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9lflyguy
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Regional Swaps?

Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:45 pm

I was curious to know how often if any does this happen? With multiple regional airlines flying out of the major hubs for the Majors, do we ever see regional swaps? Like lets say regional A can't complete flight number XXXX does or has a major ever asked another regional. say regional airline B, to step in a fly that route to keep the the system flowing? Have any of you experienced this?

My thinking is this would be most common with wholly owned regionals.
Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 712, 722, 732, 733, 734, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 763, 772, CR2, CR7, CR9, DHA, D8B, D8C, D95, E140, E145, E170, E175, E190, M82, M88, M90, S340
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Regional Swaps?

Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:58 pm

Quoting 9lflyguy (Thread starter):

I was curious to know how often if any does this happen? With multiple regional airlines flying out of the major hubs for the Majors, do we ever see regional swaps? Like lets say regional A can't complete flight number XXXX does or has a major ever asked another regional. say regional airline B, to step in a fly that route to keep the the system flowing? Have any of you experienced this?

Yes, it happens all of the time as long as there is an available crew and aircraft to cover it.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
OMNI435
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RE: Regional Swaps?

Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:09 pm

This happens all the time on a few different levels.... For example, Delta may ask SkyWest to fly a given flight for Compass due to whatever reasons, Mechanical issues, Staffing issues etc..... This can happen for one single round trip on one day or sometimes they can fly it several days in a row or in extreme cases, take over the route permanently. SkyWest fills in for Compass a lot on flights out of SLC and LAX.... Endeavor fills in for SkyWest on occasion out of DTW when SkyWest has mechanical issues. AA will often ask if SkyWest can cover an Envoy flight out of ORD. The flight numbers will usually change but its still operating to cover the original flight.

All of the regionals work with someone in the OCC at each mainline carrier. Sometimes the regional carrier pre-emptively calls the mainline partner and asks if they can find a different regional to cover a round trip or an overnight trip. The mainline person then calls around and solicits the flight to see if anyone else can cover it before they just flat out cancel the flight in the case that nobody picks it up.

Another thing is that the mainline carrier often covers the flight themselves if they have a spare 737 or A320 sitting in that hub and a reserve crew. So, yes this happens all the time, pretty much on a daily basis.
 
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9lflyguy
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RE: Regional Swaps?

Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:01 am

Cool information. I flew as a regional flight attendant and I never believe I saw this take place at any of the airlines I worked for. Thanks for sharing.
Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 712, 722, 732, 733, 734, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 763, 772, CR2, CR7, CR9, DHA, D8B, D8C, D95, E140, E145, E170, E175, E190, M82, M88, M90, S340
 
ericm2031
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RE: Regional Swaps?

Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:46 am

Just curious, I know some regionals have spare aircraft with no carrier-specific liveries on them so they can be used as spares for whatever legacy they need it for. Are they still doing this for any newer birds? I see them a lot on CRJ200s but never see them on anything else.

Just wondering since the majors are consolidating each hub to fewer and fewer regionals per hub, I feel swapping out flying partners will become harder. Especially with hubs like SFO/LAX for UA being all OO and AA almost all CP at LAX. OO used to regularly use their generic planes for all 3 majors at LAX, but with the -200 rapidly disappearing, I'm not sure if they have that ability with their larger planes mainly being carrier specific now, if not all.
 
durangomac
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RE: Regional Swaps?

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:33 pm

Quoting ericm2031 (Reply 4):
Just curious, I know some regionals have spare aircraft with no carrier-specific liveries on them so they can be used as spares for whatever legacy they need it for. Are they still doing this for any newer birds? I see them a lot on CRJ200s but never see them on anything else.

The reason this is because all partners have the CRJ-200 setup as a 50 seats but most of the larger aircraft are setup differently depending on the partner it's flying for. As an example the CRJ-700 at OO is configured 70Y for AS, 9F/56Y (soon to be 9F/60Y) for DL and 6F/64Y for UA and that doesn't take into account the premium economy seat differences.
 
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JBo
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RE: Regional Swaps?

Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:40 pm

A really important item to point out on this topic is that whether or not one regional substitutes for another on a given route depends entirely on who is staffing the destination airport.

For example, if a SkyWest exclusively flies a Delta route from MSP to, say, MQT (I'm just winging hypothetical here), and the MQT station is staffed entirely by SkyWest employees, and if OO has to cancel a flight on that leg, you are NOT likely to see, say, Republic fill in on that route.

Why?

Training.

The OO personnel at the outstation are trained solely on SkyWest's groundhandling policies. While everything "above-wing" (meaning ticket counter and gate) is all based on Delta's training and policies, everything "below-wing" (meaning ramp operations) is based on SkyWest's training.

While you may think that ramp training and policies are basically the same for everyone, there are actually a lot of nuances that can be different between carriers, simply because they do things a bit differently. I'm talking about things like differences in filling out load slips, de-icing policies, and so on.

Now, if an outstation is staffed by, say, DGS employees who have been trained on the different rules for the different carriers (or if the SkyWest employees have been trained for different carriers), then sure, you might see some different-carrier substitutions from time to time.

In short, if a particular route is operated by only one regional carrier for a given airline, then you're not likely to see subs by other carriers on that route.

If a particular route is already operated by a mixed bag of regionals, substitutions are more likely.

In the end, though, it all depends on training and if the personnel at the destination are familiar with and trained for the ground-ops policies for all the different carriers.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
bhmdiversion
Posts: 285
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RE: Regional Swaps?

Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:54 pm

Quoting jbo (Reply 6):

Not true at ALL. Delta, United, and American have one GOM for training all aircraft types for ground handling. You are not fully signed off until the plane is there and your witnesses by that trainer as your proficient in what to do.
 
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JBo
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RE: Regional Swaps?

Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:07 pm

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 7):
Not true at ALL. Delta, United, and American have one GOM for training all aircraft types for ground handling. You are not fully signed off until the plane is there and your witnesses by that trainer as your proficient in what to do.

Things have probably changed since my time in the industry, then.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
SaabFA71
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RE: Regional Swaps?

Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:29 pm

Chautauqua Airlines covered some of Shuttle America's flying when both were USAirways Express carriers from time to time. Shuttle America's US operation was a disaster. Flights were being cancelled across the board on a daily basis so US had Chautauqua step in to cover some flying and allow Shuttle time to get it's house in order. Specifically, Chautauqua temporarily covered the PIT-CLE and PIT-HGR Saab 340 routes. And those were routes and aircraft that Chautauqua originally had before they were awarded to Shuttle as Chautauqua was transitioning to E145s.
I used all of my sick days, so now I'm calling in dead.
 
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b727fa
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RE: Regional Swaps?

Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:27 pm

So you're going back 10+ years for an example? Why not just go back to when Orville subbed out of Wilber that one time in Dayton?
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5034
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

RE: Regional Swaps?

Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:17 pm

A lot of times the outstation will ha handled by one connect carrier. That station may have flights from several connect carriers scheduled. After that a swap is a swap. They would also be able to handle wether diversions for the whole brand.
 
LittleFokker
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RE: Regional Swaps?

Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:31 pm

It's an if, and a big IF, that another regional carrier would have a similar sized aircraft and available crew to substitute for another regional. Regional fleets are scheduled pretty full with little room for spares due to the fact that many aircraft are leased from their mainline counterpart. Generally, they get paid for flying the route with the mainline carrier on the hook for profitability, so they have a major completion incentive.

Bottom line, it's possible and does happen on rare occasions, but it's few and far between.
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
OB1504
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RE: Regional Swaps?

Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:17 am

Republic has been cancelling American Eagle flights out of MIA left and right due to lack of crews. Lately AA has been adding extra sections operated by Envoy Air at the same times as the cancelled Republic flights to get people out. Of course, with the downgrade from a 76-seat E175 to a 50-seat ERJ 145, some people are going to get left behind, but it's much better than having to rebook all 76 people onto another Republic flight which will probably also be cancelled.

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