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VV
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:48 pm

Embraer should stick with their plan. That's it that's all.

As for the 900 design changes so late in the SpaceJet development, I would say, "What the heck???"
 
VV
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Re: Mitsubishi to delay SpaceJet deliveries to late 2021 or 2022

Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:17 pm

EMBSPBR wrote:
...

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transp ... 80.article

"Mitsubishi upbeat on SpaceJet despite fresh delays, citing ‘certifiable design’"

Excerpts:

“We have made significant changes to our organisation and improvements in the way we do business,” the company says on 6 February. “We have also made a myriad of changes to the design of our aircraft.”

Mitsubishi Aircraft has made more than 900 SpaceJet design changes in the last three years, the company said earlier this month.

“There is an incredible amount of interdependency among these components and systems, and it takes time to fully investigate the impact of the changes,” it said.

...


I do not understand their style of communication.

Wouldn't you prefer to not say there were 900 design changes?
What are those changes? Are they all equally important?

Why would you even say such details during a press conference?

The more I look into it the more I think this program is going nowhere.
 
ITB
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:48 am

Earlier this week a Reuters news article (link below) explained in more detail why delivery of the first M90 frame was pushed back to mid-2021.

Mitsubishi Aircraft Chief Development Officer Alex Bellamy said a test plane that had around 960 changes from the original design was due to fly in the coming weeks to prove its airworthiness to regulators.

Some of the changes, such as to crew alerts, were made after two deadly crashes of the Boeing Co 737 MAX that has led to global regulatory scrutiny on pilot responses to emergency situations, he said.

“We have completely redesigned the philosophy of human factors on the flight deck in the last year,” Bellamy told Reuters in an interview at the Singapore Airshow.


https://www.reuters.com/article/singapo ... SL4N2AB0QC

Above I've bolded and underlined the pertinent statement. Obviously, with such significant modifications, considerable additional time will be necessary to complete the certification process, thus the revised schedule. It's very possible Mitsubishi decided to embark on these flight deck changes on its own. At the same time, it's also reasonable to believe the FAA and other authorities pushed them to make modifications. And if that's true, it's likely due to the 737 MAX incidents.

Evidently when Mitsubishi pushed back the M90's developmental time frame to accommodate the necessary re-wiring redesign, the additional time allowed dozens of other changes, both big and small, to be incorporated in the new frame. In total, 960 modifications were made. Some of these modifications were, undoubtedly, necessary to the certification process. However, dozens, if not hundreds, probably were not. While Mitsubishi could have implemented a good number of these modifications after certification, they chose not to go in that direction. The result is very "refreshed" frame, one that is virtually a production aircraft.

Even though a sixth delay to the project doesn't look good, Mitsubishi had little choice, particularly if the FAA and other regulatory authorities asked for (or mandated) modifications. When questions arose concerning the certification of 737 MAX some analysts speculated Mitsubishi would face a more rigorous certification process with its SpaceJet. That projection has come true.

VV wrote:
Wait! Mine hundred modifications implemented on the latest flight test article?????

Does it mean the first ones are useless for certification?

What"a going on there????


No, the first four frames continue to fly and have satisfied a great many certification requirements. The new frame(s) with the revised wiring system and other modifications are planned to complement the test flying done by the earlier frames, completing certain certification requirements not possible with the early builds. At this time, at least one new test aircraft — and maybe two or three — is to be ferried to Moses Lake to join the test fleet.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:58 pm

ITB wrote:
Some of the changes, such as to crew alerts, were made after two deadly crashes of the Boeing Co 737 MAX that has led to global regulatory scrutiny on pilot responses to emergency situations, he said.
“We have completely redesigned the philosophy of human factors on the flight deck in the last year,” Bellamy told Reuters in an interview at the Singapore Airshow.


Use the MAX saga as an excuse for their incompetence and that this caused changes in the project regarding the pilot warning system ??? No way ...
What would they have done if there was no MAX?

Same source:
https://www.reuters.com/article/singapo ... SL4N2AB0QC

“We have signed a number of commitments with many airlines – a very big number in the hundreds that we haven’t publicly disclosed because we still have a lot of work to do before we get there,” he said.

Ohhh, really ???
 
Nean1
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:08 pm

EMBSPBR wrote:
ITB wrote:
Some of the changes, such as to crew alerts, were made after two deadly crashes of the Boeing Co 737 MAX that has led to global regulatory scrutiny on pilot responses to emergency situations, he said.
“We have completely redesigned the philosophy of human factors on the flight deck in the last year,” Bellamy told Reuters in an interview at the Singapore Airshow.


Use the MAX saga as an excuse for their incompetence and that this caused changes in the project regarding the pilot warning system ??? No way ...
What would they have done if there was no MAX?

Same source:
https://www.reuters.com/article/singapo ... SL4N2AB0QC

“We have signed a number of commitments with many airlines – a very big number in the hundreds that we haven’t publicly disclosed because we still have a lot of work to do before we get there,” he said.

Ohhh, really ???

Neverland Airlines, Rekkof, Dornier and friends.
 
UnMAXed
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:46 pm

Baltia Airlines alone will probable place firm orders for at least 200 frames any day now!
 
VV
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:37 pm

EMBSPBR wrote:



Do they have a dedicated communication team to coach the execs?

I have the feeling they do not have any clear communication plan. What's going on there???
 
mxaxai
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:26 pm

Mitsubishi claims that "the first M90 spacejet completed its maiden flight" about a week ago. https://www.aerospacetestinginternation ... leted.html

I'm not quite sure what they mean by "first"? Unless they mean "the first that is supposed to be identical to the planned serial production models"
 
ekozie
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:10 am

mxaxai wrote:
Mitsubishi claims that "the first M90 spacejet completed its maiden flight" about a week ago. https://www.aerospacetestinginternation ... leted.html

I'm not quite sure what they mean by "first"? Unless they mean "the first that is supposed to be identical to the planned serial production models"


The very first sentence in the article states that the frame is in the "final, certifiable baseline configuration."
 
N505fx
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Re: Mitsubishi to delay SpaceJet deliveries to late 2021 or 2022

Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:23 am

VV wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
...

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transp ... 80.article

"Mitsubishi upbeat on SpaceJet despite fresh delays, citing ‘certifiable design’"

Excerpts:

“We have made significant changes to our organisation and improvements in the way we do business,” the company says on 6 February. “We have also made a myriad of changes to the design of our aircraft.”

Mitsubishi Aircraft has made more than 900 SpaceJet design changes in the last three years, the company said earlier this month.

“There is an incredible amount of interdependency among these components and systems, and it takes time to fully investigate the impact of the changes,” it said.

...


I do not understand their style of communication.

Wouldn't you prefer to not say there were 900 design changes?
What are those changes? Are they all equally important?

Why would you even say such details during a press conference?

The more I look into it the more I think this program is going nowhere.


Very typical Japanese cultural response...the process is the product. A culture that praises process not pragmatism.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:50 am

Capital expenditure is essentially gone for the coming 3 years. 3 years is 20% of the lifespan of a regional aircraft program.
By the time this aircraft can ramp up, we'll be 2026ish.
By 2030 the GTF will be 15 years old, obsolete and facing competing or new versions.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:06 pm

Will the CRJ-acquisition help speeding up this SpaceJet production???
I am tired of seeing 7749 articles announce that this program is delayed once more ~
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VV
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:00 pm

Antaras wrote:
Will the CRJ-acquisition help speeding up this SpaceJet production???
....


I do not think it will.
 
JA786A
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Mon May 11, 2020 12:44 pm

Mitsubishi announced that they will suspend development work for the M100 “until further notice” due to the pandemic. Also, MHI has halved MITAC’s budget to ¥60 billion for the ongoing fiscal year. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/11/business/corporate-business/mitsubishi-heavy-halve-budget-delay-prone-passenger-jet-project/#.XrlG2-RCTYU

Seems like it has become very unlikely that the M90 will be delivered next year.
 
VV
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Mon May 11, 2020 12:58 pm

JA786A wrote:
Mitsubishi announced that they will suspend development work for the M100 “until further notice” due to the pandemic. Also, MHI has halved MITAC’s budget to ¥60 billion for the ongoing fiscal year. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/11/business/corporate-business/mitsubishi-heavy-halve-budget-delay-prone-passenger-jet-project/#.XrlG2-RCTYU

Seems like it has become very unlikely that the M90 will be delivered next year.


Covid-19 is used as excuse.

Basically they are conceding that E175-E2 will be the only choice for new generation regional jet for the next five years.

My most optimistic timeline for SpaceJet M90 certification is in 2022. The median is a certification in 2023 and the worst case scenario is 2024/2025 or even total abandon.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Mon May 11, 2020 1:28 pm

JA786A wrote:
Mitsubishi announced that they will suspend development work for the M100 “until further notice” due to the pandemic. Also, MHI has halved MITAC’s budget to ¥60 billion for the ongoing fiscal year. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/11/business/corporate-business/mitsubishi-heavy-halve-budget-delay-prone-passenger-jet-project/#.XrlG2-RCTYU

Seems like it has become very unlikely that the M90 will be delivered next year.

So no new scope-compliant regional aircraft <100 seats indefinitely ... I guess the future fleets will be A320/737 + A350/787 only.
 
Nean1
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Mon May 11, 2020 2:14 pm

Why did Bombardier leave the regional jet market? Embraer took them.
And what happened to Sukhoi in the regional segment? Used Embraer jets have killed their chances.
But what if a powerful and rich Japanese consortium, aided by the most advanced turbine technology, tries to conquer this market with great government support? Well, they will spend almost four times more than Embraer, which will do the job in a third of the time. Finally, they die on the beach.
So why is everyone on the blog so concerned about Embraer's future? That's the tough question ...
 
bkmbr
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Mon May 11, 2020 4:08 pm

mxaxai wrote:
JA786A wrote:
Mitsubishi announced that they will suspend development work for the M100 “until further notice” due to the pandemic. Also, MHI has halved MITAC’s budget to ¥60 billion for the ongoing fiscal year. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/11/business/corporate-business/mitsubishi-heavy-halve-budget-delay-prone-passenger-jet-project/#.XrlG2-RCTYU

Seems like it has become very unlikely that the M90 will be delivered next year.

So no new scope-compliant regional aircraft <100 seats indefinitely ... I guess the future fleets will be A320/737 + A350/787 only.


Now that the airliners have no other foreseeable option in the future I would bet that the possible change in the scope clauses are much closer to reality. Embraer could also create the ERJ-170E2 that probably would comply with the current scope clause.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Mon May 11, 2020 5:34 pm

JA786A wrote:
Mitsubishi announced that they will suspend development work for the M100 “until further notice” due to the pandemic. Also, MHI has halved MITAC’s budget to ¥60 billion for the ongoing fiscal year. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/11/business/corporate-business/mitsubishi-heavy-halve-budget-delay-prone-passenger-jet-project/#.XrlG2-RCTYU

Seems like it has become very unlikely that the M90 will be delivered next year.

The MRJ drove the larger Mitsubishi Heavy into a loss. I didn't suspect that. This will change the budget.

Lightsaber
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JoseSalazar
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Mon May 11, 2020 5:38 pm

bkmbr wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
JA786A wrote:
Mitsubishi announced that they will suspend development work for the M100 “until further notice” due to the pandemic. Also, MHI has halved MITAC’s budget to ¥60 billion for the ongoing fiscal year. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/11/business/corporate-business/mitsubishi-heavy-halve-budget-delay-prone-passenger-jet-project/#.XrlG2-RCTYU

Seems like it has become very unlikely that the M90 will be delivered next year.

So no new scope-compliant regional aircraft <100 seats indefinitely ... I guess the future fleets will be A320/737 + A350/787 only.


Now that the airliners have no other foreseeable option in the future I would bet that the possible change in the scope clauses are much closer to reality. Embraer could also create the ERJ-170E2 that probably would comply with the current scope clause.


Pilots have to vote on a scope change for it to happen, and they won’t vote to outsource their own jobs. The only possible way scope will get relaxed is if that happens in a bankruptcy and the judge tosses or amends the scope clauses. And even that would be a tough sell. Pilots would vote to shut their airline down before they voted to allow scope concessions again. If scope were to be relaxed, there would be a mutiny. Allowing large outsourced RJs to proliferate over the last 20-25 years was the biggest mistake in ALPA’s history, and they will do everything they can to prevent it from happening again.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Mon May 11, 2020 5:41 pm

mxaxai wrote:
JA786A wrote:
Mitsubishi announced that they will suspend development work for the M100 “until further notice” due to the pandemic. Also, MHI has halved MITAC’s budget to ¥60 billion for the ongoing fiscal year. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/11/business/corporate-business/mitsubishi-heavy-halve-budget-delay-prone-passenger-jet-project/#.XrlG2-RCTYU

Seems like it has become very unlikely that the M90 will be delivered next year.

So no new scope-compliant regional aircraft <100 seats indefinitely ... I guess the future fleets will be A320/737 + A350/787 only.

And 190/195E2, A220, 777X, and the 737 replacement. Possibly a new smaller WB from AB. And embraer’s new plane it designs (or redesigns) after it cant sell 175 E2s to anyone. Or possibly E175-E2s if greedy airline management stops trying to outsource it.
 
bkmbr
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Mon May 11, 2020 6:22 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:

Pilots have to vote on a scope change for it to happen, and they won’t vote to outsource their own jobs. The only possible way scope will get relaxed is if that happens in a bankruptcy and the judge tosses or amends the scope clauses. And even that would be a tough sell. Pilots would vote to shut their airline down before they voted to allow scope concessions again. If scope were to be relaxed, there would be a mutiny. Allowing large outsourced RJs to proliferate over the last 20-25 years was the biggest mistake in ALPA’s history, and they will do everything they can to prevent it from happening again.


Not that unlikely of a possibly in the post-covid world.
 
Nean1
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Mon May 11, 2020 8:09 pm

bkmbr wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
JA786A wrote:
Mitsubishi announced that they will suspend development work for the M100 “until further notice” due to the pandemic. Also, MHI has halved MITAC’s budget to ¥60 billion for the ongoing fiscal year. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/11/business/corporate-business/mitsubishi-heavy-halve-budget-delay-prone-passenger-jet-project/#.XrlG2-RCTYU

Seems like it has become very unlikely that the M90 will be delivered next year.

So no new scope-compliant regional aircraft <100 seats indefinitely ... I guess the future fleets will be A320/737 + A350/787 only.


Now that the airliners have no other foreseeable option in the future I would bet that the possible change in the scope clauses are much closer to reality. Embraer could also create the ERJ-170E2 that probably would comply with the current scope clause.


In this context, without the CRJ-900 competition, with Mitsubishi stalling the development of the M-100 and with turboprop alternatives even less attractive due oil below 45 USD / barrel WHY would Embraer spend money on such project?
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Mon May 11, 2020 8:25 pm

Nean1 is right, why spend any dimes to make a lighter scope compliant E2 when the current E175 keeps selling.

W/o any competition for many years, I would even bet that the price actually went up.
 
bkmbr
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Mon May 11, 2020 9:18 pm

Nean1 wrote:
In this context, without the CRJ-900 competition, with Mitsubishi stalling the development of the M-100 and with turboprop alternatives even less attractive due oil below 45 USD / barrel WHY would Embraer spend money on such project?


Who know what gonna be their plans for the future? Most of the engineering cost to create a ERJ-170E2 was already spent creating the ERJ-175E2 anyway so after the 175E2 is certificated they can try a supplemental certificate for the ERJ-170E2 Since the ERJ-175E1 was in fact listed as an ERJ-170-200 by the FAA, so who knows if this could be a possibility ?
 
Jungleneer
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Flight Global: Mitsubishi to halve SpaceJet budget, review M100 development

Wed May 13, 2020 12:27 pm

Seems like COVID is making another victim. M100 program paused, and M90 EIS delayed again.

"Mitsubishi Aircraft’s parent company will review the development of a 76-seater variant of its regional jet programme nearly a year after its launch, as full-year losses related to the programme widened.

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) will also halve the budget allocated for the SpaceJet regional aircraft programme to Y60 billion ($558 million) for the year ending 31 March 2021. "




https://www.flightglobal.com/aerospace/ ... 29.article
 
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Revelation
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Re: Flight Global: Mitsubishi to halve SpaceJet budget, review M100 development

Wed May 13, 2020 1:22 pm

I think M100 has become the BER of airplane programs! :D
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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DfwRevolution
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Re: Flight Global: Mitsubishi to halve SpaceJet budget, review M100 development

Wed May 13, 2020 1:26 pm

I half wonder if the SpaceJet is just a cover for a black program and they have no intention of ever finishing this jet.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
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keesje
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Re: Flight Global: Mitsubishi to halve SpaceJet budget, review M100 development

Wed May 13, 2020 2:44 pm

Maybe Airbus can throw a life line. Seems to fit nicely inbetween the ATR's and A220's, maybe assemble in Mobile.

Image
https://www.pilootenvliegtuig.nl/2020/0 ... -en-mrj70/

Airbus A120-200 :wink2:

It looks sharp & seems well positioned. The MRJ problems were severe though.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Flight Global: Mitsubishi to halve SpaceJet budget, review M100 development

Wed May 13, 2020 2:48 pm

Revelation wrote:
I think M100 has become the BER of airplane programs! :D

I think that's an insult... to the BER program :lol:
 
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ADent
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Wed May 13, 2020 4:17 pm

bkmbr wrote:
Who know what gonna be their plans for the future? Most of the engineering cost to create a ERJ-170E2 was already spent creating the ERJ-175E2 anyway so after the 175E2 is certificated they can try a supplemental certificate for the ERJ-170E2 Since the ERJ-175E1 was in fact listed as an ERJ-170-200 by the FAA, so who knows if this could be a possibility ?


There was a long thread on the E2 recently and it was estimated there that a scope limited E2 would have less than 1000 mile range due to heavier engines and structure needed for them. Usable, but quite a bit shorter than existing E1 and CRJ models.

The M100 range will be shorter than the E1, but significantly longer than this notional E2-170 (all at scope limited MTOW).
 
YULobserver
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Re: Flight Global: Mitsubishi to halve SpaceJet budget, review M100 development

Wed May 13, 2020 5:22 pm

keesje wrote:
Maybe Airbus can throw a life line. Seems to fit nicely inbetween the ATR's and A220's, maybe assemble in Mobile.




Are you working for FliegerFaust at http://www.fliegeriswrong.com? lol
If you answer no, send him your Resume!
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Wed May 13, 2020 6:54 pm

I wonder how the CRJ acquisition fits in light of this pause on the SpaceJet programme. Does the acquisition continue at all? If so, do Mitsubishi stick with the plan of closing production, or keep the doors open for longer? Interesting times ahead.

V/F
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VV
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Wed May 13, 2020 7:36 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
I wonder how the CRJ acquisition fits in light of this pause on the SpaceJet programme. Does the acquisition continue at all? If so, do Mitsubishi stick with the plan of closing production, or keep the doors open for longer? Interesting times ahead.


The CRJ acquisition continues. The cost has been written off in Mitsubishi Heavy Industry result. It is already part of MHI's loss for 2020. It is a done deal that will enter into effect on the first June 2020.

So far, the plan is to dismantle CRJ assembly line in Mirabel starting in June 2020. So yes, CRJ production will cease this year.
Airbus Canada has clearly stated they want to recover the space currently occupied by CRJ assembly by the end of the year.

If MHI wants to continue CRJ production they need to set up a production facility somewhere else outside Airbus Canada's premises. It is unlikely to happen.

All Bombardier Commercial Aircraft division staff who are not on the assembly of CRJ are being transferred to Mitsubishi.
The majority of the factory workers in Mirabel will work for Bombardier (Business Aircraft) or Airbus Canada.

It is not clear if there will be additional lay-offs by Bombardier.

This is a very unsettling period for all those who work for Bombardier Commercial Aircraft, this is the end of Bombardier in commercial aircraft business.

And no, I do not have source. You believe it or not. It is as you like, I do not care.
 
metaldirtnskin
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Re: Flight Global: Mitsubishi to halve SpaceJet budget, review M100 development

Wed May 13, 2020 11:13 pm

keesje wrote:
Maybe Airbus can throw a life line. Seems to fit nicely inbetween the ATR's and A220's, maybe assemble in Mobile.


Sure, and maybe they can get the CRJ while they're at it, and just keep on suckin' up the orphan jet programs as though they were Pokemon. Gotta catch 'em all.
 
JA786A
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Fri May 22, 2020 7:15 pm

Apparently MHI is planning to cut many jobs at MITAC and to greatly reduce their mass production plan as a result of smaller demand due to Covid-19. Initially they were thinking of selling around 1000 jets over a course of 20 years.
https://www.sankei.com/smp/economy/news/200523/ecn2005230002-s1.html
 
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Fri May 22, 2020 7:51 pm

Same story, now in English:

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Aerosp ... alve-staff

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries will sharply scale down its long-troubled SpaceJet program as it faces a global drop in demand for the planned Japanese-made regional jet amid the coronavirus pandemic, Nikkei has learned.

Subsidiary Mitsubishi Aircraft will halt plans for mass production of the 90-seat plane owing partly to delays in parts deliveries, according to an internal notice sent to staff.


Without mass production, Spacejet won't enough economies of scale.
Good moaning!
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Fri May 22, 2020 9:38 pm

I hope it is efficient enough to go in an all 2-1 seating configuration or this plane has no buyers.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Fri May 22, 2020 10:18 pm

More sad news incoming https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 1636627456

After its decision to cut its budget by half, Mitsubishi Aircraft Corporation will "close its overseas locations and consolidate activities at its headquarters in Nagoya, Japan,” according to a spokesman.
Good moaning!
 
bkmbr
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Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:27 am

Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Fri May 22, 2020 11:11 pm

I wonder how long it will take for Mitsubishi to publicly recognize that the M100 will never see daylight.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Sat May 23, 2020 12:15 am

PepeTheFrog wrote:


The article says “300 outstanding orders” ...

Really ?

From whom ?
 
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alberchico
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Sat May 23, 2020 12:55 am

PepeTheFrog wrote:
More sad news incoming https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 1636627456

After its decision to cut its budget by half, Mitsubishi Aircraft Corporation will "close its overseas locations and consolidate activities at its headquarters in Nagoya, Japan,” according to a spokesman.


So that confirms that they don't have high hopes for the export market. It will be operated by mostly Japanese carriers.

Even though this aircraft has a tortured development history, it doesn't even come close to the sad saga of the BA609 which was started in 1996 and initially envisioned to enter to enter service in 2001.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWes ... evelopment
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alberchico
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Sat May 23, 2020 12:57 am

EMBSPBR wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:


The article says “300 outstanding orders” ...

Really ?

From whom ?


This might help.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubish ... Jet#Orders

Granted, I'm not sure how up to date this info is.
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
battlegroup62
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Sat May 23, 2020 7:31 am

alberchico wrote:

This might help.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubish ... Jet#Orders

Granted, I'm not sure how up to date this info is.


I'd wager since Mitsubishi has effectively thrown in the towel by halving the budget for the programs and is now closing offices not located in Japan that orders will start being cancelled. The question will be who will do the cancelling the airlines or Mitsubishi? I'd say it will be the airlines because they are tired of waiting rather than Mitsubishi because that would basically be admitting they failed.
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VV
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Sat May 23, 2020 8:23 am

 
Noshow
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Sat May 23, 2020 9:13 am

Couldn't they somehow form a joint venture with Embraer?
 
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Antaras
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Sat May 23, 2020 11:07 am

Noshow wrote:
Couldn't they somehow form a joint venture with Embraer?

That would effectively kill both the SpaceJet as well as the E2. Have a look at the 717 vs 735/736 decades ago.
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airhansa
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Sat May 23, 2020 1:25 pm

VV wrote:


So does this mean that all of the former Bombardier employees outside Nagoya, Japan as well?
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Sat May 23, 2020 2:20 pm

alberchico wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:


The article says “300 outstanding orders” ...
Really ?
From whom ?


This might help.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubish ... Jet#Orders
Granted, I'm not sure how up to date this info is.


According to wikipedia source cited above, there are 160 firm orders with options for another 130 units of the SpaceJet 90,
of which SkyWest has 100 firm orders with options for another 100 units.
Unless SkyWest introduces its services independently, this order is under the same conditions of that they made for E175-E2.

Source: https://leehamnews.com/2019/08/26/ponti ... utside-us/

Excerpts:

"Embraer has deposits from Skywest, but these conditional orders are contingent upon Scope compliance and contract renewals from its major, partner airlines.

Under accounting rules followed by Embraer, these can’t be listed as firm orders. Slattery notes that Mitsubishi’s orders for 150 MRJ90s (now called the M90 SpaceJet) are also conditional under the accounting standards followed by Embraer, but Mitsubishi’s accounting standards must be different—for the airplanes are still listed as “firm” orders. (MITAC is not a public company and the accounting rules applicable to Embraer don’t apply.)

The E175-E2 and M90 maximum take off weights exceed the 86,000 lb restriction in the US pilot Scope Clauses."


Thus, orders for the SpaceJet 90 would be reduced to 67 units plus 30 options, totaling 97 units, far from the "300 outstanding orders" mentioned in the Nikkey Asian´s article.

As for the 50 units + 50 options for the SpaceJet 100 destined for Mesa Airlines, we certainly won't see if they come to fruition anytime soon ...
 
Nean1
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 11:08 pm

Re: Mitsubishi SpaceJet — Flight Test & Production Thread

Sat May 23, 2020 4:09 pm

Noshow wrote:
Couldn't they somehow form a joint venture with Embraer?

Or somehow Embraer could form a joint venture with Covid19, maybe a clever choice?
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