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rbavfan
Posts: 3659
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:51 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 35):

Already a focus city for B6 & has been slowly expanding.
 
rbavfan
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Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:53 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 37):

That would be better via HNL vs PPG. But even better Asia-west coast & best Asia-florida-SA shortest distance.
 
rbavfan
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:55 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 39):
From North America, PPG is too far south to make it a viable mid-point for Asia.

But not for SW Pacific Islands. I was not recommending it as a hub for Asia.

[Edited 2015-10-22 17:30:07]
 
rbavfan
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:00 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 40):
The remoteness of PPG works against its ability to attract tourists without some sort of concerted effort to build infrastructure and market the destination.

As I noted using it as a hub to smaller islands in South Pacific. HA could offer the same thing they do in HNL. if you fly LAX-HNL-SYD. you can spend a day or 2 in HNL on the way there or back. If I want to go diving & boating I could fly LAX-PPG spend a couple days enjoying the limited local hospitality & then hop over to Hamilton Island off the Australian coast & in the great barrier reef.

If they promoted the smaller islands & to take in the culture on a fun split trip it could open up a large number of small islands that most have to go to Austrailia and backtrack or NZ and backtrack to see.

[Edited 2015-10-22 17:31:12]
 
rbavfan
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:02 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 41):

But the US is really in a snit about US to US carrier JV's. You can do code share and each sell tickets, but you cannot work together on pricing & packages. Its not the same as a commuter to Mainline link. They would need Anti trust immunity. Good luck getting that.

[Edited 2015-10-22 17:03:45]

[Edited 2015-10-22 17:32:11]
 
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Polot
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:03 am

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 52):
But not for SW Pacific Islands.
Quoting rbavfan (Reply 53):
As I noted using it as a hub to smaller islands in South Pacific.

Those smaller islands don't have the traffic to justify building a viable, profitable, hub around (remember small remote island = very expensive operating costs) or the infrastructure to support large amounts of tourists.
 
rbavfan
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:12 am

HNL- HTI 4003nm Would need a widebody jet witch could not land on the runway.
PPG-HTI 2335nm Well within A319/A320/A321 range, A319 can use airport for this flight.
Be interesting to see if naturalist would fly it. Hawaiian is a lea sure carrier after all.

HNL-BOB 2298nm Could be limited on return flight due to runway.
PPG-BOB 1107nm easy A319/A321 flight.

PPG-Hobart 2749nm Easily A319/A321 depending on time of year.
HNL-Hobart 4898nm Would need a widebody, not enough passengers to make profitable.

Hawaiian could cross feed from west coast & from HNL to feed hub and offer unique destinations for tourist that other US carriers are not doing.
 
rbavfan
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:28 am

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 45):
Let's call it South Pacific Island Airways!

Yes and they flew 707's vs newer Airbus & small short range props. 4 707's, 3 twin otters & 1 BN Islander. Different time, bad management, corruption, shady dealings involving Hush Kits. Ceased operations in 1987, 18 years ago. Travel markets were smaller then as well. Were talking ability to get people there in 1 day vs 2-3 days, better management, Marketing & an airline with a top notch reputation.

Also not one destination in my comment other than PPG was served by south Pacific Island Airways. Markets I listed have good tourism from naturalist, scuba divers & outdoor enthusiast and are larger populations, except Bora Bora which is a tourist spot.

[Edited 2015-10-22 17:34:20]
 
LifetimeGS
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:08 am

Aloha (AQ) tried to take on UA in Micronesia and failed miserably.
 
National757
Posts: 486
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:29 am

Quoting LifetimeGS (Reply 58):
Aloha (AQ) tried to take on UA in Micronesia and failed miserably.

Thanks for the information about AQ. Went searching for more on this after your post and found this from another online forum, which some here on A.net may find interesting.

United Airlines vs. Micronesia - Micronesia Forum:
www.micronesiaforum.org/index.php?p=...995/united-airlines-vs-micronesia/

Quoting Makatutu:
Can someone please explain the monopoly in Micronesia, and whether or not it can be fixed please.

This post from Micronesia Forum user WILLYP had information on the AQ service and speculation as to why it was not viable. Looks like the FF program (what ScottB alluded to in Reply 29) was a factor.

Quoting WILLYP:

...ALOHA AIRLINES decided to fly from HNL and back, with a stop on Johnston island. their intent was to give Continental Micronesia some competition, and if successful, expand the route to Guam. people were so excited. when they finally started the route their prices were just under Continental. the people had already been flying and earning "one pass" miles, so the reaction to ALOHA was "screw you!!". no big savings, no reason to switch. after a while ALOHA bailed out.


[Edited 2015-10-23 00:42:31]
 
L1011Lover
Posts: 736
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 5:16 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:18 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 48):
You forget Delta closed CVG. Which yes is technically in Kentucky but is Cincinnati's airport.

DL didn't close CVG! They still consider it a hub! Of course it's a mere shadow of what it once was, but it's not like MEM and not like PIT. It still has a small hub operation and one international flight to CDG. It is a sad sight though compared to when it was a full size hub!

Best regards
L1011Lover
 
ScottB
Posts: 7214
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:10 pm

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 56):
HNL- HTI 4003nm Would need a widebody jet witch could not land on the runway.
PPG-HTI 2335nm Well within A319/A320/A321 range, A319 can use airport for this flight.
Be interesting to see if naturalist would fly it. Hawaiian is a lea sure carrier after all.

HNL-BOB 2298nm Could be limited on return flight due to runway.
PPG-BOB 1107nm easy A319/A321 flight.

PPG-Hobart 2749nm Easily A319/A321 depending on time of year.
HNL-Hobart 4898nm Would need a widebody, not enough passengers to make profitable.

None of these markets, though, are really better-served (hypothetically) through PPG than existing service which also has the benefit of local O&D on the leg to the small market (which would be non-existent from PPG). And I very strongly doubt the French Polynesia government would be enthused about another carrier competing with Air Tahiti to BOB, if the A319 could even operate from there.

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 53):
As I noted using it as a hub to smaller islands in South Pacific. HA could offer the same thing they do in HNL. if you fly LAX-HNL-SYD. you can spend a day or 2 in HNL on the way there or back. If I want to go diving & boating I could fly LAX-PPG spend a couple days enjoying the limited local hospitality & then hop over to Hamilton Island off the Australian coast & in the great barrier reef.

Most of the small markets in the Pacific don't even have enough traffic from the U.S. to fill up an A319 a week. So you'd be trying to connect 250+ people from an A332 on to a couple of different flights every day of the week. The logistics are just unworkable.
 
rbavfan
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:12 pm

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 60):

Many years flying Delta into CVG to go to Shriners Hospital. It was a nice, if far outside town Airport.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:35 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 35):
The one area that makes sense to me is Puerto Rico. There is a lot of similarity to HNL for HA.

The problem with that is HA's brand.

HA is meant to be an O&D carrier for Hawaii. Its entire brand is wrapped up in Hawaii and the Hawaii Tropical Paradise mystique. The airplanes have names of Hawaiian deities (for lack of a better word). When you get on a HA airplane, you are either going to, coming from, or traveling within Hawaii.

Now, AS managed to take a state airline brand and make it national, fair enough. But their brand is very different and they have been working on making their brand more about the West Coast than Alaska.

HA would have to go through a massive shift in their overall branding strategy to pull off a hub outside of Hawaii.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
HALFA
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:35 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 63):
The airplanes have names of Hawaiian deities (for lack of a better word)

Just for clarification, HA's 717's are named after indigenous birds, HA's 767's are named after indigenous sea birds, and HA's A330's are named after constellations used by early Polynesian navigators.
Our aircraft are not named after Deities.

Aloha,
HALFA
Hawaiian Airlines Since 1929...........
 
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RWA380
Posts: 5757
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Sat Oct 24, 2015 3:47 am

Quoting HALFA (Reply 64):
Just for clarification, HA's 717's are named after indigenous birds, HA's 767's are named after indigenous sea birds, and HA's A330's are named after constellations used by early Polynesian navigators.
Our aircraft are not named after Deities.

Thanks for setting the record straight, it's been a while since I've traveled with HA, I'll be up next month & the November after that for some trips to the Islands & I'll be looking for the names on the 330's & 717's I'll be flying, as always, last trip was on Koa'e Kea, Amianiau & Apapane.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Considering 2nd Hub Out Of Hawaii

Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:41 pm

Quoting HALFA (Reply 64):
Just for clarification, HA's 717's are named after indigenous birds, HA's 767's are named after indigenous sea birds, and HA's A330's are named after constellations used by early Polynesian navigators.
Our aircraft are not named after Deities.

I thought the constellations were named for minor deities.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan

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