worked tower and radar at ORD, I really like configuration 2 on the east flow as the 4L departures really help get the departures turned away for the rest of the traffic quickly without having to make such wide, sweeping turns to the west off 9R in addition to turning across the miss approach path of a potential 9L go-around. Eliminating the super long taxi from 9L will be a big plus for arrivals as well.

4L also allows the ground controller to stage aircraft in 3 separate departure ques so that the tower can pick and choose a departure sequence and more easily meet various flow restrictions and release times.

http://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1511/00166ad.pdf
 
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United787
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:36 pm

Congratulations to ORD! I can't believe that we now have 5 parallel runways!!! I can't wait for the 6th but that looks like 4 years away at the earliest, if ever. I am a little worried that the noise issue (NIMBYs) is growing with the new runway configuration and that we may never see the 6th runway.

Quoting jcwr56 (Thread starter):
I'm sure everyone will be looking towards the 20+ minute inbound taxi times to the Domestic/International Terminals.

Will it really be 20 minutes? It seems like if you land on 10R, the taxi down F or Y isn't that far...definitely a lot shorter than landing at 27R and not much different if you are going to 10L to take off. Also, given that UA and AA have a gate shortage problems (with no plans to increase gates), that time would be spent sitting in the penalty box anyway...

Quoting 747classic (Reply 6):
East flow arrivals, approach with 2,5 degr. offset
See : ORD-Rwy10R-28L-PRM.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollec...20Awareness/ORD-Rwy10R-28L-PRM.pdf
Westflow arrivals, visual (less than 2%)
See : http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollec...eness-Poster-2-FINAL-2015-0910.pdf

Does this mean 14L/32R can now close?

[Edited 2015-10-15 07:43:52]
 
kbmiflyer
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:02 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 8):


Will it really be 20 minutes? It seems like if you land on 10R, the taxi down F or Y isn't that far...definitely a lot shorter than landing at 27R and not much different if you are going to 10L to take off. Also, given that UA and AA have a gate shortage problems (with no plans to increase gates), that time would be spent sitting in the penalty box anyway...


Does this mean 14L/32R can now close?

I haven't seen much East flow when I have been at ORD, but normal west flow you have to wrap around 28R at GG before taxing in (normal procedure is right on P (Papa) left on GG (Gulf Gulf) hold short of 28R. am guessing aircraft arriving on 10C and 10R during east flow will have to wrap around 10L at AA or BB and then taxi in on L or K to get back to the terminal. Still not as long at 27R but still a long taxi.

Taxi Diagram
http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1511/00166AD.PDF

I think 14L - 32R has been de facto closed for a while now, other than maybe extreme NW winds.
 
ckfred
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:10 pm

If you land on 10C-28C, you wind up taxiing back and crossing 10L-28R at the end of the runway, behind where departing aircraft are starting their take-off rolls.

Last Friday, I was on an AA departure on 10L and saw the BA 773 land on 10C. Sure enough, he taxiied all the way back and crossed 10L at AA, while we were farther east.

That's a long taxi to exit 10C at P6, taxi back to AA, cross 10L, and then taxi to Terminal 5.
 
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United787
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:55 pm

Chicago Tribune picked up the story:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...ening-met-1016-20151015-story.html

With a new diagram that is very informative and answers a couple of my questions:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/ct-map...re-airport-20151015-htmlstory.html

But brings up one more question... Judging by this:

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1511/00166AD.PDF

the FAA still considers 14L/32R open but the Tribune says it has been closed since August. Did I see flashing red Xs on that runway when I was out there last week? So they have stopped using it but they haven't officially decommissioned it???
 
kbmiflyer
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:10 pm

The runway history is really interesting. I find it hard to believe 27R - 9L has been there for almost 7 years.

14L - 32R has not been used in any of the normal new traffic patterns since 10C-28C opened. It appears from this article in August that it is in fact closed, but the FAA diagram still shows it as active; strange.

