LondonCity
Topic Author
Posts: 1069
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:57 pm

Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:55 pm

News is coming through via Aero.de that Air Berlin (which is partly-owned by Etihad) is scrapping all its 32 weekly flights into Russia next year.

In a way, the news isn't that great a surprise as loss-making Air Berlin is having to make economies.

But it means that many of the once numerous air links between Germany and Russia have or will soon be disappearing.

News item in German language:


http://www.aero.de/news-22663/Air-Be...rce=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5500
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:06 pm

I see only 3 routes:

DUS-DME
TXL-DME
TXL-KGD
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9784
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:30 pm

Last ops appear to be:
1/11/2016 for KGD
3/26/2016 for DME
 
factsonly
Posts: 2725
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:36 pm

Please also see this thread:

Easyjet To Cease All Moscow Flights (by LondonCity Sep 12 2015 in Civil Aviation)
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:39 pm

This shows a bigger problem for Russia as whole ... airlines are yanking out left and right. The economic sanctions are really starting to take a toll on the economy. But given that Putin runs the place with an iron fist, it's hard to picture there will be any meaningful political change anytime in the next 5 years. He's definitely trying to bring the good ole' USSR empire days.
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9784
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:00 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 4):
This shows a bigger problem for Russia as whole ... airlines are yanking out left and right. The economic sanctions are really starting to take a toll on the economy.

It's really that the currency collapse makes it too expensive for Russians to travel and Russia has done a very poor job at building tourism to their country...outside Sochi.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 5):

It's really that the currency collapse makes it too expensive for Russians to travel and Russia has done a very poor job at building tourism to their country...outside Sochi.

Their overly arduous visa process is definitely discouraging tourism other than those very determined ... like requiring your hotel to write letters of invitation to the country. So they want you to make a bunch of nonrefundable bookings before the visa process, then have the right to deny you the visa and keep your money ....

And seriously, other than traitors, who exactly is hoping to move to Russia by overstaying their visa ??
 
factsonly
Posts: 2725
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:10 pm

Continued from the easyJet thread in September:

Can we create a full picture of all airlines route reductions to/from Russia;

- BKK-DME cancelled TG Russia off-line
- HKG-DME cancelled CX Russia off-line
- FRA-VKO cancelled LH
- FRA-GOJ cancelled LH
- FRA-KUF cancelled LH
- MAN-DME cancelled EZY
- LGW-DME cancelled EZY
- TXL-LED cancelled AB
- MUC-DME cancelled AB
- AMS-SVO reduced from 6x to 5x daily SU/KL from W15
- JFK-SVO reduced frequency DL
- DME-AUH reduced frequency EY
- DME-DOH reduced frequency QR
- PRG-SVO reduced frequency OK
- HEL-GOJ suspended AY
- HEL-KUF suspended AY
- HEL-KZN suspended AY
- DUS-DME cancelled AB
- TXL-DME cancelled AB
- TXL-KGD cancelled AB
- VIE-??? cancelled OS
- VIE-??? cancelled Niki

Aigle Azur cancelled apparently as well.

Easyjet To Cease All Moscow Flights (by LondonCity Sep 12 2015 in Civil Aviation)
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:27 pm

Much ado about nothing, a handul of airlines exited some of which are going through issues such as TG, and a few routes dropped, if Russia is guilty of MH17 they should be dealt with, but finding some perverse delight in a post like above with that list is ridiculous.
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:30 pm

S7 keeps adding destinations abroad and may come out as one of the winners in this Russian shake-up. Although SU will no doubt get most of UN assets, there's been reports the government wants to preserve competition. That's especially relevant in markets limited to 2 airlines.
AB & S7 have been partners for years. Maybe S7 will step up its game and fill some of the void?
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9784
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:34 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 6):
Their overly arduous visa process is definitely discouraging tourism other than those very determined

Yes, their process is horrible. OTOH, the USA is probably worse than any other country.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 18641
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:44 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 4):

The airlines are pulling out due to the massive contraction in Russian GDP. Oil prices, sanctions, and the costs of fighting in the Ukraine and Syria are all having their impacts.

Without meaningful political change, there will be no backfilling.

The rate of Russian economic contraction seems to be accelerating.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5500
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:56 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 8):
Much ado about nothing, a handul of airlines exited some of which are going through issues such as TG, and a few routes dropped, if Russia is guilty of MH17 they should be dealt with, but finding some perverse delight in a post like above with that list is ridiculous.

You are forgetting the "elephant" in the room, which is Transaero. So Russia's 2nd largest carrier disappears and no one has any interest to take any route. For instance, London-Moscow has lost easyJet and Transaero.
 
Someone83
Posts: 4569
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:17 pm

SK is ceasing CPH-SVO March 2016. So this can be added to the list
 
LondonCity
Topic Author
Posts: 1069
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:57 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:22 pm

Another two cariers cutting some flights to Moscow are Air India and SAS.

Air India is about to halve the number of flights it operates between Delhi and Moscow.

SAS announced last week it would withdraw those flights it operates to Moscow services from its main Copenhagen hub in 2016.


http://www.thelocal.se/20151016/sas-cuts-foreign-routes-from-nordics
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5500
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:23 pm

And according to Wiki, Estonian Air TLL-SVO and Norwegian OSL-LED are being cancelled.
 
User avatar
ua900
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:14 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:36 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 7):
Can we create a full picture of all airlines route reductions to/from Russia

Exactly. It's not primarily an AB issue, but a larger one around the Russian economy suffering from the mini blockade staged in retaliation for Ukraine.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 6):
And seriously, other than traitors, who exactly is hoping to move to Russia by overstaying their visa ??

He didn't have a visa... he wanted to transit visa free through Russia en route to Cuba. He stayed at the airport in Moscow for more than a month and then they accommodated his situation.

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/...-russia-asylum-20140709-story.html

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 11):
Without meaningful political change, there will be no backfilling.

The rate of Russian economic contraction seems to be accelerating.

I don't think you'll see changes there unless Putin has a heart attack or something like that. When people bonk heads, civilian air travel suffers. Let's hope that relations will get better again and these connections will come back one day. Exchange of travelling public serves as a conduit for better understanding among peoples. That's one of the greatest benefits that the increased presence of commercial airlines has brought about.
2020: DEN | DFW | EWR | FRA | IAH | LAX | MCO | MUC | ORD | PTY | SFO | TXL
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5560
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:09 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 8):
Much ado about nothing, a handul of airlines exited some of which are going through issues such as TG, and a few routes dropped, if Russia is guilty of MH17 they should be dealt with, but finding some perverse delight in a post like above with that list is ridiculous.

Much ado about nothing huh?

Thats quite a list for nothing. I can only speak for the DL JFK flight which has been flown since the blue meatball was on the tail that wont be flying this winter

Quoting factsonly (Reply 7):
Continued from the easyJet thread in September:

Can we create a full picture of all airlines route reductions to/from Russia;

- BKK-DME cancelled TG Russia off-line
- HKG-DME cancelled CX Russia off-line
- FRA-VKO cancelled LH
- FRA-GOJ cancelled LH
- FRA-KUF cancelled LH
- MAN-DME cancelled EZY
- LGW-DME cancelled EZY
- TXL-LED cancelled AB
- MUC-DME cancelled AB
- AMS-SVO reduced from 6x to 5x daily SU/KL from W15
- JFK-SVO reduced frequency DL
- DME-AUH reduced frequency EY
- DME-DOH reduced frequency QR
- PRG-SVO reduced frequency OK
- HEL-GOJ suspended AY
- HEL-KUF suspended AY
- HEL-KZN suspended AY
- DUS-DME cancelled AB
- TXL-DME cancelled AB
- TXL-KGD cancelled AB
- VIE-??? cancelled OS
- VIE-??? cancelled Niki

Aigle Azur cancelled apparently as well.

