Australian Aviation Thread Part 131

allrite · Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:21 am

We're over 200 replies in the Australian Aviation Thread Part 130 so before we are involuntarily unloaded it's time to catch the next flight.

In thread 130 we discussed:

* QF PER-LHR direct?
* QF MEL-DFW with the 789?
* Rex set to expand in WA with VARA not re-tendering for some airports
* QR to add CNS? What about OOL and CBR?
* IE to codeshare with QF to Honiara
* Capex budget of QF cf with NZ
* QF93 schedule performance
* Will QF choose the 777X?
* Australia - France bilateral
* Potential for QF DXB - BER
* QF SYD-ORD? What about SYD-IAH
* QF62 and 61 on FlightAware, cancellations and via CNS
* VH-EBF is King Valley
* Possible QF acquisition?
* Badgerys Creek construction to start next year
* Second QF 737 retro roo
* Melbourne International gets busy at times
* IL76 at BNE
* Woolies drops QFF
* What will Rex replace the Saabs with?
* AA preview flight via HKG
* Thai 787 in BNE
* Passports for departures
* Australia is not New Zealand.

And with that last comment, along with the RWC and the cricket, things could get pretty tense between Middle Earth and the Western Lands. They check in their baggins and travel as Mr Underhill (or was that Mr Underarm?), Smaug about their profits, for our Elven lands where war rages not between Dwarf, Man and Orc but kangaroos and virgins.

[Edited 2015-10-25 18:23:51]

A35J · Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:03 am

Maybe add to that list EY flying their A380 to MEL from June 2016?

atal17 · Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:07 am

Yes, ETIHAD brings it's A380 to Melbourne effective 1st June

EY460/461 gets the upgrade

Source: - airlineroute.net

IndianicWorld · Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:45 am

Very significant competitive advantage it now has over QR into MEL, with EY now to have 2 x daily flights and one of those being the flagship product (A380).

This upgrade has come much faster than I would have expected. Great news.

mariner · Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:06 am

I haven't been paying a lot of attention to the Qantas/Woolies deal, but I thought this is interesting:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-looks...to-new-points-deal-with-woolworths

"Qantas looks to new points deal with Woolworths

Woolworths may not have completely pulled the plug on its Qantas Frequent Flyer partnership, with the airline now plotting a new deal for the new year.

Qantas is now working on a new take on its most mainstream retail presence, which would take effect when the existing Woolworths-Qantas contract expires on December 31st, 2015."

It's new to me, but if it's been discussed before let me know and I'll ask for deletion.

mariner

tullamarine · Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:37 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
Woolworths may not have completely pulled the plug on its Qantas Frequent Flyer partnership, with the airline now plotting a new deal for the new year.

Qantas is now working on a new take on its most mainstream retail presence, which would take effect when the existing Woolworths-Qantas contract expires on December 31st, 2015."

It's new to me, but if it's been discussed before let me know and I'll ask for deletion.

I have no doubt Qantas would love to keep Woolies in QFF. Why wouldn't they? Woolworths paid them $80M p.a. for points that generally were not used and even when they were used only had a marginal cost to the airline given they were using seats that would otherwise fly empty.

I think Woolworths have realised that EDR offered them very little; all the profits of the loyalty scheme flowed to Qantas and it built loyalty in the airline rather than the store.

Woolworths, which has a number of business issues, now faces a rejuvenated Wesfarmers which has a booming Coles as well as an even more profitable behemoth in Bunnings. It also has a very successful loyalty program in Fly Buys providing great customer data as well as providing rewards that are generally spent back in Wesfarmers stores What is even more amazing is that Wesfarmers have never had to offer Fly Buys in Bunnings. Were Masters to have been successful, I have no doubt that Wesfarmers would've flicked this switch. As it stands, it just isn't necessary.

