ltbewr
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:31 pm

It is sad to wake up to TV news reports of a plane crash, no matter what country the airline is from. RIP to the victims and condolences to family members and friends of those who's lives were lost.

To me it seems to be a sudden mechanical failure like a engine or some problem with a structural or control component. I haven't seen anything as to weather related issues. Based on preliminary comments on the crash site and the description of the remains of the aircraft, it seemed to have gone into a flat spin, there was some control involved as it lost altitude, not a nose dive into terrain. That the remains of the a/c are accessible means a quick retrieval of the CVR and FDR, very important to understand what may have happened and hopefully soon.
 
b747400erf
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:36 pm

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
It's been located and hasn't crashed. Everyone back to work.

Turkish ATC has restablished contact and it is passing through their airspace. Ninemsn has h
Just updated saying the aircraft is safe. So no crash has occurred

Why do people post this when they obviously do not have all the information? You posted this in such confidence and it is so horribly and tragically wrong.
 
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RayChuang
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:40 pm

Given the age of the plane--18 years--the idea of a faulty overhaul repair shouldn't be discounted. We'll find out more once the CVR and FDR are recovered to get the preliminary data.
 
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Ty134A
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:47 pm

http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1559116/

obviously no survivors...
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AirlineCritic
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:59 pm

My condolences to the affected.

It is beneficial to not rely too much on the initial reports, be they about survivors or lack thereof, messages from the crew, eyewitness statements, and the like. I'd rely on flightradar24 information ... to some extent. The messages are not sent too often though, and the final moments can be faulty for various reasons. Or completely blocked, like in MH370. I'd also rely on historical data about the aircraft in question, assuming we've got the registration correctly.

And there are a ton of reasons why things might go wrong even at cruise. Too early to jump to the conclusion that this is like AF447 or any of the specific other accidents.
 
uta999
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:12 pm

A Russian a/c now holding at 350 north of Sinai, diverting to the east
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RJAF
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:17 pm

ISIS now claiming to have shot down the aircraft. Can't really tell from the video.

https://www.facebook.com/postjor/videos/vb.278143852285642/703421069757916/?type=2&theater
Chance favors the prepared mind
 
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Aeroflot777
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:18 pm

RIP to those who lost their lives.

Seems like most Russian news sources are saying that pilots of the airline have consistently reported to management that there have been numerous engine problem with this particular aircraft. If true, I hope these things get uncovered fast and everyone responsible for continuing to let the machine fly be put behind bars.

Too early to speak for certain though.
 
Viper911
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:29 pm

Quoting uta999 (Reply 106):
A Russian a/c now holding at 350 north of Sinai, diverting to the east

And now it disappeared.

Hope it's some sort of another FR24 mistakes.

Viper911
 
uta999
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:31 pm

Can someone tell us who that Russian a/c was and where it is now?
Your computer just got better
 
Viper911
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:45 pm

Quoting uta999 (Reply 110):
Can someone tell us who that Russian a/c was and where it is now?

By the looks of it, it was flight 1901 operated by Nordwind Airlines to Hurghada. ETA at 15:48 (in 6 minutes)
It's a 738 but I cannot locate it on FR24 nor on plane finder
Viper 911.

[Edited 2015-10-31 06:45:36]
 
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LTU330
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:45 pm

VQ-BUV, a Norwind 737 was showing on FR24 around that time at FL350 but I don't see it now. It could be that one. Hopefully just a FR24 blind spot or glitch.
 
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teme82
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:46 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 108):
Seems like most Russian news sources are saying that pilots of the airline have consistently reported to management that there have been numerous engine problem with this particular aircraft. If true, I hope these things get uncovered fast and everyone responsible for continuing to let the machine fly be put behind bars.

Anyway that sounds bad. I wonder what happens those management guys when they are found guilty.

R.I.P. to those who lost their lives in this horrible crash.
Flying high and low
 
CO764
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:49 pm

Quoting Viper911 (Reply 111):
By the looks of it, it was flight 1901 operated by Nordwind Airlines to Hurghada. ETA at 15:48 (in 6 minutes)
It's a 738 but I cannot locate it on FR24 nor on plane finder
Viper 911.
Quoting Viper911 (Reply 111):

VQ-BUV, a Norwind 737 was showing on FR24 around that time at FL350 but I don't see it now. It could be that one. Hopefully just a FR24 blind spot or glitch.

I'm pretty sure it's just a glitch - if you look at the Flightradar24 tracking history of that particular aircraft, it often ends abruptly mid-flight. Could be a minor transponder issue.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/vq-buv/
 
MadameConcorde
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:51 pm

Sad day.