Easyjet To Cease All Moscow Flights (by LondonCity Sep 12 2015 in Civil Aviation)
 
777way
Posts: 6470
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:38 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:30 pm

Yes ts much ado about nothing five airlines only and a few routes by others, TG and if I recall correctly Air Berlin too have issues that go beyond the Russian suspensions.
 
bennett123
Posts: 9117
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:10 pm

Do we know how profitable this route was?.
 
SelseyBill
Posts: 711
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:38 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:04 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 4):
This shows a bigger problem for Russia as whole ... airlines are yanking out left and right. The economic sanctions are really starting to take a toll on the economy. But given that Putin runs the place with an iron fist, it's hard to picture there will be any meaningful political change anytime in the next 5 years. He's definitely trying to bring the good ole' USSR empire days

.....which makes me wonder how on earth Putin still expects the world to fly to his country in 2018 for the soccer world cup ?

I know 2018 seems a way away yet; but in terms of traffic planning its tomorrow.

With games being played in Sochi and Volgograd; how are folks gonna safely fly out there to watch football games through skies which has seen MH17 blown out of the sky and cruise missiles being fired into Syria.

Just a shame that FIFA is in a bigger mess than Russia right now.
 
User avatar
Ty134A
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:21 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:26 pm

on the other hand it would be interesting to see the load factors on russian airlines on these routs, does anyone have insight? as far as i know, they don't seem to be too bad, but can't say more....

how is ukraine international doing, load factor wise?

but there is a real decrease in russian tourism abroad, and in countries depending on these, it can be felt double. on the other hand hopefully russia has learned that it has to be more independent from oil/gas exports and the more self dependent in all other parts of the economy.
flown on: TU3,TU5,T20,IL8,IL6,ILW,IL9,I14,YK4,YK2,AN2,AN4,A26,A28,A38,A40,A81,SU9,L4T,L11,D1C,M11,M80,M87,
AB4,AB6,318,313,342,343,345,346,712,703,722,732,735,741,742,743,74L,744,752,753,763,772,77W,J31,F50,F70,100,ATP,
142,143,AR8,AR1,SF3,S20,D38,MIH...
 
User avatar
Aeroflot777
Posts: 3167
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:08 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 4):
This shows a bigger problem for Russia as whole ... airlines are yanking out left and right. The economic sanctions are really starting to take a toll on the economy.

The sanctions are taking a toll on more countries than just Russia alone, Europe is hit as well. But this isn't the tell all. The primary reason Russians are traveling less is the value of the Ruble. With oil prices where they are, the Ruble takes a hit. It has historically before as well, albeit not to these levels. When things iron out, airlines will come back. Supply and demand.

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 23):
With games being played in Sochi and Volgograd; how are folks gonna safely fly out there to watch football games through skies which has seen MH17 blown out of the sky and cruise missiles being fired into Syria.

Folks are "gonna" fly there much like they are doing now, by boarding an aircraft and winging their way to the destination.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 18641
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:46 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 12):

The cuts, when the shutdown of Transaero is staggering. With an airline bankruptcy, we should see backfilling, not further cuts.

This implies the more pessimistic estimates of Russian GDP are probably close to accurate.

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 23):

The world cup access will be impacted.

Does anyone have a figure in the drop in flights?
The economy is certainly down:
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/russia-says-recession-hit-economy-113725848.html

"Moscow's Once bustling Airports decline" is an early in the year WSJ article on how pre-trans aero the Moscow airports were down 10%.
. I wonder how much the peak drop would be.

Big name airlines are cutting... CX, DL, Easyjet, the ME3 reducing, and bye bye Transaero.

Instead of a policy shift, Russia doubled down...

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 2366
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:28 am

This whole situation is making me really sad. We had come a long way in 25 years or so after the Soviet Union collapsed, but now we're going in the opposite direction again.
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 7020
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:32 am

Quoting Jano (Reply 19):
38 countries total, including some from Eastern Europe, e.g. Slovakia. Poland no, probably too many Poles overstaying....

These are the requirements for participation in the VWP program:

- enhanced law enforcement and security-related data sharing with the United States;
- issuing e-Passports;
- having a visitor (B) visa refusal rate of less than three percent;
- timely reporting of both blank and issued lost and stolen passports; and
- maintenance of high counterterrorism, law enforcement, border control, and document security standards.

