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Emirates773ER
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Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:13 pm

Emirates has been hiring pilots and FA's in Calgary this past week. With the liberals back in power it seems UAE will be back on the negotiating table with Canadian Transportation minister. Chances of Emirates starting Vancouver or Calgary next seem pretty high.

http://calgaryherald.com/business/lo...-recruitment-initiative-in-calgary
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
migair54
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:18 pm

Maybe, but before starting YYC or YVR I think they will add more Toronto and open Montreal.

Actually I think EK should get some more access to Canada.
 
Thomaas
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:25 pm

I doubt EK will be getting any further Canadian rights for a while. The liberals weren't very happy about getting the base evicted from the UAE either. The UAE govt. shot itself in the foot by tying air rights negotiations with the military.
 
Beatyair
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:26 pm

Qatar tried to get a foothold here in Calgary, to fly direct flights between the middleeast and Calgary and Air Canada raised a stink. There are quiet a few people that work in the middle east from here. They do currently bring freight through.
 
a380787
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:30 pm

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 2):

I doubt EK will be getting any further Canadian rights for a while. The liberals weren't very happy about getting the base evicted from the UAE either. The UAE govt. shot itself in the foot by tying air rights negotiations with the military.

That was really dumb on UAE's part. Tying air traffic to politics always hurt the consumer in the end.
 
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thekorean
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:32 pm

Canada shouldn't give in to UAE. Protect the home turf against countries that has nothing to offer back.


Canada doesn't need ME3. Its not gonna stimulate almost any traffic to Canada that weren't gonna fly other carriers.
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:32 pm

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 2):
I doubt EK will be getting any further Canadian rights for a while. The liberals weren't very happy about getting the base evicted from the UAE either. The UAE govt. shot itself in the foot by tying air rights negotiations with the military.

No liberal that I know of cares about the conservative government antics of the past. Emirates declared at the recruitment event that talks with Transportation Canada will start in January.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 1):

Maybe, but before starting YYC or YVR I think they will add more Toronto and open Montreal.

Agreed, although I am sure they will jump on servicing YYC or YVR if they dont get Toronto daily.

[Edited 2015-10-28 13:33:41]
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Emirates773ER
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:37 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 5):
Canada shouldn't give in to UAE. Protect the home turf against countries that has nothing to offer back.


Canada doesn't need ME3. Its not gonna stimulate almost any traffic to Canada that weren't gonna fly other carriers.

Not sure what you are talking about. There is no direct service between western canada and south east asia. A huge immigrant population lives in YYC, YEG and YVR who fill up 30% of emirates flights out of SEA.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
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thekorean
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:39 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 7):

For good reasons. They will find another way.
 
AirbusCanada
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:38 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 5):
Canada shouldn't give in to UAE. Protect the home turf against countries that has nothing to offer back.


Canada doesn't need ME3. Its not gonna stimulate almost any traffic to Canada that weren't gonna fly other carriers

Protect the home turf from whom?

The best idea would be to sign open air agreement with Qatar and or UAE in return for a triple digit CSeries order. Win win for both sides at the expense of European majors.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:41 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Thread starter):
Emirates has been hiring pilots and FA's in Calgary this past week.

There is no connection between where Emirates hires and where they fly. Emirates hires pilots and flight attendants from all over the world; most of them probably come from places where EK doesn't fly and never will.
a.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:08 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 7):

Quoting thekorean (Reply 5):
Canada shouldn't give in to UAE. Protect the home turf against countries that has nothing to offer back.


Canada doesn't need ME3. Its not gonna stimulate almost any traffic to Canada that weren't gonna fly other carriers.

Not sure what you are talking about. There is no direct service between western canada and south east asia. A huge immigrant population lives in YYC, YEG and YVR who fill up 30% of emirates flights out of SEA.

So instead of changing planes at DXB, those folks can change planes in cities such as NRT, PEK, ICN and HKG to name a few.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:42 pm

Didn't EK just apply for a good bit of Canadian codeshares with AS?

Backdoor access?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Viscount724
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:56 pm

The EK recruitment event in YYC has nothing to do with future service to YYC. EK has recruitment events all over the world. I've been at several hotels in various countries where such events were taking place (also QR and EY). They go where the pilots and cabin crew are and quite a few are based in YYC, and I expect EK has a fair number of pilots and cabin crew from Canada, and dozens of other countries all over the world.

Current list of cabin crew recruitment events in more than 40 countries:
http://www.emiratesgroupcareers.com/..._crew/CabinCrewAssessmentDays.aspx

[Edited 2015-10-28 17:01:23]
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:00 pm

Considering AC reduced their Calgary-LHR frequencies, why would not EK be given more access. Clearly AC think there isn't demand to justify the route; then why are they scared to open up the market.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
CXfirst
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:08 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
There is no connection between where Emirates hires and where they fly. Emirates hires pilots and flight attendants from all over the world; most of them probably come from places where EK doesn't fly and never will.

   Canada is just a place with a large amount of generally well trained pilots, whom Emirates believes can be convinced to move to and work in Dubai.

-CXfirst
 
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yowza
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:30 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Thread starter):
With the liberals back in power it seems UAE will be back on the negotiating table with Canadian Transportation minister. Chances of Emirates starting Vancouver or Calgary next seem pretty high.

The O&D based stance of the feds has been in place for decades. I have a hard time seeing that changing any time soon.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 1):
Maybe, but before starting YYC or YVR I think they will add more Toronto and open Montreal.

This is not EK's first rodeo. They are cleverly using different cities (and their airports) across Canada to generate buzz and hype to try and develop a narrative and cast of supporting characters that will help them come negotiation time. Calgary seems to be an easy locale in which to drum up this kind of support. They have previously done similar exercises both in Montreal and Vancouver.

Even if bilaterals change dramatically (by some miracle) and EK's share or frequencies leaps to 21 I suspect the progression would be: Ramp up YYZ to go daily > Ramp up YYZ to go double daily > Add YUL daily. That's 21 gone. Needless to say YVR would be the next most attractive. The only way this would go differently is if EY preempted EK and took a stranglehold of either YUL or YVR. But of course that would require the bilateral to go from 7/week to 42/week. The chances of that are zero.

We've seen this same pattern before with EK most notably in South Africa where the same kind of upward pressure was orchestrated from multiple municipalities. In that case Durban was strung along for a long time doing the mouthpiece work for EK but didn't see service till 2009 after JNB had become multiple daily and CPT was also online.

BTW does anyone have recent PDEW data from YYC to the SAARC countries?

Quoting Qatara340 (Reply 14):
Considering AC reduced their Calgary-LHR frequencies, why would not EK be given more access. Clearly AC think there isn't demand to justify the route; then why are they scared to open up the market.

Will Qatar be joining in on the all sectors free market free-for-all you're describing or is that advice just for us here in Canada?  

YOWza
 
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c172akula
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:38 pm

Quoting Beatyair (Reply 3):
Qatar tried to get a foothold here in Calgary, to fly direct flights between the middleeast and Calgary and Air Canada raised a stink. There are quiet a few people that work in the middle east from here. They do currently bring freight through.

Qatar doesn't fly cargo to YYC (on their own metal). The exception to this is two flights over the last two years that brought show jumping horses here for the competitions at Spruce Meadows. Both times operated by a 77F.
 
tortugamon
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:31 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 7):
A huge immigrant population lives in YYC, YEG and YVR who fill up 30% of emirates flights out of SEA.

Do you have a source for this? I believe that a large part of SEA-DXB travel is a result of Canada-originating traffic but I've never been able to gain a solid source. Obviously we know the number of seats on SEA-DXB that AS is responsible for but that comes from the entire PNW/Canada region so I don't know the breakdown. Thanks.

tortugamon
 
centrex
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:42 pm

Agree on the SEA-DBX traffic. Now EK is double daily on SEA! I can believe a quarter of the traffic could be from Canada, Vancouver, Calgary etc. And while EK does not get further traffic rights to CAN, SEA gets the international long haul flights while YVR is left with only feeding into SEA. Kind of sucks for them
 
AirNovaBAe146
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:44 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 7):
Not sure what you are talking about. There is no direct service between western canada and south east asia. A huge immigrant population lives in YYC, YEG and YVR who fill up 30% of emirates flights out of SEA.

....not to mention a large new international terminal at YYC opening in the next year or so, which will need to be filled. As well as a 14,000 ft runway that can be used to launch a fully-loaded widebody anywhere in the world. And a WestJet hub that can draw traffic from anywhere in Western Canada.

Sounds like a winner to me.

[Edited 2015-10-29 07:47:40]
 
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yowza
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:54 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 18):
I believe that a large part of SEA-DXB travel is a result of Canada-originating traffic but I've never been able to gain a solid source. Obviously we know the number of seats on SEA-DXB that AS is responsible for but that comes from the entire PNW/Canada region so I don't know the breakdown.

If the recent AS press release is to be used as the basis of a calculation then I find this 30% number tough to beleive.

AS claims they feed EK 2500 pax a week. For the 30% to hold up that would mean 750 PAX would need to originate in YYC, YEG, YVR. Seems on the high side to me but I am more than willing to be corrected by a reputable data source.

The overall 2500 number is also interesting to me too. Currently EK 227 and 229 run daily offering 620 seats daily (77L and 77W respectively). This adds up to 4340 seats weekly. This would suggest that AS provides ~58% of the feed. Can this be right?!

YOWza
 
tortugamon
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:54 pm

Quoting yowza (Reply 21):
The overall 2500 number is also interesting to me too. Currently EK 227 and 229 run daily offering 620 seats daily (77L and 77W respectively). This adds up to 4340 seats weekly. This would suggest that AS provides ~58% of the feed. Can this be right?!

I haven't checked your numbers but last I did the math I came out around 50% as well. I found another website that said ~33% but I couldn't follow their math (onemileatatime). Kind of shocking but at the same time SEA itself can't support double daily so it has to come from somewhere. I do believe that AS is connecting traffic from SFO/LAX/Other Cali destinations which only offer one per day DXB service and which aircraft fly almost directly over SEA.

No wonder EK has launched a codeshare with AS.

Quoting yowza (Reply 21):
If the recent AS press release is to be used as the basis of a calculation then I find this 30% number tough to beleive.

AS claims they feed EK 2500 pax a week. For the 30% to hold up that would mean 750 PAX would need to originate in YYC, YEG, YVR. Seems on the high side to me but I am more than willing to be corrected by a reputable data source

I find it hard to believe as well. I think most of the traffic comes from the PNW (first) and then Cali and Canada being similar but I don't have any data to support it.

tortugamon
 
migair54
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:15 pm

Quoting yowza (Reply 16):
Even if bilaterals change dramatically (by some miracle) and EK's share or frequencies leaps to 21 I suspect the progression would be: Ramp up YYZ to go daily > Ramp up YYZ to go double daily > Add YUL daily. That's 21 gone. Needless to say YVR would be the next most attractive. The only way this would go differently is if EY preempted EK and took a stranglehold of either YUL or YVR. But of course that would require the bilateral to go from 7/week to 42/week. The chances of that are zero.

Even if they change the bilateral, we have to consider EY in this equation, because currently they don't have any access to Canada, and I am sure that if UAE gets some more rights they will have to give part of the cake to EY, so if they increase to for example 28 weekly, maybe 14 each or 17/11, but not all the rights will go to EK, that's for sure.

I think at least 1 daily in YYZ, YUL and YVR should be allowed to the UAE, Canadian government has to look after the pax also, not only about Air Canada. But then QR will come making noise also, so it's a difficult balance.

As you mention, we will not see YYC in EK network until they have many more rights in Canada, YVR and YUL are much ahead in the list.

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 15):
   Canada is just a place with a large amount of generally well trained pilots, whom Emirates believes can be convinced to move to and work in Dubai.

The difficult part is going to be convincing them to move to EK and DXB, specially if you have read some other discussions about the life and conditions in EK. Canadian pilots are usually very good by the way.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 12):
Didn't EK just apply for a good bit of Canadian codeshares with AS?

Backdoor access?

Seattle-Edmonton Horizon Air / SkyWest
Seattle-Kelowna Horizon Air
Seattle-Vancouver Horizon Air
Seattle-Calgary Horizon Air
Seattle-Victoria Horizon Air

Nothing bad with that, if EK can't fly their own metal EK needs to offer pax the options somehow, but the agreement is much more than Canada, for more info. All airlines do that.
Alaska And Emirates To Codeshare (by flyoregon Oct 26 2015 in Civil Aviation)
 
tortugamon
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:22 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 23):
Nothing bad with that, if EK can't fly their own metal EK needs to offer pax the options somehow, but the agreement is much more than Canada, for more info. All airlines do that.

I've read that the second daily BOS service is partially driven by Canada as well. Porter and to a lesser extent Westjet.

tortugamon
 
greggariouspdx
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:29 pm

I'm sure the new PM, Justin Trudeau, would love to see EK start service in Montreal at the Airport named after his late Father.
 
kdonohue
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:36 pm

migair54, EY does have access to Canada. Three flights a week to Toronto, which began in 2005. The UAE carriers were given six flights a week, and Etihad picked up three before Emirates did, so EK was left with just the three remaining.
 
migair54
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:14 pm

Quoting kdonohue (Reply 26):
migair54, EY does have access to Canada. Three flights a week to Toronto, which began in 2005. The UAE carriers were given six flights a week, and Etihad picked up three before Emirates did, so EK was left with just the three remaining.

I should have checked that, but anyway, my point is confirm now, I don't think we will see UAE-Canada increasing significally the bilateral, and only half of that will go to EK, if they are lucky they will get to serve daily YYZ and 3-4 weekly YUL, same for EY, so maybe because they don't serve SEA, they could go for YVR rather than YUL.
 
KaiTak747
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:17 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 5):

Canada shouldn't give in to UAE. Protect the home turf against countries that has nothing to offer back.

What about denying their citizens cheaper air travel options?

Personally, I love the ME3, I can travel to hundreds of destinations in Asia from the UK at very reasonable prices. If the UK had similar policies to Canada, the only winners would be BA and VS, but millions of people just like me would be paying far more to travel to certain countries abroad.

Edit: The ME3 predominantly carry people from Canada to South/South East Asia. Where do AC fly in South/South East Asia?

[Edited 2015-10-29 10:19:23]
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:10 pm

Quoting yowza (Reply 16):
Will Qatar be joining in on the all sectors free market free-for-all you're describing or is that advice just for us here in Canada?  

I'm not sure about Qatar; I was referring to EK, which I admire its strategy a lot.

I was describing a question, which AC posed previously-- there just isn't demand to justify more three flights a week to Canada, and it will hurt AC's interest. If clearly the market to Calgary is lower because of this reduction, they not let EK step in and fill he void?

Is AC going to pull a Delta, and whine about subsidies and all that nonsense?
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
Whiteguy
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:04 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 23):


Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 12):
Didn't EK just apply for a good bit of Canadian codeshares with AS?

Backdoor access?

Seattle-Edmonton Horizon Air / SkyWest
Seattle-Kelowna Horizon Air
Seattle-Vancouver Horizon Air
Seattle-Calgary Horizon Air
Seattle-Victoria Horizon Air

Nothing bad with that, if EK can't fly their own metal EK needs to offer pax the options somehow, but the agreement is much more than Canada, for more info. All airlines do that.

EK doesn't need "backdoor" access since they codeshare with WS anyway......

Quoting Qatara340 (Reply 14):

Considering AC reduced their Calgary-LHR frequencies, why would not EK be given more access. Clearly AC think there isn't demand to justify the route; then why are they scared to open up the market.


AC hasn't reduced any YYC-LHR frequency that they don't normally do. They still run a daily flight out of YYC which is going to be upgraded to a 787 next winter and summer.

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 20):

....not to mention a large new international terminal at YYC opening in the next year or so, which will need to be filled. As well as a 14,000 ft runway that can be used to launch a fully-loaded widebody anywhere in the world. And a WestJet hub that can draw traffic from anywhere in Western Canada.

Sounds like a winner to me.

[Edited 2015-10-29 07:47:40]

This idea that a new runway will all of a sudden bring in all kinds of widebodies makes me laugh. The current runway was able to do that. The fact is, you need to fill seats and those markets aren't necessarily there...

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):

Quoting Emirates773ER (Thread starter):
Emirates has been hiring pilots and FA's in Calgary this past week.

There is no connection between where Emirates hires and where they fly. Emirates hires pilots and flight attendants from all over the world; most of them probably come from places where EK doesn't fly and never will.


Exactly, no connection between the two at all!!
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:06 pm

From what I heard at the event, EK has priority list for Canadian airports. They would like daily YYZ flight and YVR flights. Montreal is a third option due to competition from QR and smaller immigrant population compared to Western Canada.

With the oil boom Alberta, Saskatchewan and Southern BC have seen a big surge in immigrant population who travel back to South East Asia on a more frequent basis. There are synergies between Alberta and the Middle East due to oil based economies that Emirates can put to good use. Many oilfield service companies like Baker Hughes, Halliburton and Schlumberger send employees to Abu Dhabi for training.

Will provide an update once talks get under way early next year.
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Emirates773ER
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:07 pm

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 30):
Exactly, no connection between the two at all!!

I never said there was a connection between hiring and servicing YYC.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:15 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 5):
Protect the home turf against countries that has nothing to offer back.

They have a lot to offer back: trade through cargo, bringing business traffic as well as tourists into Canada, protecting Canadians from monopoly pricing by AC, etc. Don't mistake the interests of an airline with those of the country as a whole. AC wants as little competition as possible on its routes; Canada as a whole needs more carriers and competition.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:36 pm

are the ME3 covered by the same bilateral with Canada?
 
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Acey
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:47 pm

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 30):
AC hasn't reduced any YYC-LHR frequency that they don't normally do. They still run a daily flight out of YYC which is going to be upgraded to a 787 next winter and summer.

If by "normally" you mean S14, then sure... but S16 is down to 7x from the 11x of S15, which by my count is a reduction.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:00 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 24):
I've read that the second daily BOS service is partially driven by Canada as well. Porter and to a lesser extent Westjet

PD only serves YTZ-BOS and WS only adds YHZ along with YYZ.

B6 is a bigger driver for the 2nd BOS flight along with better connecting opportunities for BOS originating/destination pax.

I really think EK wanted to keep QR and EY out of BOS too (which didn't work of course with QR).
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
tortugamon
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 36):
PD only serves YTZ-BOS and WS only adds YHZ along with YYZ.

B6 is a bigger driver for the 2nd BOS flight along with better connecting opportunities for BOS originating/destination pax.

I agree that B6 is a bigger driver but I have read that the flight times were such that they were trying to tie in some Canada destinations, however small, as well.

tortugamon
 
AirNovaBAe146
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:17 pm

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 30):
This idea that a new runway will all of a sudden bring in all kinds of widebodies makes me laugh. The current runway was able to do that. The fact is, you need to fill seats and those markets aren't necessarily there...

Barely. Calgary when they had only the what is now 35L / 17R required the use of the crossing runway 11-29, which impacted the flow of arrivals and departures for a big chunk of daytime hours. The eastern parallel and new Calgary terminal sets YYC up nicely for the next 30-40-50 years of aviation growth.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:18 pm

Quoting Acey (Reply 35):

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 30):
AC hasn't reduced any YYC-LHR frequency that they don't normally do. They still run a daily flight out of YYC which is going to be upgraded to a 787 next winter and summer.

If by "normally" you mean S14, then sure... but S16 is down to 7x from the 11x of S15, which by my count is a reduction.

You're right, I saw that after. With the upgrade to the 787 the seat count per week is about the same. I'm not sure it means EK should add service to YYC. Not that they can.
 
ZKCIF
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RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:35 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 22):
Quoting yowza (Reply 21):
The overall 2500 number is also interesting to me too. Currently EK 227 and 229 run daily offering 620 seats daily (77L and 77W respectively). This adds up to 4340 seats weekly. This would suggest that AS provides ~58% of the feed. Can this be right?!

I haven't checked your numbers but last I did the math I came out around 50% as well. I found another website that said ~33% but I couldn't follow their math (onemileatatime). Kind of shocking but at the same time SEA itself can't support double daily so it has to come from somewhere. I do believe that AS is connecting traffic from SFO/LAX/Other Cali destinations which only offer one per day DXB service and which aircraft fly almost directly over SEA.

No wonder EK has launched a codeshare with AS.

Quoting yowza (Reply 21):
If the recent AS press release is to be used as the basis of a calculation then I find this 30% number tough to beleive.

AS claims they feed EK 2500 pax a week. For the 30% to hold up that would mean 750 PAX would need to originate in YYC, YEG, YVR. Seems on the high side to me but I am more than willing to be corrected by a reputable data source

I find it hard to believe as well. I think most of the traffic comes from the PNW (first) and then Cali and Canada being similar but I don't have any data to support it.

i have an idea about the numbers adding up. i think Air Alaska means not only AS-to-EK passengers but also EK-to-AS passengers.
when we consider both directions, we get that EK provides 1240 seats per day to Seattle (620 in each direction), and the 30 per cent feed number starts looking mathematically sound
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:43 pm

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 38):

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 30):
This idea that a new runway will all of a sudden bring in all kinds of widebodies makes me laugh. The current runway was able to do that. The fact is, you need to fill seats and those markets aren't necessarily there...

Barely. Calgary when they had only the what is now 35L / 17R required the use of the crossing runway 11-29, which impacted the flow of arrivals and departures for a big chunk of daytime hours. The eastern parallel and new Calgary terminal sets YYC up nicely for the next 30-40-50 years of aviation growth.

Yes the runway was needed for operations in and out off YYC but it's not going to open up additional service all around the world. The airport authority makes it sound like A380s will be lining up into YYC because of a new runway and terminal. You still need passengers to fill those planes!
 
User avatar
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5392
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:50 pm

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 38):
Barely. Calgary when they had only the what is now 35L / 17R required the use of the crossing runway 11-29, which impacted the flow of arrivals and departures for a big chunk of daytime hours

cross runways require higher fuel reserves for many carriers whereas parallel runways can reduce them. An important factor in calculating loads.
 
tortugamon
Posts: 6795
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:52 pm

Quoting ZKCIF (Reply 40):
i have an idea about the numbers adding up. i think Air Alaska means not only AS-to-EK passengers but also EK-to-AS passengers.
when we consider both directions, we get that EK provides 1240 seats per day to Seattle (620 in each direction), and the 30 per cent feed number starts looking mathematically sound

That could indeed explain it. I will look back at the wording to see if both ways vs one way could explain it. Solid thought.

tortugamon
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3078
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:24 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 34):
are the ME3 covered by the same bilateral with Canada?

No.

EK & EY are based in the U.A.E.
QR is from Qatar, so that is another bilateral all together.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2245
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:47 pm

Interesting - but not surprising. The Liberals did reach out to the UAE at the time. As, indeed, did a Minister of the Government.

"Mr. Rae said the harm of Mr. Harper's rhetoric will last even longer than the 10 years Defence Minister Peter MacKay candidly predicted in November - while wearing a "Fly Emirates" baseball cap - in a casual comment overheard by a reporter.

"I have never seen such a ham-fisted and confrontational approach to a friendly and moderate country in my political experience. Repairing the damage to this relationship will take even longer than Peter Mackay said a few weeks ago," he said via e-mail. Mr. Rae said his message to both governments is to sit down and resolve the dispute."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...-landing-complaints/article561084/

FWIW, AC and the Liberals don't appear to like each other much.

"One of the least popular companies in Canada - if not the least popular company in Canada - has decided to make the Liberal Party its public enemy. Air Canada's chief operating officer has stepped into the middle of a contentious debate over whether to allow UAE airlines additional landing rights and he's chosen sides.
...
He's decided his friends are the Conservatives (and NDP who support the government's protectionist position) and the Liberals are an enemy who need to be attacked."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...canada-as-the-enemy/article610783/

Goes back a while apparently.

"Lobbyists were startled that a senior executive in their sensitive business would be so seemingly partisan in confronting a party that one day may be back in power. Liberals were not surprised. They trace hard feelings to Paul Martin’s treatment of Copps during the 2003 Liberal leader leadership contest and accuse Dee of helping Conservatives by pulling a campaign plane out from under then-leader Stéphane Dion as the 2008 federal election began."

http://thestar.com/#/article/news/ca...ies_low_in_costly_uae_dispute.html

Worth pointing out that for the 2015 election, NDP and the Tories used AC aircraft. Who did Trudeau use?

I don't expect this to be a priority for the new government, but well worth a try from the UAE.
 
threepoint
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:10 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
They go where the pilots and cabin crew are and quite a few are based in YYC

EK has successfully sourced a lot of WS crew for many years. The only hope for many pilots to fly a widebody (three lease 767s notwthstanding) is to fly overseas. There is also a general feeling of discontent in the WS ranks of late, with union talks a hot topic.

Quoting AirNovaBAe146 (Reply 20):
....not to mention a large new international terminal at YYC opening in the next year or so, which will need to be filled. As well as a 14,000 ft runway that can be used to launch a fully-loaded widebody anywhere in the world.

Fully loaded with what exactly?

Quoting Whiteguy (Reply 41):
The airport authority makes it sound like A380s will be lining up into YYC because of a new runway and terminal. You still need passengers to fill those planes!

Exactly. And I can't see boom & bust Calgary being a dream destination for many carriers for a while. EK will fly to YYZ daily and YVR before YYC.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3078
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: Emirates - Future Calgary Service

Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:12 am

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 45):
Worth pointing out that for the 2015 election, NDP and the Tories used AC aircraft. Who did Trudeau use?

Air Transat B738, C-GTQB

http://www.liberal.ca/justin-trudeau-launches-liberal-campaign-plane/
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!

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