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winGl3t
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Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:42 pm

It was released on Brazilian Press that LATAM will make the following changes to the network:

- New GRU-JNB route on 2016;
- New LIM-IAD route on 2016;
- GRU-BCN will be daily from June 2016;
- Cancel CNF-MIA route from March 2016;
- MAO-MIA will lose 1 weekly frequency (to operate 4 weekly in 2016);
- BSB-MCO will be a daily flight instead of 4 weekly;


Source (in portuguese only):
http://www.panrotas.com.br/noticia-t...b-orlando-e-mais_119979.html?lista
 
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gatibosgru
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:45 pm

Would love if they attempted GRU-BOS but that's wishful thinking.

Wish LATAM the best of luck!
@DadCelo
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:45 pm

When is the first aircraft supposed to roll out of paint?
When wasn't America great?


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eastern023
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:46 pm

LIM-IAD has been "rumors" for a long time. LP has had the authority on the route, but never dare to exercise traffic. I always thought of UA starting the route before LP, but I am glad to see these news. I suppose that this flight will originate in SCL perhaps, but who knows.

[Edited 2015-10-19 13:47:02]
AA will Rise Again!
 
SCQ83
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:48 pm

Interesting.

I assume that for GRU-JNB (already flown by South African) and GRU-BCN (already flown by Singapore) they expect those two carriers to fold up. As well as BSB-MCO against Delta.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:46 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 4):
As well as BSB-MCO against Delta.

JJ already flies BSBMCO; and Delta is only going to fly it for a few weeks before discontinuing in February.
a.
 
jfk777
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:32 pm

J" Berg here come the Brazilians. SAA has flown to GRU for decades.
 
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Miami
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:59 pm

Fantastic news for expansion!

Sad news about CNF-MIA though.

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 1):
Would love if they attempted GRU-BOS but that's wishful thinking.

I wouldn't be shocked since BOS is on a roll..

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 2):
When is the first aircraft supposed to roll out of paint?

With the new livery?
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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Miami
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:00 pm

LAN Perú will also increase frequency on the LIM-MIA route to 17x weekly during the second half of 2016.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
airbazar
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:00 pm

GRU-JNB=About damn time!
What are connections like in GRU like for potential JNB-GRU-U.S.?
 
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Miami
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:02 pm

Press release - http://www.lan.com/en_us/sitio_perso...can-carrier-with-flights-to-africa

More info
-In April of 2016 TAM will add another flight on the Miami to Fortaleza route for a total of two flights per week

-Orlando to Sao Paulo route will operate TAM’s new Airbus A350 XWB starting in the second half of 2016 with seven flights per week instead of 11
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
MAH4546
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:10 pm

It's odd that TAM is still not really reducing flights to Miami or Orlando from Brazil, just shuffling things around.

In Orlando it's still two dailies, but four GRU flights move to BSB.

In Miami, it's simply shifting one MAO frequency to FOR and four CNF frequencies to BSB.

There's too much capacity between Florida and Brazil.
a.
 
C010T3
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:37 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 11):
It's odd that TAM is still not really reducing flights to Miami or Orlando from Brazil, just shuffling things around.

In Orlando it's still two dailies, but four GRU flights move to BSB.

In Miami, it's simply shifting one MAO frequency to FOR and four CNF frequencies to BSB.

There's too much capacity between Florida and Brazil.

LATAM doesn't know how to handle itself outside MIA, JFK and MAD. Santiago is still learning. They decided to stretch their legs in MCO, because it seemed easier than to understand the European market, which they relegated to European carriers. Now they have to live with it and wait for the US carriers to blink first.
 
a380787
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:37 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12):

That has been my sentiments too .... Only a very limited comfort zone. Rather surprisingly given that LATAM is the largest powerhouse of the continent.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:41 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 9):
GRU-JNB=About damn time!