24 EU countries participate, three do not (yet): Poland, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria.

We should all thank the USA for taking the initiative to make the passport a much safer and more easily verified document. The only other body, which might have done the same, is the EU, but they would likely have needed a hundred years to agree upon it.

It should of course have been the UN, but then 500 years would have been optimistic.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
sovietjet
Posts: 2672
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2003 12:32 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:12 pm

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 28):
- having a visitor (B) visa refusal rate of less than three percent;

Of course, since the refusal rate is pretty much entirely controlled by the interviewers at the consulate then the USA de facto artificially can decide which country can meet the VWP criteria. Even if the country meets all other requirements.
 
luckyone
Posts: 2884
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:32 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 6):
And seriously, other than traitors, who exactly is hoping to move to Russia by overstaying their visa ??

Russia has a significant problem with illegal immigration, it just comes from places that most Americans can't place on a map--mainly the "Stans"--and doesn't get much news coverage.

Russia has an estimated 4 million illegal immigrants, out of a population of roughly 145 million. Compare that to the United States' 10-11 million, out of 320 million.
 
runway23
Posts: 2305
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:56 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 7):
- BKK-DME cancelled TG Russia off-line
- HKG-DME cancelled CX Russia off-line
- FRA-VKO cancelled LH
- FRA-GOJ cancelled LH
- FRA-KUF cancelled LH
- MAN-DME cancelled EZY
- LGW-DME cancelled EZY
- TXL-LED cancelled AB
- MUC-DME cancelled AB
- AMS-SVO reduced from 6x to 5x daily SU/KL from W15
- JFK-SVO reduced frequency DL
- DME-AUH reduced frequency EY
- DME-DOH reduced frequency QR
- PRG-SVO reduced frequency OK
- HEL-GOJ suspended AY
- HEL-KUF suspended AY
- HEL-KZN suspended AY
- DUS-DME cancelled AB
- TXL-DME cancelled AB
- TXL-KGD cancelled AB
- VIE-??? cancelled OS
- VIE-??? cancelled Niki

Aigle Azur cancelled apparently as well.

You are also missing BA drastically reducing the amount of seats available on LHR-DME. Or for example LX who already transformed GVA-LED into a seasonal winter 1x per week service (down from 3x par week all year) or GVA-DME which went down from double daily to daily this summer.

All airlines are cutting left right and centre. I'd guess that those who remain at this point either live off a good hub & feed, or have strong O&D or are staying in it for the long term and accepting losses (most likely due to strict bilaterals). Another reason for airlines to hang on at this point is due to the fact that so much capacity has been cut that they must expect the yields to go back up at one point.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5500
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:29 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 26):
The cuts, when the shutdown of Transaero is staggering. With an airline bankruptcy, we should see backfilling, not further cuts.

This implies the more pessimistic estimates of Russian GDP are probably close to accurate.

That is my whole point. In recent bankruptcies (think of MALEV or Spanair, even in the midst of the Spanish crisis for JK), other airlines overnight announced new routes to fill most of the gaps. In the case of Russia, it is not only that no one is flling the gap but foreign carriers continue announcing cancellations like there is no end.
 
Cassi
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:19 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:32 pm

The only remaining question is, when will AB withdraw from Germany.   
 
User avatar
ua900
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:14 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 29):
Of course, since the refusal rate is pretty much entirely controlled by the interviewers at the consulate then the USA de facto artificially can decide which country can meet the VWP criteria. Even if the country meets all other requirements.

The refusal rate is driven in large part by people who file an application and then cannot prove / speak to one of the following:

The purpose of your trip;
Your intent to depart the United States after your trip; and/or
Your ability to pay all costs of the trip

This is applicable to people from poorer countries more than from rich countries. They get asked to prove that they have ties and means. If you have a nice house, a good size bank account, etc you have pretty good cards no matter what country you're from. And if a country continually moves up the ranks, as Poland for example has done, then it's only a matter of time before all criteria are met. Nothing artificial about it.