Qantas will be disappointed to lose Woolworths and whatever replaces it won't have the penetration. Aldi wouldn't be interested. They sell on a simple low-price model. Frippery such as rewards schemes goes against their grain and Metcash is too small to really consider such an entry. Regardless, QF maintains a hugely profitable and successful FF program. Woolworths exit hurts but it is a skin wound at most.

qf2220 · Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:27 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 5):

QF, in their email announcing the changed deal to members on Sunday said:

"We are working with Woolworths on a new partnership from 2016, and will keep you posted. "

So it does sound like QF are trying to salvage something. $80m is a pretty big loss from revenue. As I said before, I wouldn't be surprised if this current 'noise' is Woolworths looking to cheapen the rate of the FFPs, whilst at the same time make their rewards program more fit for purpose.

(mariner, I think this is new to the discussion, so your post is ok)

zkncj · Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:41 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
Qantas is now working on a new take on its most mainstream retail presence, which would take effect when the existing Woolworths-Qantas contract expires on December 31st, 2015."

Flybuys style deal? like the NZ/FlyBuys deal? but that would mean flybuys would have to breakup with coles.

RyanairGuru · Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:49 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 7):

Coles own flybuys, so they won't be divorced.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 5):

The most incredible thing for me is that Woolworths disincentived it's own data mining by making it pointless to scan your card for transactions under $30. They could have a customer who shops every single day with one big shop and several small ones for milk, bread etc and possibly never even know. It wa a boggling to me that they allowed this to continue for so long, so I'm not surprised that they are moving more to a flybuys style model. The difference is that fly buys can still offer valuable rewards, so IMHO it will still be a more valuable program.

aryonoco · Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:42 am

Just out of interest, as someone who has always been in the Woolies/QF FF camp, but is considering a switch to Coles now, what does Fly Buys offer in general that's so great? What level of rewards do they generally provide?

tullamarine · Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:45 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 8):

I agree flyBuys has been going for 20 years and now has a huge amount of data on its customers. The strength of the program can be seen in the tailored emails FlyBuys members receive each week highlighting items they regularly purchase.

FlyBuys had a rough start though with crap earn rates and almost impossible reward levels. It was only when they revamped the earn rates and move away from flight rewards to in-store rewards that the program hit its straps. The tragedy for Woolworths was that they didn't learn from Coles early experience and went down a path that offered customers little and didn't actually promote customer loyalty to the stores

RyanairGuru · Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:29 am

I totally agree that flybuys in its pre-2012 incarnation was awful. The current scheme though is almost unrecognisable to what came before.

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 9):

The key feature for me is that it is straight forward and (relatively) transparent. 2,000 points = $10, and what's more it equals $10 (give or take a few cents) on EVERYTHING. The number one reward is of course vouchers/"flybuys dollars" in Coles Group stores, followed by the online rewards store for consumer electronics etc which I have little interest in (but the prices are again equal to 2,000 = $10 compared to the retail ticket price). You can also use them for travel through Webjet, and guess what the rate of exchange is? That simplicity makes the program so much easier to manage than any other rewards program I know which is why I gave up on, variously, Qantas Frequent Flyer and Commonwealth Awards and moved my credit card to flybuys. Frequent Flyer is only meaningful for points earned while flying IMHO while CBA's program is nothing more than a glorified scam, very similar to the flybuys of yore by making it almost impossible to save up enough points for a reward before they expire (on that subject flybuys MK II never expire).

bunumuring · Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:00 pm

I have been thinking ...

Soon Korean A380s into Sydney ...
Soon China Southern A380s into Sydney ...
We already have Qantas, Emirates, Singapore, Etihad flying A380s into Sydney ... with Thai and Malaysian A380s often speculated as coming into Sydney...
I wonder how long until the Qatar 777-300ER flights (which haven't even started yet) will be upgraded to A380s to play catch up?
Then all we'll need is one of the big three Euros (the E3) to fly the A380 in ... dream on, I guess!

And as for the Woolies/QFF discussion, as soon as Etihad makes it's move with Coles FlyBuys clearer, I believe we may see some action from Woolies and Qantas, and perhaps even Virgin Velocity. I seem to recall John Borghetti (who's biography I saw on sale yesterday in a local bookshop) state that the Velocity/BP tie up announced months ago would not be the last big tie-up for Velocity.