RIP Russian passenger plane crash victims

13:39 GMT

According to Egypt's security forces, as cited by Reuters, a technical fault was to blame for the crash.

Search and rescue teams are finding bodies in a radius of up to 5km (3.1 miles) from the crash site. Approximately 150, some burnt, have been pulled out of the wreckage so far.

The sources say the aircraft took almost a vertical trajectory as it plummeted down. Large parts of the fuselage burned in the process.

http://www.rt.com/news/320225-plane-crash-russian-egypt/

    
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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pvjin
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:52 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 115):
Search and rescue teams are finding bodies in a radius of up to 5km (3.1 miles) from the crash site. Approximately 150, some burnt, have been pulled out of the wreckage so far.

If that's true it would seem like the aircraft broke up midair at some point.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
Viper911
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:55 pm

Quoting CO764 (Reply 114):
I'm pretty sure it's just a glitch - if you look at the Flightradar24 tracking history of that particular aircraft, it often ends abruptly mid-flight. Could be a minor transponder issue.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/vq-buv/

Well that's reassuring! I was really scared there for a second.

Viper911
 
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qf789
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 1:58 pm

Airbus has issued a statement

The aircraft had 56000 flights hours and some 21000 flight cycles

http://www.airbus.com/crisis/
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:00 pm

The guardian now reports that local authorities claims technical fault as the cause after inspecting the scene.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/liv...ive#block-5634c6ebe4b014cafaeb4b99

[Edited 2015-10-31 07:02:55]
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Thenoflyzone
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:04 pm

Quoting uta999 (Reply 106):
A Russian a/c now holding at 350 north of Sinai, diverting to the east
Quoting Viper911 (Reply 109):
And now it disappeared.
Quoting Viper911 (Reply 111):

By the looks of it, it was flight 1901 operated by Nordwind Airlines to Hurghada. ETA at 15:48 (in 6 minutes)
It's a 738 but I cannot locate it on FR24 nor on plane finder
Quoting LTU330 (Reply 112):

VQ-BUV, a Norwind 737 was showing on FR24 around that time at FL350 but I don't see it now. It could be that one. Hopefully just a FR24 blind spot or glitch.

Relax guys. That aircraft is not ADSB equipped. Hence why it disappeared. Its position was being triangulated by MLAT. Once out of range of at least 3 or 4 FR24 receivers, it disappears. It is normal. Same thing happened with another 737 one hour before (UKM781). No ADSB on that one either.

When you click on a particular flight on FR24, under the RADAR banner on the info page of the aircraft, if you see T-MLAT, it means the plane has no ADSB. If you see F-XXXX1 or 2, 3 etc (XXXX being the location of the receiver, often same as the ICAO airport code of the nearest airport to the receiver), then the aircraft is ADSB equipped.

Quoting CO764 (Reply 114):
I'm pretty sure it's just a glitch - if you look at the Flightradar24 tracking history of that particular aircraft, it often ends abruptly mid-flight. Could be a minor transponder issue.

 checkmark  No ADSB, as I said. It's normal.

[Edited 2015-10-31 07:13:22]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
dubaiamman243
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:11 pm

Al Jazeera reports that ISIS was behind the fatal crash of today's flight
The next airline CEO :crossfingers:
 
PanAm1971
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:17 pm

Quoting RJAF (Reply 107):
ISIS now claiming to have shot down the aircraft. Can't really tell from the video.https://www.facebook.com/postjor/videos/vb.278143852285642/703421069757916/?type=2&theater

Looks pretty fake to me.
 
IndianicWorld
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:18 pm

^^ They often seem to claim responsibility for things as a way of some kind of PR strategy, but at the end of the day it's often found to be completely false.

This may well be another poor attempt at trying to use a sad accident for their own cause.

RIP to all those on board and our hearts also go out to their family and friends.
 
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kc135topboom
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:20 pm

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 119):
The guardian now reports that local authorities claims technical fault as the cause after inspecting the scene.http://www.theguardian.com/world/liv...ive#block-5634c6ebe4b014cafaeb4b99

From your link:
"20m ago
09:54

An initial examination of the crash site does show the Russian passenger plane crashed in Egypt’s Sinai peninsula due to a technical fault, security sources in North Sinai have told Reuters.

About 150 bodies has so far been found, within roughly a three mile radius from the crashed aircraft.

The plane, he said, landed in a “vertical fashion” and had caught fire."

Key events
Show

31m ago
Russian transport regulator had found previous plane safety faults

1h ago
'No grounds to blame human error' - airline

2h ago
No survivors - Egyptian officials

2h ago
Crew members 'raised engine start failures with technicians'

3h ago
Crashed airliner's black boxes located - security officials

4h ago
'Voices' heard inside section of aircraft, official says

5h ago
Russian airliner crashes in Egypt with more than 200 on board

The possibilities I see at this time, in no particular order:
1. High altitude stall
2. Terrorist hijacking
3. Shot down by a SAM fired by a terrorist group in the Sinai (not a MANPAD)

Since human remains have been found 3 miles away, that indicates the airliner broke up during its rapid decent. This is consistent with all three possibilities.

ISIS and other terrorist groups have been fighting Egyptian Military and Police forces in the Sinai.

The Israeli IDF has offered assistance to both Egypt and Russia.

[Edited 2015-10-31 07:29:24]
 
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enilria
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:23 pm

IS Claims responsibility

14:10
The jihadist group Islamic State (IS) claims that it downed Flight KGL9268 in a statement published on the Telegram messaging app.

The crash site is in an area where the Egyptian government is fighting an insurgency led by a local IS affiliate called Sinai Province. But Egyptian security sources earlier said there was no indication that the plane had been shot down or blown up.


http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-34687309
 
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pvjin
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:27 pm

I highly doubt it was shot down, assuming that ISIS group in Sinai has no access to anything like a Buk missile system. A bomb on the other hand remains a possibility.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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lesfalls
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:28 pm

R.I.P to all the passengers. Can't belive what's been happening in 2014 and 2015.
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enilria
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:30 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 126):

I highly doubt it was shot down, assuming that ISIS group in Sinai has no access to anything like a Buk missile system. A bomb on the other hand remains a possibility.

It would appear the statement was vague enough to allow for an onboard device. It would seem to have been to high otherwise.

Most crashes from that altitude are either cargo related or terrorism. There shouldn't have been any lithium battery type cargo on a flight like that, but I suppose that is possible.
 
Kaiarahi
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:34 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 78):
The crash happened to a Russian airliner on Egyptian soil, meaning the investigative authorities of both countries will be involved. It remains to see how much information they will be willing to give Airbus (and the BEA, if it becomes involved), and how much of what they know they will wish to share to the public

Under Annex 13 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, Egypt will lead the investigation. Russia, as the state of registration, and France (BEA) as the state of manufacture, are required to be full participants. The Annex also requires the final report to be made public.
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jreuschl
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:35 pm

It seems hard to believe that some already are claiming:

- ISIS shot it down

or

- It is already known it was a technical fault
 
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Francoflier
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:35 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 124):
The possibilities I see at this time, in no particular order:
1. High altitude stall
2. Terrorist hijacking
3. Shot down by a SAM fired by a terrorist group in the Sinai (not a MANPAD)

...An obvious candidate at this stage is an onboard bomb.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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flyingturtle
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:36 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 128):
Most crashes from that altitude are either cargo related or terrorism. There shouldn't have been any lithium battery type cargo on a flight like that, but I suppose that is possible.

This was a tourist charter, as it started in SSH. No lithium battery cargo, and who would bomb a plane full of tourists? Because of a lack of accessible higher-value targets, like a 777 from LHR to JFK?


David
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uta999
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:39 pm

Until we know more, I think the airway should be closed.

Qatar just sent through an A380, followed by an A350
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OV735
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:40 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 129):
Under Annex 13 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, Egypt will lead the investigation. Russia, as the state of registration, and France (BEA) as the state of manufacture, are required to be full participants. The Annex also requires the final report to be made public.

Mind you, the state of registration is Ireland, not Russia. Although Russia is, in all aspects, the most interested party here and will most probably take part in the investigation.
 
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pvjin
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:40 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 132):
. No lithium battery cargo, and who would bomb a plane full of tourists? Because of a lack of accessible higher-value targets, like a 777 from LHR to JFK?

Bombing a plane full of Russian tourists would be an useful way for an terrorist organization to attack Russia specifically, perhaps due to Putin's support to Assad? A regular non-charter flight would most likely have people of other nationalities on board too, this one didn't apart from a couple of Ukrainians.

Quoting uta999 (Reply 133):
Qatar just sent through an A380, followed by an A350

I don't think Qatar has much to worry about, ISIS wouldn't bite a feeding hand.

[Edited 2015-10-31 07:41:43]
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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Ty134A
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:43 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 131):
...An obvious candidate at this stage is an onboard bomb.

yep, it is pretty easy for airport employees to do that if they wanted to. just imagine hundreds of workers passing through the strictest security there is, still allows them to assemble parts they smuggle into the "clean" area of the airport to whatever they want.

i really hope it is not a terrorist act for all involved, since i believe we would see a rather emotional reaction by the russian air force on the IS.
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Byrdluvs747
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:44 pm

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 130):

It seems hard to believe that some already are claiming:

- ISIS shot it down

IS themselves are claiming to have "brought" it down.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
IndianicWorld
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:45 pm

If we closed all air routes through that area of the world it will just play into the hands of such organisations that thrive on fear and the ability to disrupt life as we know it.

Let's wait until a formal investigation is done and don't talk up theories without any evidence.
 
milesrich
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:46 pm

When Russian backed Ukrainian rebels shot down the Malaysian Flight 17, they opened a hornet's nest. If this is a terrorist act, perhaps it will give Putin a slightly altered view of things.
 
Aither
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:47 pm

It looks like it exploded and burnt mid air from the reports.
Are there any examples in the recent civil aviation history of an aircraft being destroyed mid air for another reason than a bomb or a missile ?
Never trust the obvious
 
uta999
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:48 pm

I don't suppose Malaysian thought they would be a target over the Ukraine either.
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enilria
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:55 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 132):
No lithium battery cargo,

There could be a box of lithium batteries somebody was shipping (passenger, airline employee), but I agree there was no air freight forwarder style cargo. Given the sanctions on Russia, this could be a route to get things in to Russia without going through EU, but I agree that is all unlikely.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 132):
who would bomb a plane full of tourists?
Quoting pvjin (Reply 135):
Bombing a plane full of Russian tourists would be an useful way for an terrorist organization to attack Russia specifically, perhaps due to Putin's support to Assad? A regular non-charter flight would most likely have people of other nationalities on board too, this one didn't apart from a couple of Ukrainians.

I had the same thought.

Follow-up from BBC
http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-34687309
The IS statement does not say how militants downed the plane. Sinai Province has shoulder-launched surface-to-air missiles (Manpads). However, security experts say that as the plane was flying at 31,000ft (9,450m), it would have been beyond the range of any Manpad missiles.
 
Pihero
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:01 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 129):
Under Annex 13 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, Egypt will lead the investigation. Russia, as the state of registration, and France (BEA) as the state of manufacture, are required to be full participants. The Annex also requires the final report to be made public.

It's now a bit more complicated as there also is a *State of Registry* : Ireland.
The states of design / manufacture and the state of the operator will have to liaise with the Irish authorities.
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lowbank
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:05 pm

Piecing together some of the initial reports.
Assuming these to be factual and we don't really know yet.
Pilot communicated an engine issue and asked for landing
There appears to be reports of a fire.

In the airline industry there have been several disc failures, this type of failure is capable of bringing down a plane. I hope I am wrong but that's what I am leaning towards on initial reports
Every days a school day.
 
Prost
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:10 pm

What type of engines did this 321 have?
 
aviationaware
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:11 pm

ISIS has lots and lots of weapons they took from Iraqi forces and many other people when they were just inept and fled, vacating the expensive equipment they were stupidly given by the failed Obama administration; and they can probably move it around freely down there because all of these Arab nations like Saudi Arabia and Qatar are not opposing but funding ISIS and many other terrorist organizations.

100% they could have shot down an airliner, no idea if they did in this case but anyone who doubts they are capable of it are living in a world of make belief.
 
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Btblue
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:13 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 145):
What type of engines did this 321 have?

IAE V2500s
 
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aerolimani
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:15 pm

 
Scipio
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:16 pm

Info and pictures of the crashed frame (MSN 663):

http://www.planespotters.net/airfram...us/A321/663/EI-ETJ-Metrojet-Russia
 
SeeTheWorld
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Kolavia A321 crashes in Sinai / Egypt - Part 1

Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:17 pm

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 146):
ISIS has lots and lots of weapons they took from Iraqi forces and many other people when they were just inept and fled, vacating the expensive equipment they were stupidly given by the failed Obama administration; and they can probably move it around freely down there because all of these Arab nations like Saudi Arabia and Qatar are not opposing but funding ISIS and many other terrorist organizations.

100% they could have shot down an airliner, no idea if they did in this case but anyone who doubts they are capable of it are living in a world of make belief.

The failed Obama administration ??? ... FACTS PLEASE ... comments like that discredit your post ...

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