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enilria
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Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:12 pm

I'm a little surprised they wouldn't just stay silent. The response didn't address changes in oil prices.

Delta is taking Hillary Clinton to task for her views on airline pricing.

In a column on the Web site Quartz, Clinton wrote that capitalism isn't working and cited examples: pharmaceutical companies raising prices by 5,000% overnight and gouging patients, high-speed broadband pricing that is far higher in the U.S. than elsewhere, and airline fares that have not fallen despite oil price declines.

What's wrong with this list? Ben Hirst, Delta's executive vice president for corporate affairs and special counsel, said airlines shouldn't be included because fares have declined relative to inflation for years and today are 7% lower than they were a year ago.


http://www.thestreet.com/story/13334...not-gougers-fares-are-falling.html

Over the past year, oil prices have fallen from over $100 a barrel to under $50, and the price of jet fuel has dropped more than a dollar per gallon. But the four major airlines—down from 10 airlines just 15 years ago—are charging as much as ever for tickets, even as they hit travelers with extra fees, for everything from checking a suitcase to picking a seat when they fly home at the holidays.

http://qz.com/529303/hillary-clinton...mean-hanging-consumers-out-to-dry/
 
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thekorean
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:25 pm

Down right pathetic attempt at swaying Bernie Sanders supporters.

Is she against capitalism also when Wall Street lobbyists contribute to her campaign?
 
jetwet1
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:29 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 1):
Down right pathetic attempt at swaying Bernie Sanders supporters.

Is she against capitalism also when Wall Street lobbyists contribute to her campaign?

Agreed

What is said in public and what is said in private are two very different things.

I will agree though, on a lot of things that regular people need to buy, prices are rising, wages are not, never a good combination, airfares though, are not really one of them.
 
RJNUT
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:30 pm

i like her but she needs to stay out of this fray. It has taken forever for the airlines to reach this level of stability! She should address EAS and develop better strategies there!
 
slinky09
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:36 pm

Is there an election going on perhaps?
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:39 pm

The airlines need to shut up politically. They have no excuse for consolidation anymore. I see they continue their straw man argument with the "historical air fare relative to inflation" statement. It ignores technology advances and that customers are getting less than they used to when they buy a ticket. The fact is that flying should be more valuable than it used to be. It isn't.

This is one of the few thing Hillary is right about. Although capitalism isn't the root problem. It's a market failure, helped in large part by the government allowing consolidation.
 
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:48 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 5):
This is one of the few thing Hillary is right about

Wrong again, oh young one. Technology costs initially before it saves. The price of oil is significant, but it is not the only cost of running an airline. Delta just made a significant increase in base pay for many of its employees. They are also buying new airplanes and improving their facilities at places like JFK and LGA. None of this is free. The business is not that long out of a deep hole and even with their newfound profitability, they are still recovering from years of losses. Leave them alone and let the market work. It always will if not unduly messed with.
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:16 pm

Leaving political opinions aside for now, why don't politicians pick on industries with absurdly high profit margins rather than something like airlines where profit margins are already so low?
 
bergkampsticket
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:22 pm

This is going to end in tears.
 
airbazar
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:25 pm

That alone will get me to support her. Just compare the fuel surcharge on a flight between BOS-LAX and a flight between BOS and LHR, for example. Is the fuel used for TATL flights somehow 10x more expensinve then the fuel used on a TCON flight? Do they use a Nutella additive or something? It's 100% gouging. They are getting a beating domestically from the LCC so they are exploiting the international passenger while they can.
 
ec99
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:28 pm

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 4):
Is there an election going on perhaps?

  

This is straight political pandering from Hillary. Hilary “Wall Street” Clinton is as likely to go after the airlines as Trump is to get the Mexicans to build us a wall. Politicians say a lot of things during elections (especially 18 month long American elections).

My view is that historically, the airlines lost so much money for so long that it is hard to really fault them for making a profit. There is little investment in new airlines since historically the return on capital has been so low. If things keep going like this for another five years, I would bet the big hedge funds will start to be willing to fund some new airlines to get a piece of the pie.

That said, Hillary’s comments about broadband I support, mostly due to my hatred of Comcast but also because I believe the broadband monopoly they have in most of the country is bad for America.
 
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enilria
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:49 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 5):

The airlines need to shut up politically.

Yes

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 5):
They have no excuse for consolidation anymore.

Yes

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 5):
that customers are getting less than they used to when they buy a ticket.

Yes Yes

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 5):
This is one of the few thing Hillary is right about.

Yes

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 5):
Although capitalism isn't the root problem.

Yes Yes Yes

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 5):
It's a market failure, helped in large part by the government allowing consolidation.

YESSSSSSSSS

That was my When Harry Met Sally impression. Pretty good?

Quoting EC99 (Reply 13):
This is straight political pandering from Hillary.

Yes, but it does show that Fair Skies probably isn't going to have much traction with Hillary, but who knows.
 
cloudboy
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:49 pm

Airlines are today's railroads. Instead of fighting in the marketplace, they have decided to fight through politics, the stock market, and market controls. They play politics instead of product.

This unfortunately already starts by the misstatement that Clinton is arguing that Capitalism doesn't work. In the original article she states that our economy is getting away from traditional capitalist ideals and large businesses are in fact working against capitalism. And she is right. Consolidation has meant that airlines no longer have to fight for their passengers. Someone stated about that the airlines are entitled to make a profit for a while? Why are the airlines entitled at all? Profits should never be an entitlement. The problem is we have a system now where it is too hard to start any competition,. That is what drove the railroads into bankruptcy - they tried to leverage their power until it was too late.

Whether or not you are a fan of the airlines or not a fan of the railroads, there is coming a tipping point. At some point the public itself is going to put a halt to investment and protection for the airlines and switch that support over to modern rail or other transport options. The airlines have to consider whether they want to be a player 20 years down the road, or they want to fight it and shorten their lifespan entirely.
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TWA85
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:51 pm

I am pretty sure all the airline employees that have sacrificed their hard earned wages through wage concessions over the years to make the airline industry profitable would disagree with her.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:08 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 1):
Down right pathetic attempt at swaying Bernie Sanders supporters.

Is she against capitalism also when Wall Street lobbyists contribute to her campaign?

she has taken this same tone since her political career started. To suggest this is pandering to other supporters is nothing but baseless speculation, and you post that in anger, for some reason.

she has no control over people donating to her campaign.

Airline prices are not based on a free market and bashing possible price fixing or manipulating markets is doing the opposite, supporting capitalism. I think you shouldn't use phrases you do not understand.
 
diverted
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:13 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 17):
she has taken this same tone since her political career started. To suggest this is pandering to other supporters is nothing but baseless speculation, and you post that in anger, for some reason.

she has no control over people donating to her campaign.

I thought her tone was "donate to the Clinton foundation for political favors"
 
redflyer
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:17 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 8):
Leaving political opinions aside for now, why don't politicians pick on industries with absurdly high profit margins rather than something like airlines where profit margins are already so low?

Well, she could pick on Silicon Valley companies, starting with the likes of Apple. But then they are some of the biggest Democratic supporters known to mankind. Besides, you never hear of people complaining about paying $600 for an iPhone that costs less than $200 to make. But you'll hear people whine incessantly about an airline ticket to go see grandma that costs $150, even though the airline is losing money on the seat.

This is politics at its finest: a professional politician pandering for votes.
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:23 pm



It says Facebook. But, it is very true for Anet as well.
 
nikeherc
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 18):
she has no control over people donating to her campaign

In fact, she does. If she gets a donation from an individual or a group that she or her staff believe is supportive of values with which she disagrees, the donation can be returned. In fact I believe some candidates have done this in the past. Of course, the issue is not does she have control over people donating to her campaign, but do people donating to her campaign have control over her. Her party has in the past made claims that their opponents are controlled by their donors, so one would assume that the same would apply equally in her case.
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Osubuckeyes
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 20):
That didn't happen either, but keep digging it's only been 3 decades you are going to find one thing sooner or later!

Nope! There's no way that soliciting donations from foreign leaders and people of influence around the world while in a position of power is a conflict of interest.
 
runningonempty
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:25 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 12):

That alone will get me to support her. Just compare the fuel surcharge on a flight between BOS-LAX and a flight between BOS and LHR, for example. Is the fuel used for TATL flights somehow 10x more expensinve then the fuel used on a TCON flight? Do they use a Nutella additive or something? It's 100% gouging. They are getting a beating domestically from the LCC so they are exploiting the international passenger while they can.

Free market baby! All that means is there is an open market ready to be taken advantage of by a savvy entrepreneur with capital or investors. While I'm not into the lack of variety in the market, it doesn't mean it can't be changed... To blame a corporation for their prices(lets not forget half of that fare is taxes, which Mrs. Clinton is probably very excited to raise to suffocate the industry even more) to quite allowable, but to think the government needs to be your spokesperson is quite a bastardization of free market capitalism.
 
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:25 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 5):
I see they continue their straw man argument with the "historical air fare relative to inflation" statement.

So historical reality is now a "straw man." Right.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 5):
and that customers are getting less than they used to when they buy a ticket

I could not possibly disagree more. I believe I get far, far more now than I used to. I get newer planes, better reliability, better technology, better terminals and broader networks.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 5):
The fact is that flying should be more valuable than it used to be. It isn't.

In your opinion.

In my opinion, air travel is more valuable than ever - we have truly entered a second "golden age" of air travel. Said it before and I'll say it again. Today, I have broad choices from typically at least 2 if not sometimes 3 or more options for virtually anyplace on earth I want to fly, and I have multiple massive global networks on which I can earn and redeem my frequent flyer miles. Airlines are spending literally tens of billions of dollars on new airplanes, new terminals, better products and services, reliability, technology, etc. - all facilitated by the entirely-reasonable profits they're making.

I absolutely love the direction air travel is heading in the U.S. and am thrilled with capitalism, the free market and consolidation - all of which, when given the opportunity, have in my view been astoundingly good for the airline industry and all of its stakeholders, including not just passengers, but also employees and shareholders.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 15):
Instead of fighting in the marketplace

Airlines aren't "fighting in the marketplace?"   

I suppose that's the reason why I can't (can!) literally walk up right now and buy a ticket to fly from NYC to CHI for less than $75? And the reason why AA, Delta and United aren't (are!) collectively spending several billion dollars on upgrades to their product both on the ground and in the air?

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 15):
Consolidation has meant that airlines no longer have to fight for their passengers.

I could not possibly disagree more.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 15):
Profits should never be an entitlement.

And neither should be uneconomically low airfares.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 15):
Whether or not you are a fan of the airlines or not a fan of the railroads, there is coming a tipping point. At some point the public itself is going to put a halt to investment and protection for the airlines and switch that support over to modern rail or other transport options.

I'm not holding my breath for that to happen anytime in the foreseeable future.

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 16):
I am pretty sure all the airline employees that have sacrificed their hard earned wages through wage concessions over the years to make the airline industry profitable would disagree with her.

Indeed.
 
psa188
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:33 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 5):
This is one of the few thing Hillary is right about. Although capitalism isn't the root problem. It's a market failure, helped in large part by the government allowing consolidation.

As long as airlines keep up the nickel-and-diming, customer unfriendly policies, politicians will pander to voters fed up with how awful air travel has gotten in the last decade. The airlines made their bed and can now lie in it.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:36 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 25):
AA, Delta and United aren't (are!) collectively spending several billion dollars on upgrades to their product both on the ground and in the air?

"upgrades" is a relative term... The billions of dollars being spent is to install more, less comfortable seats. Then they give you a screen and booze and say deal with it.
 
airzona11
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:39 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 20):

Ahh here you are from your Oxford educated platform speaking of the low information voter.

To summarize all your posts, "All Americans that believe contrary to my / leftist views are informed."

If you cannot innovate, litigate. Once you litigate, regulate. This is the explanation for the state of affairs in industries such as aviation in America.

Regulated monopolies / natural monopolies - ALL OF WHICH ARE GOVERNMENT CREATED - are what can be pointed to the reason for Hillary qualms.

-Pharmaceuticals- Over regulated, billions of dollars and years of time to get a drug to market.
-Broadband - Natural, government segmented monopolies. (Funny Hillary doesn't look at GDP impact, the countries largest Telco (vastly diversified from broadband) AT&T, also contributed more than any other company to GDP).
-Airlines- Government enabled "partial" monopoly/cartel/4 company dominated system

So let's regulate more, complain about cruel rich people making money, and make it even more difficult to grow and expand business (more jobs, higher wages, etc). Signed - B747400ERF and his enlightened people.
 
n562wn
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:39 pm

Quoting psa188 (Reply 26):
As long as airlines keep up the nickel-and-diming, customer unfriendly policies, politicians will pander to voters fed up with how awful air travel has gotten in the last decade. The airlines made their bed and can now lie in it.

You mean the bed that is laced with record load factors and profits across the board? Yeah, I'm sure they're really kicking themselves. The demand is obviously there and if people were really that "fed up" they'd be speaking with their wallets. That's all the top brass at any airline sees.

[Edited 2015-10-22 12:44:19]
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
chrisp390
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:47 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 25):

   I could not agree more
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:49 pm

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 15):
Instead of fighting in the marketplace, they have decided to fight through politics, the stock market, and market controls. They play politics instead of product.

Airlines aren't fighting on product because the majority people don't care about product; they will complain about getting a crap product but then purchase it again and again if it is a few dollars cheaper than the competitors'. And there is a limit to how much they can fight on price because if they take their prices down too low, no one makes any money. Econ 101.

Quoting redflyer (Reply 19):
Well, she could pick on Silicon Valley companies, starting with the likes of Apple. But then they are some of the biggest Democratic supporters known to mankind. Besides, you never hear of people complaining about paying $600 for an iPhone that costs less than $200 to make. But you'll hear people whine incessantly about an airline ticket to go see grandma that costs $150, even though the airline is losing money on the seat.

Because you know, man, tech is like, cool, and it's disrupting stuff, and like making something new and cool, in the cloud...

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):
YESSSSSSSSS

That was my When Harry Met Sally impression. Pretty good?

So you mean you're faking your agreement just to prove a point about how people like faking?  
 
rbavfan
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:51 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 12):

Fuel on the return flight from UK will be higher than fuel price on US side.
 
allegiantflyer
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:04 pm

*insert generic anti-Hillary comment just to fit in*

This is a diffrent issue than healthcare. Flying is not a privilege, imagine the passengers that would be encountered if it were. Amtrak is partially government funded so they can use that mode of transportation if they choose to.

Side note- does anyone else find it ironic that Delta( the airline whose strategy is to complain to the government whenever things don't go in their favor because it's "unfair") , would be the one to speak about government overstepping its boundaries?
 
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enilria
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:18 pm

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 21):
It says Facebook. But, it is very true for Anet as well.

All the more reason why the real point is that DL should have just let it pass. I don't think jumping in to public politics behooves a company. I don't see what they hope to gain. They could have just signaled their displeasure less publicly and accomplished more.

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 32):
So you mean you're faking your agreement just to prove a point about how people like faking?

No. Just having fun.
 
hjulicher
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:20 pm

In my humble opinion, although airfares are all time lows, I believe she has some merit to what she says.

The 2000's were a period of mega mergers which were meant to create "shareholder value" by merging companies to mega multinationals too big to fail which investors loved. Market power to crush competition, huge lobby groups to sway congress and off-shoring profits to avoid tax obligations.

You see it the pharma industry, in telecommunications, in the airline industry and in banking. My opinion, the number of MBA graduates has skyrocketed in the recent decade, and mergers and acquisitions are seen as a new way in which to create quick shareholder value, yet comes at the expense of employees, stakeholders and communities. Prices in the US are far higher for many services than in other countries and quality isn't necessarily better. Ch 11. bankruptcy, in my opinion, has been used illegally to annul contracts and renegotiate contract terms that are in favor of these huge multinationals.

Pan Am was allowed to fail and the pieces were picked up by the airlines that were still in business. When one business dies another is born, but with Ch 11. bankruptcy, poorly managed businesses have been allowed to be restructured at considerable expense and continue exist. This isn't right.

In the case with airlines, once one filed for bankruptcy and reorganized, it was only a matter of time before the others followed suit to gain the competitive advantage the first airline achieved through bankruptcy. In terms of entrepreneurial spirit, it seems to me that this system is flawed because the reward isn't going to the company that was best run, but to the one which was worse run. Should the worst run airline had failed , the others would have been more competitive and have bought the assets of the liquidating carrier. This unfortunately doesn't happen anymore in corporate america. Yes one can argue there was force majeur due to the attacks of 9/11 or because of SARS, but all airlines are facing the same stochastic shocks in the industry. Newer more innovating airlines (or companies) aren't able to compete because the golliaths, which are poorly run, are allowed to live. The exilir of life.

I definitely see that there is a degree of corporate greed. For one, I'm confounded as to how DL can get away with reducing staff despite having the best earnings in the industry, as if 7B USD earnings isn't enough.

I understand the need to maintain liquidity and to think long run, but in an attempt to payout dividends to shareholders to increase market capitalization and shareholder value, I see companies really only interested in pleasing shareholders and not their employees, communities or customers they serve.

My 2 cents.
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ckfred
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:27 pm

First, when was the last time Hillary flew commercial? I bet it had to be when Bill was Governor of Arkansas and traveling beyond the range of state aircraft.

Second, perhaps the reason why fares haven't decreased in the last year is because demand is escalating. I can't remember the last time I was on a half empty airplane. It was probably back in 2001, when I was on an AA 738 from LAX to ORD. The airlines are all keeping seat inventory at levels that allow them to have pricing power.

Third, the reason drugs are expensive in the U.S. is because so many other countries regulate the price of drugs. Since the cost of drugs is unregulated, drug companies mark up the prices to pay for R&D. I remember Joe Kernan of CNBC, who had worked for a drug company first out of college, saying maybe 10 years ago that because of price controls in Canada, Canadian drug companies do very little R&D. They simply manufacture drugs under licenses from U.S. and European companies. A lot of European drug companies try to find a U.S. partner very quickly, so that they can recoup some of the R&D cost, when a new drug comes gets approved in Europe and by the FDA.
 
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:09 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 5):
It ignores technology advances and that customers are getting less than they used to when they buy a ticket. The fact is that flying should be more valuable than it used to be. It isn't.

Seems that the airlines are providing more, now than they were when I first hired on in '71. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we now have video screens at every seat, flatbed seats in First Class, cleaner, more modern interiors, newer a/c, etc.
Should I go on?

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 15):
she has no control over people donating to her campaign.

As mentioned elsewhere, if she wasn't so greedy, she could easily refuse some donations if she saw fit to do it.

Quoting diverted (Reply 16):
she has no control over people donating to her campaign.

I thought her tone was "donate to the Clinton foundation for political favors"

     

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 18):

The tax code gives them all great deals for leases and their high costs give them tax rebates, and they contribute little to all the infrastructure needed in the entire network.

I'm confused...........Didn't DL spend millions on the terminals in JFK and LGA? That's only TWO examples.

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 18):

I thought her tone was "donate to the Clinton foundation for political favors"

That didn't happen either, but keep digging it's only been 3 decades you are going to find one thing sooner or later!

You'd like to think that, but I'm afraid you're wrong.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 25):

You mean the social media mouthpiece of Delta Air Lines?

I think they're more the mouthpiece of the IAM.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
1g
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:19 pm

I just thought air fares were basically determined by how much consumers are willing to pay for a particular flight. Isn't it how it is? It has nothing to do with how much oil costs. If a flight gets fully booked at x price but oil prices are dropping, I'd raise the fare price not lower it!

Or else why does an iPhone cost more than an Android phone with equivalent specs and build quality?
Why are diamond rings so expensive?
Do I have to pay a 12 dollar toll when I enter New York City?   
 
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:05 pm

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 13):
Airlines are today's railroads. Instead of fighting in the marketplace, they have decided to fight through politics, the stock market, and market controls. They play politics instead of product.

They may have lost billions and billions for at least a decade, but now that they're making money they're invited to take a seat next to the investment bankers.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 32):
Flying is not a privilege, imagine the passengers that would be encountered if it were.

Is it a right then? I can imagine things getting worse, but I'll skip that thought for a second.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 32):
Amtrak is partially government funded so they can use that mode of transportation if they choose to.

Don't tell Cunard Line, Greyhound, cab companies and uber drivers. They might get ideas to apply for handouts all of a sudden so that people can choose an alternative mode of transportation in areas currently not conveniently served by more than one mode.

I like Amtrak and am a customer, but saying it's *partially* government funded is a lofty term when it hasn't made a profit ever since it was founded in 1971. That program that was projected to reach fiscal self-sufficiency by 1974 and never has.

In fact, Amtrak reports don't know the word profit or surplus, they only speak of "operating cost recovery" and the percentage of that is always less than 100% with lowest loss in x years and highest revenue ever. At those rates, they should have been profitable long ago and certainly will become profitable right after the next elections  
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SPREE34
Posts: 1744
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:46 pm

Quoting nikeherc (Reply 6):
Wrong again, oh young one. Technology costs initially before it saves. The price of oil is significant, but it is not the only cost of running an airline. Delta just made a significant increase in base pay for many of its employees. They are also buying new airplanes and improving their facilities at places like JFK and LGA. None of this is free. The business is not that long out of a deep hole and even with their newfound profitability, they are still recovering from years of losses. Leave them alone and let the market work. It always will if not unduly messed with.

Awesome.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 8):
She is the last person that should be pointing fingers for gouging anyone.

Try getting her cheerleaders to read about that. The very actions she would propose legislation to stop.

Quoting mayor (Reply 36):
Seems that the airlines are providing more, now than they were when I first hired on in '71. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we now have video screens at every seat, flatbed seats in First Class, cleaner, more modern interiors, newer a/c, etc.
Should I go on?

You are correct, and at a lower price when adjusted for inflation.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:49 pm

Quoting ua900 (Reply 38):
I like Amtrak and am a customer, but saying it's *partially* government funded is a lofty term when it hasn't made a profit ever since it was founded in 1971.

If it were government funded, we'd never pay a dime for tickets.  

Nobody, not even the SNCF, makes money off of regular passenger trains. HSR is sometimes profitable, but regular trains simply aren't. Governments fund them because they want to offer a service that citizens need and want to use. Obviously, there is a need and a want in the US market for rail, so it boggles my mind why we don't dedicate more funding to expand it beyond the NEC and long-haul routes. Not everything can be supported by the market, and that includes things like trains, libraries, national parks, health care and unemployment insurance.
 
BravoOne
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:00 pm

The woman is a pathetic liar and has been for the last twenty-five year. What would you expect?
 
747megatop
Posts: 1785
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 8:22 am

RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:09 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 1):

Down right pathetic attempt at swaying Bernie Sanders supporters.

Is she against capitalism also when Wall Street lobbyists contribute to her campaign?

Hillary is just trying to distract attention from the grilling she is receiving in her congress hearing on Benghazi.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:11 pm

Im pretty liberal overall, but I dont like the woman. Shes basically Mitt Romney but for the Democrats. The person who would say anything to get elected.

This is pandering. Instead of going after the airline industry, why not go after the douche that jacked up the price of the drug that can stop aids? Flying isnt a matter of life and death, that drug is.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
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ua900
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:26 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 40):
Obviously, there is a need and a want in the US market for rail, so it boggles my mind why we don't dedicate more funding to expand it beyond the NEC and long-haul routes.

It would help if people could transfer seamlessly between transportation agencies using a single account rather than a plethora of smart cards. Three different cards for a commute and uncoordinated schedules between adjacent agencies don't encourage ridership, much like 2 five hour layovers on a domestic flight to a destination that's 300 miles away wouldn't.

Just like we have a national park bordering a state park bordering a county park. Three separate passes / entry fees required for traversing a couple miles of trails.
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DDR
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:32 pm

Airlines have to make money when they can to support themselves when things go to shitt. And things eventually do go to shitt. It's a cycle.
 
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enilria
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:36 pm

Quoting 1g (Reply 37):

Here's the trick to that.

You can rank everybody who wants to be on a flight by how much they are willing to pay. Revenue management is the art of extracting the most they are willing to pay. By constraining capacity, airlines dispense with the passengers not willing to pay the minimum they will accept and if too many remain not paying enough, they cut capacity further. This only works if the airlines all work together either explicitly or implicitly to not chase market share.

As the number of airlines has dwindled it has become much easier to implicitly establish "capacity discipline". That's where the DOJ came in.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:07 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 10):
They are getting a beating domestically from the LCC so they are exploiting the international passenger while they can.

I sometimes get why people complain when prices seem higher than they should be, but no one ever seems concerned when the airline is charging next to nothing and hemorrhaging cash. I guess if I heard that more I'd feel bad when prices go up - but I don't. The airlines lost billions, employees have been financially abused, and now when things are finally getting sorted out, there's an outcry.

As my mom would say, airlines can't win for losing.

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 40):
so it boggles my mind why we don't dedicate more funding to expand it beyond the NEC and long-haul routes.

I am totally into trains - more than "planes" - and always will be. My stepdad worked for Amtrak up to the day he died. I have happily rode the Amtrak Cascades service in Washington state on a number of occasions, sometimes just to get off and climb on the next train heading back. I love trains.

Having said that, I really don't understand the obsession with long distance passenger service in the US? We have such an enormous aviation marketplace and a decent interstate highway system that long haul, multi-state Amtrak runs seem somewhat superfluous. Short haul corridors, I totally get and support. I have no problem with the Auto Train. but trains that run once daily across thousands of miles just seem borderline pointless when we could just as easily subsidize (at a much lower cost) a nationwide motorcoach service that connects to regional air transport hubs.

I know that people bring up weather and remote territory and so forth, but I'm sort of done with that argument. There are millions of people living without Amtrak service TODAY and they somehow survive. The rest of us can do without long distance multi-state runs as well.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
andrew50
Posts: 153
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:26 am

Still paying for bags when oil prices are so low, and $200 change fees, price gouging at it's best!!!
 
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mayor
Posts: 6218
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RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:39 am

Quoting andrew50 (Reply 46):

Still paying for bags when oil prices are so low, and $200 change fees, price gouging at it's best!!!

Don't check a bag and don't change your reservation.........problem solved!! If you still think it's gouging, take the bus or the train.....your choice.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
IPFreely
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Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:42 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
In a column on the Web site Quartz, Clinton wrote that capitalism isn't working and cited examples: pharmaceutical companies raising prices by 5,000% overnight and gouging patients, high-speed broadband pricing that is far higher in the U.S. than elsewhere, and airline fares that have not fallen despite oil price declines

If she wants to punish airlines because she thinks capitalism isn't working she should propose eliminating the EAS program.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8954
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:17 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
In a column on the Web site Quartz, Clinton wrote that capitalism isn't working

"Hillary wrote..." Oh, that's so funny! I'm still wiping away the tears of laughter.

Let's hope that her overall policy position isn't that "capitalism isn't working". Ask the Chinese and Russians how their non-capitalist systems worked. The Chinese, to their credit, are now the most voracious capitalists in the world, although they have to keep muting the explosion in their economy that has resulted from becoming capitalists, lest it overtake their ability to govern.
 
hohd
Posts: 921
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

RE: Clinton Says Airlines Are Gouging, DL Responds

Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:24 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 47):

Or book Southwest, which is the ONLY airline in the world not to charge for up to 2 bags AND not to charge for changing a reservation. If Southwest can do it, why cant others do or atleast charge less to change, may be 50 or extend the time to change from the current 24 hours to may be 7 days prior to travel. Hotels or car rental agencies don't charge,

However Hillary has a point, the non-frequent flyer has a litany of complaints against the airline, they travel infrequently and when they do, they don't like what they are getting. And majority of these travelers are potential voter base.

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