Interesting times ... and don't forget Myer One may be revamped again and expanded soon ...

And RyanairGuru, I agree about the ridiculous $30 threshold for Everyday Rewards: I AM one of those sub-$30 every-couple-of-days buyers! And it has always frustrated me. Hugely.

Cheers,
Bunumuring.

777Jet · Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:46 am

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 9):
what does Fly Buys offer in general that's so great?

I can't think of anything "so great" about either program, nor can I remember FlyBuys being held in such high regard, but having been a member of both for a few years before eventually dumping Everyday Rewards and sticking with FlyBuys, I will say that IMHO FlyBuys is better; and for one of the reasons RyanairGuru pointed out:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 11):
The key feature for me is that it is straight forward and (relatively) transparent. 2,000 points = $10, and what's more it equals $10 (give or take a few cents) on EVERYTHING.

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 9):

Is there really anything "so great" about the Everyday Rewards program that you currently use even if the relationship with the QF FF camp continued?

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 12):
I have been thinking ...

Soon Korean A380s into Sydney ...
Soon China Southern A380s into Sydney ...
We already have Qantas, Emirates, Singapore, Etihad flying A380s into Sydney ... with Thai and Malaysian A380s often speculated as coming into Sydney...
I wonder how long until the Qatar 777-300ER flights (which haven't even started yet) will be upgraded to A380s to play catch up?
Then all we'll need is one of the big three Euros (the E3) to fly the A380 in ... dream on, I guess!

I can see a daily TG A380 (with a second daily flight a few times a week with something smaller) coming to SYD as a possibility in the future (maybe before the end of 2017). not sure about a MH A380 though. Having said that, and regardless of how likely or unlikely that is, the good thing about such routes is that it would only require one frame per day and make pretty good use out of the frame whilst still having enough time between trips to accommodate some delays without affecting the following days' schedule.

As for QR, who knows... but I think will see 77W flights for some time...

aryonoco · Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:30 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 13):
Is there really anything "so great" about the Everyday Rewards program that you currently use even if the relationship with the QF FF camp continued?

No not really. I view Woolworths and Coles both with equal amount of disdain, and dream of the day when the duopoly might finally face some proper competition. As it is, there is a Woolies closer to my place than a Coles, so I've been buying mostly from them, and Everyday Rewards did come with the added benefits of QF FF points (which is of dubious benefits to me anyway).

Was justing wondering what I'd been missing from the other side, but $10 off every 2,000 points is also of extremely questionable value to me.

qf2220 · Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:55 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 8):
The most incredible thing for me is that Woolworths disincentived it's own data mining by making it pointless to scan your card for transactions under $30.

Either that or they decided it wasn't worth their time going for the sector of the market that was more convenience store like??? Perhaps they decided there was no point in tracking the 'little' spenders? After all they are in the store every day, what more could you want? They would be exposed to the in store promotions which IMO would be more effective than emails telling me about goodies to entice me into the stores.

tullamarine · Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:18 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 15):
The most incredible thing for me is that Woolworths disincentived it's own data mining by making it pointless to scan your card for transactions under $30.

Either that or they decided it wasn't worth their time going for the sector of the market that was more convenience store like??? Perhaps they decided there was no point in tracking the 'little' spenders? After all they are in the store every day, what more could you want? They would be exposed to the in store promotions which IMO would be more effective than emails telling me about goodies to entice me into the stores.

I would assume that the $30 came about because there was a transaction fee that had to paid to Qantas and under $30 it made no sense to credit any points given it would've been a cost greater than any benefit accruing to Woolworths or the customer.

qf2220 · Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:15 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 16):

$30 is also the level of spend that you need to exceed to qualify for the fuel discounts, so id say that Woolworths has some science behind the $30. I don't think it has much to do with QF, though your point is valid that under $30 there may be no point in giving points.

RyanairGuru · Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:02 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 15):

The value of rewards programs is in data mining, most notably to develop psychological profiles of your consumer base so that you can better develop marketing strategies, both generally and on an individual basis. Missing out on a potentially large part of your market devalues that information as you don't have complete profiles.

I agree with Tullamarine that the $30 minimum was largely transactional in nature, and is being done away with under the new Woolworths Rewards which accrues from $1.

You are right of course that your daily shoppers are pure gold for the supermarkets. Something like 18% of grocery purchases are spontaneous.

qf2220 · Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:21 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 18):
The value of rewards programs is in data mining,

No disagreement here but maybe Woolworths decided the cost benefit of data mining the sub $30 customers wasn't worth.

XAM2175 · Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:16 pm

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 15):
Either that or they decided it wasn't worth their time going for the sector of the market that was more convenience store like??? Perhaps they decided there was no point in tracking the 'little' spenders?

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 19):
No disagreement here but maybe Woolworths decided the cost benefit of data mining the sub $30 customers wasn't worth.

It does have a way though of sending the message though that that customer's spending is unimportant and almost unwanted. Somebody who spends twenty-odd dollars a day five or so days a week is in overall spend the same as somebody spending $100-ish in one day, but only the latter customer is being rewarded for it. Plus the daily shopper is getting a lot more exposure to impulse opportunities and, I'd argue, more likely to respond to a loyalty program as opposed to choosing based on pure convenience, especially where Coles and Woolworths have stores very close together.

QF108 · Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:03 am

Question for the QF a.nutters, with QF PER-AKL about to commence in a couple of days (October) 30, leaving Perth on the Friday, and the return flight from AKL-PER not operating until the Sunday. Is the A330 sitting idle, undergoing some maintenance or is it routed somewhere else on the Saturday. Cheers Aussie

qf2220 · Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:11 am

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 20):
It does have a way though of sending the message though that that customer's spending is unimportant and almost unwanted.

No it doesn't. A dollar of spend is a dollar of spend regardless of who and how often they do it. What it might say is that it doesn't really benefit Woolworths to datamine someone who is a) a one off visitor spending a little bit (ie using it like a convenience store), b) always in the store so susceptible to in store promotions or c) other options.

Lets go back to where the $30 came from, thinking about it more, this was probably a threshold set to make sure that the fuel discount given when you spend above $30 paid for itself, ie they were not going out backwards in profit terms. 4c/L on say an average 50L purchase is a $2 discount. If you spent $2 in store and got the 4c/L discount, Woolworths is in an immediate loss. This doesn't count for margins either, so $30 must have been a breakeven point by their calcs. This was then just carried over into the QF points earning scheme probably for administrative efficiency.

777Jet · Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:25 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 16):
I would assume that the $30 came about because there was a transaction fee that had to paid to Qantas and under $30 it made no sense to credit any points given it would've been a cost greater than any benefit accruing to Woolworths or the customer.

Interesting point and if correct, I can't say I blame Woolies for doing this.

All I know is that with FlyBuys, if I spend one dollar I get one point - at worst.

I always get at least triple points per dollar spent (no minimum spend requirement) because of all of the coupons they send me and by the end of the year I usually have about $1,000 worth of rewards value. I also always use my Amex card and get 2 points per dollar put on that as well - Coles must hate me for the number of times I've swiped my Amex just to buy a piece of fruit that costs less than a dollar

XAM2175 · Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:26 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 22):
If you spent $2 in store and got the 4c/L discount, Woolworths is in an immediate loss.

I don't see the connection there, sorry. Coles offer FlyBuys with no real minimum spend but their fuel discount doesn't apply until you spend more than $30 in a single transaction.

Coles do offer transaction incentives with FlyBuys - ie at certain times one will be offered triple points or a set bonus amount as long as the single-transaction spend exceeds a certain amount - sometimes $40, sometimes $90, sometimes even $100-plus, but the base points earn is there from the moment your first item is scanned.

And Woolworth's scheme is the one called "Everyday" Rewards...

(unless I've misunderstood what's being said and it's fuel discounts that have come under discussion)

Sydscott · Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:30 am

To somewhat digress from the discussion over which Supermarket chains "loyalty" program is less useless, a new book on Qantas has just been published.

http://www.macleansbooks.com.au/prod...eatAustralianAirline-9781760113551

There is a review and excerpt on the Herald Sun website behind the paywall and some of it sounds pretty hilarious.

IndianicWorld · Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:35 am

Wow, the Woolworths debate is still going on

In other news, with the announcement of EY's MEL A380 launch next year, it will be interesting to see how long it takes for them to look at replacing the 3 x weekly VA flight on SYD-AUH. Its likely the next move it will make, as it will actually have more of its own capacity into MEL than SYD for the first time with these changes.

The biggest issue is finding a role for the VA 77W currently utilised to AUH, which really has very limited options available for it to use it on.

777Jet · Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:37 am

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 24):
Coles do offer transaction incentives with FlyBuys - ie at certain times one will be offered triple points or a set bonus amount as long as the single-transaction spend exceeds a certain amount - sometimes $40, sometimes $90, sometimes even $100-plus, but the base points earn is there from the moment your first item is scanned.

Mine came in the mail this morning.

Every other week it's triple points on your biggest spend for that week. Every other week it's 500 bonus points if you spend over $120 in one transaction.

Sometimes they send out the following deal; spend more than $120 per week in one transaction each week over 4 weeks and get 10,000 bonus fly buys points.

Since I always spend that much anyway it's a no brainer!

Also, I still get triple points on the $120 plus I spend each week under that promotion as well as the bonus points.

I find it much, much quicker to accumulate FlyBuys points than the useless points I got when I was an Everyday Reward of nothing member...

FlyBuys have a deal now where if you take out Coles life insurance by the end of November you get 2 points for every dollar spent in any FlyBuys participating outlet all the time I'm pretty sure as long as you hold the policy.

Last week I used the following coupon: buy one 1kg tub of Coles yogurt and get 500 bonus points (which is worth $2.50) and from memory the yogurt was $3 so not a bad deal there.

They are just some examples of the FlyBuys offers.

qf2220 · Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:45 am

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 24):
I don't see the connection there, sorry. Coles offer FlyBuys with no real minimum spend but their fuel discount doesn't apply until you spend more than $30 in a single transaction.

What im saying is that there is a commercial reason that the $30 threshold exists, most probably based on the fuel discount earning threshold. WOW have just applied that to the QF earning too, for whatever reason that we don't know.

Quoting XAM2175 (Reply 24):
And Woolworth's scheme is the one called "Everyday" Rewards...

That's marketing for you!

Whilst we are talking marketing, can you actually fly with Flybuys? Can you earn Flybuys via flights?

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 26):
Wow, the Woolworths debate is still going on

All this talk about planes and aviation and stuff is getting boring.... Hahaha

IndianicWorld · Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:55 am

Quoting QF2220 (Reply 28):
All this talk about planes and aviation and stuff is getting boring.... Hahaha

Haha... I guess theres a link.. a small one

aryonoco · Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:03 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 23):
because of all of the coupons they send me and by the end of the year I usually have about $1,000 worth of rewards value

If 2,000 points give you $10 rewards, and even assuming that you get 4 points for every dollar spent, that means you have to spend $50,000 a year at Coles to get $1,000?

You spend $50,000 on supermarket groceries a year?

So at the end of the day, best case scenario, it's a 2% discount. Meh. I can live without a 2% discount.

For comparison, my ING visa debit card gives me 2% cash back on all paywave transactions, at any store, anywhere. No fees, no loyalty program to join, no minimum spend, no time-limited offers. Sure this is comparing apples and oranges, but my point is if my bank gives me 2% money back on every transaction, I'd expect a bit more from a supermarket loyalty program.

777Jet · Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:36 am

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 30):
You spend $50,000 on supermarket groceries a year?

No, not even close.

Last time I checked you can earn FlyBuys points at many more places than just the Supermarket:

Coles
Coles Express
LiquorLand (I might spend close to 50K per year in this fine store!)
AGL Energy
Target
K Mart
K Mart Tyre & Auto
Telstra
WebJet
Budget Rental Car
NAB
Adidas
Garmin
OPSM
Medibank
and several other FlyBuys partners...

I've probably put about 20K worth of transactions (just guessing) on my FlyBuys card this year and I've currently got $850 worth of 'points' on it and that is only including what I've put on it this year. I have taken advantage of some very generous 'bonus points' offers however to get to that amount of points so easily

I might have even earned FlyBuys points even by shopping in the enemy Woolies if there was no other choice by paying with a NAB FlyBuys card, or earned FlyBuys points by putting QF flights on a NAB FlyBuys card... Hmmmm...

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 30):
So at the end of the day, best case scenario, it's a 2% discount. Meh. I can live without a 2% discount.

But you sure do go on about a similar 2% below, just saying:

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 30):
For comparison, my ING visa debit card gives me 2% cash back on all paywave transactions, at any store, anywhere. No fees, no loyalty program to join, no minimum spend, no time-limited offers. Sure this is comparing apples and oranges, but my point is if my bank gives me 2% money back on every transaction, I'd expect a bit more from a supermarket loyalty program.

TravelR · Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:01 am

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 30):
If 2,000 points give you $10 rewards, and even assuming that you get 4 points for every dollar spent, that means you have to spend $50,000 a year at Coles to get $1,000?

You spend $50,000 on supermarket groceries a year?

So at the end of the day, best case scenario, it's a 2% discount. Meh. I can live without a 2% discount.

Think it might actually be only 0.5%. If you spent $50,000 then based on that you would get $250 in discounts.

I think Supabarn is slightly more generous as you need to earn 2000 points and they $20 so that would be 1%. I think the main drawcard of Flybuys is the conversion of 10000 points to 4000 Etihad Guest miles. You will also be able to earn status too.

Jetstar315 · Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:14 am

In reply to IndianicWorld:
Either put the B777Ws on MEL-SFO/YVR/SEA/LAS etc and similar out of BNE or maybe transfer the VA 777Ws to Air New Zealand's fleet to give the Kiwis some instant expansion and replace them at VA with more A330s. VA could then just concentrate on Australia/NZ/South Pacific and Asia. Just a thought??

TruemanQLD · Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:53 am

Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 33):
Either put the B777Ws on MEL-SFO/YVR/SEA/LAS etc and similar out of BNE or maybe transfer the VA 777Ws to Air New Zealand's fleet to give the Kiwis some instant expansion and replace them at VA with more A330s. VA could then just concentrate on Australia/NZ/South Pacific and Asia. Just a thought??

If they withdraw from SYD-AUH, it's only 1 frame so I doubt the expansion would be from anywhere other than SYD. Either add some more capacity on SYD-LAX to fight back against the new AA/QF expansion, alternatively launch an unserved destination, like LAS or SEA.

I don't see either option as likely but their options are limited.

QF175 · Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:15 am

Per Airlineroute.net, Air Canada will bring forward the start date of its new Vancouver - Brisbane flights from 17 June 2016 to 1 June 2016. Flights are now on sale for the additional 2 week period are now on sale.

Source

aerokiwi · Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:06 pm

Just responding to some points in thread 130:

1. E-gate at departure has been used in New Zealand for several years now and is bloody great. I have no idea why Australia has been so slow on the uptake, but it has been, despite leading the introduction of e-passports. I don't think asking why this is the case is high horsedness (?). I'd ask why you weren't asking the same question? But good to hear they are finally happening.

Interesting point on the increased access to them for non-Aus/NZ travellers. Though if you have luggage, you can often sail through only to wait 30 minutes for your bag to pop out. I've had this in MEL, SYD and AKL in the past few weeks.

2. The shareholding of an airline is of mostly zero interest to me. To suggest that my (mostly Aussie - I'm based in Melbourne 80% of the year) work colleagues give two hoots who owns an airline when making a call on travel budgets is pretty far-fetched, though I guess not in Anet land, where

3. Yes, charging stations are pretty standard at airport facilities around the developed world. Get them. Even the US, where airport infrastructure appears to be catching up and surpassing Australian facilities.

4. Qantas onboard amenities on domestic flights are pretty average. What I have noticed is that their Link crews are super friendly and they manage to do a full service quick smart on SYD-MEL, whereas the VA crews often cut it short. I suspect the reason is the pay-as-you-go system which they really have to fix - it's so damn slow.

Overall though, if your work travel policy is to take the cheapest that fits with the schedule, there really is no incentive to go for any premium Qantas charges.

5. Does anyone have an answer for reply 21 re the QF 330 siting in Auckland over the weekend?

TN486 · Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:20 pm

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 25):
To somewhat digress from the discussion over which Supermarket chains "loyalty" program is less useless, a new book on Qantas has just been published.

http://www.macleansbooks.com.au/prod...eatAustralianAirline-9781760113551

There is a review and excerpt on the Herald Sun website behind the paywall and some of it sounds pretty hilarious.

I read the double page spread in the Melbourne Herald/Sun on Sunday 26/10 and bought the book at 0900 on Monday 27/10 (partly because I have an extensive library on QF books) but also because it seemed to be coming from left field. And WOW, what a book. I am up to page 147 (there are 344 pages), and I have alternately laughed, cried (yes, tears), and swelled with that fantastic Aussie pride. I am going to buy it for my mate in America (Qantas59), to add to his collection.
In short, it is a fantastic read, I recommend you buy it (Nope, I am not the author!!) although I wish I was, his experiences are something to die for, cheers all. Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oy, Oy, Oy

Gemuser · Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 25):
To somewhat digress from the discussion over which Supermarket chains "loyalty" program is less useless, a new book on Qantas has just been published.

Just to add: If you are an e-book reader its available on Amazon & Kobo for much, much less on Amazon about $A13. Just downloaded my copy and it looks like a good read from the bit of Ch 1 I've read.

Gemuser

bunumuring · Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:20 pm

re aviation books:
Anyone bought and read the John Borghetti biography? I saw it last weekend but didn't buy it as I hadn't read any reviews of it.
I'm curious about what it may contain. Some interesting insights into the whole DJ-to-VA transition?
cheers,
Bunumuring.

DeltaB717 · Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:24 pm

Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 33):
Either put the B777Ws on MEL-SFO/YVR/SEA/LAS

Really!? SFO maybe. Maybe! But an airline that couldn't make MEL-LAX work at 3x weekly isn't going to start 3x weekly MEL-YVR, SEA or LAS, none of which have ever been tried and only one of which even has a service to SYD. Sorry, but no.

Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 33):
transfer the VA 777Ws to Air New Zealand's fleet to give the Kiwis some instant expansion and replace them at VA with more A330s.

More merit in this suggestion, methinks

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 34):
If they withdraw from SYD-AUH, it's only 1 frame so I doubt the expansion would be from anywhere other than SYD. Either add some more capacity on SYD-LAX to fight back against the new AA/QF expansion, alternatively launch an unserved destination, like LAS or SEA.

I don't see either option as likely but their options are limited.

Here's what comes to my mind. SYD-LAX 3x weekly to replace the DL service on those days, allowing DL to start 3x weekly SYD-SEA. Or allowing DL to start 3x weekly LAX-BNE/MEL.

6thfreedom · Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:18 pm

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 34):
If they withdraw from SYD-AUH, it's only 1 frame so I doubt the expansion would be from anywhere other than SYD.

with 1 frame and some clever scheduling they could open a market such as HKG. average sector length of about 9.5 hours means 19 hours flying and about 5 hours ground time either side.

this could link in with VS in HKG, but also partners via HKG to reach into China and North Asia.

tullamarine · Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:50 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 41):
with 1 frame and some clever scheduling they could open a market such as HKG. average sector length of about 9.5 hours means 19 hours flying and about 5 hours ground time either side.

this could link in with VS in HKG, but also partners via HKG to reach into China and North Asia

HKG makes more sense with A330. 77W is probably too much plane.

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 40):
Really!? SFO maybe. Maybe! But an airline that couldn't make MEL-LAX work at 3x weekly isn't going to start 3x weekly MEL-YVR, SEA or LAS, none of which have ever been tried and only one of which even has a service to SYD. Sorry, but no.

3 X weekly doesn't make much sense on any US route because the frequency issue turns off J class pax. VA made the sensible decision of going daily on BNE-LAX and, apparently, their J loads have improved significantly on that sector.

MEL is an issue because there is significant competition from QF and UA and the 77W is not the ideal aircraft from a range or capacity viewpoint. 789 or A359 look like the better options if VA are ever to return to LAX-MEL.

smi0006 · Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:45 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 26):

In other news, with the announcement of EY's MEL A380 launch next year, it will be interesting to see how long it takes for them to look at replacing the 3 x weekly VA flight on SYD-AUH. Its likely the next move it will make, as it will actually have more of its own capacity into MEL than SYD for the first tim

A bit random and maybe a challenge for aircraft rotation, but what about a return to MEL-JNB? A lot has changed since the last attempt- bigger market share, NZ and SA feed, ETOPS changes. Last time was good full reasonable yields I believe, it was the extra flight time a detours that killed it. Although QF have increased capacity and are in a stronger position this time, but with an older product than VA would offer.

With the cooling off of the transcontinental route I would have thought it would have been a good chance for VA to send their A330s overseas, SIN or HKG from BNE or PER build themselves a niche against QF with SQ support. Although the challenge part is balancing EY and SQ interests. What share do they both currently have ?

sq256 · Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:52 am

Another suggestion is VA using the spare 77W to take over one of SQ's many East Coast-SIN frequencies, with SQ re-deploying the displaced aircraft to increase frequency elsewhere.

Other option is SFO from BNE or SYD, but x3 frequency against the dailies from UA or the soon to start 6x from QF isn't attractive to J passengers.

qfvhoqa · Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:17 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 40):
Here's what comes to my mind. SYD-LAX 3x weekly to replace the DL service on those days, allowing DL to start 3x weekly SYD-SEA. Or allowing DL to start 3x weekly LAX-BNE/MEL.

I don't get SYD-SEA as a potential route. It offers very few connections not available via LAX (mostly in Alaska) and has far lower O&D. I doubt DL would give up daily service to SYD for that.
Should EY want to have 2x daily presence on AUH-SYD then VA could switch to 10x weekly SYD-LAX. AFAIK EY & VA don't revenue-share for SYD-AUH so it might be in both their interests to let EY take it all.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 41):
with 1 frame and some clever scheduling they could open a market such as HKG.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 42):
HKG makes more sense with A330. 77W is probably too much plane.

QF's recent difficulty in gaining additional slots at HKG probably rules out VA flying there.

qf789 · Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:44 am

Quoting QF108 (Reply 21):
Question for the QF a.nutters, with QF PER-AKL about to commence in a couple of days (October) 30, leaving Perth on the Friday, and the return flight from AKL-PER not operating until the Sunday. Is the A330 sitting idle, undergoing some maintenance or is it routed somewhere else on the Saturday. Cheers Aussie

Back in March they had a couple of PER-AKL services similar to what is happening from this weekend which the aircraft just sat on the ground from the Sat morning arrival to the Sun afternoon departure.

Have heard a rumour that we will soon see a 787 in different colours in the not too distance future at PER

DeltaB717 · Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:05 am

Quoting qf789 (Reply 46):
Have heard a rumour that we will soon see a 787 in different colours in the not too distance future at PER

Wouldn't be EY, would it?

CXfirst · Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:44 am

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this already (quick search of this thread and last thread showed no results).

The new Virgin pier at PER has been confirmed to open on Sunday, the 22nd of November, with the ADL morning turn (VA713/714) being the first arrival and first departure out of the new pier.

Also, this pier will allow aerobridge boarding directly to F100s, unlike at T3, so should be an all-round better experience, albeit a very very delayed experience.

-CXfirst

CupraIbiza · Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:36 am

I dont want to sound like a broken record
QF93 is scheduled to depart at 1020. Today its been delayed (again) and is now expected to depart at 1940!!

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