Quoting Cassi (Reply 33):
The only remaining question is, when will AB withdraw from Germany.

I think you mean EY dba AB and then you already know the answer. Had EY done with MA what they are doing with AB, AZ and JU then MA would have stuck around forever too. And had they done this with W6 instead of AB then W6 would be the 3rd largest carrier in the EU today, BUD would be a major hub and thorn in the thigh of FRA, MUC and VIE and AB would have disappeared a couple of years ago.
2020: DEN | DFW | EWR | FRA | IAH | LAX | MCO | MUC | ORD | PTY | SFO | TXL
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8094
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:26 pm

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 25):

Lol the Biometric Passport was an Australian innovation, and for several years Australia was the only country that issued them when all other states issued older style passports.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
SelseyBill
Posts: 711
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:38 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:05 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 22):
Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 23):
Folks are "gonna" fly there much like they are doing now, by boarding an aircraft and winging their way to the destination.

....thanks for that informative and insightful response.

What I was getting at is how are the people of Europe going to have any confidence in safe travel to/from eastern Russia when those skies are resembling a shooting gallery; and Russian military aircraft continue to nuisance the airspace of other sovereign countries.

Its time for the EU to unilaterally withdraw their teams from the 2018 World Cup until the skies are safe.

We owe that IMO as a minimum to those poor souls on MH17; some of whom were travelling soccer fans.......
 
User avatar
Ty134A
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:21 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:03 pm

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 33):
and Russian military aircraft continue to nuisance the airspace of other sovereign countries.

any source for that? maybe you mean the russian drone or the russian fighter jet flying into turkish airspace, which by definition of turkey now reaches deep into syrian territory.

oh, and at least russian aircraft don't murder hundreds of thousand of people by entering the airspace of a sovereign country and dropping their bombs based on a lie! but hey, who cares - its the good us and uk killing all those bad terrorists... maybe irakis think of this differently!

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 33):
We owe that IMO as a minimum to those poor souls on MH17; some of whom were travelling soccer fans.......

i think the world owes a lot to many poor souls, not only those of mh17! and trust me, the us and the uk can be glad that the world is as unfair as it is!

and for the list above, HG cancelled MOW a year ago, OS is still flying but the equipment of choice is more often an a319 rather than an a321.

will be interesting to see how SZG will develop this winter, last year UN brought a daily flight with a B747-400 on sat, sometime a B773...

here's a small video i made from my "skicharter" trip from VKO to SZG:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jTR7HMQLJI
flown on: TU3,TU5,T20,IL8,IL6,ILW,IL9,I14,YK4,YK2,AN2,AN4,A26,A28,A38,A40,A81,SU9,L4T,L11,D1C,M11,M80,M87,
AB4,AB6,318,313,342,343,345,346,712,703,722,732,735,741,742,743,74L,744,752,753,763,772,77W,J31,F50,F70,100,ATP,
142,143,AR8,AR1,SF3,S20,D38,MIH...
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 7020
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:06 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 32):
Lol the Biometric Passport was an Australian innovation, and for several years Australia was the only country that issued them when all other states issued older style passports.

I didn't know that. Good job, Australia!!! You can do more than deliver handsome and bright princesses.

Still I am pretty convinced that it was the USA who pushed the snowball so Europe (and many other countries) have biometric passports today.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
RIX
Posts: 1590
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2000 4:46 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:47 pm

Quoting Ty134A (Reply 34):
russian fighter jet flying into turkish airspace, which by definition of turkey now reaches deep into syrian territory

- then russian defense (or was it foreign?) ministry apologized for nothing. Funny guys are those russian defense (or was it foreign... or is there any difference?) ministry fellas.

Quoting Ty134A (Reply 34):
russian aircraft don't murder hundreds of thousand of people by entering the airspace of a sovereign country and dropping their bombs based on a lie

- so far russian aircraft murder hundreds because their supreme leader is in deep [stuff] after barbaric aggression against "brotherly" neighbor and is eager to save another supreme leader who, yes (unlike quoted rubbish), murdered hundreds of thousands of own people.
 
User avatar
HELyes
Posts: 1637
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:26 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:08 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 7):
- HEL-GOJ suspended AY
- HEL-KUF suspended AY
- HEL-KZN suspended AY


AY has axed GOJ, KZN KUF are operated except the spring break in February-April, SVX business as usual.

[Edited 2015-10-20 17:11:56]
 
factsonly
Posts: 2725
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:59 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 23):
The cuts, when the shutdown of Transaero is staggering. With an airline bankruptcy, we should see backfilling, not further cuts.

Not just the shutdown of Transaero, also the significant downsizing of UTAir .....see the video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gKnIheSd8E
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 2366
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:18 am

I wonder if Aeroflot will pick up the slack? I heard they'll take over parts of the Transaero fleet, but since other airlines are cutting back as well.. there must be a gap? Or are yields really that bad?
 
B8887
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:47 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:37 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 35):
I didn't know that. Good job, Australia!!! You can do more than deliver handsome and bright princesses.

I didn' know that too. Very interesting. Thank you.

SK will be reducing SVO too.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/10/21/sk-svo-feb16/

Regards.

B8887
 
User avatar
Aeroflot777
Posts: 3167
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:11 pm

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 33):
What I was getting at is how are the people of Europe going to have any confidence in safe travel to/from eastern Russia when those skies are resembling a shooting gallery; and Russian military aircraft continue to nuisance the airspace of other sovereign countries.

And what I was getting at is the fact that you speak in fact-less statements. "Those skies" do not resemble a shooting gallery. If you are talking about Ukrainian airspace over problematic areas, Russian carriers generally simply avoid the area all together, like they have been doing for many long months now. That will continue to happen. Other than that, hundreds of planes fly in that region daily and everyone is doing just fine. Southern cities in Russia continue to be serviced by airlines operating their regular schedules. A simple internet search will show you that.

Referring to Russian military activities in other nations... I suppose you can only trust what your media tells you. But I won't get into that because it always takes these threads into senseless directions.
 
B8887
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:47 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:26 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 41):
And what I was getting at is the fact that you speak in fact-less statements.

What is getting at is that there is a general feeling of uneasiness to travel to and from Russia now, and that's to put it nicely, and that reflects in a large number of airlines pulling out of Russia, which is what this topic is all about.

Regards.

B8887
 
User avatar
Aeroflot777
Posts: 3167
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:39 pm

Quoting B8887 (Reply 42):
and that reflects in a large number of airlines pulling out of Russia, which is what this topic is all about.

That is also incorrect. Airlines are not pulling out of Russia because there is a general feeling of uneasiness, who comes up with childish statements like that?

Airlines are pulling out of Russia because the Russian economy is down and the Ruble has fallen in respect to almost every currency out there, due to oil prices and other events. Russians are traveling less in the current environment and seats can't be filled. If seats aren't filled, routes are dropped or reduced until that demand comes back. This is simple economics here and nothing more. When the economy recovers, airlines will be back - they are businesses that are there to make money not bleed finances as their planes fly half-empty.
 
B8887
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:47 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:20 pm

Aeroflot, other events are causing the rouble to fall, and the economy to plummet and not the other way around. The most childish attitude of all is having no one but oneself to blame for misfortunes and then start throwing blame at others and other external factors.

You have no case. No court of law in the world would even agree to hear you, let alone rule in your favour. Drop it. Please.

Regards.

B8887
 
eielef
Posts: 716
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:07 am

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:40 pm

CSA is opening three new routes from PRG to Russia (LED, SVX and KUF) starting on December. Not all are bad news here.
Check for data on statistics on Pax movements in most/all Russian airports. They keep growing and growing and growing...
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5500
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:16 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 45):
CSA is opening three new routes from PRG to Russia (LED, SVX and KUF) starting on December. Not all are bad news here.