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150820/news/150829901/
 
kbmiflyer
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:18 pm

I found this on the fly chicago website. The taxi from 10R shows taxing on Y (not F, but parallel to runway 4R instead) to P, then taxiing the length of P down to CC to cross runway 10L.

A very quick path attempt in Google Earth shows this a 4.22 miles to the closest gates (D & F) in terminal 2. WOW!

http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollec...%20East%20Flow%20Taxi%20Routes.pdf

http://www.flychicago.com/SiteCollec...Awareness-Poster-taxiway%20ops.pdf
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:54 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 11):
the FAA still considers 14L/32R open but the Tribune says it has been closed since August. Did I see flashing red Xs on that runway when I was out there last week? So they have stopped using it but they haven't officially decommissioned it???

This "open but not being used" is probably more of a political maneuver and was used by Chicago against the burbs in previous years. Runway 18/36 had not been used for years but the Aviation Dept. kept it officially "open" because it counted as a runway. Therefore, when the suburbs wanted to restrict the number of runways at ORD, Chicago could build a new one and then simply decommission 18/36 and technically not "add" any runways in doing so.

Quoting kbmiflyer (Reply 13):

I found this on the fly chicago website. The taxi from 10R shows taxing on Y (not F, but parallel to runway 4R instead) to P, then taxiing the length of P down to CC to cross runway 10L.

A very quick path attempt in Google Earth shows this a 4.22 miles to the closest gates (D & F) in terminal 2. WOW!

To the "non ATC" viewer, this might seem odd but in the interest of efficiency and safety, this is actually extremely well thought-out. 10R arrivals will not cross any other arrival runways on the way to the terminals nor will they cross any departure runways in front of departing traffic (unless a departure requires the full length). Yeah, it's a longer taxi but there's absolutely nothing stopping the aircraft during the trip so the trip will only take as long as the pilot wants to make it. The departure que will never be delayed because of crossing traffic and that's a huge advantage.

Ever been to LAX when the arrivals get stuck between the runways waiting to cross to the gate or the departure lines up on the runway and has to wait for an arrival to cross in front of them? If you had any idea how many runway incursions there have been at airports with mandated runway crossings, you would appreciate what ORD has done procedurally to eliminate these crossings.
 
a380787
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:59 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 14):

Ever been to LAX when the arrivals get stuck between the runways waiting to cross to the gate or the departure lines up on the runway and has to wait for an arrival to cross in front of them? If you had any idea how many runway incursions there have been at airports with mandated runway crossings, you would appreciate what ORD has done procedurally to eliminate these crossings.

Yea I've definitely experienced that at LAX.

My only gripe is that taxi times to/from the runways are getting painfully long at all 3 of UA's mid-con hubs : DEN IAH and now ORD. LAX is already a lot better in this regard.
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:42 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 15):
LAX is already a lot better in this regard.

Back when ORD only had 6 crossing runways, the taxi times averaged less than a 10R or 27R arrival today but back then those planes would have been in a holding pattern for an hour over Lake Michigan just for a shot a one of the two available arrival runways.

ORD and DEN can accommodate 3 arrival streams of traffic (don't know about IAH) in almost any weather condition and pump departures out like clockwork at the same time. 3 parallel arrival streams takes up a lot if airspace and a lot of acreage on the ground. LAX cannot and never will be able to do that. You've got short taxi times at DCA and LGA as well.  

Latest numbers I'm showing for departing traffic count is June 2015. ORD=379,000 and LAX=246,000. Really not in the same category. Add another 133,000 departures per month and LAX and see what happens.

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?pn=1
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:03 am

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 14):
10R arrivals will not cross any other arrival runways on the way to the terminals nor will they cross any departure runways in front of departing traffic (unless a departure requires the full length). Yeah, it's a longer taxi but there's absolutely nothing stopping the aircraft during the trip so the trip will only take as long as the pilot wants to make it.

