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PANAMsterdam
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:04 am

Royal Marechaussee and Schiphol Airport warn people NOT to come to Schiphol to see the last Queen land, due to the coronavirus restrictions. Sad but understandable of course! The article incorrectly states that it will be PH-BFW that has performed the last landing, but she had her last flight yesterday. The final touchdown will be made by PH-BFT. https://luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/cate ... boeing-747
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marcelh
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:49 am

Dutchy wrote:
Breathe wrote:
Do KLM plan on doing a flyover Amsterdam for the final flights? As I mentioned in the Delta MD thread:

I know in business there isn't any place of sentiment, but it would be nice if they could hold onto 1 plane to do at least some sort of small send off when things calm down.


Would be nice to do a flypast above the Netherlands, but then again KLM might not want to spend the money for that at the moment, even though it is only a small amount given the whole KLM operations.


They get A LOT of tax payers money to survive, so I don't it's the right time to spend it because of some sentiment.
 
inkjet7
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:20 am

Dutchy wrote:
Breathe wrote:
Do KLM plan on doing a flyover Amsterdam for the final flights? As I mentioned in the Delta MD thread:

I know in business there isn't any place of sentiment, but it would be nice if they could hold onto 1 plane to do at least some sort of small send off when things calm down.


Would be nice to do a flypast above the Netherlands, but then again KLM might not want to spend the money for that at the moment, even though it is only a small amount given the whole KLM operations.

On the 26th PH-BFL flew over The Hague at 2000 feet and then on to AMS.
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:56 am

inkjet7 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Breathe wrote:
Do KLM plan on doing a flyover Amsterdam for the final flights? As I mentioned in the Delta MD thread:

I know in business there isn't any place of sentiment, but it would be nice if they could hold onto 1 plane to do at least some sort of small send off when things calm down.


Would be nice to do a flypast above the Netherlands, but then again KLM might not want to spend the money for that at the moment, even though it is only a small amount given the whole KLM operations.

On the 26th PH-BFL flew over The Hague at 2000 feet and then on to AMS.


Yes I witnessed that! I was quite shocked to see a 747 fly that low over the city, which hardly ever happens. I was walking in the park when she flew literally over my head making me scream hysterically "Oh a 747!! :bouncy: aaaaaah! So coooool! :dopey: ". I was seriously the only person who looked up, everybody else did not even seem to notice or care.

It really felt like that was the 747's way of saying goodbye to me :cloudnine:
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:36 pm

Can anyone confirm "NH Aviation" is covering the landing, or is anyone else? I'm on their youtube page but there's no mention of it yet. About an hour to go.
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:46 pm

SwissCanuck wrote:
Can anyone confirm "NH Aviation" is covering the landing, or is anyone else? I'm on their youtube page but there's no mention of it yet. About an hour to go.


Get your tissues ready! :cry2:

:checkeredflag: You can see the livestream of the final landing of The Queen right here: https://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/264566/s ... p-schiphol (video halfway down the page)
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SwissCanuck
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:54 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
SwissCanuck wrote:
Can anyone confirm "NH Aviation" is covering the landing, or is anyone else? I'm on their youtube page but there's no mention of it yet. About an hour to go.


Get your tissues ready! :cry2:

:checkeredflag: You can see the livestream of the final landing of The Queen right here: https://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/264566/s ... p-schiphol (video halfway down the page)


I owe you a beer my good friend :) And yes they're beside me. Enjoy the show.
 
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TurboJet707
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:02 pm

PH-BFT "City of Tokyo" just started its descent over the North Sea: https://fr24.com/KLM72Y/244a4b3c
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:09 pm

Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
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TurboJet707
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:12 pm

Thanks. Is this the Kaagbaan (06/24), as announced? Looks more like the Zwanenburgbaan (18C/36C)
 
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zkojq
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:19 pm

Looks like it's going to maybe do a low pass. Heading inbound to EHAM at 095
First to fly the 787-9
 
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TurboJet707
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:22 pm

Yeah, perhaps a low pass over the city of Amsterdam? It's a strange approach.
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:22 pm

Great, the camera man is filming a landing 737 coming in from the south, while the 747 is flying north over the airport. :cry:
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TurboJet707
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:35 pm

And it's on the ground.... End of an era :-(

(Would they be aware that camera and sound are still on, now that the NH camera crew stepped in a car?)
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:53 pm

Mexican ground operations waving The Queen goodbye, 12 hours ago: https://twitter.com/breakingavnews/stat ... 48/photo/1

And well deserved water salute: https://twitter.com/breakingavnews/stat ... 7234322432

Can't believe it's over! No more passenger 747's! :cry:

SwissCanuck wrote:
I owe you a beer my good friend :) And yes they're beside me. Enjoy the show.


Can i have that beer right now? :cry2:
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
AApilot2b
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:43 pm

Such a sad day.
 
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leleko747
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:51 pm

Not only KLM, but Qantas also retired their fleet.
What a SAD day for the Jumbo fans.

I f***in hate Coronavirus.
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
Airbii does not exist.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:48 pm

TurboJet707 wrote:
And it's on the ground.... End of an era :-(

(Would they be aware that camera and sound are still on, now that the NH camera crew stepped in a car?)


Thought that was funny. As a former ENG news cameraman myself you know not to say jack sh*t in front of a live microphone.
 
Aircellist
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:03 pm

… not quite the same as the Queen, but Air Transat's A310 are also being retired from service today. So, all in all, three fleets coming to an end: KL and QF 744 plus TS 310.

And on top of that, it rains in Montreal.

Sad day.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
Ishrion
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:06 pm

Aircellist wrote:
… not quite the same as the Queen, but Air Transat's A310 are also being retired from service today. So, all in all, three fleets coming to an end: KL and QF 744 plus TS 310.

And on top of that, it rains in Montreal.

Sad day.


Not yet, Air Transat’s A310 will be retired on March 31

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... arch-2020/

Unless something changed?
 
Flanker7
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:10 pm

So what are we going to discuss now, how good the 777 looks, if only the 787 had a upper deck. All good comes to an end, to bad it had to be the 747.
Flying blue only if possible
 
Aircellist
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:18 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Aircellist wrote:
… not quite the same as the Queen, but Air Transat's A310 are also being retired from service today. So, all in all, three fleets coming to an end: KL and QF 744 plus TS 310.

And on top of that, it rains in Montreal.

Sad day.


Not yet, Air Transat’s A310 will be retired on March 31

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... arch-2020/

Unless something changed?


You are right, sorry. Off by two days.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
petertenthije
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:22 pm

Flanker7 wrote:
So what are we going to discuss now, how good the 777 looks, if only the 787 had a upper deck. All good comes to an end, to bad it had to be the 747.

We could discuss if Delta is going to buy the retired jumbos? ;)
Attamottamotta!
 
Flanker7
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:33 pm

petertenthije wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
So what are we going to discuss now, how good the 777 looks, if only the 787 had a upper deck. All good comes to an end, to bad it had to be the 747.

We could discuss if Delta is going to buy the retired jumbos? ;)

Forgot about that, I'm sure the will :lol:
Flying blue only if possible
 
A388
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:01 pm

And in Curacao they did NOTHING!!!! I heard KLM management themselves told Curacao that nothing was allowed. Evidently this isn't true I see now looking at the Mexican water canon salute :(

A388
 
FGITD
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:08 pm

A388 wrote:
And in Curacao they did NOTHING!!!! I heard KLM management themselves told Curacao that nothing was allowed. Evidently this isn't true I see now looking at the Mexican water canon salute :(

A388


Actual celebrations at the terminal, gate etc are usually paid out of the stations budget. Given how many employees have been asked to take unpaid leave, there's been major cost cutting, etc. It would be highly inappropriate to then spend money on a party

unfortunate though, I'm sure KLM wished to have a spectacular send off
 
EddieDude
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:35 pm

The farewell in Mexico was just the water salute and the presence of airport employees lined to say goodbye that you saw on the pic from Twitter shown above. Due to the COVID-19 situation, no additional festivities or ceremonies took place. Something was in the works, but that was only while the decision was that the departure would happen in late-2020. Sadly, when that changed, plans for a ceremonial or celebratory departure ended.
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aristoenigma
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:33 pm

I hope this is not too dumb a question: Is the Boeing 748i still flying passenger routes during this crisis. I know this is not a model that had Combi versions but I assume passengers can still arrange flights with carriers that fly the 748i.
 
EddieDude
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:40 pm

I am sure that CA, KE and LH will continue to operate the 748i for several years to come.
Upcoming flights:
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VirginFlyer
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:42 am

aristoenigma wrote:
I hope this is not too dumb a question: Is the Boeing 748i still flying passenger routes during this crisis. I know this is not a model that had Combi versions but I assume passengers can still arrange flights with carriers that fly the 748i.

Without wanting to run too far off topic, here's what FR24 has:

Air China

Korean Air

Lufthansa

EddieDude wrote:
I am sure that CA, KE and LH will continue to operate the 748i for several years to come.

I think that will depend entirely on how quickly the global economy in general, and international air travel in particular, recovers from the COVID-19 disruption.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
ShamrockBoi330
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:00 am

Something has just dawned on me, I'm slow, blame quarantine.

I live Downtown Toronto, beside CN Tower, and on Friday evening I heard a plane thundering overhead and ran to the balcony to catch the KLM 747 flying overhead, flying KL692 YYZ AMS, I thought it was unusual but didnt think twice about it.

Just checked FR24 and checked the flight path, took off south over the lake but swung left back around over the city holding 3,500 feet before turning out over the lake and continued ascent and normal path.

Did I accidently catch PH-BFT doing a farewell fly by on her final flight out of Toronto? And be dumb enough not to realise it at the time?

https://fr24.com/data/flights/kl692#24490527

EDIT; Yup, I did... departure video with ATC at end of video. Damn it, wish I was better prepared to enjoy it more!

https://youtu.be/Yn1AbFKy0-k
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:20 am

FGITD wrote:
I'm sure KLM wished to have a spectacular send off



Yes, Pieter Elbers said they had a big party planned for The Queen, just like they did with the MD11 and F70 and also with the introduction of the Dreamliner (I flew with one of their 3 welcome flights, PH-BHC "Sunflower". Was so cool!)

To quote Elbers: "Normally KLM would have celebrated this [final flight of the 747] in a big way. Now that is not possible and that is sad and it hurts".

(source: https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/economie/bedri ... l-vluchten)
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:41 am

PANAMsterdam wrote:
FGITD wrote:
I'm sure KLM wished to have a spectacular send off



Yes, Pieter Elbers said they had a big party planned for The Queen, just like they did with the MD11 and F70 and also with the introduction of the Dreamliner (I flew with one of their 3 welcome flights, PH-BHC "Sunflower". Was so cool!)

To quote Elbers: "Normally KLM would have celebrated this [final flight of the 747] in a big way. Now that is not possible and that is sad and it hurts".

(source: https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/economie/bedri ... l-vluchten)


Yes it's sad and it hurts, but all I need to do is conjure the image of someone on a ventilator in hospital (unfortunately not difficult for me) and things fall back in perspective.

Thanks to whoever signed off on the on-airport stream so we could all watch at home. It'll have to do!
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:29 am

SwissCanuck wrote:

Yes it's sad and it hurts, but all I need to do is conjure the image of someone on a ventilator in hospital (unfortunately not difficult for me) and things fall back in perspective.

Thanks to whoever signed off on the on-airport stream so we could all watch at home. It'll have to do!



I totally agree with you. This virus is scary and deadly. But here on Airliners.net we can sob about the Queen of the skies for a bit, after logging out the reality of the quarantine and the deadliness of the virus kicks back in. You can build a new 747 if the old one goes to the scrapper, but you can't replace a person.

Stay safe and I hope your friend/relative will make a full recovery! :pray:
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
factsonly
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:47 pm

And after all the emotions over the last KL B744 passenger flights, we can still enjoy these KL B744's in daily operation:

- Mar 30 MP7762 KLM Cargo MIA 01.20 - AMS 15.32 Boeing 747-406F(ER) PH-CKA
- Mar 30 MP8562 KLM Cargo JNB-DAR-NBO 22.30 - AMS 05.45 Boeing 747-406F(ER) PH-CKB
- Mar 30 MP8912 KLM Cargo CAI 16.45 - AMS 20.40 Boeing 747-406F(ER) PH-CKC

PH-CKA


PH-CKB


PH-CKC
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:38 pm

Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:10 pm

Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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TurboJet707
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:36 am

There's a blog on KL's website on how many KL aircraft are temporarily parked at AMS and what is involved to make this possible:
https://blog.klm.com/how-we-park-majority-klm-aircraft/

It's really interesting. One part caught my attention:

"As previously announced, this crisis has prompted the immediate phasing out of our beloved Jumbo Jets, the Boeing 747, with the exception of our freighters. This is earlier than planned, but essential in view of the current crisis. The “Queens of the Air” will be flown to their final destination at a later date. Naturally, we will then give them an appropriate send-off"

First time I hear about a proper send-off for the 747s, and it's also confirmed here that the remaining 747 are here to stay for some more time and won't be sent off to the scrapper soon. Good news if true. And well-deserved too, of course. Funny to see the “Queens of the Air” part - we call them “Queens of the Sky”.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:43 am

TurboJet707 wrote:
There's a blog on KL's website on how many KL aircraft are temporarily parked at AMS and what is involved to make this possible:
https://blog.klm.com/how-we-park-majority-klm-aircraft/

It's really interesting. One part caught my attention:

"As previously announced, this crisis has prompted the immediate phasing out of our beloved Jumbo Jets, the Boeing 747, with the exception of our freighters. This is earlier than planned, but essential in view of the current crisis. The “Queens of the Air” will be flown to their final destination at a later date. Naturally, we will then give them an appropriate send-off"

First time I hear about a proper send-off for the 747s, and it's also confirmed here that the remaining 747 are here to stay for some more time and won't be sent off to the scrapper soon. Good news if true. And well-deserved too, of course. Funny to see the “Queens of the Air” part - we call them “Queens of the Sky”.

Interesting read and some great (yet sad) photo's.

I wouldn't read to much into them giving a proper send-off.
They might draw some attention to it (who knows how) but it's not going to be anywhere as big as with the departure of the MD-11's or the Fokker F70's.
Charley Valette (777/787 captain at KLM; one of the key people in the MD-11 and Fokker farewell send-off) mentioned this sometime ago on the Farewell KLM Boeing 747 Facebook page; even if this whole Corono virus wasn't a thing, the 747 wouldn't get such a big farewell party as the MD-11's.
The climate just isn't there (anymore) in The Netherlands; people talked/complained about the low altitude flights of the MD-11's, there's a massive argument/crisis going on about nitrogen emissions etc.
There were also plenty of complaints about the unexpected flypast of a KLM 777 and 4 F-16's over Amsterdam when they celebrated 100 years of Dutch aviation.
And since the Corono virus is a thing; KLM is in no position to do any charitable/festive like things like that with thousands of people laid off, thousands of people at home, probably some kind of loans from the government and a deplorable financial status when this crisis is over.

As for flights to the scrapper for the 747's; they're probably going as soon as it's safe to do so and or regulations allow it. Even though parking is apparently free now at Schiphol; (parking)space is always at a premium. There isn't much need for keeping them any longer at Schiphol.
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:47 pm

Recent photos counts 6x 744 parked next to a hangar at AMS. There were 7 in service, where is number 7 PH-BFS?
 
bennett123
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:56 pm

 
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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:18 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Recent photos counts 6x 744 parked next to a hangar at AMS. There were 7 in service, where is number 7 PH-BFS?

Also parked at AMS. They do get moved around a bit.
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:39 am

Found this tweet with an internal KL memo to flight engineers
https://twitter.com/RJSwankhuizen/statu ... 60743?s=20

Accelerated phase-out of the B747 (6x) by April (instead of S21)

Six, not all seven. So is it possible that one bird could still be used for active service?
 
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747classic
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:50 am

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Found this tweet with an internal KL memo to flight engineers
https://twitter.com/RJSwankhuizen/statu ... 60743?s=20

Accelerated phase-out of the B747 (6x) by April (instead of S21)

Six, not all seven. So is it possible that one bird could still be used for active service?


KLM Flight engineers don't excist anymore since 2003/2004, only ground engineers.
The number six has been taken from the "grounding" memo (at the start of the corona crises) of the KLM board of directors. that number was also not correct. (6 i.s.o. 7)
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
tvh
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:20 pm

PH-BFT would be grounded in 3/2019 anyhow.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:48 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Recent photos counts 6x 744 parked next to a hangar at AMS. There were 7 in service, where is number 7 PH-BFS?

PH-BFS has some of her titles removed and they will continue with the rest of her titles this week. The rest of the fleet follows in the coming weeks.

Image
Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Farewel ... 746797925/

Parked alongside her sisters this afternoon (-BFS on the right):

Image
Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Farewel ... 290088704/
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:26 am

Thanx for the update
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:27 pm

Starting today, the 2nd KLM 747 book can be ordered here: https://klm747.nl/product/boek-2-747-qu ... the-skies/

Image
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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747classic
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:33 am

KLM 744 combi's will (partly) return into service, starting next week.
KLM is reversing it's initial descision to ground all passenger 744's.
Philips and the Dutch Government are cooperating in supplying hospitals with medical supplies, using KLM 744combi aircraft.
See (in Dutch) : https://www.telegraaf.nl/financieel/189 ... evoorraden
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:40 am

747classic wrote:
KLM 744 combi's will (partly) return into service, starting next week.
KLM is reversing it's initial descision to ground all passenger 744's.
Philips and the Dutch Government are cooperating in supplying hospitals with medical supplies, using KLM 744combi aircraft.
See (in Dutch) : https://www.telegraaf.nl/financieel/189 ... evoorraden



That's amazing news and also makes a lot of sense :bouncy: . KLM has a unique bird in her hands with the 747 Combi, and although she won't be carrying passengers anymore she can still be of great service to our medical workers shipping medical equipment to Europe! See, we just can't live without the 747 :lol:

Technical question: How can they safely operate her with an empty passenger section and a filled cargo section? How do they balance that out? I'm happy to volunteer as balance :dopey:
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.

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