JNB-GRU is among SA most profitable (read not -so-much-flying-at-a-loss) flight.
A second player on the route is going to hurt their yields, however, LATAM advantage will be the South/North American connections @ GRU while SA already are the African, Asian plus PER @ JNB,
Hope LATAM to JNB entice the airline to try GRU-CPT even GRU-MPM.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:58 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 9):
What are connections like in GRU like for potential JNB-GRU-U.S.?

It wouldn't make sense to promote JNB-U.S. via GRU. Typical fares JNB-GRU are usually slightly higher than JNB-U.S. Why would you want to fly them roughly twice as far as JNB-GRU for less revenue? Far more revenue to sell those seats to two different passengers JNB-GRU and GRU-U.S.

It's also further via GRU to many U.S. points.

Example:

JNB-JFK nonstop 6,925 nm
JNB-GRU-JFK 8,147 nm
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:42 am

Quoting winGl3t (Thread starter):
- New GRU-JNB route on 2016;

Sometimes SA JNB-GRU operates two daily flights in such route, in spite of the current Brazilian financial situation.
I had checked up to 10x weekly flights in March 2015 and bearing the JJ code on SA GRU-JNB.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
Prost
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:51 am

Why is the Brazilian economy in such poor shape? Is it commodity price related?
 
Okcflyer
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:40 am

What aircraft will fly LIM-IAD? Seems a bit too far for current gen A320s? Maybe a NEO once they arrive?
 
LGAviation
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:47 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 17):

Why is the Brazilian economy in such poor shape? Is it commodity price related?

Surely, that's a factor but President Rousseff's economic policies and widespread corruption also play a role.

Is there any chance to see a SCL-LHR service in the near future as this would brilliantly connect two major OW hubs or will the new LATAM try to channel all EUROPE to LATAM operations through GRU and if so what role will SCL have as an intercontinental hub?
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PATristar
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:21 am

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 1):
Would love if they attempted GRU-BOS but that's wishful thinking.

Makes more sense CNF-BOS because 90% of the brazilians that lives in BOS aerea come form MInas Gerais state where CNF is.
 
jfk777
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:39 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12):
LATAM doesn't know how to handle itself outside MIA, JFK and MAD. Santiago is still learning. They decided to stretch their legs in MCO, because it seemed easier than to understand the European market, which they relegated to European carriers. Now they have to live with it and wait for the US carriers to blink first.

If LATAM and AA are ever going to work together, LATAM needs to consider flying to DFW, ORD or CLT. United is the airline that flies nonstop daily from Chicago to GRU, does any one see anything wrong with this picture in Santiago or Sao Paulo ?

Here is your opportunity to fly to the American Midwest. Charlotte should also be on LATAM's bucket list as its in the middle of the east coast, hey if Usair could make Brazil work from there it shows a market exists. LATAM needs to go to the heart of AA well north and west from Miami, MIA will always be LATAM's main US gateway.
 
GRJGeorge
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:21 pm

Not all traffic between South Africa and the US goes direct, a big big portion goes via Europe (LHR,CDG,FRA,MUC) and even backtracking via the Middle-East (DXB,DOH,AUH,IST)

The routing JNB to most of the US via GRU is shorter than all those via Europe (not even mentioning Middle-East), so if they can provide a good option and easy transiting through GRU it could be quite attractive.
Also connecting at JNB to Asia and Western Australia is also good options, working with OneWorld partners Cathay Pacific to HKG, Qantas to SYD might be a stretch. Local partner BA/Comair also offering connections regionally from JNB.
 
LGAviation
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:57 pm

Quoting GRJGeorge (Reply 22):
Western Australia

I can't see a reason why anyone going to Perth would be routed via JNB. AFAI there's only SA and not QF service JNB-PER. Going to PER thus requires stops at both JNB and SYD. LATAM itself has service to Australia on SCL-(AKL)-SYD. Therefore, there is no reason for them to send anyone around the globe in the other direction.

Quoting GRJGeorge (Reply 22):
Asia

Unfortunately, there are plenty of other OW options for LatAm-Asia such as JJ/BA via LHR, LA/JJ/IB/BA via MAD and LHR, JJ/LA/AA/CX via JFK, QR via DOH. I don't see a huge market for connecting traffic at JNB.

The other way around, I see plenty of potential for the SA to USA market.
That being said, I'm glad to see another international long-haul for JNB although I fear that it might threaten SA s presence in the Southern TATL. Besides, is there any chance for SA to change its South American route to GIG (touristy plus since JJ left *A, there are not that many connections at GRU either way) or EZE (I know as discussed in the AKL-EZE NZ threat, there's not that much of a rugby connection between the nations, but anyways given the competition on JNB-GRU and Brazil's weak economy)
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PATristar
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:00 pm

IMHO LATAM should use JNB as a hub like RG did in the 90's where they flew to HKG and BKK. It's time to LATAM have flights from Brazil to Japan and China at least.
 
aa1818
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:15 pm

Quoting PATristar (Reply 24):
IMHO LATAM should use JNB as a hub like RG did in the 90's where they flew to HKG and BKK. It's time to LATAM have flights from Brazil to Japan and China at least.

Is there much demand between GRU and BKK and JNB and BKK? The route is currently not flown by anyone, so perhaps there could be some merit there.
HKG has CX (oneworld partner) and SA on the route which may prove to be too much competition; it may be better to codeshare with CX to HKG from JNB.
What about MNL and KUL, any demand between JNB or GRU and those two cities?

Cheers,
AA1818
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GRJGeorge
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:16 pm

I was saying working with QF to SYD but at the same time said it might be a stretch, it's just another option, 1-stop...while the journey from GRU via SCL and AKL is two-stops.
However my point is more on PER, that could possibly be done also in conjunction with SA, GRU-PER is shortest option currently via JNB, roughly 1000miles shorter than anything else.
I'm talking purely in distance and time and more available options. GRU-JNB-HKG is shorter than any other options (few hundreds miles via Europe and just slightly less than via Middle-East), so if timed correctly won't be much different if not better.
 
winGl3t
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:25 pm

Quoting PATristar (Reply 24):

IMHO LATAM should use JNB as a hub like RG did in the 90's where they flew to HKG and BKK. It's time to LATAM have flights from Brazil to Japan and China at least.

South Africa don't allow Brazilian carriers to have 5th freedom rights from South Africa to Asia hence RG didn't hold 5th freedom right on the route. They couldn't carry local passengers on JNB-BKK/HKG routes.
It would be suicide for JJ to try it with all the ME3+TK+ET competition from Brazil to Asia.
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:34 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12):
They decided to stretch their legs in MCO, because it seemed easier than to understand the European market, which they relegated to European carriers.

The push in MCO and increase to BCN makes sense as the market is big, the direct competition (by DL and SQ) is not that strong and these airlines don´t offer a hub at the other end to steal further traffic.
 
PATristar
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:28 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 25):
Is there much demand between GRU and BKK and JNB and BKK? The route is currently not flown by anyone, so perhaps there could be some merit there.

I didn't said that JJ should fly BKK I said that they should use JNB as a hub to Asia like RG did when they flew to BKK. There are market in Brazil for flights to Japan and China.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:34 pm

I don't think connecting South Africa - US via Brazil is that crazy. A lot of people would even fly with the ME3.

For instance MIA-GRU-JNB would be quite a natural connection IMO, given the strong presence of LATAM+AA in MIA. I think it is smart from LATAM as they could fill some additional seats in those planes now that the demand from Brazil to the US is weaker. If Emirates or Air France can, why not "the new" LATAM?

Also there is Comair in JNB, which is similar to BCN (Vueling). Both are not alliance hubs stricto sensu but they will allow connections.
 
incitatus
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:41 pm

Quoting PATristar (Reply 20):
Makes more sense CNF-BOS because 90% of the brazilians that lives in BOS aerea come form MInas Gerais state where CNF is.

There is just one catch with that: The Brazilians living in Boston are all looking for a very cheap fare and the convenience of a nonstop is not a big factor. CNF also lacks connectivity on TAM. Maybe, just maybe, TAM can make GRU-BOS work seasonally 3 x week. But that is about it.

I never understood why TAM stuck to CNF-MIA. It did not do well at first, so TAM adjusted schedules to make CGH-CNF-MIA work. CNF-MIA was functioning as overflow for GRU-MIA. And TAM's network out of CNF is really small compared to GOL and Azul. Beyond the regular Rio/SP/Brasilia, TAM has only BPS and SSA.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 21):
if Usair could make Brazil work from there it shows a market exists.

It is not there anymore. With a very healthy Brazilian economy, CLT-GRU can work, but it will take some five years for the economy to recover.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
descl
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:19 pm

I'm surprised they are launching GRU-JNB considering how bad Brazil is doing right now (and will do next year). Didn't know Brazil-South Africa market was so big to support up to 3 daily flights.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
It's also further via GRU to many U.S. points.

Example:

JNB-JFK nonstop 6,925 nm
JNB-GRU-JFK 8,147 nm

What about JNB-GRU-california?

Quoting OKCFlyer (Reply 18):

What aircraft will fly LIM-IAD? Seems a bit too far for current gen A320s? Maybe a NEO once they arrive?

Probably the 767-300.

Quoting lgaviation (Reply 19):
Is there any chance to see a SCL-LHR service in the near future as this would brilliantly connect two major OW hubs or will the new LATAM try to channel all EUROPE to LATAM operations through GRU and if so what role will SCL have as an intercontinental hub?

There have been rumors about BA or LAN starting SCL-LHR for years, but nothing has happened, and I don't think LAN will fly that route. They are comfortable with GRU as a transit point for SCL-Europe (and with LIM for the Americas).
Furthermore, KLM is a new player in the chilean market, and AZ will start a 5 weekly FCO-SCL next year, so new flights to Europe will probably saturate the market.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:54 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 31):
There is just one catch with that: The Brazilians living in Boston are all looking for a very cheap fare and the convenience of a nonstop is not a big factor.

I can imagine which airline those Brazilians in Boston are flying if looking for cheap fares. And if any of those are from the Minas Gerais state Uberlandia region, they'd fly via BSB.

Quoting descl (Reply 32):
There have been rumors about BA or LAN starting SCL-LHR for years, but nothing has happened, and I don't think LAN will fly that route. They are comfortable with GRU as a transit point for SCL-Europe (and with LIM for the Americas).

While the announced BA LGW-LIM-LGW might not be what the SCL-LON passengers wished for, is that BA flight going to bear any LATAM code-share?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
airbazar
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:50 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
It's also further via GRU to many U.S. points.

Europe or ME is a lot further. The vast majority of pax traveling between the U.S. and SA do so via Europe. Think about that for a second.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
It wouldn't make sense to promote JNB-U.S. via GRU. Typical fares JNB-GRU are usually slightly higher than JNB-U.S. Why would you want to fly them roughly twice as far as JNB-GRU for less revenue? Far more revenue to sell those seats to two different passengers JNB-GRU and GRU-U.S.

From that point of view it never makes any sense to offer connections and yet we have countless airlines selling connections.

Quoting lgaviation (Reply 23):
I can't see a reason why anyone going to Perth would be routed via JNB.

Really? Even though it's about 40% shorter than anything else available you don't see a reason?
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:55 pm

Quoting descl (Reply 32):
What about JNB-GRU-california?

That's actually not a bad routing. LAX-GRU-JNB is just slightly farther than LAX-JFK-JNB or LAX-ATL-JNB. Yields are a different question though--as Viscount724 mentioned above, why sell seats for the whole routing if you could get a similar (or higher) fare for the GRU-JNB (or LAX-GRU) segment alone?

Timing is another issue--chances are the JNB flights would operate like most other transatlantic flights, overnight eastbound and daytime westbound. That might work for connections to the US on the return, but there aren't many daytime flights from the US to GRU to connect to the outbound, and only the cheapest budget traveler would accept an all-day layover at GRU.

Bottom line, while US-JNB traffic could be some extra gravy, I doubt it's the primary motivation for the new route. However, connections within Brazil and the rest of South America should definitely help it succeed.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
tjh8402
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:02 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 10):
-Orlando to Sao Paulo route will operate TAM’s new Airbus A350 XWB starting in the second half of 2016 with seven flights per week instead of 11

An A350? Dang. Seems like a lot of airplane for a relatively short route. Don't they need the A350's capabilities elsewhere instead of a route that their 767s and A330s can easily handle? Will this be the first A350 service to MCO?
 
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Miami
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:07 pm

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 36):
Seems like a lot of airplane for a relatively short route.

MIA is getting one too.

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 36):
Will this be the first A350 service to MCO?

Yes.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
tjh8402
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:23 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 37):
MIA is getting one too.

I could understand MIA since its a OW hub, higher premium traffic, and likely a lot of cargo. I'm happy to see my hometown airport getting some love in the form of an A350, but just was wondering if a market that for Brazil is leisure and VFR oriented with lots of competition (including LCC Azul) is really the sort of market that demands LATAM's premiere new airplane. Plus, does an A350 really offer significant savings in operating costs on a route this short? Just seems like they would be better off deploying these to Europe or further points in North America where their capabilities will be more of an asset (not too familiar with LATAM's routes so dunno what sort of LH or ULH flights they have that they could use these on).
 
pierrelav
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:06 pm

Still no direct flights between NE Brazilian cities and the Pacific coast ( LIM-SCL) centers. LATAM still relies on its southern GRU hub, forcing passengers to fly long hours to simply connect while enjoying low cost mediocre services.
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:47 pm

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 36):
Don't they need the A350's capabilities elsewhere

Not from a technical point of view. LATAM does not need the range as they don´t operate any route that comes even close to being ULR

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 38):
I could understand MIA since its a OW hub, higher premium traffic, and likely a lot of cargo
Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 36):
An A350? Dang. Seems like a lot of airplane for a relatively short route.

Bear in mind that frequency to MCO is being reduced and I´ve read on businesstraveller.com that the configuration is really tourist heavy at 30J and 318Y. Compare to the 777-300 they operate at 56J and 323Y (This from JJ´s seatmap website, which is different from de 362/363 they list. But If I´m not wrong this was the old configuration before F was removed).
 
OB1504
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RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:47 pm

Quoting tjh8402 (Reply 36):
An A350? Dang. Seems like a lot of airplane for a relatively short route. Don't they need the A350's capabilities elsewhere instead of a route that their 767s and A330s can easily handle? Will this be the first A350 service to MCO?

Won't the A350 be replacing the 777-300ER? Makes sense that it would be deployed on routes that either currently receive the 77W or could use the capacity boost, and the A330s are on their way out.
 
descl
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:39 am

RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:14 am

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 33):
While the announced BA LGW-LIM-LGW might not be what the SCL-LON passengers wished for, is that BA flight going to bear any LATAM code-share?

Probably, but I don't think it's a beneficial addition if you consider BA code share with IB on MAD-SCL and with LAN on 1 of its daily GRU-SCL.

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 35):
That's actually not a bad routing. LAX-GRU-JNB is just slightly farther than LAX-JFK-JNB or LAX-ATL-JNB. Yields are a different question though--as Viscount724 mentioned above, why sell seats for the whole routing if you could get a similar (or higher) fare for the GRU-JNB (or LAX-GRU) segment alone?

Timing is another issue--chances are the JNB flights would operate like most other transatlantic flights, overnight eastbound and daytime westbound. That might work for connections to the US on the return, but there aren't many daytime flights from the US to GRU to connect to the outbound, and only the cheapest budget traveler would accept an all-day layover at GRU.

I've always read in this forum that the California-South America market doesn't have good yields, therefore it could be a good option if they need more passengers.
Regarding the timings, it looks like AA's LAX-GRU arrives at 13.40. A 5 PM departure from GRU to JNB would mean a 6 AM arrival. On the way back, a 12PM departure, would arrive at 6 PM allowing decent connecting time between these flights.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:25 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 34):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
It wouldn't make sense to promote JNB-U.S. via GRU. Typical fares JNB-GRU are usually slightly higher than JNB-U.S. Why would you want to fly them roughly twice as far as JNB-GRU for less revenue? Far more revenue to sell those seats to two different passengers JNB-GRU and GRU-U.S.

From that point of view it never makes any sense to offer connections and yet we have countless airlines selling connections.

Yes, but JNB-GRU has so little service you should be able to fill the flight with local passengers. That's no doubt why in a consulting project for the South African government I saw 3 or 4 years ago (the government was trying to decide what to do with SAA), JNB-GRU was their only profitable longhaul route at the time.

Diluting revenue by selling connections to the U.S. at probably a lower fare than to GRU would make no sense except for the occasional empty seat that couldn't be sold for JNB-GRU or for connections to other points in South America. To North America you're competing with many other carriers and connecting points which depresses the fares.
 
RAGAZZO777
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:33 am

RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:43 am

Quoting eastern023 (Reply 3):
LIM-IAD has been "rumors" for a long time. LP has had the authority on the route, but never dare to exercise traffic. I always thought of UA starting the route before LP, but I am glad to see these news. I suppose that this flight will originate in SCL perhaps, but who knows.

No, it will not. LAN Perú will operate the new flights to Washington-Dulles.
JESÚS, TE AMO !!
 
RAGAZZO777
Posts: 401
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:33 am

RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:44 am

Quoting OKCFlyer (Reply 18):
What aircraft will fly LIM-IAD? Seems a bit too far for current gen A320s? Maybe a NEO once they arrive?

They will most likely deploy a Boeing 767-300ER on the route.
JESÚS, TE AMO !!
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:56 am

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 28):
The push in MCO and increase to BCN makes sense as the market is big, the direct competition (by DL and SQ) is not that strong and these airlines don´t offer a hub at the other end to steal further traffic.

Delta at MCO came afterwards. BCN is much rather an attempt to match AR then to fight SQ.
 
Rafabozzolla
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:19 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 46):
Delta at MCO came afterwards. BCN is much rather an attempt to match AR then to fight SQ.

You have just made my point stronger on both accounts. I just don´t agree that JJ´s flight to BCN has anything to do with AR´s operation there, but rather an attempt to capture the wider Spanish speaking market from Chile, Argentina, Uruguay and maybe even Paraguay and Peru on its own right.

Not to mention Brazil itself. The Brazil-Spain market is big. Madrid is the quite possibly the leader in number of seats from GRU amongst European cities.
 
eastern023
Posts: 633
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:54 am

RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:23 am

Quoting RAGAZZO777 (Reply 44):
No, it will not. LAN Perú will operate the new flights to Washington-Dulles.

RAGAZZO777, please read the post, before blasting off... LP=Lan Peru. There is no doubt they are operating the route from LIM-IAD. The flight could originate in SCL as LP (Not LA).
AA will Rise Again!
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3100
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Latam To Start GRU-JNB, LIM-IAD. Cut CNF-MIA

Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:31 am

Quoting lgaviation (Reply 23):
I can't see a reason why anyone going to Perth would be routed via JNB. AFAI there's only SA and not QF service JNB-PER. Going to PER thus requires stops at both JNB and SYD.

South African flies both SA GRU-JNB and SA JNB-PER.
However, the flights are not properly timed.



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