Landings to the southwest on the far western runway at DTW do the same thing. It takes forever to taxi to the gate after landing, especially if you're using a gate at the north end of the DL World Gateway...but it's still faster than doing a long downwind leg over 16 Mile Road all the way to Troy due to ATC sequencing delays.
 
ckfred
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:22 am

Quoting kbmiflyer (Reply 13):

I found this on the fly chicago website. The taxi from 10R shows taxing on Y (not F, but parallel to runway 4R instead) to P, then taxiing the length of P down to CC to cross runway 10L.

A very quick path attempt in Google Earth shows this a 4.22 miles to the closest gates (D & F) in terminal 2. WOW!

What's wrong with just lining up arriving aircraft along 10L-28R, waiting for a gap in the line of departures, and then sending the arriving aircraft across 10L-28R en masse?

I understand that with the ability to land 3 aircraft simultaneously, the stacking up of aircraft over the Lake or out to the west is greatly reduced. I've been on flights where the approach to 27L or 27R started on the eastern shore of Lake Michigan, near Benton Harbor. But, when a plane is horribly late, the extra time taxiing just adds to the misery.
 
fiddlerkrt
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:41 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 11):
the FAA still considers 14L/32R open but the Tribune says it has been closed since August. Did I see flashing red Xs on that runway when I was out there last week? So they have stopped using it but they haven't officially decommissioned it???
Quoting kbmiflyer (Reply 12):
14L - 32R has not been used in any of the normal new traffic patterns since 10C-28C opened. It appears from this article in August that it is in fact closed, but the FAA diagram still shows it as active; strange.


I flew through ORD twice last week and it looked like there were red X's blocking the runway. We ended up taking off on 14R which I thought was a bit strange.

[Edited 2015-10-15 17:45:14]
 
covert
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:19 am

I must say that it's amazing that they were able to convert from the hodgepodge maze of legacy aligned runways to a modern primarily parallel system. ORD probably was the single most complex configuration out there, and they had a lot of limitations such as encroachment of land and busy traffic to make this challenging. Hats off to the planners.

This is a posting that I found on another site from a guy named DaveKilo. Pretty concise history of the runways at ORD. I apologize for the formatting.

Quote:

14R/32L
This was the first runway built following the City of Chicago's acquisition of the airport, and the first to be built with jet aircraft in mind. Three of the four original 1943 runways were later modified for jet use. Runway 14R-32L was part of a 1950s master plan that envisioned six tangential, non-intersecting runways arranged in 3 sets of parallels. With its commissioning, O'Hare possessed parallel runways with enough lateral separation to allow the airport to become one of the first to accommodate simultaneous instrument approaches in low visibility. The runway was originally 8,000' in length and a generous 200' wide (all other ORD runways are presently 150' wide). By 1958 it was extended to 8,800', by 1962 to 11,600' and by 1991 to its present length of 13,000'. This very long length allows heavy widebody jets to depart on hot summer days with full loads. It was the undisputed "main runway" until the 1969 construction of what is now Runway 10-28. As east-west operations have increased and new runways are gradually being built at ORD in that orientation, 14R-32L is gradually losing its relative imporatnace, though in 2009 it still serves an important role, primarily as a departure facility in "West" airfield operations. As construction of new Runway 10C-28C progresses, it is planned that 14R-32L will be shortened to its 1958-1962 length of 8,800', eliminating its intersections with any other runway and preserving its utility for northwest departures and occasional southeast landings. It is slated for eventual decommissioning when all future runways and a west terminal complex are complete, although doing so will reduce airfield capacity in strong crosswind situations.
May 6, 2010: Runway 14R-32L was permanently shortened to 9,685' in length. It no longer intersects Runway 10-28, as its southeast end is now at Taxiway "M". This will allow continued construction of new Runway 10C-28R. The Runway 32L direction is now permanently closed to landings. 32L is for takeoff only, and 14R can still be used for both takeoff and landing. The ILS approach and associated equipment for Runway 32L is being decommissioned.


14L/32R
This is one of the original four runways of the 1943-built Orchard Place airfield, which was a manufacturing facility for WWII transports. The other three original strips are now known as 4L-22R and 9R-27L and Taxiway GG, the former Runway 18-36 that was decommissioned in 2003. Built as Runway 14-32, it originally was about 5,700' in length, by the late 1950s it was extended to about 7,800', and by the mid-1960s it achieved its current length of 10,003' (+/- 3'). When Runway 14R-32L opened in 1955, this runway became 14L-32R. The runway has gradually decreased in operational importance, but it still has a role in certain wind and visibility conditions. When new Runway 10C-28C opens in 2011, Runway 14L-32R is expected to be closed. However, in the 1950s and 1960s, this runway and its parallel sibling 14R-32R were by far the two most important ones, handling a majority of O'Hare's traffic. Together, they were among the very first in the world to be certified for simultaneous parallel instrument approaches in very low visibility. Landings in the northwest (32R) direction are now rare.
With the opening of new Runway 10R-28L in October 2015, historic Runway 14L-32R, once the airport's second most important runway, is now permanently closed, after 72 years of stalwart service.

9L/27R
Opened in November, 2008. Measures 7500' x 150'. Equipped with Category III Instrument Landing Systems (ILS) and ALSF2 approach light systems on both ends.
This is the first of four entirely new east-west runways planned for O'Hare. From 1960 until this runway was opened in 2008, whenever visibility or clouds were low, the airport could only accommodate simultaneous landings on two runways. Now aircraft can arrive in triple parallel on 27L/27R/28 or, more rarely, on 10/9L/9R. Departures can be performed on tangent cross runways. The next runway to open, in 2011, will be new 10C-28C just south of existing 10-28. Runways 14L-32R and 14R-32L, the 1960s backbone of the airfield, are planned for eventual decommissioning.


9R/27L
This is one of the original four runways of the 1943-built Orchard Place airfield, which was a manufacturing facility for WWII transports. The other three original strips are now known as 14L-32R and 4L-22R and Taxiway GG, the former Runway 18-36 that was decommissioned in 2003. Built as Runway 9-27, it originally was about 5,500' in length. In the 1960s it was extended to 7,416', then in the early 1990s to its present length of 7,967'. When the runway now known as 10-28 opened in 1969, this runway became 9L-27R. When the new runway 9L-27R was being built in 2007, this runway became 9R-27L. A particular difficulty with this otherwise excellent runway is its proximity to the central terminal core. There is only room for a single parallel taxiway between the runway and Terminal 1, resulting in the most significant ground movement bottleneck on the airfield. Long term plans call for the possible relocation of this runway at least 750' north to alleviate the problem, and future Runway 9C-27C will be built far enough north to allow for the relocation of 9R-27L.

10/28
A primary runway of O'Hare International Airport. Now measures 13,000' x 150', the longest at this airport and one of the longest commercial runways in the USA. Equipped with Category III Instrument Landing Systems (ILS) and ALSF2 approach lights at both ends. Until August, 2007, it was designated Runway 9R-27L. It is to be finally redesignated Runway 10L-28R when additional east-west runways are completed in the south quadrant. This is now indisputably the single most important runway at O'Hare. It was originally built in 1969 at a length of 10,141' and was extended to its present length in September, 2007.

10L/28R
Constructed in 1968, it was designated Runway 9R-27L until 2007-07-05, at which time it became Runway 10-28. In 2013, it was re-designated Runway 10L-28R. Originally 10,000' x 150', it was slightly extended to 10,141' in the 1970s. In 2011, it was extended to 13,000', making it the longest runway in the midwest. The runway has Category III Instrument Landing System on both ends, allowing certain aircraft to land in near-zero visibility.
On 1972-12-20, a North Central Airlines DC-9 taking off eastbound on this runway in fog conditions collided with a Delta Convair 880 that was crossing the runway, resulting in 10 fatalities.

10C/28C
Opened on October 17, 2013, this runway completed O'Hare Modernization Program''s Phase II, making for a total of 8 runways at the airport. It occupies the sites of the former Lake O'Hare man-made retention basin and former United and Fed Ex cargo facilities -- all relocated. The runway is 10,801' x 200'. Along with its associated taxiways, it has weight-bearing capacity and dimensions to fully meet all standards for "Design Group VI" aircraft such as the Airbus A380. Both ends are equipped with Category III Instrument Landing System, facilitating landings in near-zero visibility.

4L/22R
This is one of the original four runways of the 1943-built Orchard Place airfield, which was a manufacturing facility for WWII transports. The other three original strips are now known as 14L-32R and 9R-27L and Taxiway GG, the former Runway 18-36 that was decommissioned in 2003. Built as Runway 4-22, it originally was about 5,500' in length, and by the mid-1960s it was extended to its present length of 7,500'. When Runway 4R-22L opened in 1971, this runway became 4L-22R. The runway is the most mono-directional of all at O'Hare. Takeoffs are very common in the northeast (4L) direction, and landings are equally routine in the southwest (22R) direction. You will only see 22R departures during very strong southwest winds, and 4L landings are the most rare operation.
With the opening of three new parallel east-west runways in 2008, 2013 and 2015, Runway 4L-22R is now only rarely used, but it is very useful during strong northerly or southerly winds.

4R/22L
A crosswind runway of O'Hare International Airport, completed in 1971. It measures 8075' x 150'. Since it does not intersect any other runway, it is very commonly used for 4R landings or for 22L takeoffs. This is the only O'Hare runway that has Engineered Materials Arresting Systems (EMAS), and these are installed at both ends. Instrument Landing Systems (ILS) and Approach Light Systems (ALS) serve both ends.
In 2007, the first Airbus A380 to land at O'Hare arrived on Runway 4R.


Runway 10R/28L Commission Date: October 15, 2015.
This new 7,500' x 150' runway is part of the O'Hare Modernization Program (OMP). In addition to the runway, the project included a new South Airport Traffic Control Tower with a commission date of October 15, 2015.


none
 
midway7
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:00 am

How frequently were 32L arrivals used. I flew it once on a UA 727-100 in 1986. I remember the approach was low over MDW, which was not too busy back then. Seems in the 1990's, they really stopped using 32L for arrivals.

I do recall the one and only time I saw 4L arrivals. It was in 1996 with real strong winds from the NE. Picked someone up at the airport and watched the arrivals from the C concourse. Everything was late that day in clear conditions. Definitely not an optimal operations arrangement.

Midway 7
 
FSDan
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:31 pm

I didn't realize 32L was still in use. In a west pattern couldn't that cause some concern with go-arounds from 27L or 27R? Especially 32L/27R looks quite similar to the situation at MSP that the FAA recently disallowed.
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jetblastdubai
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:13 pm

Quoting midway7 (Reply 21):
How frequently were 32L arrivals used

32L used to be a very popular arrival runway but over the years several things changed that made it's use less practical.

One of the more efficient configurations we used was landing on 32L and 27R (the current 27L). We could run converging ILS approaches down to 700' and 2 miles which meant we could turn on to the localizer 3 miles from the approach gate (approx 8-10 miles from the runway) and never have to worry about parallel traffic. Running parallel/simultaneous approaches without being able to rely on visual separation required A/C to be established on the localizer at least 16 miles out so the downwind was usually 20-25 miles.

When arrival demand required more than 2 arrival runways, we were able to put non-heavy A/C on 27L (the current 28R) with a LAHSO (land and hold short) as long as there was no tailwind and the runway was clear and dry.

On the clear days, we could run parallel visual approaches to 27L and 27R (the current 28R and 27L) and then when arrival demand exceeded a 2-runway operations, we could throw a few arrivals on 32L. 32L arrivals were not effected by MDW at all although MDW departures were assigned 2,000' instead of 3,000'.

