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Flanker7
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:16 pm

Revelation wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
Today KLM announced that all remaining 747 will be retired by the end of March. A real shame but under the current circumstances understandable. You will have to take my word for it, my partner is crew on the 747.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KLM#Fleet suggests there were 2 pax and 5 combi left, all due to go by Jan 2021.

Clear evidence that the summer season is a write off for KLM (and of course other airlines), I would say.

That was the plan but see what impact Corona has. It does however give KLM plenty time to retrain the 747 cockpit crews.
Flying blue only if possible
 
Flanker7
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:18 pm

[quote="AirwayBill"]Sad but not surprising if true.

Anyone cares to provide a reliable source?[/quot

As said my wife flies the 747 with KLM and she has been informed. News can also be found on Facebook, farewell klm747
Flying blue only if possible
 
TMccrury
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:30 pm

I had the opportunity of riding a KL744 from AMS-NBO a few years ago and it was an absolute pleasure. I hate to see them go.
 
AMS18C36C
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:30 pm

I'm waiting for a reliable source a swell. But considering the current sharp decline in air travel, not very surprising if true.

Also, there is already an existing topic on the phase-out of the KLM 747's.
 
Ishrion
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:36 pm

 
Flanker7
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:37 pm

AMS18C36C wrote:
I'm waiting for a reliable source a swell. But considering the current sharp decline in air travel, not very surprising if true.

Also, there is already an existing topic on the phase-out of the KLM 747's.

I would have posted it there but figured it's quite a dramatic change of events.
Flying blue only if possible
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:42 pm

Unconfirmed rumour, its floating around among KL ops employees
 
Starfuryt
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:06 pm

Sad if this is true, but not unexpected. Seems like my goal of spotting the queen at AMS won't happen.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:12 pm

This downturn will finish the 744s like 9/11 finished the 727s
 
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TurboJet707
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:57 pm

 
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cathay747
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:05 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
This downturn will finish the 744s like 9/11 finished the 727s


And the DC-10, L-1011, 737-200...
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
Amsterdam
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:23 pm

26 march probably last touchdown with pax at Ams
 
Starfuryt
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:46 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
This downturn will finish the 744s like 9/11 finished the 727s


there is still over 300 744s listed as active on planespotters so this probably won't happen.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:50 pm

Truly an end of an era.
 
Starfuryt
Posts: 195
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:56 pm

747classic wrote:
According Dutch message board Scramble,'t Praethuys, KLM , page 282, member aws747 :

PH-BFH : 144976 flight hours, 18403 cycles

Highest KLM 744 PH-BFI : 146.041 hours
Highest KLM 744 PH-BFH : 18.403 cycles

KLM 744 Fleet overview (except freighters) :

BFA 125.836 / 16.881
BFB 134.729 / 18.024
BFC 141938 / 17.271
BFD 137.735 / 16.761
BFE 137.069 / 16.493
BFF 140.214 / 17.210
BFG 138.442 / 18.185
BFH 144.976 / 18.403
BFI 146.041 / 17.517
BFK 129.511 / 15.419
BFL active
BFM 123.221 / 14.596
BFN active
BFO 120.665 / 14.126
BFP 120.457 / 14.004
BFR 124.375 / 14.421
BFS active
BFU 112.422 / 12.587
BFV active
BFW active
BFY active


have to wonder if the top 5 here are also the top 5 frames for hours ever.
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 225
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:59 pm

More news sources unfortunately: https://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/263635/v ... ronacrisis

Translated quote
KLM statement

In light of the corona crisis, KLM has taken the decision to phase out all 747s at the end of March 2020. With this cost-saving measure, KLM has earlier phased out these aircraft by more than a year. We will communicate further details about this phase-out at a later stage.
 
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Revelation
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:30 pm

cathay747 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
This downturn will finish the 744s like 9/11 finished the 727s

And the DC-10, L-1011, 737-200...

I seem to recall a lot of 747-200 also heading to the desert and never coming back out post 9/11.
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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UA947
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:29 pm

Starfuryt wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
This downturn will finish the 744s like 9/11 finished the 727s


there is still over 300 744s listed as active on planespotters so this probably won't happen.

It's 324 to be exact of which 195 are (converted) freighters leaving a measly 129 pax aircraft.
I'm not going on a Boeing
 
IWMBH
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:39 pm

Too bad that they don't get a proper retirement, but understandable in the current situation.
Good that two ex-KL 747's are preserved (one in KL livery).

End of a era
 
A388
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:11 pm

Very sad news indeed. With KLM retiring the 747 at the end of this month and Curacao having blocked all flights from the Netherlands and Germany, will KLM still send the 747 to Curacao to pick stranded passengers on this flight? Flights can be done when people have to be brought home so such flights can still take place now.

A388
 
Flanker7
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:12 pm

A true end of an era, I have flown on all of them across the world, from my first ever BFA to JFK and last one BFY from ORD. Great memories for sure, I'll miss flying her.
Flying blue only if possible
 
Arion640
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:14 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
This downturn will finish the 744s like 9/11 finished the 727s


BA will likely battle on.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:16 pm

A388 wrote:
Very sad news indeed. With KLM retiring the 747 at the end of this month and Curacao having blocked all flights from the Netherlands and Germany, will KLM still send the 747 to Curacao to pick stranded passengers on this flight? Flights can be done when people have to be brought home so such flights can still take place now.

A388


KL736 is scheduled to depart for AMS right now with PH-BFY, might be her last commercial pax service out of CUR
 
marcelh
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:17 pm

So that means also that this thread will come to an end way earlier than expected...
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:20 pm

marcelh wrote:
So that means also that this thread will come to an end way earlier than expected...

There is a chance that cargo birds will soldier on, and we will have these to continue debating...
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
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Aircellist
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:23 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
marcelh wrote:
So that means also that this thread will come to an end way earlier than expected...

There is a chance that cargo birds will soldier on, and we will have these to continue debating...


Yes, but it's not the same.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
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Dutchy
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:38 pm

marcelh wrote:
So that means also that this thread will come to an end way earlier than expected...


Yes, this thread should be closed. Too bad.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Aircellist
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:15 am

Dutchy wrote:
marcelh wrote:
So that means also that this thread will come to an end way earlier than expected...


Yes, this thread should be closed. Too bad.


Not yet, but it will come soon.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
A388
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:49 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
KL736 is scheduled to depart for AMS right now with PH-BFY, might be her last commercial pax service out of CUR


I took pictures of it's arrival here and departure. I think KL will keep sending their 747's to Curacao until they have flown all passengers back to their families. Probably till the end of this month and wondering which aircraft type they will send to Curacao after that. Most likely the 787.

A388
 
Flanker7
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:51 am

Dutchy wrote:
marcelh wrote:
So that means also that this thread will come to an end way earlier than expected...


Yes, this thread should be closed. Too bad.

We can rename it, memories flying the KLM 747 and keep going a little longer.
Flying blue only if possible
 
inkjet7
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:48 am

There's also talk of some destinations operated for cargo only on passenger planes. So it might not be all over yet.
 
inkjet7
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:54 am

A388 wrote:
I took pictures of it's arrival here and departure. I think KL will keep sending their 747's to Curacao until they have flown all passengers back to their families. Probably till the end of this month and wondering which aircraft type they will send to Curacao after that. Most likely the 787.

A388

They need a lot of capacity to CUR. But who told you this will be over in two weeks? Two months seems more likely (China was locked, and much better at that, for two months).
 
MartijnNL
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:33 am

Flanker7 wrote:
AMS18C36C wrote:
Also, there is already an existing topic on the phase-out of the KLM 747's.

I would have posted it there but figured it's quite a dramatic change of events.

I thought this was the existing topic?

After all, it is named "KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread".

Is there another topic?
 
AMS18C36C
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:09 am

MartijnNL wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
AMS18C36C wrote:
Also, there is already an existing topic on the phase-out of the KLM 747's.

I would have posted it there but figured it's quite a dramatic change of events.

I thought this was the existing topic?

After all, it is named "KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread".

Is there another topic?


The news of the imminent retirement of the KLM 747's was posted in a seperate topic yesterday. Apparently, moderators eventually moved all the posts to this thread.
 
Flanker7
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:15 am

MartijnNL wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
AMS18C36C wrote:
Also, there is already an existing topic on the phase-out of the KLM 747's.

I would have posted it there but figured it's quite a dramatic change of events.

I thought this was the existing topic?

After all, it is named "KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread".

Is there another topic?

I did post it separately knowing this was the phase out topic but thought with such a dramatic change it needed it's own post. Anyway that was just me, the moderator merged it.
Flying blue only if possible
 
MartijnNL
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:15 pm

Thanks guys for the explanation.

I have to tell my daughter we won't be taking a farewell trip on KLM's Boeing 747. That's too bad. Hopefully BA and LH will operate the 747 for some time to come. But it's not the same as flying our home carrier KLM.
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:34 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
Thanks guys for the explanation.

I have to tell my daughter we won't be taking a farewell trip on KLM's Boeing 747. it's not the same as flying our home carrier KLM.


Ugh, I feel you Martijn. My plan was to fly in November to JFK on KL643 (my favorite KL-flight number and the only KL flight to NYC with some 747 service left) to experience both the US elections and to fly with KLM's Queen one more time but that's now impossible.

Extreme first world problem of course, but for us aviation fans of course very saddening.
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
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747classic
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:13 pm

My last KLM 744 trip would have been KL735 AMS-CUR at April 28th, my booking still shows 747 with seats 3A & B

Note : KL 735, operated by PH-BFY just departed for CUR to repatriate the first wave of Dutch nationals to the Netherlands.

Question : Would KLM consider to operate (in a later stage with less pax returning) 747 Combi aircraft, with cargo for the Island(s) inbound and pax outbound.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
A388
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:30 pm

I want to know when the last KLM flight will be to Curacao. Will they keep flying it to Curacao until their retirement or sooner? Because they only pick passengers going back home. Everything is unclear so far.

A388
 
Aircellist
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:11 pm

Will someone post here the last flights when they are known? What is current status? Where are 747 flown to now?
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
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747classic
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:28 pm

Current status :
All pax (PH-BFL, -BFN and -BFY) : CUR, PBM, YYZ, LAX
Combi's (PH-BFS, -BFT, -BFV and -BFW) : MEX, YYZ, LAX, JFK
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
EddieDude
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:40 pm

I did a search for MEX-AMS on klm.com minutes ago and it still shows Nov. 28 as the last date on which a 74M is operated.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
IWMBH
Posts: 631
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:01 pm

Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:44 pm

EddieDude wrote:
I did a search for MEX-AMS on klm.com minutes ago and it still shows Nov. 28 as the last date on which a 74M is operated.


I think that’s old news, the 747’s will be retired by the end of the month.
 
EddieDude
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:51 pm

IWMBH wrote:
I think that’s old news, the 747’s will be retired by the end of the month.

I mean the booking engine at the company's official website.

Simple Flying mentions the news is still unconfirmed by the company.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
marcelh
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:12 pm

EddieDude wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
I think that’s old news, the 747’s will be retired by the end of the month.

I mean the booking engine at the company's official website.

Simple Flying mentions the news is still unconfiwrmed by the company.


Don’t you think they have more on their plate than updating the booking engine? Don’t forget a lot of people don’t work at offices anymore because of the Corona crisis.
 
PANAMsterdam
Posts: 290
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 am

Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:38 pm

EddieDude wrote:
IWMBH wrote:
I think that’s old news, the 747’s will be retired by the end of the month.

I mean the booking engine at the company's official website.

Simple Flying mentions the news is still unconfirmed by the company.


Both NOS (public broadcaster) and RTL have reported the retirement of the 747 by March 31st.

NOS:
Elbers verwacht dat de impact op KLM enorm zal zijn en wil dat het personeel "cash in het bedrijf houdt" om niet met een lege kas te zitten. KLM neemt versneld afscheid van zes Boeings 747, al per 1 april*. "Het levert nu een beetje cash op maar zorgt er uiteindelijk voor dat we focus op andere zaken kunnen hebben."

*Translation: KLM will speed up the retirement of six Boeing 747's, per April 1st.
source: https://nos.nl/liveblog/2327065-frankri ... talie.html

Edit: third source: https://luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/cate ... 47-bij-klm (in Dutch, "Inglorious end for 747 at KLM")
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1684
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Re: KLM retires all 747 by end of March

Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:19 am

Flanker7 wrote:
Today KLM announced that all remaining 747 will be retired by the end of March. A real shame but under the current circumstances understandable. You will have to take my word for it, my partner is crew on the 747.


Wow, I just flew on PH-BFL today AMS-YYZ. One of the last full passenger 744’s at KL. First flight on a KL 744. Just in the nick of time!
 
kevertje
Posts: 32
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:53 am

It's also officially announced , I think this picture is taken from a message internally :

https://twitter.com/RJSwankhuizen/statu ... 3604137985
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 225
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:59 am

It saids 6x...there are actually 7 frames left, implying one could still be used for active service?
 
FlyingBlueKLM
Posts: 223
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:09 am

MartijnNL wrote:
Thanks guys for the explanation.

I have to tell my daughter we won't be taking a farewell trip on KLM's Boeing 747. That's too bad. Hopefully BA and LH will operate the 747 for some time to come. But it's not the same as flying our home carrier KLM.

I agree. I have never flown in a 747, but I did spot it a lot of times at EHAM. I was also planning to fly on one this year. Sadly, that’s now impossible. But maybe I can try their 787-10 one day. Does anyone know when the last KLM 747 flight to Amsterdam is so I can spot one?
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