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jetblastdubai
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United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:16 pm

"United Continental Holdings Inc., which has outsourced jobs at 39 U.S. airports since 2013 to vendors who perform the duties at lower cost, said Friday that it will halt that practice until at least the end of 2016.

An additional 16 airports that could have been targeted for job cuts are protected for now, United said. In addition, the company’s labor contract with check-in, baggage-handling and customer service workers represented by the International Association of Machinists currently exempts 23 busier airports and seven domestic hubs from job cuts."

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/uni...d-of-2016-2015-10-30?siteid=yhoof2

Goodwill gesture possibly? This might do a lot to help employee morale and heal a few scars.
 
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lesfalls
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:20 pm

Some big deal most have stopped them from continuing to outsource their airport staff. Anyone have any ideas on what it could have been?
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cle757
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:24 pm

It's really nothing to get excited about. Most of the employees that are left are covered by their contracts until they expire in 2018 anyway.
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northwestEWR
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:28 pm

I suspect they need time to get their own version of DL's DGS up and running. I believe they're calling it United Ground Services.

They will continue outsourcing--to their vendor--once it's ready.
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UnitedTristar
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:30 pm

Well the other thing is it allows United to get its own ground handling business up and running. And then enough time to move some current out stations currently serviced by American Eagle or Delta Global Services back over to its own services. I hope it means that UA will be taking a different route in the future but I think it's more so they can outsource to themselves

-m

  
 
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LAXintl
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:38 pm

This temporary pause is until the amendable dates of airport ops contracts.

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 3):
I suspect they need time to get their own version of DL's DGS up and running. I believe they're calling it United Ground Services.

  
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777Jet
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:49 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Thread starter):
An additional 16 airports that could have been targeted for job cuts are protected for now, United said.

"protected" LOL.

How nice!
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COSPN
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:00 pm

Hope we can get our paycut reversed that would make our station happy again
 
UA444
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:15 pm

"We are giving you a stay of execution until we get the guillotine back from the shop"
 
jetmatt777
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:26 pm

Quoting COSPN (Reply 7):
Hope we can get our paycut reversed that would make our station happy again

Why should they do that? We signed a contract for the pay we are getting now. If the pay was unacceptable we should have turned the contract down.
 
dc10co
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:26 pm

As far as I know there are no stations left that are not protected by the current contract or the agreements reached last year with the stations that took concessions. Those stations are also protected until the end of 2016. So essentially what they're telling us is we legally can't outsource anymore, so you're safe...for now.
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ericm2031
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:00 am

United Ground Express is starting up in December in AZO with some Envoy stations planned for early next year.
 
klwright69
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:07 am

So what cities beside the hub cities are protected? I remember that JFK was protected from outsourcing. I wonder what most of the staff there is doing now?
 
jayunited
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:12 am

Quoting dc10co (Reply 10):
As far as I know there are no stations left that are not protected by the current contract or the agreements reached last year with the stations that took concessions. Those stations are also protected until the end of 2016. So essentially what they're telling us is we legally can't outsource anymore, so you're safe...for now.

  
You are exactly correct the remaining line stations that could have been targeted accepted an amendment to the contract that save their station and jobs which protected those stations in the interim preventing UA from taking further action until the current agreement expires. However make no mistake UA is by no means done I think United Ground Express (UA's version of DL;s DGS) is coming and from what i'm hearing it will be full operational by the end of 2016 just in time for contract negotiations. So moving forward UA probably will not contract work out to outside vendors and replace many vendors with United Ground Express. But the people who will be forced to move from United Airlines to United Ground Express will technically be UA employees however they will not receive UA pay and benefits they will be paid a lower wage and more than likely if UA has its way the future UGE employees will probably not be union employees it is the only way UGE can make the numbers work employees pay would be somewhere in the vicinity of what current vendors are being paid.

I know employees are hoping employee relations improves and I hope they will as well, that being said I don't think that just because Jeff is gone UA is going to abandon United Ground Express.
 
UA444
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:43 am

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 12):

JFK was protected, which makes the closing of the station entirely that much more suspicious.
 
klwright69
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:02 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 14):
JFK was protected, which makes the closing of the station entirely that much more suspicious.

Yes, I knew it was protected. It stuck in my mind when someone put the list of protected stations in a thread similar to this one once before. I had question marks about JFK in UA's future going back some.
 
jetmatt777
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:42 am

The protections aren't a guarantee they will continue to fly there. It's a protection that as long as they fly there, UA workers will perform the work. The entire station closed at JFK. Not just a transfer of work to someone else. The work went away completely.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:19 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 3):
They will continue outsourcing--to their vendor--once it's ready.

At least those employees will be under the United Continental Holdings umbrella, allowing a higher level of service and pay compared to a total 3rd party, but still not as high as UA direct staff.
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burnsie28
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:22 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 14):
JFK was protected, which makes the closing of the station entirely that much more suspicious.

I'm sure those people had the opportunity just to go over to LGA or EWR, not that it might be convenient for any of them.
 
COSPN
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:19 am

We didn't agree to paycuts it was forced on us ... The union local president was fired for letting this happen , so we will keep fighting to have same pay as the other stations NO B SCALE at UA .. Hope Oscar is back soon to fix this for the paycut stations
 
usflyer msp
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 4:27 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 17):
At least those employees will be under the United Continental Holdings umbrella, allowing a higher level of service and pay compared to a total 3rd party, but still not as high as UA direct staff.

What makes you think UGS will pay more than the 3rd party vendors? It will be the same crappy employees and the same crappy pay as the third party vendors; the only difference is that UCH will make more money since they will not have to cover the vendor's profit margin....
 
IPFreely
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 5:32 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 14):
JFK was protected, which makes the closing of the station entirely that much more suspicious.

What is suspicious about it? If UA decides to reopen JFK at some future date with outsourced operations there will be a court case to determine if they are in violation of the contract.

If the courts find that the contract must be honored, JFK will likely be a minimal operation that will quickly be closed.

If the courts find that the contract ended when JFK was closed, and a re-opened JFK is not covered by the contract and can be outsourced, then most other stations will briefly "close", only to quickly re-open with outsourced employees.

JFK makes a nice test case because UA has nothing to lose there if they want it closed anyway.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 6:49 am

I felt all warm and fuzzy reading this today. I can now go out and buy that new weed eater I also wanted.

1. The company already outsourced what they wanted.
2. Posted six days after shutting down JFK and affecting 300+ employees.

The Wall Street Journal headline pretty much sums it up.

United Continental to Pause Airport-Job Outsourcing Until End of 2016
 
ericm2031
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:01 am

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 20):
What makes you think UGS will pay more than the 3rd party vendors? It will be the same crappy employees and the same crappy pay as the third party vendors; the only difference is that UCH will make more money since they will not have to cover the vendor's profit margin....

This is true. Pay across the vendors is very similar, but it's the benefits that separate them. DGS/Envoy/UGE get the flying benefits that not all ground handers get, so they typically actually get lower pay. They also usually get medical benefits that a lot of vendors don't offer, especially to part timers.

I think the main benefit to UA will be the control of their product. They have completely lost control of their quality and their standards by having so many different vendors out there. And I don't completely blame the vendors. I've seen stations transition from 1 ground handler to another and there has been very little oversight by UA of the process. I think maybe they have learned more now.

Just an example...

Alaska stations a supervisor of their own at every one of their contracted stations, even if there is just 1 flight per day. United will give 1 person an entire region to watch with hundreds of flights per day. 1 person can't possibly put the focus needed per station when they are overseeing that many...they will only be able to focus on those who are struggling. If outsourcing is truly that cost-saving, then they need to at least put forth an effort to manage those stations instead of letting the ground handlers decide what kind of product to present to their customers.
 
T5towbar
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:47 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 3):
I suspect they need time to get their own version of DL's DGS up and running. I believe they're calling it United Ground Services.

They will continue outsourcing--to their vendor--once it's ready.

That's true for the stations that are already outsourced. No sense of giving any more money to your direct competitors. All of those stations already using Envoy and DGS will probably be the first candidates, once they find people.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 14):
JFK was protected, which makes the closing of the station entirely that much more suspicious.

JFK is in the NY Point (EWR;LGA;JFK). But all it did was to inconvenienced the JFK members to either bump into LGA, or come to EWR. And a few took out packages. JFK was one of the protected stations. EWR was cut so deep, rumor has it that they will probably hire off the street because many of the furloughs won't come back.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 12):
So what cities beside the hub cities are protected? I remember that JFK was protected from outsourcing. I wonder what most of the staff there is doing now?

It's now 22 Stations (including the loss of JFK) and the 7 hubs for a total of 29. And at least 5 Stations took cuts to stay.

Quoting COSPN (Reply 19):
We didn't agree to paycuts it was forced on us ... The union local president was fired for letting this happen , so we will keep fighting to have same pay as the other stations NO B SCALE at UA .. Hope Oscar is back soon to fix this for the paycut stations

That's the fight in when the new contract comes around: Protect the 29 remaining stations & hubs (along with the Express work @ ORD; IAH; and EWR) and restore the paycuts for the people how had to take them. No compromises on those two vital items!! IMHO, those can be accomplished, hell the metrics throughout the system weren't the best, but have been improving these last few months. Especially with the upcoming talks with AA and the Association (IAM&TWU). That will probably set the tone and landscape for our upcoming talks in '16. Especially if the AA members keep strong scope. As we've learned, SCOPE is more important than pay raises. Many took the money the last time and paid dearly...........

Quoting jayunited (Reply 13):
You are exactly correct the remaining line stations that could have been targeted accepted an amendment to the contract that save their station and jobs which protected those stations in the interim preventing UA from taking further action until the current agreement expires. However make no mistake UA is by no means done I think United Ground Express (UA's version of DL;s DGS) is coming and from what i'm hearing it will be full operational by the end of 2016 just in time for contract negotiations. So moving forward UA probably will not contract work out to outside vendors and replace many vendors with United Ground Express. But the people who will be forced to move from United Airlines to United Ground Express will technically be UA employees however they will not receive UA pay and benefits they will be paid a lower wage and more than likely if UA has its way the future UGE employees will probably not be union employees it is the only way UGE can make the numbers work employees pay would be somewhere in the vicinity of what current vendors are being paid.

I know employees are hoping employee relations improves and I hope they will as well, that being said I don't think that just because Jeff is gone UA is going to abandon United Ground Express.

We all know that UGS is coming, and they will have a lot of stations to build on. What I am speaking of is we have to keep the work we presently have. Most of what is left are the larger stations that still have mainline flights. The last three rounds of outsourcing took away a lot of the Tier 2 & 3 cities. The District would probably like to organize UGS, but it better not be at the expense of the members at UA. There will be no "B" scale here. What the company should do is offer much better out packages when contact talks come around. That way you can get the natural attrition and get some new blood here at mainline.

This announcement was done in part, because when Oscar traveled the system, he have seen the low morale and heard directly from the troops without a management filter (He actually went around without someone from station or hub management because he wanted to hear the unfiltered truth) He was shooing away hub management when he came to our hub. He had just one person (who was badged) with him when he visited the breakrooms and ramp.

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 20):
What makes you think UGS will pay more than the 3rd party vendors? It will be the same crappy employees and the same crappy pay as the third party vendors; the only difference is that UCH will make more money since they will not have to cover the vendor's profit margin....

Pay and benefits will be comparable to Envoy and DGS. They will offer flight benefits on UA and UAX at a lower priority. They have to do it to attract people. It keeps control of the product as they will be training with the same processes as a mainline employee. And it saves money by not paying a third party.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
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malaysia
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 7:28 pm

Thought it was called United Ground Express or something not UGS

Quoting COSPN (Reply 19):
We didn't agree to paycuts it was forced on us ... The union local president was fired for letting this happen , so we will keep fighting to have same pay as the other stations NO B SCALE at UA .. Hope Oscar is back soon to fix this for the paycut stations

Was this SPN or GUM?
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TWA772LR
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:03 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 20):

Uniteds name is actually part of the nme of the company they work for, and UA will definately be all over the training moreso than TK was for me when I worked at Menzies. At vendors, you get a basic training. The only training you get from the airline is your boss being a total dick go you while your bit*h of a lead teaches you the system.

And plus, I'd work harder too if I got all kinds of insurance and flight benefits just because I would actually be happier. And watch what you're saying about the "crappy" service and employees vendors hire, I, along with a lot of us on a.net, were/are vendors. I was so good that I even became a Personal Assistant for LH at IAH.
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United1
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:39 pm

Quoting malaysia (Reply 25):
Thought it was called United Ground Express or something not UGS

It is United Ground Express....
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COSPN
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sat Oct 31, 2015 11:33 pm

it's one of the last Midwest stations with ATW and BTW employees; but we took a paycut ; so we are subsidizing our brothers and sisters in ORD and the other hubs and full pay line stations like PIT .. So we are not happy about our B scale and loss of 401k
 
sldispatcher
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:55 am

Did the pay scales vary by station based on cost of living or otherwise?

I have mixed feelings on all of this because I understand, from a business standpoint, that labor overhead can eat your bottom line up before you know it. I also know that some of the outsourced labor have treated me nicer than the mainline folks at the gate or onboard the plane. It really is about the hiring, orientation, and training process and how that fits into a company's culture. Won't matter what you pay if the culture is bad. Often times, pay and benefits are not even what is at the top of the list of an employee's wishes. I would think stability and security would be a great start.

Here is wishing the very best to all affected employees. I know I appreciate the sacrifices made to work in some pretty wretched weather conditions, under stress, at all hours of the day and night.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:55 am

The only reason the company would send this info to the media is to boost their stock price. The company already knows they can't outsource anything else under the current CBA.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:15 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 26):
Uniteds name is actually part of the nme of the company they work for, and UA will definately be all over the training moreso than TK was for me when I worked at Menzies. At vendors, you get a basic training. The only training you get from the airline is your boss being a total dick go you while your bit*h of a lead teaches you the system.

So what? When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys as UA's poor customer service scores attest to. No amount of training can overcome that.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 26):
And plus, I'd work harder too if I got all kinds of insurance and flight benefits just because I would actually be happier. And watch what you're saying about the "crappy" service and employees vendors hire, I, along with a lot of us on a.net, were/are vendors. I was so good that I even became a Personal Assistant for LH at IAH.

There are exceptions to every rule but I would argues that if the vendor/LH thought you were so good and valuable they would reward you financially for it. Money talks....

Insurance and Travel benefits are worthless when you cannot afford to use them...
 
T5towbar
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:34 am

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 30):
The only reason the company would send this info to the media is to boost their stock price. The company already knows they can't outsource anything else under the current CBA

They were going to close the Res Centers in HNL and DTW, I think. Now that may be on hold, or if it isn't. I'm not sure.
Whatever is left is presently under scope. That is why it is important to keep what is left, and to restore those folks back to full pay and benefits who had to take the cuts like IND; ATL; SAT; etc; and the Hawaiian stations (other than HNL which is under scope).

Quoting COSPN (Reply 28):
it's one of the last Midwest stations with ATW and BTW employees; but we took a paycut ; so we are subsidizing our brothers and sisters in ORD and the other hubs and full pay line stations like PIT .. So we are not happy about our B scale and loss of 401k

I'm not happy about that either. That is why the restoration for you all should be one of the main priorities (if the main, along with protecting existing work) coming up on contract talks.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
UA444
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:33 am

SMF kept ATW correct?
 
shuttle9juliet
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:05 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 12):

Heathrow ???
 
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ramprat74
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:56 pm

Quoting shuttle9juliet (Reply 34):
SMF kept ATW correct?

Yes, with a pay cut. One station that stands out is BIL. The company didn't have one vendor bid to take over the station but they were still forced to take the pay and benefit cuts.
 
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malaysia
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:09 pm

I was googling around to see if the ramp contract for UA existed online and found it, its available for the public on the IAM 141 website. I was looking through it and found the following

"The Company will not contract out to outside vendor(s) the “core” work
currently performed by Fleet Service employees at the following airports: Denver
(DEN), Newark (EWR), Washington Dulles (IAD), Houston (IAH), Los Angeles (LAX),
Chicago (ORD), and San Francisco (SFO)"

"the contract requires insourcing for all customer service and ramp at the following

Ramp

Washington National (DCA)
New York Kennedy (JFK)
Las Vegas (LAS)
Orlando (MCO)
Portland (PDX)
Phoenix (PHX)
San Diego (SAN)
Seattle (SEA)
Tampa (TPA)

Customer Service (UAX)

Washington Dulles (IAD)

Ramp Operations & Customer Service

Honolulu (HNL)"

And found the following paragraph

"The Company may not contract out work to outside vendors at the
following airports that would cause an involuntary furlough for employees employed as
of the Effective Date of this Agreement at the airport(s) where the contracting out occurs

Austin (AUS), Boston (BOS), Baltimore Washington (BWI), Cleveland (CLE),
Washington National (DCA), Dallas-Fort Worth (DFW), Fort Lauderdale (FLL), Guam
(GUM), Honolulu (HNL), New York Kennedy (JFK), Las Vegas (LAS), New York
LaGuardia (LGA), Orlando (MCO), Minneapolis (MSP), New Orleans (MSY), Portland
(PDX), Philadelphia (PHL), Phoenix (PHX), Pittsburgh (PIT), San Diego (SAN), Seattle
(SEA), Orange County (SNA), and Tampa (TPA)"

So it looks like any station not included above is still ripe for outsourcing if they still have UA workers?

And interesting how GUM is not really up in the top section with the hubs and those below could be next to be farmed out during new contract?
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:24 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 31):
So what? When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys as UA's poor customer service scores attest to. No amount of training can overcome that.

Little hard when you're being forced to like someone by the same people who can't get their crap together. That takes a huge toll on employee morale. I would know, both of my parents are sCO and they are/were put through the grinder hard with the merger. And I'm sure my parents situations arent an isolated incident. It's like forcing an old cat and an old dog to get along. It takes a while for them to warm up and then they like each other. This still is a hard merger for all involved, they gotta fix the in-house issues before they can fix customer service. Shit does flow downhill...
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:47 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 31):
When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys as UA's poor customer service scores attest to. No amount of training can overcome that.

I don't know that it has much to do with pay. UA's customer service scores have always been at or near the bottom of the industry, regardless of insourced, outsourced, high pay, low pay, bankruptcy, or otherwise.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
ordbosewr
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RE: United Suspends Airport Outsourcing Until 2017

Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:43 pm

Update: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united...agree-open-contract-150000690.html

From article, "United has extended through Jan. 15, 2019, its commitment not to contract out work currently performed by the IAM-represented group at all hub and station airport locations."

That is longer than the previously mentioned halt.

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