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United Airline
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Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:01 am

Any 2-5-2 left? Who made this terrible design?

The only advantage I can think of is: There is only 1 person per roll that has to climb over 2 seats/passengers.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:20 am

I think UAs Hawaii 777s are configured this way.
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Miami
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:27 am

Isn't American's 77E have the 2-5-2?
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smokeybandit
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:29 am

I was on a UA 777 that was 2-5-2, but that was 2009 I think.
 
rta
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:39 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 2):
Isn't American's 77E have the 2-5-2?

Yep. The majority of AA's 77Es are 2-5-2, except for a few refurbished ones that are 3-4-3.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:43 am

UA's domestic/Hawaii 777s are 2-5-2. AA is going to a 3-4-3 in steerage. Most other airlines are either 3-3-3 or 3-4-3.
 
col
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:47 am

MH is still 2-5-2, which is still better than 3-4-3.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:33 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
The only advantage I can think of is: There is only 1 person per roll that has to climb over 2 seats/passengers.

That's not the only advantage. A significant percentage of passengers are travelling as couples and prefer the 2-seat units so they don't have to share with a stranger. That's one of the big advantages of the 7-abreast (2-3-2) 767 and 8-abreast (2-4-2) A330/340 cabins.
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:26 am

Yeah, AA and MH are still 2-5-2 on their 772s. I flew on an AA 772 last summer in that middle column, not a great experience. The 2 seats are great though.
 
flyingdoc787
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:39 am

Just flew UA from GUM to HNL and then HNL to DEN on a 777-200. It was 2-5-2 in Y. Good thing I booked an aisle seat on the 2-seater pair! I actually got both seats to myself on the GUM-HNL segment.
 
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:22 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
A significant percentage of passengers are travelling as couples and prefer the 2-seat units so they don't have to share with a stranger.

Exactly - though the double-middle seat would be really really really awful to be in as a paying punter, and probably not very high on the joy list for non-rev either, the window pairs are made that much nicer. I also love them as a single traveller because I can have a window but still only be one seat from the aisle.

Only confirms that 2-3-2 on the 767 is the best economy layout in the sky, by far.
 
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:40 pm

Air China. Even after refurbishing their 777-200s they didn't even bother matching their new 77W product at 3-3-3 in Y. At least they're on way out now. Awful to sit in the middle seat of 5.
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RIX
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:28 pm

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 10):


Only confirms that 2-3-2 on the 767 is the best economy layout in the sky, by far.

- I'd say, followed very closely by 2-4-2. Not much difference really. It's rather "coziness" of 2-3-2 that makes 767 so unique in economy, kind of similar to 2-2 upper deck of 747 for premium cabin (which my daughter called once, "private jet with strangers").

Back to 2-5-2: I remember seeing those middle 5 seats (on AY MD11s) used as flat beds on overnight flights - surely, if the cabin was empty enough.
 
winGl3t
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:37 pm

Flew AA LAX-NRT, MIA-LAX and LAX-GRU recently and they were all on an old 2-5-2 configuration of 772
 
SaschaYHZ
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:15 pm

I'd just hate that, if I was travelling as a single pax, being stuck in the middle of the row of 5.   
 
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ssteve
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:22 pm

Quoting RIX (Reply 12):
- I'd say, followed very closely by 2-4-2.

3-2 ain't too bad, either. Though the long single aisle can stink. In any event, 3s and 5s are to be avoided.
 
dc9northwest
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting SaschaYHZ (Reply 14):
I'd just hate that, if I was travelling as a single pax, being stuck in the middle of the row of 5.

Almost as bad as sitting in the window seat on a 3-X-3 with flight attendants telling you to put your shade down. At least in the 2-5-2 you have 2 ways out.
 
LH707330
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:10 pm

The 2-5-2 has largely died because of the IFE designs, many of which are designed for 3 seats. With 3-3-3, you save a box per row.
 
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:39 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
That's not the only advantage. A significant percentage of passengers are travelling as couples and prefer the 2-seat units so they don't have to share with a stranger. That's one of the big advantages of the 7-abreast (2-3-2) 767 and 8-abreast (2-4-2) A330/340 cabins.

Strongly agree. The fact that most airline seating charts these days come in blocks of 3 makes it really difficult to travel as a couple, as someone will get stuck with the middle seat. I'm surprised that more airlines don't employ the 2-4-3 configuration... seems to be the best of both worlds between 2-5-2 vs. 3-3-3.
 
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TR763
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:12 pm

ANA flies some 77W in 2-4-3 config (IMO, the best for a 777).
Why haven't more airlines chosen this configuration?


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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:20 pm

I've had horrible luck on 2-5-2 aircraft dating all the way back to L-1011s. I think the majority of my trips in a 2-5-2 configuration have been in the middle middle seat. I'd much rather be in any seat in a 3-3-3 configuration.
 
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AA777223
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:25 pm

Quoting TR763 (Reply 19):

I've flown on that config, and really liked it. I was traveling alone, so I chose a window seat on the 2 side. It was really convenient and comfortable.
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:32 pm

Quoting SaschaYHZ (Reply 14):
I'd just hate that, if I was travelling as a single pax, being stuck in the middle of the row of 5.

That is incredibly rare.

Quoting LH707330 (Reply 17):
The 2-5-2 has largely died because of the IFE designs, many of which are designed for 3 seats. With 3-3-3, you save a box per row.

Yup. That is why UA dumped 2-5-2 when they refurbished the 3 class 772s. Sad.

Quoting TR763 (Reply 19):

ANA flies some 77W in 2-4-3 config (IMO, the best for a 777).
Why haven't more airlines chosen this configuration?

Yeah, fairly surprising more didn't do this.
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seabosdca
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:16 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
That is incredibly rare.

Not for business travelers making late bookings in a 90+% LF world. Again, I think most of my trips on 2-5-2 equipment have been in that seat. Convert them all yesterday.
 
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:08 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 23):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
That is incredibly rare.

Not for business travelers making late bookings in a 90+% LF world. Again, I think most of my trips on 2-5-2 equipment have been in that seat. Convert them all yesterday.

IMO, most travelers in "the captain's/devil's chair" are low fare pax too ignorant to select their seat at time of purchase. Sorry if your business is just that cheap.   
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DDR
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:58 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 24):

Have to agree with you.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:11 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 24):
IMO, most travelers in "the captain's/devil's chair" are low fare pax too ignorant to select their seat at time of purchase.

Or don't purchase until all of the other seats are already taken. That has been the situation on my last three domestic UA 777 trips.

Convert them. If you can't convert them, scrap them. The middle-middle seat is claustrophobic and horrible.

[Edited 2015-10-16 17:13:00]
 
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yyz717
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:01 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Any 2-5-2 left? Who made this terrible design?

Savvy travellers SHOULD prefer 2-5-2 since they could select the L or R column ahead of time. Most anetters should be in this group. Most other travellers are oblivious to who offers 2-5-2 vs 3-3-3 and won't notice until they check in.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 7):
That's not the only advantage. A significant percentage of passengers are travelling as couples and prefer the 2-seat units so they don't have to share with a stranger. That's one of the big advantages of the 7-abreast (2-3-2) 767 and 8-abreast (2-4-2) A330/340 cabins.

Agree.
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777Jet
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:34 am

I prefer the 2-5-2 777s and used to always try to fly MH if the MH 777 was operating to where I was going just because of the config - now I avoid MH at all costs and have sadly picked EK 3-4-3 777s just to avoid MH.

The 2-5-2 is ideal for groups of 2 and I also like the idea that there is only one person per row that has to climb over two others to access the aisle.

Having said that, I imagine it would be horrible to sit in the middle of any bunch of 5 seats. I've always had the window or aisle in every 2-5-2 777 I've been on, including the old UA domestic config and on the CA 772, whether or not I've requested it.

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 10):
Only confirms that 2-3-2 on the 767 is the best economy layout in the sky, by far.

  

Quoting RIX (Reply 12):
I'd say, followed very closely by 2-4-2.

  

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 15):
3-2 ain't too bad, either.

  

Quoting cba (Reply 18):
I'm surprised that more airlines don't employ the 2-4-3 configuration... seems to be the best of both worlds between 2-5-2 vs. 3-3-3.

  

Quoting TR763 (Reply 19):
ANA flies some 77W in 2-4-3 config (IMO, the best for a 777).
Why haven't more airlines chosen this configuration?

  

How many under seat boxes are required to supply the IFE for 4 seats in the middle because it has been mentioned that one under seat box per 3 seats.

I've always wondered if the balance of the plane is slightly affected by uneven configs such as 2-4-3 or 2-3...???

[Edited 2015-10-16 19:42:43]
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N1120A
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:31 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 23):
Not for business travelers making late bookings in a 90+% LF world. Again, I think most of my trips on 2-5-2 equipment have been in that seat. Convert them all yesterday.

11% of the Y cabin. Even at today's load factors, that seat will nearly never be occupied by anyone other than a child.

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 24):
IMO, most travelers in "the captain's/devil's chair" are low fare pax too ignorant to select their seat at time of purchase. Sorry if your business is just that cheap.

I think most people in that seat are small children with their families.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 28):
How many under seat boxes are required to supply the IFE for 4 seats in the middle because it has been mentioned that one under seat box per 3 seats.

I think 3 seats per.
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Vos
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:55 am

Does someone have a picture of a 2-5-2 config.? Would be nice to see  
 
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vhqpa
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:40 am

Quoting vos (Reply 30):

Does someone have a picture of a 2-5-2 config.? Would be nice to see  

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KirkSeattle
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:50 pm

Quoting SaschaYHZ (Reply 14):
I'd just hate that, if I was travelling as a single pax, being stuck in the middle of the row of 5.   
Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
That is incredibly rare.
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 23):
Not for business travelers making late bookings in a 90+% LF world. Again, I think most of my trips on 2-5-2 equipment have been in that seat. Convert them all yesterday.

I flew SEA-DFW-MIA on AA Thursday of this week. I was headed there for a job interview and the ticket was paid for by the company (I couldn't change the seat because of a full flight). I was excited to ride in a 772 domestically (DFW-MIA) which I haven't done in years. I landed in the dreaded "middle, middle" seat (E). Okay, not that bad, but certainly not for an international flight. The "high pitched, ear piercing" screams of the child behind me made it super dreadful even before take-off. Thanks to a caring, observant flight attendant, she moved me to an aisle seat (H). I thanked her again during drink service. Thank you AA Flight Attendants!

Cheers,
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Viscount724
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:20 am

Quoting vos (Reply 30):
Does someone have a picture of a 2-5-2 config.? Would be nice to see
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For those who haven't flown on DC-10s, the plastic panel at the top of some of the seatbacks in the rear view is the panel concealing the emergency oxygen masks which are in the seatbacks on DC-10s, not overhead. The last row visible in the rear view is a little different since it's 4-abreast, not 5. The last 4 or 5 rows had 4 seats in the center section due to the narrower fuselage at the rear.

As a sidenote, that aircraft was originally delivered to TG in 1977 and also operated for SAS and MH, before NW acquired it in 1996. All 24 or so NW DC-10-30s were acquired used. A couple were as much as 23 years old when NW obtained them, mainly for use on Europe routes after NW expanded their operations there significantly. Around 7 or 8 were ex-Swissair after Swissair replaced the DC-10s with MD-11s.

[Edited 2015-10-17 20:26:44]
 
airzona11
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:17 am

Quoting TR763 (Reply 19):
ANA flies some 77W in 2-4-3 config (IMO, the best for a 777).
Why haven't more airlines chosen this configuration?

Great configuration. I believe the issue has to do with IFE. You need a set number of boxes and equipment every few seats, this would require more than necessary (heavy) equipment.

Now with streaming IFE, this would be a non-issue. Would love to see this more. However, the push to 3-4-3 is way more likely.
 
sfjeff
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:38 pm

Now that most airlines are going 10 across on 777s, I was wondering if any will go 2-5-3.
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777Jet
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:53 pm

Quoting SFJeff (Reply 35):
Now that most airlines are going 10 across on 777s, I was wondering if any will go 2-5-3.

I'm actually wondering when the 11 across 3-5-3 A380s, first at EK of course, will start showing up  

That's 3 pax per row that will have to climb over two others to access the aisle... how fun!
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Viscount724
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:36 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 36):
I'm actually wondering when the 11 across 3-5-3 A380s, first at EK of course, will start showing up

Didn't EK say they were not pursuing the 11-abreast A380 option?
 
Freshside3
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:58 pm

Quoting TR763 (Reply 19):
ANA flies some 77W in 2-4-3 config (IMO, the best for a 777).
Why haven't more airlines chosen this configuration?

Probably because it is not symmetrical. That's the only reason I can think of. It's probably more difficult to set up, and more chance of error in doing so.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:06 pm

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 38):
Quoting TR763 (Reply 19):
ANA flies some 77W in 2-4-3 config (IMO, the best for a 777).
Why haven't more airlines chosen this configuration?

Probably because it is not symmetrical. That's the only reason I can think of. It's probably more difficult to set up, and more chance of error in doing so.

Means 3 completely different seat units and more parts. With 3-3-3, I expect the seats are virtually interchangeable regardless of position, apart from some changes to the supports that attach to the seat tracks. Also easier to reach the overhead bins with 3 seats in the center section than 4 (or 5).

3-4-2 (or 2-4-3) was common on MD-11s. KLM changed theirs to 3-3-3 when they added new seats with PTVs a few years before they were retired, probably to avoid the need for an extra underseat control box. I remember flying on both KLM and Swissair MD-11s with the original 2-4-3 configuration. On KLM the 3-seat unit was on the right side. On Swissair it was on the left side, like the early 747s before they changed from 9-abreast (3-4-2) to 10-abreast (3-4-3).

[Edited 2015-10-18 16:24:52]
 
afcjets
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RE: Any 2-5-2 Configuration Left?

Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:46 am

3x3x3 is a much newer configuration. I think the reason 2x5x2 was used is because the first two aircraft that had it, the L1011 and DC10, were initially 2x2/2x2 with a partition between the 2 pairs of seats in the center. The airlines replaced it with another seat and only had to redo the center track, oh wait I forgot they probably shrunk the seats and had to do that anyways lol. I remember flying AA from LAX-DFW on the 1am departure in 1990 on a DC10 and moving to have a whole row of 5 to myself, it was great!

[Edited 2015-10-18 18:57:11]

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