Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2039
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:39 pm

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:42 pm

Quoting TheFlyingDisk (Reply 1):
Non-reclining seats, now.

Or start using sliding seats where the the seat slides forward instead of the reclining the backside.
Then you could get the pitch you want without interfering with the seat behind yours.

[Edited 2015-10-20 15:44:06]
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 7063
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:44 pm

Quoting YYZFAN (Reply 38):
My last long-haul in economy VIE-ORD on OS, the person in front of me asked me if they could recline for a few hours to take a nap. I was finishing up some school work, and said "I appreciate you asking. Could I get twenty minutes to finish up on my laptop though?", other pax "No problem, let me know when you're done". He was a tall guy from Austria, and very pleasant.

On this side of the pond it is becoming more and more common that people ask kindly the passenger behind whether they mind that they put back the seat. Like this Austrian guy did. Wonder whether this issue is in fact a side-of-the-pond issue?

I find it extremely rude to recline a seat without permission from behind. Never in my wildest dreams would I ever be so rude.

Anyway, over the years, since I am 6'2" I have suffered my part of sore knees due to this issue. Consequently I have studied a little what type of people the "offenders" are. To me it seems like 9 out of 10 of them are midgets without a brain. Those who have tried to get their knees squeezed, they know better.

Hopefully we can soon see the end of it. More and more airlines are finally understanding the magnitude of the blunder they made when they made 30" pitch with reclinable seats.

More and more airliners nowadays get non-reclinable seats. Funny thing is that it was the LCC's who were first with this improvement of comfort. A lot of so called mainline carriers just squeezed their old seats to match LCC pitch. Maybe they figured that they can make a business out of carrying midgets only? The hazzle of carrying tall passengers, better leave that to the LCC's, or what?

[Edited 2015-10-20 16:28:59]
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
RobertPhoenix
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:00 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:55 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 45):

In my many many years flying the only people I have ever seen get irate over seat recline are Americans!


I was thinking just the same thing. There is a culture difference. In the US people are always wanting to "Defend their space" or whatever they think belongs to them. You can see the same thing on the freeway. Don't use your indicator if you are about to change lanes. All that will happen is that the person you are going to merge in front of will immediately put their foot on the gas !

I personally have flown overnight to Europe too many times to count and I would hate to think of trying to sleep with no recline at all, and I can never recall being bothered by someone in front of me reclining. If you aren't supposed to recline, why on earth did they design seats that way ?

Of course, politeness should never be out of fashion. I'm not sure there is ever a polite way to strangle someone.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3583
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:06 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 21):
But it is also not fair to burden the passenger behind you with your discomfort, even if the passenger might be small and might even find acceptable comfort in the seat provided by the airline.

If the seat reclines you have the right to use the feature. How self centered, arrogant & me me me attitude to think I get to decide what features someone gets to use that they paid for. If you don't like the tight space, then PAY for more room for yourself and fly Coach plus, Comfort coach or what ever they call greater seat pitch on your fave airline.
 
B737900
Posts: 226
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:44 pm

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:20 pm

I love airplanes. I hate flying.
Sounds like a Beaver on floats..........we're saved!!
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:27 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 53):
If the seat reclines you have the right to use the feature. How self centered, arrogant & me me me attitude to think I get to decide what features someone gets to use that they paid for. If you don't like the tight space, then PAY for more room for yourself and fly Coach plus, Comfort coach or what ever they call greater seat pitch on your fave airline.

I couldn't agree more. I recline when I want to, not when it's convenient for the person behind me. I couldn't care less if you're 6'4 or 300lbs. If you need the space, pay for it. I have no empathy for people, with no FF status, who whine on here about their "leg room space" when I sit in an airplane all the time. Here are your options;

1. Fly More - Get better seats
2. Pay more - Get better seats

It's that simple.

atct
Trikes are for kids!
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3513
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:28 pm

Quoting tlecam (Reply 49):
I'm 6'2, 185. I try to be considerate of the person behind me.

I'm the same height and identical weight to you. My rules for reclining are simple:

If I'm flying from less than 90 minutes in a seat which isn't an emergency exit row seat I don't recline ever. I also make sure the person in front of me can't because my knees are in the way. If they have a problem with that tough because I can't move my knees.

If I'm flying for 90 minutes or more then I expect people will want to recline. So as long as you put it up during meal times I'm not fussed. But at the end of the day the "don't be a dick" rule still applies.

And bottom line, if you want more room and want to recline pay for business class.

Quoting Thunderboltdrgn (Reply 50):
Or start using sliding seats where the the seat slides forward instead of the reclining the backside.
Then you could get the pitch you want without interfering with the seat behind yours.

If you've flown Cathay Pacific in economy you know how damned uncomfortable they are. For short people fine,
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3583
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:29 pm

Quoting RobertPhoenix (Reply 52):
Don't use your indicator if you are about to change lanes. All that will happen is that the person you are going to merge in front of will immediately put their foot on the gas !

I hate when people do that.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3933
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:42 pm

Quoting uhntissbaby111 (Reply 37):
I flew KLAX-KORD-KLAX a few months ago on AA. Both ways it was on one of their newer 738s. And I noticed that their reclining seats only recline the upper half of the seat. So your tray table doesn't move, as it is attached to the stationary lower portion of the seat, and the seat doesn't move towards your leg. I think it was a pretty good design

   Articulating seats like this are the solution. When a person reclines in these seats, the part the cushion is on moves forward and the recline doesn't affect the usable space of the person behind.
 
spartanmjf
Posts: 514
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:31 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:43 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 2):
Agreed, for airlines like WN and other no-frills/LCC's. But that is no excuse for assault as is alleged here.

Time out here. As a Southwest flier who avoids traditional legacies where possible because of seating comfort I offer the following from an online source:

Southwest provides 31" with 2" recline.
Air New Zealand provides 30" - 31" in non premium narrow body economy.
United provides 31".
American provides 30".
Delta provides 30" - 31".
Lufthansa provides 30".

So - the point of the original post is?
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 7063
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:47 pm

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 56):
If you've flown Cathay Pacific in economy you know how damned uncomfortable they are. For short people fine,

I haven't flown on Cathay. But thanks for the warning.

But forward sliding seats doesn't automatically mean discomfort. Discomfort is a design choice.

Now Cathay is an Asian carrier, and Asian people are on average shorter than Europeans. That may explain why they get away with their seat design.

Remember, it took something like 30 years for the Japanese to build the first car which was suitable for adult Europeans. Let's hope Cathay catches up faster than that.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
User avatar
ua900
Moderator
Posts: 1576
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:14 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:56 pm

Quoting spartanmjf (Reply 59):
So - the point of the original post is?
Quoting richcandy (Reply 23):
But whats the answer??

The only answer that I can see if that the airlines keep reclining seats in economy and the pitch increases. Well the problem with that is that the airfare would also have to increase and people won't pay it. People have voted with their feet, they want cheap fares.

Accept the seat you bought. If it's too small for you, upgrade to Economy Plus or First Class. If your carrier doesn't have that, switch carriers.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 32):
We will see more of this as time goes on. The general atmosphere in economy cabins is getting increasingly worse, due to the ever-decreasing seat pitch & width, service levels, etc.

Yup, and passengers can opt out of all that drama. If you want more comfort, pay for the seat and/or extra legroom. If you somehow can't or won't because you must have a ticket that $20 cheaper then suck it up or don't fly.
2020: AMS | BRU | DEN | DFW | EWR | FRA | IAH | LAX | MCO | MUC | ORD | PTY | SFO | TXL
 
User avatar
flyingclrs727
Posts: 2589
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:59 pm

I normally don't have a problem with passengers in front of me reclining, and I'm 6'1, 230 pounds, but three years ago, I was on a UA flight from IAD to AUS where the jerks in front of me kept reclining their seats while we were approaching Austin and the flight attendants had announced that seats should be put in the upright positions for landing. As far as I was concerned, this was a potential safety problem for me if we had an emergency evacuation after landing. They must have put their seats all the way back at least 3 times after that announcement. Every time I would knock on their seats, they would put them up, then about a minute later, they would fully recline them again.

[Edited 2015-10-20 17:00:30]
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2420
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:00 am

Why was the FBI involved in this incident? Seems a bit extreme.
 
User avatar
flyingclrs727
Posts: 2589
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:24 am

On such a short flight, why not continue on to the destination instead of diverting? Both the origin and destination are in the same state, so the case will end up in a court in California anyway.
 
IMissPiedmont
Posts: 6199
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 12:58 pm

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:29 am

The last commercial flight I was on I think the seats reclined about 5 degrees in coach. And, I don't believe anyone used it. Not a great problem.
The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:04 am

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 63):
Why was the FBI involved in this incident? Seems a bit extreme.

Any time you cause a disturbance on a flight, it is a federal crime. The jurisdiction belongs to the FBI.
Trikes are for kids!
 
r2rho
Posts: 3096
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:13 pm

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:13 am

I guess most people on this site are either rich or flying on their companies' money - I am surprised at all the posts saying that you should simply pay more if you want more comfort - as if such a choice existed.

Ity doesn't. There is no progressiveness in the fare structure. The choice you have as a passenger today is between the new Y minus, paying twice the fare for a Y+, or much more than that for J, both offering services you don't need when all you wanted was some more legroom. With the exception of DL, KL, AY, who do offer you to pay 40% more for 25% more legroom, with no unneeded additions.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 9627
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:17 am

Quoting r2rho (Reply 67):
Ity doesn't. There is no progressiveness in the fare structure. The choice you have as a passenger today is between the new Y minus, paying twice the fare for a Y+, or much more than that for J, both offering services you don't need when all you wanted was some more legroom. With the exception of DL, KL, AY, who do offer you to pay 40% more for 25% more legroom, with no unneeded additions.

Exactly, Y+ or W today is much too close to an old J, in price and service. I would be happy with a normal Y with 33-34" pitch and some bearable food.
 