There is no opening of new routes; those routes are currently operated. The only thing I can see about Czech and Russia is that they are adding 1 weekly additional flight to LED, KUF, SVX, ROV. But on the other hand a small market like KUF has lost Lufthansa and Finnair has made HEL seasonal, so Czech is the only European carrier flying there now year-round. So Czech Airlines (which is a carrier that has quite a particular expansion plan, to say it shortly) is just capitalising in the fact that pretty much everyone is leaving the boat.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/busine...more-flights-to-russia/539778.html

Quoting eielef (Reply 45):
Check for data on statistics on Pax movements in most/all Russian airports. They keep growing and growing and growing... .

Growing negatively? I love your Russian enthusiasm...

http://www.akm.ru/eng/news/2015/august/20/ns5290910.htm

Quote:
Domodedovo airport 7-month passenger throughput down 6.9%
In January-July 2015, the passenger throughput of Domodedovo airport decreased by 6.9% to 17.417 million from 18.7 million for the same period in 2014, the company informed.

The passenger flow on domestic air routes grew by 12.5% to 9.285 million, the number of international passengers fell by 22% to 8.131 million.

In July 2015, the airport provided services to 3.683 million passengers (-4.2% year-on-year). The number of passengers traveling to domestic destinations increased by 14.9% year-on-year to 1.965 million, the number of international passengers was 1.718 million

In H1 2015, passenger throughput of Domodedovo airport decreased by 7.8% to 13.733 million from 14.9 million for the same period in 2014..
 
User avatar
Aeroflot777
Posts: 3167
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:44 pm

Quoting B8887 (Reply 44):
You have no case. No court of law in the world would even agree to hear you, let alone rule in your favour. Drop it. Please.

It's not about having a case. World politics is played by big leaders acting in their own self-interest, always has, always will. In the current scope, Russia is the target for many reasons. I'm not choosing sides here at all, but always encourage everyone to do their own unbiased research on what goes on these days. But instead most people just read news that's readily accessible and in front of their nose, just like every political leader wants them to.

It's always nice to have educated conversations with people who form their own opinions. I've had some pleasant exchanges with folks from the US and Western Europe recently who seem to see right through their media's brainwashing. Same with Russians who see beyond what is spread in Russian propaganda. Those are the most stimulating discussions - sad we can't have those on this forum.
 
B8887
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:47 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:22 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 47):
World politics is played by big leaders acting in their own self-interest, always has, always wil

Airlines are not politicians or politics.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 47):
Those are the most stimulating discussions - sad we can't have those on this forum.

Of course we don't. You are the only one fueling them.

Regards.

B8887
 
factsonly
Posts: 2725
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: Air Berlin To Withdraw From Russia

Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:39 am

Can we create a full picture of all airlines route reductions to/from Russia;

- BKK-DME cancelled TG Russia off-line
- HKG-DME cancelled CX Russia off-line
- FRA-VKO cancelled LH
- FRA-GOJ cancelled LH
- FRA-KUF cancelled LH
- MAN-DME cancelled EZY
- LGW-DME cancelled EZY
- TXL-LED cancelled AB
- MUC-DME cancelled AB
- AMS-SVO reduced from 6x to 5x daily SU/KL from W15
- JFK-SVO reduced frequency DL
- DME-AUH reduced frequency EY
- DME-DOH reduced frequency QR
- PRG-SVO reduced frequency OK
- HEL-GOJ cancelled AY
- HEL-KUF seasonal suspension AY
- HEL-KZN seasonal suspension AY
- DUS-DME cancelled AB
- TXL-DME cancelled AB
- TXL-KGD cancelled AB
- VIE-LED suspended OS
- VIE-??? cancelled HG
- CPH-SVO cancelled SK
- ARN-SVO reduced SK
- TLL-SVO cancelled OV
- OSL-LED cancelled DY
- LHR-DME reduction BA
- GVA-LED reduced LX
- GVA-SVO reduced LX
- Russia-Europe cancelled UN
- Russie-North America cancelled UN
- Russie-Egypt cancelled UN
- Russie-Asia cancelled UN
- Russia-World downsizing UTAir

Any more news?

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos