seansasLCY
Topic Author
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BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:22 am

Daily service from 1 May

http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...172/ba-to-reopen-gatwick-jfk-route

Going up against Norwegian!
 
SKAirbus
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:26 am

Great news for LGW!

There is (I hope) a typo: "Outbound service BA2273 will depart Gatwick at 1640 and arrive at JFK at 1930. Return leg BA2272 will leave JFK at 2000 and land at Gatwick at 1000 the next day".

So a Ryanair style turnaround at JFK?  )
Base: BRU
 
seansasLCY
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:31 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 1):
There is (I hope) a typo: "Outbound service BA2273 will depart Gatwick at 1640 and arrive at JFK at 1930. Return leg BA2272 will leave JFK at 2000 and land at Gatwick at 1000 the next day".

So a Ryanair style turnaround at JFK?

They could be using a LHR plane and swapping them at JFK?
 
vsflyer747400
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:32 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 1):
There is (I hope) a typo: "Outbound service BA2273 will depart Gatwick at 1640 and arrive at JFK at 1930. Return leg BA2272 will leave JFK at 2000 and land at Gatwick at 1000 the next day".

Defintely a typo - GDS has the flight leaving at 2200 - that's more like it  
Flown (in no order) VS BA AA EK CX MH DL EI BD KL HV NW RC LH AF DA TG QF US FR LX AC SK AZ PG SQ UA PA ZB AE(AIR EUROPE) KD
 
vsflyer747400
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:33 am

Quoting seansasLCY (Reply 2):
They could be using a LHR plane and swapping them at JFK?

No, its a 3 class 777 (J/W/Y)
Flown (in no order) VS BA AA EK CX MH DL EI BD KL HV NW RC LH AF DA TG QF US FR LX AC SK AZ PG SQ UA PA ZB AE(AIR EUROPE) KD
 
Curiousflyer
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:35 am

Great LHR is OK for a transfer but getting there is a zoo. I have not been to LGW in a while but remember a much more civilized experience.
 
PIEAvantiP180
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:49 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 1):

It's probably how they will rotate aircraft in and out of LGW. Routing might be LHR-JFK-LGW-JFK-LHR. So the aircraft taking off at 8pm might come from an earlier LHR flight. Very interested to see if the flight will succeeded and posibly even see expansion and maybe another carrier junp in the mix. Possibly AA, UA, DL, VS?
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:08 am

Will this be another 772 heading for LGW ? I recollect that the fleet is already destined to increase by 1 next year, but this service is daily, so there is unlikely to be enough spare capacity, unless somewhere will be getting a reduced frewquency
 
TC957
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:44 am

LHR will get a good few 789's by the time this route , and the other new BA long-hauls get launched next year, so freeing up the LHR 777's to come down to LGW.
 
SKAirbus
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:50 am

I've often wondered if the 777 is too much of a plane for the LGW ops.

Would it not be better to move the small 787-8 subfleet to LGW supplementing with 772s should the need arise? There must be yield advantages there.
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8herveg
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:58 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 1):
"Outbound service BA2273 will depart Gatwick at 1640 and arrive at JFK at 1930

Awful outbound timings. Why don't they allow the flight to depart at say, 10am, so it can land at JFK at 1pm. Most hotels you can check-in from 3pm and you get almost half a day at your destination (New York) rather than in London, where you'd have to book a whole day off work and waste most of it at home to wait for your flight in the late afternoon? Makes no sense to me...
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:02 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 9):

I've often wondered if the 777 is too much of a plane for the LGW ops.

BA have now been operating the 772 from LGW since 1999, if it were "too much aircraft" They would probably done something about it by now. Fortunately for BA much of the LGW long haul flying is either leisure traffic, or to destinations not served directly by other airlines. This means that capacity can be adjusted by either operating less than daily, or tagging destinations onto existing routes.

Moving the 787-8 fleet to LGW would just add another type to the mix, increasing costs. Also the 787-8 is the closest replacement they have to the 763's that are being withdrawn from service at LHR.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:16 pm

Nice route. Should permit connections to many smaller European markets not served from LHR. They cannot rotate the aircraft from LHR as it is one of the F-less birds.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:27 pm

They're about to gain 5 gates at T7...so they will have room to expand.

This was flown for a while...757s and 767s.

The board used to look something like this

London
London
London
London Gatwick
London


And coming from a city like NYC where we have New York-Kennedy and New York-LaGaurdia, I could never imagine one being referred to as New York and another being referred to as New York-LaGuardia on the same board. What an odd way of marketing your hub.
 
TC957
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:13 pm

It seems BA are dropping LGW - LAS around the time of launching LGW - JFK.
 
goldcrest
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:19 pm

Additional frequencies have been added on the LHR LAS to compensate for the reduction of LGW LAS.
 
AirbusA6
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:20 pm

A lot of passenger on LGW-LHR will be point to point passengers, especially leisure ones, LGW being a lot more convenient for much of the south of England. I don't understand why they dropped the route in the first place
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
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VS4ever
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:30 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 16):
I don't understand why they dropped the route in the first place

Slots at LHR and better yields is the general mantra that is thrown around. I am very pleased like others to see LGW get a little bit of love like this. Might be a one-off or the start of something more, who knows.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:38 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 13):
This was flown for a while...757s and 767s.

The 757s were used for flights from both BHX and GLA to JFK and operated to JFK between January 1995 and October 1998. These were the only TATL flights ever operated to JFK by BA with a 752. At that time the LGW-JFK service was operated by a 763.

The 763 service was suspended in October 2001, the last flight being operated by G-BNWM.

The service was resumed at the time of the implementation of the EU / USA Open Skies Agreement in March 2008 when most USA-LGW flights operated by American airlines moved to LHR. The BA service from LGW was operated by a 772, However the Credit Crunch killed it. So it was suspended after 772 G-VIIB operated LGW-JFK on 1 October 2009. ('IB then returned to the UK operating JFK-LHR as BA114.)
 
Andy33
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:39 pm

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 6):
It's probably how they will rotate aircraft in and out of LGW. Routing might be LHR-JFK-LGW-JFK-LHR. So the aircraft taking off at 8pm might come from an earlier LHR flight.

As other posters have pointed out, LGW has had its own allocation of 772s since 1999. Along with that there is a cabin crew base with crews trained on 772 and the A320 series, and a maintenance facility, so absolutely no need to rotate LHR planes on and off the route. There are shorthaul flights to feed the new route, but like others I'd expect a major part of bookings from the LGW end to be O&D
 
theginge
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:46 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 10):
Awful outbound timings. Why don't they allow the flight to depart at say, 10am, so it can land at JFK at 1pm. Most hotels you can check-in from 3pm and you get almost half a day at your destination (New York) rather than in London, where you'd have to book a whole day off work and waste most of it at home to wait for your flight in the late afternoon? Makes no sense to me...

Maybe the aircraft doesn't arrive from its earlier service in time. If people want to go earlier there is still the option of LHR.
 
8herveg
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:51 pm

Quoting theginge (Reply 20):
Maybe the aircraft doesn't arrive from its earlier service in time. If people want to go earlier there is still the option of LHR.

I understand that, but there's probably more people who do want to go earlier, so they'll all go from LHR. Thus no one will fly the LGW flight = economic disaster. I would have thought it would make sense to make the LGW-JFK depart in the morning and then use another aircraft which would have been operating a morning departure to do a late afternoon one, where it's not so important to arrive at the destination later on in the day.
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:07 pm

Quoting AirbusA6 (Reply 16):
A lot of passenger on LGW-LHR will be point to point passengers, especially leisure ones, LGW being a lot more convenient for much of the south of England. I don't understand why they dropped the route in the first place

Of the many LON-NYC rotations, it was the poorest performer in terms of yield apparently.

Quoting Andy33 (Reply 19):
ut like others I'd expect a major part of bookings from the LGW end to be O&D

The whole base is predicated on P2P leisure.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 18):

The 763 service was suspended in October 2001, the last flight being operated by G-BNWM.

Did the B763 fleet offer F on this route?

Quoting VV701 (Reply 18):
However the Credit Crunch killed i

Wasn't it sitting slots at JFK for the upcoming LCY babybus operation?
 
avi8
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:08 pm

How many connections are available at LGW? I thought that the short-haul flights were mostly for O/D purposes. Are the flights banked at LGW?
avi8
 
RJNUT
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:09 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 12):
Should permit connections to many smaller European markets not served from

there are more of those than I realized so this makes for broader access to BA network for New Yorkers or even others connecting into JFK on AA!
 
RIX
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:22 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 22):
Did the B763 fleet offer F on this route?

Yes, there was F on my flight with G-BNWO in June 2000. Club World though was not flat bed yet - my only experience in "old old" BA Business. Economy plus did not exist yet either.

Oh, and it was also my only flight with Landor c/s...
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:45 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 23):
Are the flights banked at LGW?

How do you bank flights on a single runway airport?
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:04 pm

Quoting seansasLCY (Thread starter):
Daily service from 1 May

So this will be in place after BA move to the South Terminal?

And then they add CPB pre-clearence.   

http://www.thebasource.com/british-a...london-gatwick-new-york-jfk-route/

[Edited 2015-10-21 09:38:11]
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:09 pm

Quoting Andy33 (Reply 19):
and a maintenance facility, so absolutely no need to rotate LHR planes on and off the route

This was true up until the loss of G-YMMM in January 2008. Until then BA kept a back-up 772 at both LHR and LGW. However they covered the loss of 'MM by relying on the LHR based back-up 772 to back-up LGW based operational aircraft.

As a result there were, for example, three BA 772 positioning flights last month (September 15) from LHR to LGW flown on 10th (G-YMME), 16th (G-VIIK) and 19th (G-VIIL).

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 22):
Wasn't it sitting slots at JFK for the upcoming LCY babybus operation?

I have not seen that before. However the LCY-SNN-JFK inaugural flight was only one day before the last LGW-JFK flight. And that as I have already said, returned to LON operating JFK-LHR. So that flight could have used what was normally an LHR-JFK slot. So that could explain why the 772 ('IB) operated LGW-JFK-LHR which has always seemed to me to be somewhat strange. And it must have been planned well in advance unless passengers booked to fly JFK-LGW were actually flown to LHR.
 
AirGAbon
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:15 pm

What about La Compagnie on LTN-EWR? We don't hear about them very much. How are they doing?
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:26 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sm5q693eQ4

A trip report here, not good loads it appears on the day and problems with IFE. Crew not very responsive to problems.
Just one point of view.

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 29):
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:55 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 10):
Awful outbound timings.

Depends on the point of sale. I think it would be very nice timings for passengers originating in NYC.
 
avi8
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:58 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 26):
How do you bank flights on a single runway airport?

Which was one of the reasons as to why I asked the question. Unbanked operations make connections harder yet not imposible. BA could very well time their flights for connections so that's why I asked how their operations were organized.
avi8
 
factsonly
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:02 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 10):
Awful outbound timings. Why don't they allow the flight to depart at say, 10am, so it can land at JFK at 1pm. Most hotels you can check-in from 3pm and you get almost half a day at your destination (New York) rather than in London, where you'd have to book a whole day off work and waste most of it at home to wait for your flight in the late afternoon? Makes no sense to me...

GREAT outbound timing.

Businessmen and experienced travelers like to spend a day in the office, as they prefer to depart late afternoon early evening, for a late flight arrival and straight to bed.

Much better for jet lag....and fresh for a new business day the day after.
 
RJNUT
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:04 pm

here is a good possible connection opportunity


1 BA2272Y 11JUL M JFKLGW YK1 1000P 1000A 12JUL T /E
2 BA2586Y 12JUL T LGWVCE YK1 1130A 235P
 
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VS4ever
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:11 pm

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 29):
What about La Compagnie on LTN-EWR? We don't hear about them very much. How are they doing?

If you use the generally available stats (yes I know these are only as good as reported from T-100) and don't have access to insider info, the first 4 months of 2015 are as follows. Their % of seats filled. (on a 74 seat aircraft)

Inbound, outbound, average

Jan 15 55.47%, 53.28%, 54.38%
Feb 15 50.00%, 49.94%, 49.97%
Mar 15 60.42%, 61.26%, 60.84%
Apr 15 64.82%, 63.93%, 64.38%

Average for the period 57.84%

Again, these are based on what we can see, reality maybe slightly different than reported. But slightly improving each month, it will be interesting to see the summer months when they get reported early next year.

They are advertising on-line as I have seen them in various places.So hopefully that will help.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:13 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 34):

Why not do direct DL186 JFK-VCE ?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
RJNUT
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 36):
Why not do direct DL186 JFK-VCE ?

sure unless you prefer One World, just another option is all !
 
vectismanpaul
Posts: 108
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:22 pm

Some forums once again suggesting Gatwick Las Vegas is suspended next year. However still bookable well into next year on BA.Com. Can anyone confirm either way?


V
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:27 pm

Sorta surprised they'd this this once again with a 777.

I guess the cost for AA to reopen LGW and put a 752 there was just too much to justify?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:45 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 14):

Really? Do you have a source?

I don't mind much. The LHR flight is much more valuable to locals, as well as for connections. It must have been hard to compete against VS' daily 744 flights.
 
clrd4t8koff
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:47 pm

Anyone think BA will upgauge one of their 3 evening BOS-LHR flights and then swap one from LHR to LGW, giving them 3x BOS-LHR and 1x BOS-LGW to also combat DY next year? Seems like a good route for one of their 767's or 787's. I think a 777 would be a bit much.
 
7673mech
Posts: 524
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:56 pm

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 10):
Awful outbound timings. Why don't they allow the flight to depart at say, 10am, so it can land at JFK at 1pm. Most hotels you can check-in from 3pm and you get almost half a day at your destination (New York) rather than in London, where you'd have to book a whole day off work and waste most of it at home to wait for your flight in the late afternoon? Makes no sense to me...

Awful if your a student or on vacation - perfect if your conducting business and want to complete a full day prior to going to NY.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:18 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 34):
Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 36):

Or you could just go through LHR already?

BA112 JFK-LHR
BA578 LHR-VCE

Part of the problem with LGW for connections is that a lot of the daily or less-than-daily short haul flying doesn't have a consistent timetable, and the schedule fluctuates quite dramatically by the day of the week. I looked at BRI for example, and you could definitely connect to JFK but only on a day or two per week in each direction.

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 41):

All BA longhaul at LGW is 772. If it was anything smaller it would have to be operated by AA, which seems unlikely.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:26 pm

There's next to no cost for American to open LGW-JFK as they'd clearly not need to hire many staff as they'd outsource to a handler, just as BA do. Any AA B757 in that market would be mainly picking up bucket fare leisure as the product is neither a loco B788 nor a flagship wide body with premium seating. Also there's limited lounge access at LGW for BA during the move which won't help.
 
SCQ83
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:55 pm

A very New Yorker day for IAG today... LGW-JFK and DUB-EWR.

I wonder if the only reason of this flight is to keep Norwegian at bay. DY natural expansion would be to add a 2 daily to LGW-JFK. If Norwegian ends up having, for instance, 3 daily flights, that will be a small annoyance for BA.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:03 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 44):
Any AA B757 in that market would be mainly picking up bucket fare leisure as the product is neither a loco B788 nor a flagship wide body with premium seating.

I'd say that's more your supposition, than any market derived fact.

CO/UA have long since proven that various UK markets have no problem with a 752 with lieflat biz seats, if it offers a nonstop, even in the face of competition.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
RJNUT
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Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:08 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 43):
Or you could just go through LHR already?

BA112 JFK-LHR
BA578 LHR-VCE

of course but I 'll bet in peak season they will dump more discounted inventory into my LGW connection example , but who knows?!
 
skipness1E
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:52 pm

@LAXB77R Ok good point on the face of it. Consider the rest if my argument though. United fly the B752 to maintain frequency at LHR and have bespoke lounges in a brand new STAR focussed alliance hub. American would be a once daily venture into a traditionally lower yielding market on a narrow body offering limited lounge access and inferior hard product to the B777 out of LHR. Taken together, this would likely mean the lower yielding traffic wpuld choose LGW.

Continental were keen to serve both LGW/LHR-EWR before they got the actual comparitive numbers in and LGW was pulled very quickly remember?
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: BA Relaunch LGW-JFK

Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:09 pm

Axing of LAS-LGW is confirmed, but with no set end date ("in May"): http://www.reviewjournal.com/travel/...schedules-las-vegas-london-flights

Bless Mr Velotta (writer of article) for always staying on top of aviation matters at LAS.

Also appears LAS will receive 4, not just 3, additional frequencies from LHR.

[Edited 2015-10-21 16:10:04]

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