User avatar
AA777223
Posts: 1083
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:12 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:12 pm

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 7):

yah, if the person ahead of me reclines more than a couple inches... welp I can push it right back up with my knee. No need for any device.
Quoting r2rho (Reply 67):
With the exception of DL, KL, AY, who do offer you to pay 40% more for 25% more legroom, with no unneeded additions.

You can add to that UA and AA. Their prices are really nominal for economy plus, and they (especially UA) offer gobs of seats in economy plus. I have status; I always fly E+ or better. I don't feel badly about reclining, but still do so very slowly. No one every gets mad. Even if I didn't have the status, I could usually get an E+ seat for $20-30 domestic and $50-60 international. Given ticket prices, for most people, this should be a small percentage cost. I also find the articulating bottom a good solution, as the space you lose is in the length of your thighs, which if you're tall enough to need extra space, is where you probably actually be getting MORE support by essentially extending the thigh cushion. On the whole, I think it works. People are way too sensitive these days. I have only once had someone try to push my seat back up in my 30+ years of flying, and I put him in the D!CK category.
A318/19/20/21, A300, A332/3, A343/6, A388, L1011, DC-9, DC-10, MD-11, MD-80, B722, B732/3/4/5/7/8/9, B743/4/4M, B752/3, B762/3/4, B772/E/W, B788/9, F-100, CRJ-200/700/900, ERJ-135/145/175/190, DH-8, ATR-72, DO-328, BAE-146
 
ATCtower
Posts: 512
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:46 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:06 pm

Im really surprised so few have mentioned the length of the flight in their decision to recline.

Seriously, if youre on an hour flight from Denver to Vegas and cant go without reclining your seat youre just a jerk...

On the other hand tho, I took a few flights in cattle plus a couple weeks ago that were 12+ hours and I will be damned if I dont do whatever will make me comfortable and expect the same from the other passengers. I wholly expect the person in front of me on a long flight like this to recline and try to rest, just as I would, and the person behind me....

Only once on a semi-longer flight have I ever had an issue and it was KEF-DEN (8.5hrs). This length is still within the realm of wanting comfort and rest, I did turn to see if the guy behind me was on a laptop, as I do know reclining into one can seriously screw them up... Sure enough he was, I asked if I could recline and he was a complete ass and went as far as to sit up and wave his finger in my face saying no... My seat went as far back as it could. Said jerk called the flight attendant to tattle on me and she said it was my right and offered to relocate him to one of the 60 or so empty seats in the immediate vicinity to him, including the other two in the row he was sitting. After about 10 minutes of jerk being a jerk to the flight attendant and I, he obliged. (interestingly enough, to 'thank him' for his willingness to move one seat over, the F/A brought him a couple alcoholic drinks... Just what he needed right?)

It amazes me how people can be so stupid....
By reading the above post you waive all rights to be offended. If you do not like what you read, forget it.
 
eaglepower83
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:54 pm

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:27 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 58):
Articulating seats like this are the solution. When a person reclines in these seats, the part the cushion is on moves forward and the recline doesn't affect the usable space of the person behind.

Here here. I really LIKE the articulating seats on AA.
I feel like I get MORE recline too. And the person's seat in front of me "maybe" moves an inch at most toward me.
 
YYZFAN
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:16 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:42 pm

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 51):
On this side of the pond it is becoming more and more common that people ask kindly the passenger behind whether they mind that they put back the seat

I particularly don't mind since I stand at a statuesque 5'6". The only time I have an issue with someone reclining is if I was eating or trying to get my work done. Fortunately for me, I don't fly long-haul in Y any more, so this is no longer an issue for me.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 67):

I guess most people on this site are either rich or flying on their companies' money - I am surprised at all the posts saying that you should simply pay more if you want more comfort - as if such a choice existed.

The choice does exist. How does it not exist? If you can't afford it, the choice still exists, you just can't take advantage of it. As if this is the airlines fault? Either save up, make more money, or deal with that you can afford. The consumer has for over a decade now voted with their wallet and asked for the cheapest fare. The airlines have simply responded by offering the service at the price people are willing to pay. Now that more passengers are willing to spend a bit more for some additional legroom and comfort, we are seeing an expansion or introduction of Y+ products (such as AA MCE, Delta Economy Comfort, etc.).
 
User avatar
Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2039
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:39 pm

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:46 pm

Quoting uhntissbaby111 (Reply 37):
I noticed that their reclining seats only recline the upper half of the
seat. So your tray table doesn't move, as it is attached to the stationary lower portion of the seat,
and the seat doesn't move towards your leg. I think it was a pretty good design

It is. The seats on the Swedish X2 trains are of that type and have been since the train type was new-
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2420
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:57 pm

I like the idea of asking the person if one can recline their seat before doing so. I have been flying many years and when I do
recline my seat I do it very slowly and not all at once. Never had an issue with the person behind me.
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 7328
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:09 pm

Just a thought, if you use a service that the airline provides why are you at fault?  
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
bennett123
Posts: 9625
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Man Chokes Woman Over Reclining Seat.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:29 pm

Seems to me that a bit of curtosy will normally avoid any problems.

Always speak to the other guy first.

If you have a problem, speak to the FA.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos