User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 23967
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:51 pm

Much needed upgrade for its longhaul services, Hawaiian Air today at its media day event pulled the wraps off its rumored lie-flat premium product for its A330 fleet.

Reportedly 76-inches in 2-2-2 config

Courtesy of Crankyflier:

http://crankyflier.com/wp-content/uploads/Hawaiian-Cabin_FINAL1.jpg

http://crankyflier.com/wp-content/uploads/Hawaiian-Cabin_FINAL1.jpg

=

First aircraft to debut new cabin Q2 2016, with "most of fleet" converted by mid 2017

Revised A332 config will be 18/260 versus current 18/276.

[Edited 2015-10-19 11:54:07]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
northwestEWR
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:45 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:09 pm

I love the natural look and feel. Nicely done Hawaiian! Is it 2-2-2 with all aisle access?
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
User avatar
ua2162
Posts: 454
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:53 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:12 pm

Yes! It's about time. While their soft product competed well with other carriers internationally, the hard product was definitely lacking.

These look great. Probably some of the best seats serving Hawaii. Well done, HA!
 
ba319-131
Posts: 8298
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 1:27 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:16 pm

Good move, nice to get a decent product, beats the pants of what AA,DL & UA currently offer - DL in particularly sucks on the 753, lack of legroom on the bulkhead seats is just unreal vs the AA 321's.

Hopefully somebody can keep a track on rollout, might take HA to my annual trip to HNL.
111,732,733,734,735,736,73G,738,739,7M8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312,313,318,319,320,20N,321,332,333,342,343,345,346,388,CS1,CS3,I86,154,SSJ,CRJ,CR7,CR9,145,170,175,220
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 23967
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:18 pm

Here is another photo from CrankyFlier

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRs5OiAUYAAd4FP.jpg:large

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRs5OiAUYAAd4FP.jpg:large

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 1):
Is it 2-2-2 with all aisle access?

No as its traditional 2-2-2 as shown in diagram.

Question was asked and HA's response was that product was good for "couples and families" I'm not sure that is really much a selling point in the premium product race.

[Edited 2015-10-19 12:18:55]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2060
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:20 pm

I feel that the 2-2-2 configuration is fine for most of the markets Hawaiian is competing in.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
User avatar
airportugal310
Posts: 3505
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
I'm not sure that is really much a selling point in the premium product race.

Spend any amount of time up their like I do and its...you guessed it...families and couples!

I'm actually shocked sometimes at the amount of small children up in Business
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):

Question was asked and HA's response was that product was good for "couples and families" I'm not sure that is really much a selling point in the premium product race.

Apart from honeymooners and other leisure vacationers, I'm not sure what their intended market is. I can't imagine that HA's business class is regularly loaded up with business travelers...

You would think that they could be competitive that market trans-pacific to Japan and wherever else in the Pacific they fly...might require joining an alliance, though  
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
threeifbyair
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:44 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:30 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Revised A332 config will be 18/260 versus current 18/276

Will the new cabin occupy the entire forward section? The A332s currently have 3 rows of 2-4-2 directly behind F. If those go away, that's a loss of 24 seats but capacity is dropping by only 16 seats. That would imply another row of 2-4-2 is being added to the back of the bus somewhere.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
Question was asked and HA's response was that product was good for "couples and families" I'm not sure that is really much a selling point in the premium product race.

Solos can still do ok in the center 2 seats. I bet most couples would prefer the window pairs, which leaves 6 seats with aisle access and nobody climbing over you.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:34 pm

2-2-2 is hardly a deterrent for business travelers. LH, an airline very much focused on the business pax, installed brand new 2-2-2 in their fleets.

1-2-1 sounds excellent on paper until you realize how much extra floor space it takes up, and how much more price premium one need to command just to break even on a per floor space square foot basis.
 
User avatar
DolphinAir747
Posts: 1896
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:07 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:38 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
HA's response was that product was good for "couples and families" I'm not sure that is really much a selling point in the premium product race.

Except for Hawaii which is predominantly a destination for couples and families (there are solo business travelers but they are not the primary market).
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 23967
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 6):
Spend any amount of time up their like I do and its...you guessed it...families and couples!
I'm actually shocked sometimes at the amount of small children up in Business

Must be a Hawaii thing.

I don't think I've flown in economy in more than a year and a half. My last 6 flights over last 2-weeks, I don't recall any couples and certainly no kids up front.

While 2-2-2 might work for Hawaii, or atleast is a good compromise maybe, its not the current trend in premium airline seating which is very much focused on direct aisle access products.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3708
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:54 pm

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 1):
Nicely done Hawaiian! Is it 2-2-2 with all aisle access?
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
No as its traditional 2-2-2 as shown in diagram

Actually... I believe the window seats will have aisle access. AFAIK, in talking to several members of the product development team, this was a goal in the process, due to the typical guest make up. If you look closely, you can see the window seats in the picture are slightly staggered. This seat out of the box from the manufacturer would not normally have aisle access, but since it was customized for HAL, they found a solution. I believe this will solve the problem and give access.

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 8):
Will the new cabin occupy the entire forward section?

The rendering looks like it will take up a large portion of the area between doors 1 and 2, leaving a little room for I'm guessing 2 rows of Extra Comfort. My guess is that they'll add rows of Extra Comfort seats. The product has been wildly popular that I doubt they'll shrink the EC seat count.

Update... apparently LOTS of Extra Comfort seats will be added. New configuration will be 18/68/192.

I'm so happy this is FINALLY public and we can talk about it!

[Edited 2015-10-19 13:05:21]
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 23967
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:07 pm

Here is ATW story
http://atwonline.com/airframes/hawai...30-cabins-adding-18-lie-flat-seats

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 12):
Actually... I believe the window seats will have aisle access. AFAIK, in talking to several members of the product development team, this was a goal in the process, due to the typical guest make up. If you look closely, you can see the window seats in the picture are slightly staggered. This seat out of the box from the manufacturer would not normally have aisle access, but since it was customized for HAL, they found a solution. I believe this will solve the problem and give access.

Unfortunately not the case.

Media asked about lack of aisle access and was told that aisle access = climbing over seat mate.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3530
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:12 pm

Looks like the near perfect product for Hawaii. My only complaint would be desiring another row for 24 first. You would not want to lose couples seating to go all-aisle access. Besides, there's 6 seats there for singles if they desire. I really like the looks of this. Hopefully I'll get to try it.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4527
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:16 pm

Its a nice improvement, but like FJ and TN is only half a step by retaining 2x2x2 cabin.

Yes maybe this is enough for more leisure focus but comes up short on global scale.

I was hoping HA would have some truly leading as per their Pacific sales management I've spoek with they are attempting to be more aggressive attracting premium clients to route trips via HNL. In order to garner the premium client headed to Asia/Australia/NZ to/from US mainland they really need something strong to make up for the added stop beyond simply selling tickets cheaper as they must do today.
mercure f-wtcc
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:17 pm

The new LX J is probably the best compromise - a very large number of all aisle access seats, both in center and the "throne" seats at the sides, but still retain a few pairs of window seats for couples who actually enjoy sitting together (my parents being one of those), and manage to achieve much better floor space utilization.
 
HAL
Posts: 1773
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:38 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:25 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
Question was asked and HA's response was that product was good for "couples and families" I'm not sure that is really much a selling point in the premium product race.

As several have said here, a large number of people using the business class seats currently in the A330s are couples & families. I see that myself all the time when I deadhead on the planes. HA does NOT cater to the same business/first class traveler that is looking for ultimate comfort in a 1-2-1 seating arrangement. HA's passengers are almost all vacationers, often couples & families. Those who can afford it have wanted a lie-flat option on their longer flights on HA, so I think it's a great idea to cater to what the actual passengers want rather than some A.net dream of everyone having the equal of SQ or EK.

Yes, some other airlines have fancier seats going to Hawaii. Those airlines also use the same planes on more business oriented flights elsewhere in their system, so it makes sense to have the fancier product when those planes go to Hawaii. But HA is nothing but Hawaii/leisure travel, so the 2-2-2 lie-flats make perfect sense.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3708
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:25 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Must be a Hawaii thing.

Well yeah... it is a Hawaiian thing, after all, it is HAWAIIAN Airlines. One cannot compare HAL to the rest of the industry. It would be comparing apples to oranges. You don't think HAL knows who they're actually catering to?

And while they may not be direct aisle access in the sense one would normally measure, yes, there WILL be access. There will be space between the center armrest, the end of the "bed" and the shell from the seats infront to slip out to the aisle.

Watch this video and you'll see what I"m talking about. The top down view of the seat pair is from 1:10-1:20.

https://youtu.be/49p_0AykT2U

[Edited 2015-10-19 13:27:11]
 
User avatar
AA777223
Posts: 1073
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:12 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:47 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 18):
Watch this video and you'll see what I"m talking about. The top down view of the seat pair is from 1:10-1:20.

I totally see what you're saying! I was skeptical at first, but now I see it is a brilliant design. If you flipped the the two seats where they faced towards eachother, against the windows, it would give a nice wedge shaped passage that a window passenger could slip through to reach the aisle. I think a design like this could be a great answer to an airline like UA, that needs to update their product with aisle access, but wants to continue to offer a high seat count and density in J.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 9):
2-2-2 is hardly a deterrent for business travelers. LH, an airline very much focused on the business pax, installed brand new 2-2-2 in their fleets.

1-2-1 sounds excellent on paper until you realize how much extra floor space it takes up, and how much more price premium one need to command just to break even on a per floor space square foot basis.

I couldn't agree with you more. Like I mentioned above, airlines like UA still pull a good deal of revenue, even from their upgrade passengers by charging $500-600 each way, in addition to mileage for upgrades. A product like this allows them to continue to offer a lot of seats in the front, while still offering aisle access. I really like the design as well.

Well done HA!
A318/19/20/21, A300, A332/3, A343/6, A388, L1011, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, B722, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9, B743/4/4M, B752/3, B762/3/4, B772/E/W, B788/9, F-100, CRJ-200/700/900, ERJ-135/145/175/190, DH-8, ATR-72, DO-328, BAE-146
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1671
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:50 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 15):
Its a nice improvement, but like FJ and TN is only half a step by retaining 2x2x2 cabin.

Yes maybe this is enough for more leisure focus but comes up short on global scale.

I was hoping HA would have some truly leading as per their Pacific sales management I've spoek with they are attempting to be more aggressive attracting premium clients to route trips via HNL. In order to garner the premium client headed to Asia/Australia/NZ to/from US mainland they really need something strong to make up for the added stop beyond simply selling tickets cheaper as they must do today.

Hawaiian is not "competing on a global scale". They are a niche carrier, doing a wonderful job in the markets they serve. Their job (outside of intra island network) is primarily to carry tourists or VFR traffic to and from Hawaii. Business travelers do not make up a large percentage of their passengers and business passengers are the ones willing to pay the premiums to support a product that competes with the likes of Singapore, Korean, Emirates, etc. They also aren't aggressively going after the mainland to Asia/South Pacific market. Why would someone choose to change planes in HNL vs a nonstop flight on a Qantas, Air New Zealand, Air Tahiti or any one of the well known Asian carriers? It's not a market they will be wildly successful in unless, like Icelandair's US to Europe service, they offer some incentive to make a connection. That incentive would be a more affordable product. More affordable product does not make a good business case for reducing seat count to provide a more luxurious product.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
I don't think I've flown in economy in more than a year and a half. My last 6 flights over last 2-weeks, I don't recall any couples and certainly no kids up front.

Being exposed to the F cabin frequently, I see a lot of couples and kids in First Class. I guess it depends on the market but in vacation markets, it's the majority of the F cabin... IME
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3708
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:56 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 15):

I think if you look at the whole product, including ALL the details of todays announcement, you'll find the HA product has instantly launched itself to the front of the pack in the "world" it serves.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4527
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:03 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 20):
. Why would someone choose to change planes in HNL vs a nonstop flight on a Qantas, Air New Zealand, Air Tahiti or any one of the well known Asian carriers?

Go ask HA. I'm just relaying fact sales teams have been pushing such business and now file through premium fares in virtually all their US Mainland - international markets.

I suspect they would like a pie of top dollar traffic, same reason why folks like TN and FJ try to attract similar traffic over their 1-stop hubs.
mercure f-wtcc
 
threeifbyair
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:44 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:37 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 12):
The rendering looks like it will take up a large portion of the area between doors 1 and 2, leaving a little room for I'm guessing 2 rows of Extra Comfort. My guess is that they'll add rows of Extra Comfort seats. The product has been wildly popular that I doubt they'll shrink the EC seat count.

Update... apparently LOTS of Extra Comfort seats will be added. New configuration will be 18/68/192.

Holy cow. That's a lot of Extra Comfort seats. More like UA in that respect.

This begs the question even more - how does this all fit? Pitch would seemingly need to shrink for regular Y to allow this.
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5576
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:54 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 7):
I can't imagine that HA's business class is regularly loaded up with business travelers...
Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 10):
Except for Hawaii which is predominantly a destination for couples and families (there are solo business travelers but they are not the primary market).

I agree HA's main traffic is not Business travelelrs, but as the highest producing travel agent for 2 years running at the largest locally owned travel company in Hawaii duing the mid 90's,

I can tell you that those business men that travel with the big companies in Hawaii, do fly HA & pay premium fares to do so.

Think about the big Banks & Hospitals & Clinics that send Dr's all over the Pacific to various parts of the vast Pacific rim, when those guys fly, they fly with the same carrier they fly Inter Island on HA. This is their hometown airline & since HA goes n/s to more places locals want to go, they ask for HA first.

Quoting HAL (Reply 17):
HA does NOT cater to the same business/first class traveler that is looking for ultimate comfort in a 1-2-1 seating arrangement. HA's passengers are almost all vacationers, often couples & families.

HA did enjoy the lions share of business travel out of Hawaii, which I fully agree is not that much, but HA is the hometown carrier, they locals do love HA & why not? HA is wonderful, this enhancement will be a nice upgrade for that part of the local travelling population.

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 20):
Business travelers do not make up a large percentage of their passengers and business passengers are the ones willing to pay the premiums to support a product


When I am on AS to Hawaii, usually in F, the amount of people that I meet that are on business is amazing, it's every flight I'm on, but the cabin can be half on business, half on vacation, like me.

When I lived in Hawaii & we traveled for business we flew HA or AQ, because of the business relationship that we enjoyed being such a large locally owned travel company. Local ties run strong much like Alaska.

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 23):
This begs the question even more - how does this all fit? Pitch would seemingly need to shrink for regular Y to allow this.

According to stats provided above, it looks like HA is removing 17 Y seats on the 332's to accommodate the new seating.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1671
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:56 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 22):
Go ask HA. I'm just relaying fact sales teams have been pushing such business and now file through premium fares in virtually all their US Mainland - international markets.

I suspect they would like a pie of top dollar traffic, same reason why folks like TN and FJ try to attract similar traffic over their 1-stop hubs.

I suspect they would like a piece of the top dollar traffic. Who wouldn't? They aren't aggressively marketing their connections to those places that I can see though. Connections to SYD require an overnight stay in HNL. Connections to either BNE or AKL are available 3 or 4 days a week. Their Asian destinations aren't competitive purely from a logistical standpoint. You have to travel 1000+ miles out of your way when connecting in HNL vs going nonstop. Sure, they want a piece of the pie. Are they going to get a significant piece of it, one worth spending valuable resources towards? No. I think Hawaiian's management is looking at their decision on what kind of cabin upgrades to go with from a realistic standpoint and not what they wish were to happen. They could deck out their planes with an Emirates A380 style product but the people willing to pay the prices to support that are likely not going to go out of their way to fly Hawaiian when there are good nonstop options. TN really doesn't market connections via PPT to AKL, though you can buy a ticket between the two cities. FJ may be the best example of a carrier that could reasonably market connections to the South Pacific but I doubt they're getting that much connecting traffic.
 
Prost
Posts: 2490
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:51 am

Other than Internationally configured aircraft from the US east coast to HNL, HA will further distance themselves as the leader of the pack to Hawaii from the US mainland. Hawaiian is truly a great niche airline, performing brilliantly, and anybody who suggest they should merge with anybody else should be forced to watch the Brady Bunch episode in Hawaii for their inflight entertainment as punishment.
 
User avatar
MarcoPoloWorld
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:37 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:09 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 16):
The new LX J is probably the best compromise - a very large number of all aisle access seats, both in center and the "throne" seats at the sides, but still retain a few pairs of window seats for couples who actually enjoy sitting together (my parents being one of those), and manage to achieve much better floor space utilization.

Precisely - for a cabin that may command $4k and above for a r/t fare, it needs to be an attractive proposition for anyone willing to fork out that kind of (revenue) for the airline, including couples and families.

The fact that many current business class configurations are LESS desirable than economy for pax in a party of more than one is a considerable issue.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3368
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:37 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 1):

You can't do 2-2-2 with all isle access. the outside units are window on one side. Unless they found a way to add an isle along each window
 
JHwk
Posts: 574
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:11 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:47 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 7):
Apart from honeymooners and other leisure vacationers, I'm not sure what their intended market is. I can't imagine that HA's business class is regularly loaded up with business travelers...

My United 753 flight yesterday had 4 kids in seats, two lap babies, and 2-4 solo travelers out of 24. Only 4 pax on upgrades.

It isn't like 5 years ago where 90% of the seats up front were upgrades or awards most days. Honestly HNL needs a better J product, good to see HA delivering. Might have to switch more flying to them when these come online.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2274
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:03 am

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 19):
Quoting azjubilee (Reply 18):Watch this video and you'll see what I"m talking about. The top down view of the seat pair is from 1:10-1:20.
I totally see what you're saying! I was skeptical at first, but now I see it is a brilliant design. If you flipped the the two seats where they faced towards eachother, against the windows, it would give a nice wedge shaped passage that a window passenger could slip through to reach the aisle. I think a design like this could be a great answer to an airline like UA, that needs to update their product with aisle access, but wants to continue to offer a high seat count and density in J.

Agreed. The design is fantastic. Really nice job on the parts of Hawaiian and Optimares.

To hyperlink the video, one must simply take away the "s" in the https:

http://youtu.be/49p_0AykT2U
 
ikramerica
Posts: 14963
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:07 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 30):

That's very true. With other carriers first removing true widebody F products from the Hawaiian market, then dumping widebodies altogether, HA stands out.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
afcjets
Posts: 2977
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:21 am

I think it looks much better than any 1x2x1 configuration any other North American carrier has. It is more spacious and the best part is there is not some huge waste of space table which is really just a cover for where the lower half of the passenger behind you is tucked into the sardine can. I also love how they really incorporated design concepts of the island rather than American saying they got their inspiration from luxury cars (as if any luxury car has drab gray cloth seat covers). It is very cool how the two seats in a pair have a different texture and pattern too, yet they still compliment each other.

[Edited 2015-10-19 20:23:46]
 
bioyuki
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:00 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:18 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 9):

2-2-2 is hardly a deterrent for business travelers. LH, an airline very much focused on the business pax, installed brand new 2-2-2 in their fleets.

1-2-1 sounds excellent on paper until you realize how much extra floor space it takes up, and how much more price premium one need to command just to break even on a per floor space square foot basis.

At least for me and my friends, it's a huge deterrent. I pretty much only fly airlines with direct aisle access whether it's 1-2-1 or staggered 2-2-2/2-3-2 like on JL. I avoid UA/LH/etc's traditional 2-2-2 like the plague since I want a window, privacy and direct aisle access.

Regarding, LH, I think they made a mistake with their A380 J product. 2-2-2 angled lie flat in this day and age? F that. Their 748 J product is better but I find the foot cubby area to be awkward as hell when you're traveling with someone you don't know.

Back to this thread though, I think HA is probably the one airline where traditional 2-2-2 J works as the vast, vast majority of folks on those flights are not solo travelers.
Next flight: LX 39/564: SFO-ZRH-NCE
 
qf002
Posts: 3590
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:14 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:27 am

Quoting bioyuki (Reply 39):
Regarding, LH, I think they made a mistake with their A380 J product. 2-2-2 angled lie flat in this day and age? F that. Their 748 J product is better but I find the foot cubby area to be awkward as hell when you're traveling with someone you don't know.

LH recently finished rolling out the new seats across the entire fleet.

They've also partially rectified the footwell issue by angling both window seats away from the aisle which means they get their own footwell (same layout as UA) although the issue remains for the centre pair.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:37 am

Quoting bioyuki (Reply 39):
I pretty much only fly airlines with direct aisle access whether it's 1-2-1 or staggered 2-2-2/2-3-2 like on JL

Well, as long as someone is offering 1-2-1 to Hawaii, you're in luck.  

I think this looks great and is pretty much the best combination of premium and affordable that HA could have chosen. I didn't see anyone comment about soft product changes so I'm assuming either they remain the same or there's more to be announced at a later date.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 6934
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:50 am

I love it! It's so warm and inviting and the bamboo is an awesome touch!

But is that glass I see in the picture? Is that allowed in the cabin kr is it some kind of hard transparent plastic?
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
User avatar
Aeroflot777
Posts: 3166
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:03 am

Quoting bioyuki (Reply 39):
Regarding, LH, I think they made a mistake with their A380 J product. 2-2-2 angled lie flat in this day and age? F that.

I have flown LH's business class on the A380 four times in recent months and never encountered the angled seats in that time frame. Earlier than that, yes. But those old blue seats have been on their way out for a long time now. LH has already confirmed that all long-haul aircraft now have the new business class. So no problems here.

I don't understand what the big hooplah about 2-2-2 is. If LH can make it work successfully (it's a relatively comfy ride), HA should be a piece of cake. Big difference over the previous HA product and I'm sure the execs have done their pro and con analysis to know what will work for them. All the folks here that are self-entitling themselves to 1-2-1 exclusively, it's your choice. No one is making you fly with HA.

I think this is a wonderful change and wish HA the best of luck in the new product rollout.
 
SKAirbus
Posts: 1542
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:18 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:34 am

I suppose HA is primarily a tourist airlines and those seats will be sold to people who want to pay for them. Most business travel is likely through the likes of AA, JL, DL, UA etc etc.
Base: BRU
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:02 am

What a great upgrade! Now I'm REALLY hoping that
PHX will get upgauged from a 763 by the time I go in
Dec. 2016! But of course, not holding my breath  
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4527
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:06 pm

Article about new seats speaks about HA desire to offer better product for growing niche of 1-stop clients connecting from US mainland to its international markets.

http://www.briansumers.com/home/2015...usiness-class-seats-on-some-planes
mercure f-wtcc
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2061
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:37 pm

AS has a hard enough time competing hard-product with HA for premium full-fare passengers...this will make it even harder. AS will definitely have to undercut HA fares for FC seats to Hawaii.
 
afcjets
Posts: 2977
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:49 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 46):
Quoting HiflyerAS (Reply 47):

I doubt AA, DL, and UA will undercut fares from the West Coast to Hawaii but they also only have standard domestic F seats on these routes and will be nothing like these new seats on HA's A330. For that reason alone IMO they should install more than 18 seats, but especially since they are targeting more TPAC connections at HNL.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9728
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:17 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 48):
I doubt AA, DL, and UA will undercut fares from the West Coast to Hawaii but they also only have standard domestic F seats on these routes and will be nothing like these new seats on HA's A330. For that reason alone IMO they should install more than 18 seats, but especially since they are targeting more TPAC connections at HNL.

AA/DL/UA also have far more extensive networks than HA (DL/AA can get me to HNL in 1 stop, to take HA I would need at least two, with the first two flights on a different airline and the first flight to get out of town would have to be a legacy). They don't need to fully compete on hard product.

Also AA/DL/UA compete against TPAC connections at HNL with their nonstop flights, operated with aircraft with lie flats and full intercontinental service operating on generally superior schedules. HNL is, contrary to what many people here believe, not ideally located to be the "DXB" of the Pacific.
 
afcjets
Posts: 2977
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:34 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 49):

I am not suggesting AA, DL, and UA either undercut fares or replace F seats between the West Coast and Hawaii. I am merely stating HA will likely see a rise in demand for their F product from where I live which is a huge local nonstop market and that the upgrade in seats warrants an additional row of F/J IMO. They are also likely to get a tiny bump in TPAC premium demand as their fares J fares are often lower because of the circuitry of routing via HNL and previous inferior perceived hard product. In other words, I believe they will see some success in their goal of deliberately targeting TPAC.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Moderator
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:39 pm

The photos above are more like teasers, you cannot see the seat very good. Hawaiian Airlines selected the Optimares Maxima Plus seat, this photo should give you on idea on what to expect:

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRxU6FSUwAA-AD_.jpg:large
http://www.optimares.com/news.php?id=10
http://www.optimares.com/news.php?id=9
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2948
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:44 pm

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 20):
Hawaiian is not "competing on a global scale". They are a niche carrier, doing a wonderful job in the markets they serve.

An interesting thing, as I have noted in many of the when will someone fly London - HNL a friend of mine at HA has been telling me for the last 2 years that HA is planning on opening up a London route, my argument has always been that there is no way HA could succeed with it's current recliner seats going up against layflats from the other airlines, well I guess that argument goes out the windows, so now, does anyone see HA starting a London flight ?

I know there is a demand there, I have friends doing the LHR-LAX-HNL route all the time on BA/AA, in paid first, I can't see them going non stop, but maybe stopping in LAX or LAS ?
 
bluesky73
Posts: 518
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:36 pm

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:23 pm

Awwwesome! The first class looks great, fun and very Hawaiian. Well done HA!

Loved the HA A330 (385HA) when I flew to the beautiful islands of Hawaii back in 2013.

Looks like a perfect excuse for me and the wife to pay a return visit in 2017 

Aloha
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3368
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:25 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
Question was asked and HA's response was that product was good for "couples and families" I'm not sure that is really much a selling point in the premium product race.

I know a lot of couples that fly premium and ail like it overall. Mind you they will probably not like the reeds blocking there interactions.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3368
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:33 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 12):
Actually... I believe the window seats will have aisle access. AFAIK, in talking to several members of the product development team, this was a goal in the process, due to the typical guest make up. If you look closely, you can see the window seats in the picture are slightly staggered. This seat out of the box from the manufacturer would not normally have aisle access, but since it was customized for HAL, they found a solution. I believe this will solve the problem and give access.

You still have to step over and/or around the other passenger. Direct access is not "lets add a few more inches by the persons foot" and say direct isle access.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos