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AA777223
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UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:56 pm

I am puzzled by how UA uses their GUM hub. There are some really cool destinations served by them, that aren't served by any other US carrier, and I would love to visit them. However, they make using the hub very difficult for US passengers, as it is only served through HNL.

For example, if I wanted to go to Saipan, I would have to fly IAH-HNL-GUM-SPN, and I live in a hub city! If I lived elsewhere in the country, there'd be at least one more stop, maybe two on top of that. Add to that, all the flights to hawaii are served on UA's subfleet of 777s that are configured...less comfortably than their other overseas aircraft, to put it politely. Why has UA never offered direct flights from mainland US hubs to GUM like SFO, LAX, IAH or ORD? With a dedicated 737 fleet there serving over 15 destinations. They also serve some very cool secondary Japanese locations that I would love to get to, without flying through NRT or KIX like Fukuoka, Sapporo and Sendai. I have just always assumed that could get a lot more out of their dedicated, unique services out of GUM if they allowed people to cut out the HNL stop, and even better if they offered it on an aircraft with a true int'l config. Eight hours without power or seatback entertainment or in a recliner J seat is brutal. Doing it twice to get to GUM through HNL really sucks.

Please let me know your thoughts.
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LAXintl
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:02 pm

Remember Guam started as a franchise operation for the Micronesian governments. The routes very much still serve this need to connect communities and bring in visitors from key p2p markets.

The flying such as the secondary Japan markets are meant solely for local tourism and are standalone flights, not designed to flow people across the UA network to the mainland.
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codc10
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:04 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Thread starter):
Eight hours without power

FWIW, all but one 77H have in-seat power.
 
chrisp390
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:10 pm

Very good question, I always thought the same. They could serve a huge number of secondary Chinese cities, Vietnam, Indonesia, Bangladesh, maybe Busan even too all from Guam on 737's. They could offer 1 stop flights from all their hubs in the U.S. To these destinations then via Guam. Then they wouldn't need to worry about Japanese currency issues they had complained about with the Narita hub too.
 
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:25 pm

I am not sure that there is a nascent large market for tourists from Bangladesh to Guam. maybe from India, but unlikely from Bangladesh.
 
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:42 pm

It's all about demand and the cost of flying n/s from a mainland hub to GUM. If (and its a big if) such service started, it would likely be less than daily on a 787 from SFO which is their main Pacific base.

Per gcmap, its 5,812 statute miles from SFO which is about 500 miles longer than the SFO-LHR sector. That would put it somewhere around 9.5 hrs east bound and likely close to 11 west bound depending on winds. Is there a big enough market for onward connections in GUM to justify such a flight? I sincerely doubt it. Many of the Japanese destinations mentioned by the OP are serviced by joint venture partner NH which has outstanding service out of LAX, SFO and IAH. From there you can connect via NH to cities throughout Asia, all while earning miles on UA.

My belief is that UA makes good money on their HNL to GUM run via the contracts previously mentioned along with air cargo. They also make good money on their island hopper route from HNL to GUM via the various islands they fly to along the way.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:42 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Remember Guam started as a franchise operation for the Micronesian governments. The routes very much still serve this need to connect communities and bring in visitors from key p2p markets.

The flying such as the secondary Japan markets are meant solely for local tourism and are standalone flights, not designed to flow people across the UA network to the mainland.

Exactly. GUM as any sort of transfer hub operation or large-scale expansion beyond its current role is extremely unlikely.
 
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gdg9
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:51 pm

I've been to Guam twice (2010-11), both times I saw mostly Japanese and Korean tourists. I understand more Chinese are coming now too.
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catiii
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:57 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Thread starter):
owever, they make using the hub very difficult for US passengers, as it is only served through HNL.

And NRT and PVG...last time I went I connected via NRT from ORD.
 
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:00 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 8):
And NRT and PVG...last time I went I connected via NRT from ORD.

And HKG, though that is longer.
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adamblang
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:03 pm

I might be using DOT numbers incorrectly but 1/3 of traffic from Guam headed toward the 50 U.S. states (so excluding other Pacific U.S. territory traffic) is going to Hawai‘i. No need for mainland U.S. flights there.

Given United fills a 344 seat 777-200 every day, call that 114 people staying in the Pacific region.

That leaves 230 people going to the mainland. There isn't a plane small enough with enough range to have multiple flights to any variety of hubs so all the traffic must go to a single hub. That means a single 767-300 or 767-400 needs to go GUM-SFO. If you're in any market that isn't served by United at SFO, you still have to double connect so no real benefit there. Not a real big difference between a MKE-ORD-SFO-GUM vs. MKE-ORD-HNL-GUM or an MIA-IAH-SFO-GUM vs. MIA-IAH-HNL-GUM.

In the mean time, GUM-HNL is outside the non-stop range of 737 so at least a 757-200 needs to fly the route. That'll be half full if you're putting 114 people on it (because you've siphoned off all the mainland traffic on that new flight).

I *think* if you have nonstop GUM-mainland service, you kill the business case for nonstop GUM-HNL service.
 
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:08 pm

Quoting adamblang (Reply 10):

I might be using DOT numbers incorrectly but 1/3 of traffic from Guam headed toward the 50 U.S. states (so excluding other Pacific U.S. territory traffic) is going to Hawai‘i. No need for mainland U.S. flights there.

There has been various talk over the years that a non-stop to LAX would be forthcoming, because of the amount of traffic.
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TC957
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:25 pm

I have no idea if UA have contracts with the USAF to fly personnel in & out of GUM for the Anderson Air Base there, but should they have one I can see a direct US mainland service being viable, but otherwise not. I've been there twice, not many Brits get to go there, most Americans I spoke to were connected with the USAF in some form or another.
As has been pointed out, GUM is a long way from LAX / SFO and Americans can get their dose of winter sun much nearer home.
 
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AA777223
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:26 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 8):
And NRT and PVG...last time I went I connected via NRT from ORD.
Quoting catiii (Reply 8):
And HKG, though that is longer.

These are not US United hubs, therefore obviating them from this discussion.

I guess I just find it hard to believe that there aren't enough people travelling to GUM or any of it's 17 spokes (by my count) to justify a, say, 788 or 763 flying there daily or 4-5 weekly from SFO or LAX. I guess I also assumed a potential detractor was the double hop itself. Also, as I mentioned in my original post, the product they fly there is so subpar, compared to the rest of their long haul fleet, it really is unattractive.

You all have certainly made some very valid points, and I wouldn't dispute you on them. I would just think this would be a route made for the 788, that might have some potential. I do enjoy the discussion, regardless!
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:28 pm

Quoting adamblang (Reply 10):
I *think* if you have nonstop GUM-mainland service, you kill the business case for nonstop GUM-HNL service.

This is partially true. GUM-HNL was a goldmine at CO, less so now (more pax than ever connect to mainland over NRT, and lots on DL), but HNL still has large cargo demand that calls for the belly of a 777. Still, there is a lot of local traffic between Micronesia and HNL.
 
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:36 pm

bed and a stop

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 13):
I would just think this would be a route made for the 788, that might have some potential. I do enjoy the discussion, regardless

A 788 would not be a horrible idea and maybe in the future when UA has more 787s but right now I think they have better choices than Mainland to GUM to use their 787s on.

It's actually not a bad product onboard either...
WiFi
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and those J class seats are the same ones that people have crossed oceans in since the 90s...

As they start to convert the rest of the 772 fleet from IPTE to 2 class domestic I would not be shocked to see them redo these aircraft..
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:37 pm

United is not going to make any money flying transit passengers from the lower 48 through Guam. For flights to Japan or other countries, it is far more cost effective to fly a Korean or Japanese airline. UA can't compete on cost. The purpose of the Guam hub is to cover the local demand from Guam and also the tourist demand for its beaches.

There is a small chance of a nonstop flight from SFO or LAX, but to be honest, there is not a reason. United has the market locked up for the lower 48. The local demand to HNL is higher than either LAX or SFO. United has a decent number of connection opportunities out of HNL. If you want to go to Guam or Saipan, you are stuck on UA if you don't detour through Japan on delta, so there is not much need for a nonstop to the lower 48.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 12):

I have no idea if UA have contracts with the USAF to fly personnel in & out of GUM for the Anderson Air Base there, but should they have one I can see a direct US mainland service being viable, but otherwise not. I've been there twice, not many Brits get to go there, most Americans I spoke to were connected with the USAF in some form or another.
As has been pointed out, GUM is a long way from LAX / SFO and Americans can get their dose of winter sun much nearer home.


Atlas Air and Omni have the military contracts. They fly 767s to SEA to cover most of the military charter work. I don't think United carries many charter passengers, but many of those on leave fly UA through HNL.
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chrisp390
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:39 pm

I was just looking and flying to Jakarta from LAX is almost the same distance transiting through GUM as NRT. UA could then fly a much more economical and right sized 737 on Guam - Jakarta and be able to serve it.
 
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AA777223
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:42 pm

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 17):

I was just looking and flying to Jakarta from LAX is almost the same distance transiting through GUM as NRT. UA could then fly a much more economical and right sized 737 on Guam - Jakarta and be able to serve it.

Just booked that same flight myself. I pretty much noticed the same thing, haha.
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:47 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Thread starter):
However, they make using the hub very difficult for US passengers, as it is only served through HNL.

You can get to GUM through other places as well, e.g. NRT, which is also a UA hub btw.

Quoting AA777223 (Thread starter):
Add to that, all the flights to hawaii are served on UA's subfleet of 777s that are configured...less comfortably than their other overseas aircraft, to put it politely

Add to that, Hawai'i 772s are nicer than the 738s they also run, to put it politely. UA doesn't even have int'l products on every int'l route, let alone domestically. For UA, even moving to an int'l 767 was a big deal in LIM, as was a flat bed 752 for BOG.

Quoting AA777223 (Thread starter):
Eight hours without power or seatback entertainment or in a recliner J seat is brutal

Try a CM 738 from LAX-PTY-SCL   - At least the 777s have shorter bathroom lines.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 5):
My belief is that UA makes good money on their HNL to GUM run via the contracts previously mentioned along with air cargo. They also make good money on their island hopper route from HNL to GUM via the various islands they fly to along the way.

   Air cargo is king in those parts of the world.

Quoting adamblang (Reply 10):
Given United fills a 344 seat 777-200 every day, call that 114 people staying in the Pacific region.

That leaves 230 people going to the mainland. There isn't a plane small enough with enough range to have multiple flights to any variety of hubs so all the traffic must go to a single hub. That means a single 767-300 or 767-400 needs to go GUM-SFO. If you're in any market that isn't served by United at SFO, you still have to double connect so no real benefit there.

Could have sent a 788/9 between LAX / SFO and GUM, 219-252 seats. Problem is you can't *sell* the 36-48 seats up front and/or haul as much cargo, hence the Hawai'i 772s and the 737s from Asia.
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LAXintl
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:01 pm

Quoting adamblang (Reply 10):
I might be using DOT numbers incorrectly but 1/3 of traffic from Guam headed toward the 50 U.S. states (so excluding other Pacific U.S. territory traffic) is going to Hawai‘i. No need for mainland U.S. flights there.

Last I saw the largest O&D market from the mainland was LAX, but even that barely fills a RJ.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 16):
United is not going to make any money flying transit passengers from the lower 48 through Guam. For flights to Japan or other countries, it is far more cost effective to fly a Korean or Japanese airline. UA can't compete on cost. The purpose of the Guam hub is to cover the local demand from Guam and also the tourist demand for its beaches.

  

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 17):
UA could then fly a much more economical and right sized 737 on Guam - Jakarta and be able to serve it.

How many Indonesians are looking for a beach vacation in Guam?

Unless the flight can primarily support local O&D it wont happen. Even some such markets like ICN-GUM UA has found it cant compete against local carriers

Quoting ua900 (Reply 19):
You can get to GUM through other places as well, e.g. NRT, which is also a UA hub btw.

Indeed XXX-NRT-GUM is an easy way to get there as well.

Quoting ua900 (Reply 19):
Could have sent a 788/9 between LAX / SFO and GUM, 219-252 seats. Problem is you can't *sell* the 36-48 seats up front and/or haul as much cargo, hence the Hawai'i 772s and the 737s from Asia.

Correct. There is a tiny amount of premium demand.
As mentioned previously the distance from West Coast to GUM is 500 odd miles longer than LHR but with a totally different client revenue profile. Hardly ideal use for a premium ship like 787.
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Rdh3e
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:18 pm

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 17):
UA could then fly a much more economical and right sized 737 on Guam - Jakarta and be able to serve it.
Quoting AA777223 (Reply 18):
Just booked that same flight myself. I pretty much noticed the same thing, haha.

Much more efficient for UA to fly you to NRT and NH fly you the rest of the way which is the way it is now. It's a wonderful UA 789 LAX-NRT, then a great NH 788 NRT-CGK. You can't get a much better trip than that.
 
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AA777223
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:33 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 21):
Much more efficient for UA to fly you to NRT and NH fly you the rest of the way which is the way it is now. It's a wonderful UA 789 LAX-NRT, then a great NH 788 NRT-CGK. You can't get a much better trip than that.

Yeah, that's actually what I did book. I was just saying that I notcied the same thing Chrisp390 noticed about the distance between CGK and GUM/NRT. I am flying from IAH, so it's 772 to NRT, but the experience is pretty similar.

Quoting ua900 (Reply 19):
Add to that, Hawai'i 772s are nicer than the 738s they also run, to put it politely. UA doesn't even have int'l products on every int'l route, let alone domestically. For UA, even moving to an int'l 767 was a big deal in LIM, as was a flat bed 752 for BOG.

The 738s are run strictly from the west coast, and the onboard product is fairly similar, actually.

Of course UA doesn't have lie flats on EVERY international destination - some of those flights are only a couple of hours long. International doesn't have to mean far. Even though HNL is technically domestic, it's distance makes it comparable to an intercontinental flight in duration. The flights to HNL from anywhere except LAX and SFO are unquestionably the longest in the system without lie flat J.





[Edited 2015-10-15 12:37:28]
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Rdh3e
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:37 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 22):
The flights to HNL from anywhere except LAX and SFO are unquestionably the longest in the system without lie flat J.

Yep, IIRC ORD-HNL is the longest at 9 hours 3 minutes (today).
 
catiii
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:48 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 13):
These are not US United hubs, therefore obviating them from this discussion.

Ok, but that's not what you said originally. You said:

Quoting AA777223 (Thread starter):
they make using the hub very difficult for US passengers, as it is only served through HNL.

If you want to now say they only serve it from one US city, that's fine. But the fact is they serve it from other cities that provide the same one top service to GUM for the US customer.

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 22):
The flights to HNL from anywhere except LAX and SFO are unquestionably the longest in the system without lie flat J.

Not exactly, EWR-HNL is a lie flat 764. I believe the seasonal IAD-HNL in the past has also flown lie flat.

[Edited 2015-10-15 13:52:40]
 
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:51 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Thread starter):
Eight hours without power or seatback entertainment or in a recliner J seat is brutal.

I flew it in December when it was no power...it was actually not bad. Knowing this before hand I bought one of those battery usb ports. I was cool. The personal device content wasn't bad - the wifi was fine as well. Its a long flight either way you slice it but its not a bad Y product.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):

Quoting adamblang (Reply 10):

I might be using DOT numbers incorrectly but 1/3 of traffic from Guam headed toward the 50 U.S. states (so excluding other Pacific U.S. territory traffic) is going to Hawai‘i. No need for mainland U.S. flights there.

There has been various talk over the years that a non-stop to LAX would be forthcoming, because of the amount of traffic.

As has been said the GUM demand is Korea/Japan/China/ and military mainly. I think its served via HNL and NRT quite well.
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maxamuus
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:08 pm

I actually had a chance to pull Greg Brenneman aside at a employee meeting many moons ago and asked about CMI. I asked at the time why didn't CO put in a non-stop LAX-GUM.

He explained that CMI makes money PURELY off Japanese vacation traffic. He said they had crunched the numbers and if they added a LAXGUM flight it would lose money, and it would cause LAX-HNL and HNL-GUM to loose money so that is why CMI is the way it is. Anyone who flies thru it that is a North American is just gravy, but its true bread and butter is soley Japan and their vacation markets.

Its been a long time ago, but they way he explained it made perfect sense and it was a informed explanation so i know they had looked into it.
 
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RE: UA And Guam

Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:37 pm

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 7):
I've been to Guam twice (2010-11), both times I saw mostly Japanese and Korean tourists. I understand more Chinese are coming now too.

I saw lots of Russians in Saipan. I do not see GUM even set up like ANC years ago, still no transit areas, so it makes it less desirable to transit pax.

I was in HNL once and saw a couple checking in for HNL-HKG via GUM on United.
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ua900
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:05 am

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 22):
The 738s are run strictly from the west coast, and the onboard product is fairly similar, actually.

China and Japan have UA 737s, including 738s. Some of these don't even feature economy plus, apart from the exit row and the bulkhead. Up front, the Hawai'i birds have the old UA int'l C cabin seats, which recline a lot further than your standard 737 F seat and feature nice little extras like foot rests that UA got rid of years ago, except for some crew rest seats.

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 22):
The flights to HNL from anywhere except LAX and SFO are unquestionably the longest in the system without lie flat J.

Yup, that's why these birds got the old int'l C seats as a compromise. At least it's not 7 hrs in a 738 going from BOS to SFO because UA got rid of 752s.

Quoting malaysia (Reply 27):
I was in HNL once and saw a couple checking in for HNL-HKG via GUM on United.

Should have gone through NRT  
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catiii
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:48 am

Quoting ua900 (Reply 28):

In favor of 753s, and PS 752s coming online. And anyways, what's the big deal? The 737 and 757 came out of the same jig with the same fuselage diameter.
 
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:02 am

Quoting catiii (Reply 29):
In favor of 753s, and PS 752s coming online. And anyways, what's the big deal? The 737 and 757 came out of the same jig with the same fuselage diameter.

true...but the cabin height is different fwiw
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:03 am

The only carrier that's ever operated nonstop from the U.S. mainland to GUM was Braniff and, like all their short-lived transpacific services, it was a failure. Many of the 747SP flights were almost empty. GUM was a stop to HKG. Without the ability to serve Japan, no U.S. carrier has ever been successful on transpacific routes. TWA had the same problem during their 5 years of transpacific (and around the world) service 1969-74.

Braniff June 1980 route map. All the Asian routes were gone a few months later, and of course Braniff itself was gone by 1982.
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:15 am

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 26):

and i believe if it comes to fruition, 2-4x per week, it would still be out of LAX, rather than SFO. The big thing now is that the more proper a/c is available. Rather than a 764 or 772, the 787 possibly makes it a more feasible opportunity.
 
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:17 am

Quoting ua900 (Reply 28):
Should have gone through NRT

Well it seemed like a direct flight for them, and all on UA metal, I am not sure UA serves NRT-HKG anymore?
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Viscount724
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:23 am

Quoting malaysia (Reply 33):
I am not sure UA serves NRT-HKG anymore?

No they don't. It ended 2 years ago. At the end it was a daily 737-800.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/...ng-service-from-late-october-2013/
 
copter808
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:26 am

Quoting malaysia (Reply 33):
I am not sure UA serves NRT-HKG anymore?

Looks like they fly it 4 times weekly, M W F Sa. I thought they had terminated it too.
 
Viscount724
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:41 am

Quoting copter808 (Reply 35):
Quoting malaysia (Reply 33):
I am not sure UA serves NRT-HKG anymore?

Looks like they fly it 4 times weekly, M W F Sa. I thought they had terminated it too.

I can't find any UA flights NRT-HKG-NRT. Where are you looking? Are you sure you're not looking at a UA codeshare flight?
 
GavinSharp
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:45 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 36):

I can't find any UA flights NRT-HKG-NRT. Where are you looking?

e.g. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL7989

[Edited 2015-10-15 19:46:52]
 
Viscount724
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:50 am

Quoting GavinSharp (Reply 37):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 36):

I can't find any UA flights NRT-HKG-NRT. Where are you looking?

e.g. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL7989

That's a codeshare flight, not operated by UA. It's operated by Air Japan under the ANA brand. Check UA's website schedules and it's clearly indicated as a codeshare. It wouldn't be a UA-operated flight with that flight number.

[Edited 2015-10-15 19:52:03]
 
GavinSharp
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:53 am

Argh, you're right. That's embarrassing. I did think the flight # odd, but I thought FlightAware listed the operating carrier on codeshares, didn't see it, and just figured the unusual flight # was because it was a NRT tag-on.
 
TW870
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:07 am

Quoting AA777223 (Thread starter):
They also serve some very cool secondary Japanese locations that I would love to get to, without flying through NRT or KIX like Fukuoka, Sapporo and Sendai.

The geography just doesn't work, because Guam is so far from the U.S. as others have pointed out. For example, IAH-GUM-Sapporo is a whopping 8231nm, while going through NRT is only 6197nm. Really only the very far southeast part of the GUM network - like Indonesia - would be efficient for mainland U.S. connections. And with such huge efficiencies with the ANA agreement at NRT, there is really nothing GUM can offer.

This question taught me something new about geography, as I didn't know GUM was that far from the U.S. LAX-AKL is only about 350 miles further than LAX-GUM.
 
flyingdoc787
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:35 am

I recently flew UA from Moline to Manila via - wait for it - Denver, Narita, and Guam. It was a long trip, and I had to spend 8.5 hours in Guam, between 10:30pm to 7am. At first I was going to tough it out in the airport, but at the last minute I chickened out and got an airport hotel (using my MileagePlus miles, so it didn't cost me cash). Interestingly, when I checked in in Moline, the agent remarked that someone else had the exact same itinerary a week before! On my way back, I flew Manila-Guam-Honolulu-Denver-Moline. That felt even longer, as it was an overnight (red-eye) on the first leg to Guam, and another overnighter from Honolulu to Denver, but it was crazy because I left Manila late Thursday evening, arrived Guam Friday morning, then arrived Honolulu Thursday afternoon, and landed in Denver Friday morning again! I love the International Date Line! Also, I had to pass through US Immigration twice in Guam (once upon arrival, and then there's another immigration check at the departure gate), had to claim my baggage in Honolulu, pass through Customs, and drop off my bags for the connecting flight to the Mainland. Oh, and since Guam-Honolulu-Denver is considered domestic, all food on board was for purchase! Good thing I packed a couple of tuna sandwiches and Filipino pastries! Anybody else want to connect in Guam???  
 
FlyHossD
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:47 am

Quoting AA777223 (Thread starter):
I am puzzled by how UA uses their GUM hub... ...Please let me know your thoughts.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
The flying such as the secondary Japan markets are meant solely for local tourism and are standalone flights, not designed to flow people across the UA network to the mainland.

  

Guam, Saipan and the other Micronesian islands are primarily intended as markets for Japanese tourists. But don't let that stop you for visiting Guam and those Japanese cities - I've spent some enjoyable days in Japan.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
lemonkitty
Posts: 113
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:54 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):

Braniff flew Non-stop LAX-GUM using the 747sp back in the 80's
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lemonkitty
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:00 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
There has been various talk over the years that a non-stop to LAX would be forthcoming, because of the amount of traffic.

Braniff flew Non-stop LAX-GUM using the 747SP back in the 80's
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RetiredWeasel
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:40 am

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 42):
Guam, Saipan and the other Micronesian islands are primarily intended as markets for Japanese tourists.

Northwest tried a mini hub out of GUM in the mid 90s utilizing 727s. As you and others have said, mostly beach traffic to and from Japan (NGO,FUK,OKA) and SEL and TPE. A few seats on the OKA flights were contracted by the military as NW also ran a DC-10 from HNL to GUM. Some of the 727s were also utilized on SEL-MNL and SEL-TPE for a while and this was an entirely different market.

They closed the base in 1996 but was a great gig for us pilots who were based and lived there. The management said they needed the 72s back on the mainland as air travel was picking up, but we pretty much knew that they couldn't compete with Air Mike who was well established there and had a bigger operation.
 
FlyHossD
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:45 am

Quoting RetiredWeasel (Reply 45):
Northwest tried a mini hub out of GUM in the mid 90s utilizing 727s. As you and others have said, mostly beach traffic to and from Japan (NGO,FUK,OKA) and SEL and TPE. A few seats on the OKA flights were contracted by the military as NW also ran a DC-10 from HNL to GUM. Some of the 727s were also utilized on SEL-MNL and SEL-TPE for a while and this was an entirely different market.

They closed the base in 1996 but was a great gig for us pilots who were based and lived there. The management said they needed the 72s back on the mainland as air travel was picking up, but we pretty much knew that they couldn't compete with Air Mike who was well established there and had a bigger operation.

Thanks for your post.

I arrived at Air Mike about 16-18 months before the end of the NW base at GUM. It was some good flying (727s and DC10s) and I suspect that I'll never do anything quite like that again.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
covert
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:05 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 12):

I have no idea if UA have contracts with the USAF to fly personnel in & out of GUM for the Anderson Air Base there

To clarify, the US GSA (General Services Administration) sets the per diem rates and airfare contracts for the routine travel of all US Government personnel. The military members are lumped in there for their per diem rates and official travel. DL actually has most of the US Government contracts out of GUM. UA has quite a few as well.

So in short, there are a lot of Federal government employees rotating out of GUM (FBI, Agriculture, etc.), and the US airlines make quite a bit of coin from them. Possibly the second largest source of revenue other than the Asian point of sale (tourists) And yes, some of the US Government official routings to the mainland from GUM route through NRT on DL.
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RWA380
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:06 am

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 3):

Very good question, I always thought the same. They could serve a huge number of secondary Chinese cities, Vietnam, Indonesia, Bangladesh, maybe Busan even too all from Guam on 737's. They could offer 1 stop flights from all their hubs in the U.S. To these destinations then via Guam. Then they wouldn't need to worry about Japanese currency issues they had complained about with the Narita hub too.

GUM is far out of the way & doesn't have the facilities to operate as a transit hub.

Quoting adamblang (Reply 10):
I *think* if you have nonstop GUM-mainland service, you kill the business case for nonstop GUM-HNL service.

The same reason that flight has been from HNL since it's inception with CO Mike, before that GUM was a fuel stop for airlines like TW & PA.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 12):

I have no idea if UA have contracts with the USAF to fly personnel in & out of GUM for the Anderson Air Base there,

All US airlines have military fares & US Government employee rates on all US air routes. When traveling on orders or business, any US Government employee can avail themselves of these rates, SATO used to do the travel for the military, don't know if that's changed, but I've booked many a military fare in my days.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 12):
most Americans I spoke to were connected with the USAF in some form or another.

Because that is the vast majority of Americans that go there, I have several military brat friends who spent time on Guam.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 16):
I don't think United carries many charter passengers, but many of those on leave fly UA through HNL.

Indeed UA's operation in GUM is with the military in mind, although for group movements the military uses their own planes or uses a commercial charter company, but individuals or families traveling on leave or being relocated go via UA more often than not.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
How many Indonesians are looking for a beach vacation in Guam?

I think the better question would be, how many Military people & families want to visit Indonesia on their leave? Indonesia is an amazing place with inexpensive cost to some aspects of the entire journey.

Quoting malaysia (Reply 27):
I was in HNL once and saw a couple checking in for HNL-HKG via GUM on United.

Of course, it's the only way you can get there from HNL on UA, unless you go via NRT then connect to NH. They may have been Hawaii residents & UA frequent flyers are all over the Islands, when I worked in HNL many of my regular corporate travelers were 1k's, only one guy was die hard DL, he would fly HNL-LAX-HKG just to fly DL & always paid F.

Or they could have been on passes as employees of the airline or another carrier that has a reciprocal with UA, the potential reasons are various and many.

Quoting ua900 (Reply 28):
Should have gone through NRT
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 31):
Braniff June 1980 route map. All the Asian routes were gone a few months later, and of course Braniff itself was gone by 1982.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 31):
The only carrier that's ever operated nonstop from the U.S. mainland to GUM was Braniff and, like all their short-lived transpacific services, it was a failure. Many of the 747SP flights were almost empty. GUM was a stop to HKG.

         Other than the SIN service that route map is the height of Asia for BN. Sadly those gas guzzling SP's were a huge financial drain on BN & flying them empty was sadly their ruin.

I guess the saying "build it & they will come" from Close Encounters, does not hold true in the airline industry.
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malaysia
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RE: UA And Guam

Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:55 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 48):
Of course, it's the only way you can get there from HNL on UA, unless you go via NRT then connect to NH. They may have been Hawaii residents & UA frequent flyers are all over the Islands, when I worked in HNL many of my regular corporate travelers were 1k's, only one guy was die hard DL, he would fly HNL-LAX-HKG just to fly DL & always paid F.

Or they could have been on passes as employees of the airline or another carrier that has a reciprocal with UA, the potential reasons are various and many.

They had paid tickets and were Taiwanese passport holders who resided in Hong Kong.
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