When 32L was lengthened to 13,000 the arrival spacing had to be increased because aircraft were touching down much farther south than before and were therefore rolling through 27L (the current 28R) much slower and it became very difficult to depart 27L (28R) as the gap became smaller. This made landings on 32L much less efficient.
 
ODwyerPW
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:07 pm

Folks,

Thanks for sharing so much of your insights with us. I had no idea ORD had about 7 operational runways at any given time. Incredible.

379,000 departures a month.... which also means 379,000 arrivals as well. That's an insane amount of movement. Wow!

Peter
learning never stops.
 
727LOVER
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:11 pm

Quoting ODwyerPW (Reply 24):
Thanks for sharing so much of your insights with us. I had no idea ORD had about 7 operational runways at any given time. Incredible.

Isn't it 9?

IIRC, 14L-32R was barely used before the last 3 runways opened. 32R is where AA191 departed, correct?

Next time I visit ORD, it's going to be REALLY confusing !   
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:22 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 25):
Isn't it 9?

All 9 can't be used at the same time.

What will be nice is when snow removal season starts, ORD will be able to completely close 1 or 2 runways at a time for a thorough snow removal operation and not necessarily impact the overall operation. Same advantage if a runway is closed by a report of FOD that would otherwise require reducing the arrival rate significantly until the FOD is removed.
 
727LOVER
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:47 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 26):
All 9 can't be used at the same time.

Sorry, I misread what had been said. I meant a total of 9.

So what's to become of 14L-32R, 14R-32L, 4L-22R, & 4R-22L ?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
kbmiflyer
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 27):
So what's to become of 14L-32R, 14R-32L, 4L-22R, & 4R-22L ?

Eventually, the 14's go away, but the 4's stay. There is some talk now about closing 4R after all of the parallels are in place.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/ct-map...re-airport-20151015-htmlstory.html
 
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william
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:02 pm

So what happens to the closed runways? Torn up or turned into taxiways to nowhere?
 
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jsnww81
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:25 am

Congrats to ORD. Three new runways at a US airport in the space of a single decade is nothing short of miraculous. When the modernization plan was first announced, I rolled my eyes and assumed it would never leave paper (like LHR's third runway). I underestimated Chicago's ability to get things done when the desire is really there. It's just a shame the airfield became more efficient just in time for the terminals to run out of gates...

Now we just need the new middle runway to open on the north side - hopefully the political will is still there.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 23):
32L used to be a very popular arrival runway but over the years several things changed that made it's use less practical.

I landed on 32L twice in 15 years of living in Chicago, both times really late at night. I always assumed it was for noise abatement purposes after midnight or something. I have seen photos of daytime arrivals on 32L from the 1960s and 1970s, though.

I will miss landing on 4R, which for years and years seemed to be one of the most popular approaches. The low pass over the Irving Park railyard just before touchdown was always fun - and sometimes it was REALLY low!

Have the runway reconfigurations changed arrivals patterns at Midway? It's been years since I flew in there. Landings on 13C were always exceedingly rare - do they happen more frequently now?
 
Chisky16
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:35 am

I don't remember the last time I've seen arrivals on 13C. In fact, I've recently seen that arrivals on 31C happen less commonly than they used to. It looks like 22L/4R is used most often for arrivals, while 4R also sees takeoffs. 31C seems to be the primary takeoff runway for the field; 13C is used for takeoffs during windy conditions.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 30):
Have the runway reconfigurations changed arrivals patterns at Midway? It's been years since I flew in there. Landings on 13C were always exceedingly rare - do they happen more frequently now?
Using common knowledge to save the day!
 
Carpethead
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:01 am

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 23):
On the clear days, we could run parallel visual approaches to 27L and 27R

Also didn't they do LAHSO approaches on 22R for the thrid runway arrival? I remember a few arrivals on that runway even in an aircraft large as a 757.
I was surprised that they would do it on such a large aircraft, but back then I didn't realize the performance of the 757.

For south flows, they often ran arrivals on 14R, 22R and LAHSO 14L (all props back when there were many ATRs and ATPs - not sure if I ever saw a BAe146 onto that runway).
Departures would be on 9L, 27L & 22L. Talk about aircraft coming and going in all directions!

The good ole days of the 1980s and 1990s.
 
elbandgeek
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:39 am

Quoting Chisky16 (Reply 31):
I don't remember the last time I've seen arrivals on 13C.

I landed on 13C on a flight back in December and once a few years ago as well. I was surprised both times because I thought they never used it.
 
midway7
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:28 am

I grew up near MDW and can say for sure they use 13C for arrivals more now than they ever did in the 1980's and 1990's.

Anyone fly the new approach to 22L? I see the approach plate for it on flightaware. This is the approach in from the lake and you parallel I55 from about 22nd street in. Is everyone using this now? Has this replaced the old 31C localizer, circle to 22L at the outer marker. I think there is also a new GPS type approach (sorry I am old school) that takes aircraft approaching from the SW on a downwind around 95th and Cicero, then circle in. I am just not up there anymore to be able to see this.

Midway 7
 
N1120A
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:05 pm

Quoting jcwr56 (Thread starter):

I'm sure everyone will be looking towards the 20+ minute inbound taxi times to the Domestic/International Terminals.

Another Elkgroverbaan isn't ideal, but ORD's infamous delays are being reduced substantially.

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 30):
It's just a shame the airfield became more efficient just in time for the terminals to run out of gates...

That can be remedied  
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phatfarmlines
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:55 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 27):
Sorry, I misread what had been said. I meant a total of 9.

Does ORD now have the most number of runways (not counting # of operational runways at any one time) in an airport in modern times?
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:20 pm

There don't seem to be many widebody landings on 27R - is there a reason for this? The largest aircraft I've seen land on it is a 752.
 
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Acey
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:04 am

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 37):
is there a reason for this?

...because it's 7,500 feet long, perhaps? There is likely sufficient non-heavy traffic that can be delegated for 27R allowing widebodies to land with a bit more of a buffer on one of the longer runways.
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airstatdfw
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Sun Oct 18, 2015 2:50 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 37):

I have seen B747s and B777s land on 27R/9L, especially when they want to go to the hanger.
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:35 pm

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 30):

The mayor of Chicago is very adept at getting what he wants- see Bulldozing Miegs Field.

Quoting midway7 (Reply 34):

Yep, flown 22L approach- got to remeber to make the turn at the final approach fix. Most GPS approaches have a 5 mile straight in leg before the final approach fix.
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United787
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:58 pm

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 40):
The mayor of Chicago is very adept at getting what he wants- see Bulldozing Miegs Field.

That Mayor (Richard M. Daley) is now retired but he can (and should) take credit for the ORD runway reconfiguration. I don't think our new mayor (Rahmbo) has quite the power King Daley did.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:09 pm

Quoting midway7 (Reply 34):
Anyone fly the new approach to 22L? I see the approach plate for it on flightaware. This is the approach in from the lake and you parallel I55 from about 22nd street in. Is everyone using this now?

I can't speak for everyone, but that seems to be the only way WN goes in to 22L, so it's at least the vast majority of the operations. The skyline views out the starboard windows are pretty good.
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mt99
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RE: ORD: Runway 10R/28L Officially Open

Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:27 pm

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 30):
I underestimated Chicago's ability to get things done when the desire is really there.
Quoting United787 (Reply 41):
That Mayor (Richard M. Daley) is now retired but he can (and should) take credit for the ORD runway reconfiguration. I don't think our new mayor (Rahmbo) has quite the power King Daley did.

Thats how the game is played in Chicago. Daley and Rahm may be hard to swallow, but ultimately they move the city forward.

Chuy Garcia would not have been able to accomplish much.
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