olle
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:35 pm

Quoting WIederling (Reply 249):
WIederling

I'd be surprised if Airbus can't "find" a teeny bit of MTOW raise for the -1000 as well.
another 9t would be super


So then why make a totally new airframe?

A MTOW raise of the 1000 and a stratch with the same number flying a little bit shorter.
For me this is a killer.
 
dare100em
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:43 pm

Quoting olle (Reply 250):
So then why make a totally new airframe?

That's the question. Many here - and I too - would agree that a relative "simple" stretch of the A350-1000 would be enough to be an interesting option without the danger of beeing a 777-9 II.

Anyway it seems that's not what customers (the ME3?) asked Airbus for or what they are at least "thinking about". I could also be that they may consider to let the A380 - slowly - vanishing and won't let the 777-9 be "alone". How knows? But soemthing is going on which we don't know yet.
 
WIederling
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:28 pm

Quoting olle (Reply 250):
So then why make a totally new airframe?

no idea  

Just like this campaign that the A380 suddenly is a design flop and needs a much larger wing.

In both cases the next generation engines should do it.
Murphy is an optimist
 
tortugamon
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:07 pm

Quoting olle (Reply 248):
Why do we then need a totally new wing?

If Boeing can do this with 787-10 why not Airbus?

If they think the market is ok with a significant reduction in payload range then I think they would go that way. However, I do believe that most airlines that don't need the range of the 779 will already prefer the A351 as is so they won't gain much in terms of incremental sales by doing a simple stretch. Now if Airbus does think that the A351 won't be able to split the market with the 779, as I do, then I guess they will need to spend a few Billion and improve it.

tortugamon
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:27 pm

The A380 really hasn't come into its own until EK's 600+ seat configurations, so Airbus will always have the number one heavy hauler place sewn up. There just isn't any need for the A350 to go tit for tat with the 779.
What the...?
 
olle
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:03 am

With the fast development of engines right now the best strategy for Airbus is not doing anything except a simple stretch and for the moment accept less capabilities then the 777X. Next version of A350 "Neo" will give the stretched version the same capabilities as 777X and have a much lower weight.

The A380 "Neo" will be the same with a small stretch and same range as todays version.

I believe next clean sheet Airbus will be a A330 in around 2028 when 787 gets a Neo update.

BR
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:51 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 253):
I do believe that most airlines that don't need the range of the 779 will already prefer the A351 as is so they won't gain much in terms of incremental sales by doing a simple stretch.

If we go by this logic everyone would order an 787-9 instead of 787-10.

Yet people call the 78X best thing since sliced bread that might even kill the A359.

I cannot buy this argument my friend.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:56 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 256):
Yet people call the 78X best thing since sliced bread that might even kill the A359.

Really? I guess I always get the impression that the 78X is a compromised stretch that will be a good regional hauler but no A359 replacement. Maybe I read the wrong threads though.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
jacobin777
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:31 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 256):
Yet people call the 78X best thing since sliced bread that might even kill the A359.

Care to point this out somewhere?   
"Up the Irons!"
 
XT6Wagon
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:58 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 256):
Yet people call the 78X best thing since sliced bread that might even kill the A359.

I think 99% of what I've seen is the 781 is going to be great for the airlines operating 789 and need to replace A330, 772ER or 767. Very few airlines are going to cross shop the A359 and 781.
 
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zeke
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:46 pm

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 258):

You missed the EK thread ?
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:07 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 253):
However, I do believe that most airlines that don't need the range of the 779 will already prefer the A351

Did you mean capacity instead of range? Because B779 and A35K have similar range capabilities.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 257):
Really? I guess I always get the impression that the 78X is a compromised stretch that will be a good regional hauler but no A359 replacement. Maybe I read the wrong threads though.
Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 258):
Care to point this out somewhere?

It was mentioned in the latest EK A380 thread, and many other threads before.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
tortugamon
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:15 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 261):
Did you mean capacity instead of range? Because B779 and A35K have similar range capabilities.

I mean payload range. It seems airlines that are buying the 779 are buying it for some of their longest missions with large payload demands. The A351 will be better than the 779 on regional missions where its lighter structure and lower MTOW will be more beneficial. Of course the A351 is a long haul aircraft as well.

tortugamon
 
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zeke
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:14 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 262):
The A351 will be better than the 779 on regional missions where its lighter structure and lower MTOW will be more beneficial.

The lower weight will be more beneficial on longer sectors as it is a function of the natural log of the takeoff weight over the landing weight (i.e. ln[TOW/LDW])
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:05 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 261):
It was mentioned in the latest EK A380 thread, and many other threads before.

Well then good on you for bringing it up again here. It'd be a shame for the myth to die quietly.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
dare100em
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:30 pm

@ Zeke

While this is right the ascent proportion is higher for short trips which benefits the lighter frame more (e.g. 767-300 with winglets matching 787-8 on intra Japan trips).

Furthermore the 3-shaft design of the RR TRENTs is more beneficial on short trips (4000 nm) while it is more efficient in ascent. The GEx for the 77X on the other hand is designed for efficiency on long stages (I think lightsaber or doc talked details).

Together with the high aspect ratio the 777-9 is really a frame optimized for range - even more than the A350-1000.
 
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enzo011
Posts: 1700
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:12 am

RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting dare100em (Reply 265):
While this is right the ascent proportion is higher for short trips which benefits the lighter frame more (e.g. 767-300 with winglets matching 787-8 on intra Japan trips).

Furthermore the 3-shaft design of the RR TRENTs is more beneficial on short trips (4000 nm) while it is more efficient in ascent. The GEx for the 77X on the other hand is designed for efficiency on long stages (I think lightsaber or doc talked details).

Together with the high aspect ratio the 777-9 is really a frame optimized for range - even more than the A350-1000.

Wait...does this mean the 777X would be better on longer missions...those missions we are told that are only 15% of the EK network? Why order the 777X then?      
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:50 pm

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 266):
Why order the 777X then?      

1. They got a steal of a deal?
2. To drive Airbus fans nuts?
3. To make a point to JL about the A350-1000?
4. Backroom kickback deal?
5. They think it meets their needs?

It's gotta be one of those, but for the life of me I don't know which one.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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Stitch
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RE: New A350-1100 Information From Reuters

Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:56 pm

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 266):
Wait...does this mean the 777X would be better on longer missions...those missions we are told that are only 15% of the EK network? Why order the 777X then?

Capacity.

Emirates has long wanted a larger 777-300ER with more passenger capacity in their configuration and the A350-1000 offers them less capacity than the 777-300ER in their configuration (a fair bit less before Airbus went with the flexible galleys and lavatories).

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