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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:40 pm

At KLM's Flight Crew Training Center; their 747-400 full flight simulator PH-BFX "Olympia" has been permanently powered down today and they have started dismantling her.
Rumours are that the simulator will be used someplace else (outside of The Netherlands)

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Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Farewel ... 570708270/
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
jbs2886
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:00 pm

Why do I subscribe to this thread? It's quite sad! KLM 747s have been such a staple in commercial aviation.
 
jcwr56
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:11 pm

Looks like another one is planned 07DEC. AMS/ORD/MCI times stopping at ORD looks like 1730/1900 UTC.
 
QF744ER
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:25 pm

Jet Midwest Group have a salvage/scrapping facility at MCI, they ferried a QF 744 there from VCV a few months back for tear down.
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:15 pm

I've heard PH-BFT would be the next one to go, looks like she's headed to MCI for immediate scrap then. Damn, really hoped that we'd get her over at MHV...still holding out for BFV/BFW though :pray:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
FlyingViking
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:19 pm

Iemand91 wrote:
Titles have been removed from PH-BFV "City of Vancouver' as well.

Image
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Source


Always a treat so see them in AMS. One of the best liveries ever. IMO. So sad. How many KLM 747's are left to be disposed off?
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:25 pm

FlyingViking wrote:
How many KLM 747's are left to be disposed off?


Three:
PH-BFT (flying AMS-ORD-MCI on December 7)
PH-BFV (tiles painted over, will likely ferry to her final resting place early 2021)
PH-BFW (also 2021, will likely be the last KLM 747 flight).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
FlyingViking
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:35 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
FlyingViking wrote:
How many KLM 747's are left to be disposed off?


Three:
PH-BFT (flying AMS-ORD-MCI on December 7)
PH-BFV (tiles painted over, will likely ferry to her final resting place early 2021)
PH-BFW (also 2021, will likely be the last KLM 747 flight).


Thank you, I'm bummed I never got to fly on the 747 Combi.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:16 pm

Today, the last remaining 747 pax (PH-BFW "City of Shanghai") had her titles removed.
For the first time in 50 years, there are no passenger 747's left with KLM livery.

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Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Farewel ... 993688661/
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:26 pm

KLM A330-200 PH-AOM hit 747-400 PH-BFV yesterday at Schiphol-East during tow.

Image
Image
Image
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:36 pm

Iemand91 wrote:
KLM A330-200 PH-AOM hit 747-400 PH-BFV yesterday at Schiphol-East during tow.

Image
Image
Image


Interesting, does this affect airworthiness of PH-BFV in any way?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
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smartplane
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:03 am

Phosphorus wrote:
Interesting, does this affect airworthiness of PH-BFV in any way?

Operators of aircraft that are being stored, reduce their insurance cover to include only ground risk.

The accident is a notifiable event for financiers holding security, as well as their insurers, so even if deemed airworthy, KLM have a few boxes to tick before either of these planes take to the air again, for a non-revenue transit for repairs or storage, let alone commercial service.

Commercial aviation insurance revenues have fallen as much as their customers revenues. Claim events will not be appreciated by any of those involved. On the other hand, the owners and financiers might wish they had hit with more force, and two write offs were on the cards.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:55 am

smartplane wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Interesting, does this affect airworthiness of PH-BFV in any way?

Operators of aircraft that are being stored, reduce their insurance cover to include only ground risk.

The accident is a notifiable event for financiers holding security, as well as their insurers, so even if deemed airworthy, KLM have a few boxes to tick before either of these planes take to the air again, for a non-revenue transit for repairs or storage, let alone commercial service.

Commercial aviation insurance revenues have fallen as much as their customers revenues. Claim events will not be appreciated by any of those involved. On the other hand, the owners and financiers might wish they had hit with more force, and two write offs were on the cards.


On the insurance side, that makes a lot of sense. But BFV was being prepped for her last flights to her final destination, would that mean that insurance coverage would be immediately reduced?
In the meantime, the question stands -- is BFV good to be ferried to scrappers, or is this incident dictating a change of plans?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
smartplane
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:02 am

Phosphorus wrote:
smartplane wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Interesting, does this affect airworthiness of PH-BFV in any way?

Operators of aircraft that are being stored, reduce their insurance cover to include only ground risk.

The accident is a notifiable event for financiers holding security, as well as their insurers, so even if deemed airworthy, KLM have a few boxes to tick before either of these planes take to the air again, for a non-revenue transit for repairs or storage, let alone commercial service.

Commercial aviation insurance revenues have fallen as much as their customers revenues. Claim events will not be appreciated by any of those involved. On the other hand, the owners and financiers might wish they had hit with more force, and two write offs were on the cards.


On the insurance side, that makes a lot of sense. But BFV was being prepped for her last flights to her final destination, would that mean that insurance coverage would be immediately reduced?
In the meantime, the question stands -- is BFV good to be ferried to scrappers, or is this incident dictating a change of plans?

In normal times, most aircraft in the fleet are subject to a continuous all cover policy, though canny operators customise this for example when an aircraft is undergoing lengthy heavy maintenance, to reduce costs.

Today, most stored aircraft will just have ground cover, unless return to service is imminent.

The owner / operator of a stored aircraft undertaking a test or final flight, will obtain comprehensive insurance (less passengers - the crew are insured separately) for the specific period when the flight is scheduled.

Once the nature of the damage is ascertained, it may need to be repaired before flying (and to obtain insurance cover), or receive special approval for the flight such as altitude restrictions. Some commercial aviation insurers will not quote for impaired aircraft cover.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:51 am

One interesting note: PH-BFV was also hit during tow last year with a KLM 787: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1415457
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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boris888
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:15 pm

i heard rumor they were to move to Israel
 
bennett123
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:09 pm

What was going to move to Israel?.
 
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747classic
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:47 pm

There were some not confirmed (one source only) rumours about two of the three aircraft would be heading to Israel (IAI) for P-F conversion for a start-up carrier.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:00 pm

The 3 747's at Schiphol-East, together with A330-200 PH-AON.
Apparently taken yesterday (Tuesday, 24 november)

Image
Source: https://www.luchtopname.nl/single-post/ ... qx3H8_KAcs / https://www.facebook.com/groups/Farewel ... 683492025/
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:16 pm

The A330 being completely ignored by the three 747's, after slapping one of them in the face a few days ago.
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
inkjet7
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:21 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
The A330 being completely ignored by the three 747's, after slapping one of them in the face a few days ago.
That was sister ship AOM.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:14 pm

Last night at home for the 23 year old PH-BFT "City of Tokyo". Parked at gate E75 today.
Tomorrow morning at 10 she'll depart for Chicago and continue to Kansas City.

Tokyo was the 747 that performed the final ever KLM 747 pax flight on March 28, flight KL686 from Mexico-City.
She touched down at Schiphol Airport on March 29 at 15:32, ending more then 49 years of KLM 747 passenger flights.

Image

Her sisters that stay for just a little while longer in the background:

Image
Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Farewel ... 600470633/
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
bennett123
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:36 pm

I was over at Kemble a few days ago.

PH-BFG/TF-AMG is now in the scrapping area.

Whether it will see 2021 is anyone's guess.
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:32 pm

bennett123 wrote:
I was over at Kemble a few days ago.

PH-BFG/TF-AMG is now in the scrapping area.

Whether it will see 2021 is anyone's guess.

Indeed she is. Looks like the was moved there around November 15. Picture was taken Yesterday (December 5).

ImageG-LSAG & TF-AMG by QSY on-route, on Flickr
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
oldJoe
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:14 pm

inkjet7 wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
The A330 being completely ignored by the three 747's, after slapping one of them in the face a few days ago.
That was sister ship AOM.


I hope AON has nothing bad in her mind !?
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:30 am

Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
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747classic
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:35 am

PH-BFT, the evening before ..................................
Image

Original uploaded by Peter Leyfeldt at facebook, see : https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=369 ... 5794012547

PH-BFT seems to be heading to Kansas City (MCI) after landing at ORD. (customs clearing) for a HMV (at Aviation Technical Services) ?
New owner is still unk.
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:44 am

747classic wrote:
PH-BFT, the evening before ..................................
Image

Original uploaded by Peter Leyfeldt at facebook, see : https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=369 ... 5794012547

PH-BFT seems to be heading to Kansas City (MCI) after landing at ORD. (customs clearing) for a HMV (at Aviation Technical Services) ?
New owner is still unk.


Jet Midwest Group
 
TSA125
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:03 pm

Do we know yet where the remaining aircraft are headed in 2021? MCI, MHV?
No not that TSA.
 
PlaneInsanity
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:40 pm

I flew on the 'City of Nairobi' January 2020, AMS-BOM. Little did I know that would be my last ride on a KL Queen. :(
 
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Iemand91
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:55 pm

And now the last bit to Kansas: https://www.flightradar24.com/KLM747/263f43c0
Some aviation photo's on my Flickr-page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iemand91/
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:49 pm

Iemand91 wrote:
And now the last bit to Kansas: https://www.flightradar24.com/KLM747/263f43c0


It's over... Tokyo has landed! :cry:

It must have been quite a while ago since the last time a 747 (passenger plane) landed at Kansas City International Airport! Reminder of the old TWA times for sure.
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:21 am

PANAMsterdam wrote:
Iemand91 wrote:
And now the last bit to Kansas: https://www.flightradar24.com/KLM747/263f43c0


It's over... Tokyo has landed! :cry:

It must have been quite a while ago since the last time a 747 (passenger plane) landed at Kansas City International Airport! Reminder of the old TWA times for sure.


Don’t track much ops at MCI, but N953JM (ex Qantas VH-OJL) ferried VCV-MCI in the summer. 747 pax ops (revenue) are very limited, but repositioning flights or retirement flights are not that uncommon.

But definitely a sad reality that there are just two more KLM 747s left....
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9
 
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ojjunior
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:22 am

Iemand91 wrote:
The 3 747's at Schiphol-East, together with A330-200 PH-AON.
Apparently taken yesterday (Tuesday, 24 november)

Image
Source: https://www.luchtopname.nl/single-post/ ... qx3H8_KAcs / https://www.facebook.com/groups/Farewel ... 683492025/


What's up with the engineless A330?
 
oldJoe
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:28 am

ojjunior wrote:
Iemand91 wrote:
The 3 747's at Schiphol-East, together with A330-200 PH-AON.
Apparently taken yesterday (Tuesday, 24 november)

Image
Source: https://www.luchtopname.nl/single-post/ ... qx3H8_KAcs / https://www.facebook.com/groups/Farewel ... 683492025/


What's up with the engineless A330?


Because this way she can`t move and slap one of her mothers !
 
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FLJ
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:28 am

ojjunior wrote:
Iemand91 wrote:
The 3 747's at Schiphol-East, together with A330-200 PH-AON.
Apparently taken yesterday (Tuesday, 24 november)

Image
Source: https://www.luchtopname.nl/single-post/ ... qx3H8_KAcs / https://www.facebook.com/groups/Farewel ... 683492025/


What's up with the engineless A330?


According to a source at Scramble (forum) the lease of this bird (PH-AON) will expire in the first half of 2021, so she’s probably stored before being returned to the lessor.
 
76er
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:34 am

Interesting tidbit: PH-AON is a former MRTT prototype.
 
petertenthije
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:40 am

76er wrote:
Interesting tidbit: PH-AON is a former MRTT prototype.

Would this be of interest to the NATO tanker wing? Maybe not for tanking, but for training and transport duties? Are there many differences between PH-AON and the NATO A330s? (except obviously for the boom)
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
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747classic
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:38 pm

petertenthije wrote:
76er wrote:
Interesting tidbit: PH-AON is a former MRTT prototype.

Would this be of interest to the NATO tanker wing? Maybe not for tanking, but for training and transport duties? Are there many differences between PH-AON and the NATO A330s? (except obviously for the boom)


PH-AON is customized to KLM configuration before delivery. However some small differences stil excist (non standard wiring and especially wiring splices)
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:06 pm

747classic wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
76er wrote:
Interesting tidbit: PH-AON is a former MRTT prototype.

Would this be of interest to the NATO tanker wing? Maybe not for tanking, but for training and transport duties? Are there many differences between PH-AON and the NATO A330s? (except obviously for the boom)


PH-AON is customized to KLM configuration before delivery. However some small differences stil excist (non standard wiring and especially wiring splices)


Actually, the wing config of the latest MRTT is based from the A340 to accomodate the wingmounted refueling pods
 
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Polot
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:14 pm

petertenthije wrote:
76er wrote:
Interesting tidbit: PH-AON is a former MRTT prototype.

Would this be of interest to the NATO tanker wing? Maybe not for tanking, but for training and transport duties? Are there many differences between PH-AON and the NATO A330s? (except obviously for the boom)

Minor correction- this plane was to be a KC-45 (USAF tanker) prototype that was never completed due to the canceling of that contract and rebid. There are probably a few differences compared to a normal MRTT, but I don’t know what they may be. There is also another KC-45 prototype (msn 871) that Airbus never sold.

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
747classic wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
Would this be of interest to the NATO tanker wing? Maybe not for tanking, but for training and transport duties? Are there many differences between PH-AON and the NATO A330s? (except obviously for the boom)


PH-AON is customized to KLM configuration before delivery. However some small differences stil excist (non standard wiring and especially wiring splices)


Actually, the wing config of the latest MRTT is based from the A340 to accomodate the wingmounted refueling pods

Right, put that doesn’t preclude any wiring and other minor differences from standard passenger A330s.
 
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747classic
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:03 pm

PH-BFV , AMS, Hangar 11, Dec 14th, still waiting ..........................................................................
Image

Image

Original uploaded by Bianca Krijthe-Moens at facebook, see : https://www.facebook.com/groups/FarewellKLMBoeing747

A nice video of the last A check of a KLM 747 pax aircraft (PH-BFV) by KLM/TD : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zD9Zh ... e=youtu.be
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:38 pm

PH-BFT, MCI, January 13th 2021.
Now in the queue, awaiting dismantling according Jet Midwest. However in contrast to all other to be scrapped KLM 744's all engines seem to be still present !
Image

Original uploaded by Jet Midwest at twitter, see : https://twitter.com/JetMidwest/status/1 ... 7640378375
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:46 am

PH-BFW is scheduled to be ferried to Tel Aviv (TLV) at Monday 18 January 2021, 07:30 UTC, 08:30LT with callsign KL747.
The new owner and the details of a possible modification (partial freighter or full -BDSF conversion ? ) are still unknown.

Source : https://www.scramble.nl/community/messa ... /14/155253
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
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747classic
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:16 am

PH-BFW, just airborne, ferry flight towards TLV with callsign KL747, see : https://flightaware.com/live/flight/PHB ... 0813Z/EHAM

Image

Original uploaded by Ruben Daman at facebook, see : https://www.facebook.com/groups/Farewel ... 966454862/

See also : https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... w#2699c093
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:43 am

747classic wrote:
PH-BFW is scheduled to be ferried to Tel Aviv (TLV) at Monday 18 January 2021, 07:30 UTC, 08:30LT with callsign KL747.
The new owner and the details of a possible modification (partial freighter or full -BDSF conversion ? ) are still unknown.

Source : https://www.scramble.nl/community/messa ... /14/155253


IAI-Bedek is also based in TLV, could this be a possibilty??
https://www.iai.co.il/commercial/aviati ... onversions
 
remco1979
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:47 pm

Would be nice if IAI could convert it to a freighter for Martinair Cargo to replace the aging PH-MPS (over 30 years old).
 
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747classic
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:06 pm

Food for speculation : According Skyliner, PH-BFW will be operated by Longtail Aviation after P-F conversion at TLV.
See : https://www.skyliner-aviation.de/regdb. ... av4&page=3
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.
 
IWMBH
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:58 pm

If the plane returns to service with KLM (or Martinair), why would they remove all titles? Or was the decision to convert the plane later?
 
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747classic
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Re: KL 744 Phase out News and Discussion Thread

Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:57 am

According TLVspotters at facebook : PH-BFW, a former KLM Royal Dutch Airlines 747-400 Combi arriving from Amsterdam yesterday for "light freighter conversion" for Longtail Aviation. As the aircraft already has a side cargo door on the main deck, the freighter conversion will only include removal of the cabin so that the former pax cabin will be used for small packages while the back of the main deck and lower deck will carry containers/pallets.

Image

See : https://www.facebook.com/TLVspotters/
Operating a twin over the ocean, you're always one engine failure from a total emergency.

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