hiflyeras
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:57 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 55):
You still have to step over and/or around the other passenger. Direct access is not "lets add a few more inches by the persons foot" and say direct isle access.

Or get past them when they're 'lying flat'.
 
afcjets
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:52 pm

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 52):
An interesting thing, as I have noted in many of the when will someone fly London - HNL a friend of mine at HA has been telling me for the last 2 years that HA is planning on opening up a London route

Does the A330 have the range for a route that is 7220 miles? Western flew HNL-ANC-LON on the DC10 but it didn't last for long. The interesting thing is a flight via ANC only adds 30 miles compared to the nonstop.
 
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:54 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 57):

Does the A330 have the range for a route that is 7220 miles? Western flew HNL-ANC-LON on the DC10 but it didn't last for long. The interesting thing is a flight via ANC only adds 30 miles compared to the nonstop.

Could it, sure, just with massive restrictions, when the 350's start rolling in then yes, but that's why i'm thinking that it will make a stop in wither LA or Vegas if it does come to pass.
 
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Polot
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:58 pm

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 58):
Could it, sure, just with massive restrictions, when the 350's start rolling in then yes, but that's why i'm thinking that it will make a stop in wither LA or Vegas if it does come to pass.

HA no longer has A350s on order, they converted it to the A338 when Airbus basically all but cancelled the A358 with the A330neo launch.
 
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haynflyer
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:33 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 55):

You still have to step over and/or around the other passenger. Direct access is not "lets add a few more inches by the persons foot" and say direct isle access.

I think KarelXWB's picture in reply 51 shows how the outboard seat will access the aisle without having to step over the adjacent passenger.

Unlike most lie-flat seats, the footrest is not under the seat of the passenger in front, but it's own stand-alone podium. The outboard passenger then transits to the aisle between the footrest and the seat in front, just behind the video monitor. In the picture above, if the recliner seat is the aisle seat and the window seat next to it (upright), you can see that there is a decent amount of room to pass the reclined passenger without having to step over them.

This set up uses a lot more floorspace than if the footrest was under the passenger in front of you and it seems like a good idea if this is indeed the way it will be set up.
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azjubilee
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:11 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 55):


Quoting HiflyerAS,reply=56:

You still have to step over and/or around the other passenger. Direct access is not "lets add a few more inches by the persons foot" and say direct isle access.

You're right, it's not the traditional aisle access one sees in a 1x2x1 configuration. But as you can clearly see in the video as well as post #51 there WILL BE AISLE ACCESS. You don't have to step over anyone. You simply slip through the small area provided. It's not that big of a deal.

[Edited 2015-10-20 12:54:41]
 
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RWA380
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:24 pm

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 39):

What a great upgrade! Now I'm REALLY hoping that
PHX will get upgauged from a 763 by the time I go in
Dec. 2016! But of course, not holding my breath  

I'd suggest you don't hold your breath, HA's last 767 route will likely be PHX-HNL since the 767s go thru maintenance there. We go every November & next year we may take HA for the new seats if they are on the 332 fleet by then, on AS this time again. I had MVP Gold upgrades to use up by years end.

Quoting HiflyerAS (Reply 41):
AS has a hard enough time competing hard-product with HA for premium full-fare passengers...this will make it even harder. AS will definitely have to undercut HA fares for FC seats to Hawaii.

AS fares in F to Hawaii are much lower than HA's. I can fly mid-week in F paid for $499 a direction PDX-HNL on AS.
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northwestEWR
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:00 am

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 55):
You're right, it's not the traditional aisle access one sees in a 1x2x1 configuration. But as you can clearly see in the video as well as post #51 there WILL BE AISLE ACCESS. You don't have to step over anyone. You simply slip through the small area provided. It's not that big of a deal.

It looked possible but I still don't quite understand it--hopefully they release more pictures soon to clarify.
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azjubilee
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:46 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 57):

The released HAL pictures aren't quite at the right angles to illustrate what I'm trying to explain. Take a look at post 51 with the picture (HALs wont have the monitor) and also take a look at the video. From the top down, one can see space between the ottoman and the seat shell infront. Since the arm rest doesn't extend to the shell infront either, there's space to maneuver from the window seat to the aisle.
 
YXXMIKE
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:26 am

Look's like a great product and certainly interested in trying it out! Living in Scotland the trip to Hawaii has always been a hard one to get our heads around as the distances are just way to big so a potential long weekend in New York and then a direct flight to Hawaii with a proper business class product is certainly appealing!

the 2x2 business class product isn't bad at all to be honest; I fly AC a couple of times a year back to YVR from LHR and it's certainly not a bad experience...it's still possible to sleep but you just need to dress appropriately as it get's quite warm in the coffin!
 
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Pohakuloa
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:30 am

As alluded by jetwet1 and the numerous threads on the subject, my view on this is that it could be a step closer to HAL to potentially serve longer routes not currently served due to a/c range/configuration limitations as well as other factors such a visa restrictions.

New upgraded product across the 332 fleet also decreases the number of available seats per plane (18/40/236=294 to 18/68/192=278) by 16 seats. Not much of a reduction granted, but a reduction none the less. With the 321s arriving for west coast flying, the reduction in the 332s will likely not be missed. Only thing I don't know is what the weight difference would be in the 2 configs (current/future).

Further, it would not surprise me if the 338s arrive on property with a greater reduced capacity then the soon to be 332s. My guess would be something like 30/80/152=262, an additional 16 eat reduction (guessing, sue me!), for potentially lower weight, higher revenue in seats for longer range flights to include current and future Chinese routes, a potential thrice weekly European gateway, Hong Kong and maybe Singapore as well. Add the same config on a potentially connecting NYC flight on the connecting days from SEAsian flights, who knows. Thinning the density could be the ace in the hole that Airbus told HA they would need to allow the 338 to make it to Europe. The increased hard product would be yet another step at attracting European visitors to choose a potential non-stop over a 1 stop elsewhere. Most could agree that that would be a big issue to gain a customer base, that and NOT doing daily service.

Just some at home supposition here.... take this post with a grain of salt and a drink of your favorite beverage.

Respectfully,
Pohakuloa
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hiflyeras
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:57 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 56):
I can fly mid-week in F paid for $499 a direction PDX-HNL on AS.

Hot damn, that's a steal! I'll drive to PDX for that!
 
afcjets
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:43 pm

I wonder what the F seats in their A321s will be like.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:28 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 58):
The released HAL pictures aren't quite at the right angles to illustrate what I'm trying to explain. Take a look at post 51 with the picture (HALs wont have the monitor) and also take a look at the video. From the top down, one can see space between the ottoman and the seat shell infront.

I frankly don't mind the 2x2x2, but in answer to your post, I don't think what you say is true? The only picture where we can see that little tiny aisle access space is the stock image of the unmodified seat design. Even then, the space seams to be larger in the middle seats than the ones closer to the window.

HA ordered a strongly modified version of this seat, and pictures of the seat that are in reply 1 and 4, including the sketched seatmap in the latter, clearly do not show this space available.

Just an observation.
 
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:03 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 55):
You still have to step over and/or around the other passenger. Direct access is not "lets add a few more inches by the persons foot" and say direct isle access.
Quoting rbavfan (Reply 55):
Quoting azjubilee (Reply 58):
From the top down, one can see space between the ottoman and the seat shell infront. Since the arm rest doesn't extend to the shell infront either, there's space to maneuver from the window seat to the aisle.
Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 63):
The only picture where we can see that little tiny aisle access space is the stock image of the unmodified seat design

It seems quite clear in the photos here, and elsewhere, that there is in fact a passageway to the aisle from the window seat exactly as azjubilee describes. Very clever design. Not wide, but certainly wide enough for your legs to pass through. No need to step over the adjacent passenger.

[Edited 2015-10-21 09:07:40]
 
a380787
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:09 pm

It's not the 2-2-2 that bothers me at all, but that foot-stall area just looks rather cramped (and I thought the LH design is bad enough to have to play footsie with your neighbor)
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:10 pm

Finally a reason to fly to the islands from the UK, with connections. 
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Polot
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:11 pm

Quoting reality (Reply 64):
It seems quite clear in the photos here, and elsewhere, that there is in fact a passageway to the aisle from the window seat exactly as azjubilee describes. Very clever design. Not wide, but certainly wide enough for your legs to pass through. No need to step over the adjacent passenger.

I suspect some of HA's *ahem* larger passengers will have trouble squeezing through without disturbing their aisle seat mate.
 
azjubilee
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:55 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 63):
I frankly don't mind the 2x2x2, but in answer to your post, I don't think what you say is true?

Watch the video, you'll see the HAL seat and clearly what I'm talking about.

Quoting Polot (Reply 67):
I suspect some of HA's *ahem* larger passengers will have trouble squeezing through without disturbing their aisle seat mate.

Very true! However... the HAL seat does not have the monitor on top of the ottoman, therefore the passage to the aisle will be below the knee. It may take a little squeezing, but will still be leaps (no pun intended) ahead and way easier than the standard window seat access to the aisle. The one problem could be for a window passenger who is sitting next to an unusually tall person, whose feet extend past the end of the ottoman, which could then take up space in the little passage way to the aisle.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 62):
I wonder what the F seats in their A321s will be like

Not these. The 321's will have a standard FC seat, like most narrowbodies. I suspect however, they'll share very similar design features and elements.

[Edited 2015-10-21 12:01:17]
 
afcjets
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 68):
The 321's will have a standard FC seat, like most narrowbodies.

Their 767 F seats have footrests as do their current A330 seats, so I am not sure why they would downgrade to a standard narrowbody F seat since it will be flown in similar markets.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 56):
AS fares in F to Hawaii are much lower than HA's. I can fly mid-week in F paid for $499 a direction PDX-HNL on AS.

Not surprising, but didn't know it could be THAT low jeeez.

HA has made it known before they don't endeavor to be the cheapest airline flying to Hawaii so you'll never see it that low but one could wish I suppose

Quoting afcjets (Reply 69):
Their 767 F seats have footrests as do their current A330 seats, so I am not sure why they would downgrade to a standard narrowbody F seat since it will be flown in similar markets.

Genuine question for everyone...but do people actually like footrests? I for one do not, but I'm sure they have their fans
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
azjubilee
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:32 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 69):
Their 767 F seats have footrests as do their current A330 seats, so I am not sure why they would downgrade to a standard narrowbody F seat since it will be flown in similar markets.

Simple answer... Space. Putting the new lie flats into the 321 will take up way too much space. Remember, the primary audience for HAL are Main Cabin and Extra Comfort passengers. Too many premium seats, will take up room that should be occupied by the MC/EC seats. The premium cabins are an offering for those who can afford to splurge a bit. Further, a non lie flat product is absolutely competitive to the west coast, which will be the primary focus for the 321s. The 330s will see lots of west coast as well, but are clearly the airlines long haul aircraft and this new product is focussing on those passengers. Those who get the new product to the west coast, just have an even better product to enjoy.
 
panamair
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:38 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 42):
I doubt AA, DL, and UA will undercut fares from the West Coast to Hawaii but they also only have standard domestic F seats on these routes and will be nothing like these new seats on HA's A330.

Both UA and DL do have internationally-configured aircraft (i.e., with flat bed premium cabin seats) on some of their HNL routes. For example, UA operates a 744 and 764 on two SFO-HNL flights, as well as the 764 on EWR-HNL. Delta operates the international 763ER on one of its LAX-HNL flights, the seasonal MSP-HNL and JFK-HNL, and the A333 on ATL-HNL.
 
afcjets
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:55 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 71):
Quoting afcjets (Reply 69):Their 767 F seats have footrests as do their current A330 seats, so I am not sure why they would downgrade to a standard narrowbody F seat since it will be flown in similar markets.
Simple answer... Space. Putting the new lie flats into the 321 will take up way too much space.

I meant downgrade on the A321 F seat from what they have now on the A330 and 767, which are F/J seats with foortrests that do not take up much space at all, very similar to Virgin America ( but I think VX reclines more)

Quoting panamair (Reply 72):
Quoting afcjets (Reply 42):I doubt AA, DL, and UA will undercut fares from the West Coast to Hawaii but they also only have standard domestic F seats on these routes and will be nothing like these new seats on HA's A330.Both UA and DL do have internationally-configured aircraft (i.e., with flat bed premium cabin seats) on some of their HNL routes. For example, UA operates a 744 and 764 on two SFO-HNL flights, as well as the 764 on EWR-HNL. Delta operates the international 763ER on one of its LAX-HNL flights, the seasonal MSP-HNL and JFK-HNL, and the A333 on ATL-HNL.

DL has a Hawaii configuration for the 767 as does UA for the 777 and both operate a lot of narrowbodies on these West Coast to Hawaii routes, and American is 100% narrowbody WC-Hawaii. I was not aware UA brought the 747 back on SFO-HNL which is great!
 
azjubilee
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:58 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 73):
I meant downgrade on the A321 F seat from what they have now on the A330 and 767, which are F/J seats with foortrests that do not take up much space at all, very similar to Virgin America ( but I think VX reclines more)

When I said standard F, I meant, we'll likely see something similar to todays standard F/J seat at HAL.
 
panamair
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 73):
DL has a Hawaii configuration for the 767

I'm not talking about the domestic 763 that DL uses to HNL from time to time; there is a daily LAX-HNL flight that uses the internationally-configured flat-bed 763. They use it to send the aircraft to HNL for the HNL-Japan rotations.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:59 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 68):
Watch the video, you'll see the HAL seat and clearly what I'm talking about.


I see what you're saying, but it's a tight squeeze to get into the aisle:

http://s9.postimg.org/rxct65re7/Screen_Shot_2015_10_21_at_3_30_06_PM.png

[Edited 2015-10-21 16:05:00]
 
azjubilee
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:21 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 76):
I see what you're saying, but it's a tight squeeze to get into the aisle:

IMO, it's the best and really, only solution to the matter. 1x2x1 is not viable for Hawaiian for many reasons. Neither is climbing over your neighbor. I think what's they've come up with will work just fine.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:28 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 77):
1x2x1 is not viable for Hawaiian for many reasons.

Yeah, that's not my argument at all. 2x2x2 is just fine, and people who demand aisle access, in my opinion, are asking for too much in this case.

Even with LH's seat, I haven't found much discomfort sitting at the window.
 
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RWA380
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:28 pm

Quoting HiflyerAS (Reply 61):
Hot damn, that's a steal! I'll drive to PDX for that!

We had some MVP gold upgrades for the outbound, but our return we paid $499 for next month. But I do not think the AS F product & the HA F product compare very well.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 62):
I wonder what the F seats in their A321s will be like.

I've wondered this as well, I was going to expect that they'd be similar to what the 767's have currently.

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 68):
Not these. The 321's will have a standard FC seat, like most narrowbodies. I suspect however, they'll share very similar design features and elements.

I guess my next question would be, how many routes will see both the 332's & the 321's? Maybe LAX or SFO? Other than that I though the 321's would bring routes like OGG-PDX & KOA-SEA? IIRC, PPT is becoming a 321neo station wsith an increased frequency.

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 70):
HA has made it known before they don't endeavor to be the cheapest airline flying to Hawaii so you'll never see it that low but one could wish I suppose

HA doesn't have to be the least expensive, because they are the best. I'd gladly pass on flying my precious AS if I could get fares even close to that rate, but I'm glad HA can get the premium they can, because the experience is worth it.

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 70):
Not surprising, but didn't know it could be THAT low jeeez.

It's non-refundable & has penalties & restictions, but if you know when you are going & have travel insurance, it's fine. You still get the F class premium on the mileage.

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 70):
Genuine question for everyone...but do people actually like footrests? I for one do not, but I'm sure they have their fans

I enjoyed my last 767 F experience on HA Dec 2012, but I've been on planes where, my height wasn't conducive to the dimensions of the footrest & I ended up not using it because my legs started to go numb.

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 71):
Those who get the new product to the west coast, just have an even better product to enjoy.

Again, I wonder how many, if any routes will see both aircraft types & HNL-LAX seems like a market where that may happen. Then I guess the 321's will be good for free upgrades, but if you are paying then fly on the 332.

Unless HA decides to sell the 321's premium seats as J & the 332's premium seats as F domestically, that would be fair.
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northwestEWR
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:38 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 76):

That's a much better picture, thank you. I see what they're going for but that looks REALLY tight. I'm not sure I could get through there and I have average sized legs. Can't imagine anyone even slightly overweight being able to get through there.
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azjubilee
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:41 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 80):
That's a much better picture, thank you. I see what they're going for but that looks REALLY tight. I'm not sure I could get through there and I have average sized legs. Can't imagine anyone even slightly overweight being able to get through there.

It does look tight, but I think it will work fine. Obviously one has to sidestep through there, but again, it's a great solution.
 
F9Animal
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:41 am

So glad to see HA adding these! Let's face it, this will enhance a trip to the islands! I am kind of surprised HA hasn't done this a long time ago. Does HA serve free meals in coach by chance?
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afcjets
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:16 am

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 81):
It does look tight, but I think it will work fine. Obviously one has to sidestep through there, but again, it's a great solution.

Exactly, and if it is an issue for the rare business traveler flying solo to HI, they can always request an aisle seat, which 2/3 of the cabin are.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:51 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 82):
Does HA serve free meals in coach by chance?

They still do, except on that 2a LAS-HNL flight and maybe one or two others that I don't know of
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
azjubilee
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RE: HA Announces A330 Lie-flat Seat Product

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:45 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 82):

So glad to see HA adding these! Let's face it, this will enhance a trip to the islands! I am kind of surprised HA hasn't done this a long time ago. Does HA serve free meals in coach by chance?

It wasn't necessary "a long time ago." Yes, complementary meals in coach in all classes except for 4 domestic red-eyes (HNL-LAX/LAS, seasonal OGG-LAX and as mentioned "midnight madness" from LAS-HNL.) Meals are served in F/J on all flights as well as on all international fights.

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