• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 8
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:37 am

Engine has been certified:

ratt & Whitney has gained FAA certification for two variants of its geared turbofan (GTF) engine, the PW1200G and PW1900G.

The PW1200G powers the Mitsubishi Aircraft Corp. MRJ. Four MRJ90 aircraft are in flight testing in the US, while a fifth is conducting test flights in Japan. The PW1900G powers Embraer E-Jet E2 aircraft, including four E190-E2s and one E195-E2 aircraft that are currently in flight testing in Brazil.

The two variants are the third and fourth GTF engines to gain FAA certification, following the PW1100G powering Airbus A320neo family aircraft and the PW1500G powering Bombardier CSeries aircraft.


http://atwonline.com/engines/mrj-embrae ... tified-faa
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
ordell
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:33 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:12 am

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... gional-jet

Japan’s Mitsubishi Aircraft expects to see flight testing of its delayed MRJ90 regional jet accelerate this summer, as engineers work to complete the design changes that led to the most recent schedule deferral by early autumn.

Speaking with AIN just before the opening of this year’s Paris show, Mitsubishi Aircraft senior executive vice president and executive chief engineer Kishi Nobuo reported that the four flight test vehicles operating out of Moses Lake, Washington, in the U.S. have completed 800 hours of flying, and that, despite the need for the design changes, the program has achieved all of its early objectives. Kishi added that original plans called for a total of some 2,500 hours of flying, and that the need to relocate components and reroute wiring in the airplane’s avionics bay will add few hours to the total.

Mitsubishi now expects to complete most flight testing by the end of 2018, ahead of certification the following year and first delivery to All Nippon Airways in 2020. The new schedule reflects no fewer than five major schedule delays, which together have set back expected certification by some seven years since program launch in 2008.

The need for the design changes that led to the latest two-year delay became apparent after a company engineering review last autumn, when Mitsubishi determined that the original design did not properly account for “extreme situations” such as water leakage or an explosion in the area of the avionics bay.

“Last summer to autumn, we reviewed all the MRJs configurations [at] the aircraft level,” said Kishi. “We decided to change…for example, electrical component location…Frankly speaking, we made a conclusion that it would take less time to do the design change than thinking more about how to prove the safety [of] the previous design to obtain type certification.

“However, these design changes will not affect aircraft performance, fuel consumption, or functionality of systems,” he added. “We will be able to continue ongoing flight testing with the current test aircraft configuration and be able to obtain certification flight test data of performance, flight characteristics, etcetera for the type certificate. The design change will not affect aircraft structure either.”
 
User avatar
ordell
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:33 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:50 pm

JA23MJ is on her way to Paris, heading out over the Atlantic now. Looks like she needs to make about 6-7 hops.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ja23mj/
 
ITB
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:50 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:47 pm

Some good news for the program. Japanese media is reporting that Mitsubishi Aircraft is now endeavoring to deliver the first production frame to ANA in 2019 rather than mid-2020. At this point, nothing has been officially announced, but according to the president and CEO of Mitsubishi Aircraft, Hisakazu Mizutani, there are serious discussions and a push within the company to deliver the first frame in 2019. If indeed Mitsubishi is able to deliver the first aircraft in 2019, it will trim at least 6 months off the previously announced schedule to deliver the first production aircraft by mid-2020.

Mizutani also stated the design freeze for the wiring re-work is set to be completed this fall. At this time, there are at a minimum 20 engineers working on the issue; the company appears pleased with the progress. At the 2017 Paris Air Show, the MRJ90 will be on display only. There will be no flying demonstrations nor will the public or media be permitted to tour the plane. Also, Mitsubishi Aircraft is not projecting any new orders during the show, and, instead, will be focusing on affirming the plane's development and production schedule to prospective customers.

https://www.nikkan.co.jp/articles/view/00431890 (in Japanese)

http://www.sankei.com/west/news/170614/ ... 72-n1.html (in Japanese)
 
mxaxai
Posts: 1464
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:55 pm

No flights, no publicity? It seems that all those fancy displays by the other OEMs are for public amusement only. Certainly never heard of it helping them sell a product.
Maybe they want to stay out of sight in case further problems show up but even overall media coverage of the MRJ has been rather poor. Almost as if they lack a proper PR-department.


Aside: Just 20 engineers working on the major hurdle for certification, that has delayed delivery by at least 1.5 years? Seems odd, but maybe that is just standard procedures.
 
ITB
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:50 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:46 am

mxaxai wrote:
Aside: Just 20 engineers working on the major hurdle for certification, that has delayed delivery by at least 1.5 years? Seems odd, but maybe that is just standard procedures.

It's possible I may have interpreted the article imprecisely and should have been more careful in what I wrote. The 20 engineers referenced appear to be French engineers of a company that is working closely with Mitsubishi Aircraft on the re-wiring issue. At this stage, to be sure, there are hundreds of engineers and technicians, both Japanese and foreign, who are hard at work getting this aircraft through the certification process.
 
User avatar
ordell
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:33 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:12 am

It might be better that way. Too many cooks and all that.

Not allowing tours of the cabin is DUMB. That's its selling point. One person who got a tour noted the head room and comfort. No one is going to buy the damn thing looking at the outside. I don't know why they are even bothering then.
 
JA786A
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:11 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:29 am

ordell wrote:
Not allowing tours of the cabin is DUMB. That's its selling point. One person who got a tour noted the head room and comfort. No one is going to buy the damn thing looking at the outside. I don't know why they are even bothering then.

I'm pretty sure they'll deploy a mockup of the cabin again. Also, the article says that "Mitsubishi Aircraft is not projecting any new orders during the show, and, instead, will be focusing on affirming the plane's development and production schedule to prospective customers."

In addition, have a look at this article: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/opinion-why-the-mrj-should-be-at-le-bourget-436662/
 
User avatar
PW100
Posts: 4084
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:17 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:18 pm

ITB wrote:
. . . The 20 engineers referenced appear to be French engineers of a company that is working closely with Mitsubishi Aircraft on the re-wiring issue. At this stage, to be sure, there are hundreds of engineers and technicians, both Japanese and foreign, who are hard at work getting this aircraft through the certification process.

Let's just hope thy brough the correct CATIA version with them . . .
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
JA786A
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:11 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:27 pm

 
User avatar
ordell
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:33 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:41 pm

She looks purdy in ANA colors.

Image
 
r2rho
Topic Author
Posts: 3096
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:13 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:01 pm

The company has said that because the design change will not affect the airplane’s performance, fuel consumption or systems functionality, the four flight-test airplanes already in operation will continue their duties as planned and that certification data gleaned from those tests remain valid. However, it added it would need to add new flight-test airplanes to the program to test the new design. “We will make aircraft to test these design changes,” said Fukuhara


What is basically going on is that, systems-wise, the aircraft is uncertifiable as it is. Structurally, Functionally , etc the aircraft is fine. So they can perform all flight envelope, aerodynamic, performance, etc etc tests with the current frame, including certification. For systems, they can also use the "extra time" to perform tests in advance and work out software issues so they have a more mature software for certif /EIS - but none of the tests performed will be valid for certif. They will have to do/repeat all systems certification testing on one of the new reconfigured flight test frames.
 
ITB
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:50 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:19 pm

r2rho wrote:
The company has said that because the design change will not affect the airplane’s performance, fuel consumption or systems functionality, the four flight-test airplanes already in operation will continue their duties as planned and that certification data gleaned from those tests remain valid. However, it added it would need to add new flight-test airplanes to the program to test the new design. “We will make aircraft to test these design changes,” said Fukuhara


What is basically going on is that, systems-wise, the aircraft is uncertifiable as it is. Structurally, Functionally , etc the aircraft is fine. So they can perform all flight envelope, aerodynamic, performance, etc etc tests with the current frame, including certification. For systems, they can also use the "extra time" to perform tests in advance and work out software issues so they have a more mature software for certif /EIS - but none of the tests performed will be valid for certif. They will have to do/repeat all systems certification testing on one of the new reconfigured flight test frames.


This is a decent summary where things stand with the certification process of the MRJ. When the wiring issue was made public in late 2016, Mitsubishi estimated the fix would add two years to the flight test program, and delay the plane's commercial introduction by two years as well. Apparently, because the wiring redesign and the flight test program are going well, it now appears that two year period might be shaved to 18 months or even a year.

According to an 26 April 2017 Flight Global article (link below), Mitsubishi is projecting an additional 500 hours will be necessary to complete the MRJ's certification process. Whether one or two additional aircraft will be produced to complete the systems certification testing has yet to be decided. In all likelihood, they'll probably produce two new planes just to be on the safe side. At the time of the article's publication's date, the flight test program had accumulated 660 hours. By now, that figure is probably 750 or more. So, if the total flight test program is 3000 hours, taking into account the additional 500 hours, the flight test program is now at least 25% complete.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ts-436550/
 
ITB
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:50 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:32 am

Earlier this month on June 6th Mitsubishi Aircraft and the French firm Latécoère Interconnection Systems announced a contractual partnership (press release link below) involving the MRJ's re-wiring project. Latécoère, a major aircraft wiring contractor, will be assisting Mitsubishi with the development of the MRJ's Electrical Wiring Interconnection System (EWIS), and, further, will be involved in moving the aircraft toward systems certification.

This is likely the French engineering firm and the 20 engineers that I referenced in an above post. It appears Latécoère will be deeply involved in verifying the validity of the wiring re-design to ensure it conforms to certification standards. Mitsubishi Aircraft appears pleased that Latécoère is now on board, stating, “This partnership is a significant step towards resolution of the MRJ wiring design challenges."

http://www.latecoere-group.com/wp-conte ... DEF-UK.pdf
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:09 am

Close-up on JA23MJ at the Paris air show:

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/aerowebfrnet/status ... 9402876928
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Nean1
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 11:08 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:14 am

This is an aircraft without market and Mitsubishi group is leader in no relevant industry segment. Good luck for them.
 
JA786A
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:11 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:40 am

Mitsubishi Aicraft today released cabin footage of a flight test aircraft for the first time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3sWVRwofOA Image Image
 
ITB
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:50 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:18 am

Media and business reps are indeed being allowed onto the MRJ at Le Bourget. I stand corrected. The following article includes a photo of reporters lined up to enter the aircraft.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Compani ... rest-flags

Photos of the MRJ's flight deck and stripped-down cabin can be viewed at Flight-Report's twitter account (link below) with a June 19th posting. If someone has more skill than I getting those photos uploaded here, I'm sure it'd be very much appreciated.

https://twitter.com/flight_report?ref_s ... r%5Eauthor
 
c933103
Posts: 3964
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:47 am

ikolkyo wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Flightglobal visited the MRJ assembly line and published photos of FTA-5, FTA-6, FTA-7 and FTA-8 (first MRJ70):

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... io-436558/

Due to the latest delays, at least 2 additional test aircraft will be needed.


FTA-8 really doesn't look like a MRJ70 to me, honestly none of them do but if I had to pick the one that looked like it the most it would be FTA-7.

KarelXWB wrote:
Well the article claims aircraft 8 is the first MRJ70.

Aircraft eight is the first MRJ70 variant to be assembled, but visiting media did not have a close view of the aircraft.


Perhaps FTA-8 is not aircraft 8?

That aircraft indeed does not look like shortened version (have attempted to count the amount of window on the side of aircraft, although the view for the aircraft is obscured but it is about the same amount as others...) but those are photo distributed by Mitsubishi noting it is the 8th aircraft and there are also powerpoint slides being phototaken that describe the 8th aircraft as MRJ70..btw http://www.aviationwire.jp/archives/118420 it seems like they are going to allow general public visit their factory starting from this fall.
What's the different between Russian settlement in secessionist territories in Caucasus/Eastern Europe, and historical Western settlement in colonial Africa?
 
c933103
Posts: 3964
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:14 am

And... Just saw an Nikkei article about MRJ, which claims there seems to be an altitude that it is ok if we aren't getting any order from the airshow within Mitsubishi, and they seems to consider it is better not to take an order if it include condition about possibly cancellation upon deferral.
(Note: The original Nikkei article was behind paywall but somehow the Nikkei Chinese version of the article isn't, and that's the version I was reading)
What's the different between Russian settlement in secessionist territories in Caucasus/Eastern Europe, and historical Western settlement in colonial Africa?
 
JA786A
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:11 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:13 pm

Photos of JA23MJ (taken by AviationWire http://www.aviationwire.jp/archives/122419):
Image
Image
Image
 
User avatar
ordell
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:33 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:38 pm

Well that's just brilliant, send the plane with no finished interior whatsoever. Not even one row of passenger seats.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:42 pm

Well FTA-5 is supposed to have a cabin but isn't ready yet.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
ITB
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:50 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:06 pm

ordell wrote:
Well that's just brilliant, send the plane with no finished interior whatsoever. Not even one row of passenger seats.

In all likelihood, Boeing did the same with 787-10, as did Embraer with its E2-195. Both aircraft models, like the MRJ, are still in the testing phase with cabins probably filled with a lot of testing equipment. Because JA23MJ didn't have all that much equipment on board, it's possible it's in transition to another phase of testing, awaiting the installation of different equipment. Maybe that's why Mitsubishi Aircraft chose this particular plane to bring to the Paris Air Show.
 
r2rho
Topic Author
Posts: 3096
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:13 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:15 am

Well that's just brilliant, send the plane with no finished interior whatsoever. Not even one row of passenger seats.

It is a flight test prototype, decidated to testing aircraft performance etc. It is very normal at this stage to not have a furnished flight test prototype, as this only comes towards the latter stages, for cabin tests and final validation before EIS, usually already in a near-production standard configuration.

The purpose of the MRJ's visit to Le Bourget was never to show off how fancy it is, but to show that the aircraft is "real" and flying, to provide assurance about the program.
 
ITB
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:50 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:35 pm

Came across a Japanese media report that features 39 high-quality photos of the MRJ at the Paris Air Show. Photos include the flight deck, the landing gear, wing, cabin, doors, etc. The man pictured in the next to last photograph is Yoshiyuki Yasumura, the chief test pilot for Mitsubishi Aircraft.

http://travel.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/ ... 66371.html
 
JA786A
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:11 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:51 am

JA23MJ is back in Moses Lake. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ja23mj/#dd9bf50
As of June 20, the test aircrafts have accumulated 940 hours, so roughly a third of the flight test program is completed. http://atwonline.com/paris-air-show-2017/mitsubishi-may-add-extra-flight-test-aircraft-delayed-mrj-project
 
mxaxai
Posts: 1464
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:22 pm

There's a couple of oddities I noticed with the MRJ at PAS, do any other aircraft have these? What would the advantages be?
Image
The flaps come with this extension under the fuselage. I'd assume it works like a winglet/wingtip fence for the flap, making it more effective? Nevertheless, it looks like an afterthought.
Image Image Image
There are these weird brushes around the gear. They are probably supposed to reduce the drag of the uncovered, retracted gear? But then why attach them on the inner edge of the gear well, where they can't really interact with the air stream.
Image
Do any other aircraft have the RAT in the nosecone? The usual place is the inner wing/wing-body-fairing, AFAIK.
(Click for larger version if necessary, these are my own images.)
 
User avatar
ordell
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:33 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:05 pm

JA786A wrote:
JA23MJ is back in Moses Lake. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ja23mj/#dd9bf50
As of June 20, the test aircrafts have accumulated 940 hours, so roughly a third of the flight test program is completed. http://atwonline.com/paris-air-show-2017/mitsubishi-may-add-extra-flight-test-aircraft-delayed-mrj-project


Wow, 6 hops to get home. And she took some out of the way stops, too (Exeter, Windsor-Locks).

Does all that time traveling count toward the 2500 hours?
 
User avatar
767333ER
Posts: 1149
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:14 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:12 pm

mxaxai wrote:
ImageDo any other aircraft have the RAT in the nosecone? The usual place is the inner wing/wing-body-fairing, AFAIK.
(Click for larger version if necessary, these are my own images.)

One other plane I can thing of for sure does and it's one that it looks extremely similar to, maybe even too similar to and that would be the E190.
Been on: 732 733 734 73G 738 752 763 A319 A320 A321 CRJ CR7 CRA/CR9 E145 E175 E190 F28 MD-82 MD-83 C172R C172S P2006T PA-28-180

2 ears for spatial hearing, 2 eyes for depth perception, 2 ears for balance... How did Boeing think 1 sensor was good enough?!
 
r2rho
Topic Author
Posts: 3096
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:13 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:53 pm

As of June 20, the test aircrafts have accumulated 940 hours, so roughly a third of the flight test program is completed.

Flight test hours are not an absolute metric - specially not in the case of the MRJ. It is simply an easy convenient number, so that project managers have something to track, and shareholders only need to view one slide.
To quote the two extremes: you can fly for thousands of hours and not get certification (ARJ-21), or you can do a textbook-case flight test program (A350).

as I posted above, these hours are useless for systems certification tests (though perfectly fine for other things, and for systems maturity).
On the MRJ, one FT hour is not always worth 1 FT hour - the hours on the new-build protoypes with the modified avionics will be worth more than the hours spent on current prototypes.
So, OK to track FT hours as a trend, in absence of anything else. But I would not automatically conclude that they are one third through.
Having said that, the fact that they are ranking up hours is good per se - in indicates the aircraft are not being stuck on ground due to reliability issues, instrumentation issues, or other.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:44 am

Leeham published a detailed article about the design flaws of the MRJ:

When MAC engaged Aerotec L.L.C. of Seattle to aid with flight tests and certification, the experienced Aerotec team began analyzing how the MRJ should be certified. They soon saw problems with the criteria for safety for avionics and its wiring. Damage from explosion/engine part penetration, water flooding (from a ruptured fresh waterline) and fire damage to the avionics and its wiring could cause single point of failure.

The separation of avionics functions and its wiring would not pass the tests in the two below deck avionics compartments in front of and aft of the wing. As an example, the landing gear controller, while being dual channel, had both functions in one box. One event could knock out the landing gear extension function.


https://leehamnews.com/2017/06/28/mrj-e ... ble-phase/
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
r2rho
Topic Author
Posts: 3096
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:13 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:54 pm

Leeham published a detailed article about the design flaws of the MRJ:
Thanks. It further expands on the infos that were published by Leeham for the first time back in march I think. Honestly... those are almost all noob mistakes. Common mode failures everywhere... a 15min phone call to any Western systems engineer with 5 years experience on a new aircraft program would've sufficed to point them out. I am really surprised MITAC was so blind and did not consult with anybody but, apparently, themselves...

What I also found interesting:
The present five test aircraft can finish all testing except for the tests that need final configuration of the aircraft (HIRF/EMI tests, Function and Reliability tests). MAC is building a sixth aircraft to complete such testing and to use for route proving tests. A seventh aircraft could be built if this would speed up testing further.

If it's really just that what is missing (sounds like too little to me to announce such a delay), then the current prototypes are more useful than I thought, and a lot of testing can be achieved with them. They re advancing at a good pace. It seems the 2020 target is maybe too conservative, they should be able to beat it. The aircraft seems to be pretty reliable.
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3252
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:12 pm

mxaxai wrote:
There's a couple of oddities I noticed with the MRJ at PAS, do any other aircraft have these? What would the advantages be?
Image
The flaps come with this extension under the fuselage. I'd assume it works like a winglet/wingtip fence for the flap, making it more effective? Nevertheless, it looks like an afterthought.
Image Image Image
There are these weird brushes around the gear. They are probably supposed to reduce the drag of the uncovered, retracted gear? But then why attach them on the inner edge of the gear well, where they can't really interact with the air stream.
Image
Do any other aircraft have the RAT in the nosecone? The usual place is the inner wing/wing-body-fairing, AFAIK.
(Click for larger version if necessary, these are my own images.)


The brushes are used to "seal" the wheelwell when the gear are retracted. They're used on airplanes in service currently, the CRJ has them as well as the 737. To address the RAT in the nose, yes, it's in that location on a CRJ as well.
From my cold, dead hands
 
Waterbomber
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:51 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:03 pm

r2rho wrote:
Leeham published a detailed article about the design flaws of the MRJ:
Thanks. It further expands on the infos that were published by Leeham for the first time back in march I think. Honestly... those are almost all noob mistakes. Common mode failures everywhere... a 15min phone call to any Western systems engineer with 5 years experience on a new aircraft program would've sufficed to point them out. I am really surprised MITAC was so blind and did not consult with anybody but, apparently, themselves...

What I also found interesting:
The present five test aircraft can finish all testing except for the tests that need final configuration of the aircraft (HIRF/EMI tests, Function and Reliability tests). MAC is building a sixth aircraft to complete such testing and to use for route proving tests. A seventh aircraft could be built if this would speed up testing further.

If it's really just that what is missing (sounds like too little to me to announce such a delay), then the current prototypes are more useful than I thought, and a lot of testing can be achieved with them. They re advancing at a good pace. It seems the 2020 target is maybe too conservative, they should be able to beat it. The aircraft seems to be pretty reliable.



When you run new desigs one after the other and are a like Boeing and Airbus very much "cousin organisations" to EASA and FAA, you are part of the legislative process and you set the standards together with the regulator. It's not hard to track changes in standards when you know what you have to deal with from the onset.
What I don't get is what is this explosion and flooding standard anyway? Which FAR/CS does it relate to? Sounds like a lot of bullcr*p considering that I don't think that grandfather rights should apply to old designs when a new risk is involved, while new designs are forced to deal with it. What was wrong with the MRJ that isn't wrong with other aircraft? I don't want to divulge sensitive technical information but the B737 also has a weak spot on it that would result in the aircraft's loss if a small bomb were to be placed there. The Egyptair A320 crash also shows that the A320 is very vulnerable too.

IMO MITAC should watch out, they could be taken for a ride by jobless engineers who need to cash in.
 
Waterbomber
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:51 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:26 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
There's a couple of oddities I noticed with the MRJ at PAS, do any other aircraft have these? What would the advantages be?
Image
The flaps come with this extension under the fuselage. I'd assume it works like a winglet/wingtip fence for the flap, making it more effective? Nevertheless, it looks like an afterthought.
Image Image Image
There are these weird brushes around the gear. They are probably supposed to reduce the drag of the uncovered, retracted gear? But then why attach them on the inner edge of the gear well, where they can't really interact with the air stream.
Image
Do any other aircraft have the RAT in the nosecone? The usual place is the inner wing/wing-body-fairing, AFAIK.
(Click for larger version if necessary, these are my own images.)


The brushes are used to "seal" the wheelwell when the gear are retracted. They're used on airplanes in service currently, the CRJ has them as well as the 737. To address the RAT in the nose, yes, it's in that location on a CRJ as well.


The airflow guide in the first picture is probably the result of a reduced wing fairing size that results in the flaps extending below the fuselage.
If you look at the MRJ90 from below, the intrados (bottom of the wing) is mostly flush with the bottom of the fuselage below the wingbox, alot like the Citations. This enables a smoother airflow on the intrados, as it results in a single big wing instead of 2 half wings, at least on the intrados side, reducing drag and increasing lift.
Where on the A320 the air is blocked from going sideways by the huge fairings, on the MRJ this would result in loss of effectivenes of the flaps and is hence corrected with a small airflow fairing. A small increase in drag against a huge decrease in drag from reducing the fairing size.
 
User avatar
ordell
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:33 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:22 pm

 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 2918
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:51 am

JA22MJ looks to be down with a PW engine issue.
Image
https://twitter.com/royalscottking/stat ... 9181796352
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:53 am

And JA24MJ has been spotted at Gateway Airport with a black nose.

Image
https://twitter.com/jetcitystar/status/ ... 5238366208
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:54 am

After JA22MJ suffered an engine issue, the entire MRJ test fleet has been grounded:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ut-440541/

Mitsubishi Aircraft has grounded its MRJ regional jet flight test fleet, following an engine "flameout" on one of its test prototypes on 21 August.

The Japanese manufacturer tells FlightGlobal that there was an "uncommanded shut down" of FTA-2's left Pratt & Whitney PW1200G engine during a test flight.


"After a quick investigation with the borescope, we confirmed that there was partial damage inside the engine. We're still investigating the cause," says the manufacturer, adding that a Pratt & Whitney team is also onsite in Portland, aiding with the investigation.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
ordell
Posts: 361
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:33 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:04 pm

Well so much for this story:

http://www.ifiberone.com/columbia_basin ... 3fa56.html

MOSES LAKE, Wash.- The Port of Moses Lake says Mitsubishi’s regional jet project is making headway. As testing continues for the four existing jets continues, two more test planes are expected to arrive at Grant County International Airport in the future. In addition, the 70-seat version of the MRJ is under construction in Japan and should arrive in Moses Lake for testing after. Port of Moses Lake Executive Director Jeff Bishop says the arrival of the planes means more project-related employees will move to Grant County.

“We could see as many as 60 to 100 more MRJ project employees with the arrival of the two more MRJs.

Bishop says the jets have been through a lot so far this year having gone to the Paris Air Show in June and a number of tests throughout the country. Testing so far this year includes: static strength, lightning, icing, cold and hot soak, high speed and flight load tests.

According to Mitsubishi's website, delivery of the MRJs have been pushed back to mid-2020. All Nippon Air will be the first customer to receive the new regional jets.
 
Waterbomber
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:51 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:30 am

KarelXWB wrote:
After JA22MJ suffered an engine issue, the entire MRJ test fleet has been grounded:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ut-440541/

Mitsubishi Aircraft has grounded its MRJ regional jet flight test fleet, following an engine "flameout" on one of its test prototypes on 21 August.

The Japanese manufacturer tells FlightGlobal that there was an "uncommanded shut down" of FTA-2's left Pratt & Whitney PW1200G engine during a test flight.


"After a quick investigation with the borescope, we confirmed that there was partial damage inside the engine. We're still investigating the cause," says the manufacturer, adding that a Pratt & Whitney team is also onsite in Portland, aiding with the investigation.


If it wasn't external like a bird strike, any damage that is detectable through a borescope inspection is serious.
If they grounded the entire test fleet, they must be suspecting something serious. If it's a design problem, this also affects the E175-E2 and worst case the entire PW1000G line-up.
PW can't catch a break.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:57 am

An inflatable tent has been put around the engine. Work is underway.

Image
https://twitter.com/jetcitystar/status/ ... 1518264320
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:52 pm

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
JA786A
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:11 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:38 pm

According to Mitsubishi, the damaged engine has been replaced but JA22MJ won't fly back to Moses Lake until they've more information on the cause.
https://airwaysmag.com/manufacturer/mitsubishi-grounds-mrj-fleet-engine-problem/
 
Waterbomber
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:51 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:43 pm

Those black spots by the cowling latches look like something leaked, collecting at the bottom of the cowling and leaking trough the rivet holes.
If this is engine oil and there is also damage to be seen on the borescope, I'll put my money on the shaft.
 
JA786A
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:11 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:40 pm

 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:06 pm

Yes JA22MJ is back in the air. That was a quick engine fix.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
kelvin933
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:20 am

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:11 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Yes JA22MJ is back in the air. That was a quick engine fix.

Did they fix the engine or just swap engines ?
“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.”
 
sharles
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:29 pm

Re: MRJ - Flight Test & Production Part 1

Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:14 pm

kelvin933 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Yes JA22MJ is back in the air. That was a quick engine fix.

Did they fix the engine or just swap engines ?

Does that really matter? It does not really impact when it can return to air. IMHO, what determines return to air is discovering the cause of the damage observed by borescope.
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 8

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos