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aa87
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:13 am

The only thing that seems (almost) certain is an in-flight breakup - from human sabotage or a mechanical failure. We'll know soon enough after recorders are analyzed.

My only comments is no one should assume what the terrorists do and do not have -- and for the latter, only a matter of time. MH17 is the new normal, and the key challenge for global aviation for the foreseeable future is countermeasures. RIP to all of the innocent human beings lost.
 
B2707SST
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:21 am



Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 96):
Exactly, implying that the top of the fuselage is what hit the ground.
Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 97):
Yes but look where the flattened part is. It looks to have landed inverted.

If it was an inflight breakup (which it does look like), that limits the possible causes quite a bit, does it not?

Thanks, I misinterpreted the caption. If that is impact compression and not something else, it does look like it hit almost perfectly inverted, which would make it hard for the weight of a wing or a tail to roll the fuselage over. That implies either a lot of rotational inertia or a lateral velocity component at impact. Hard to tell if there are signs of a skid in the photos we've seen.

[Edited 2015-10-31 19:21:38]
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kaneporta1
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:39 am

Quoting galleypower (Reply 76):
When I look at the pictures I can see the following...
The wing appears to be upside down. Same with the cockpit, it is smashed from the top while the bottom is fairly intact. This could mean it hit the ground upside down.

The wingsection appears to be fairly intact, so no sliding over the bottom. This supports the idea ofit has fallen from the sky.

The tail section gives me headaches. One pic you see the h/stabilizers, pretty charred and nothing else around it. How did it get seperated? The v/stabilzer with the doors are not burned at all and look like they hit the ground in the right position.

Exactly my observation.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 78):
Are you sure the wings are upside down?

From the photos that I have seen, at least one wing is upside down. Haven't seen the other one.

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 89):
Man, this is weird. So as user diverted stated above, the wings are laid flat upside down, and the nose section looks to have also impacted flat but upside down. The tail section looks like it landed flat, but right side up.

Strange indeed. Seems like it hit the ground at a nose high attitude and some bank with reasonable forward speed. Tail and one wing could have broken off and then the rest of the aircraft flipped over.
I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
 
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Aesma
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:40 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 91):
I hate to even speculate a terrorist event here.... But.... If it was ISIS or ISIL, or whatever they claim they are... I hope Putin agrees to sit down with the US and other countries, and come up with a joint plan to destroy this group. I mean..... DESTROY it.
Quoting DDR (Reply 93):
I hope you are right. If this does turn out to be the work if ISIL, I hope Obama and Putin will finally work together and completely wipe these Islamic terrorist off the face of the planet.

How many thousands US soldiers are you ready to sacrifice in the process ?

BTW, Russia isn't even fighting ISIS, on the contrary it's helping it by bombing all the other groups.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
LTC8K6
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:52 am

 
A332DTW
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:01 am

First and foremost, my condolences to the bereaved.

Secondly, I wish I didn't have to comb through dozens of posts on political banter just to get some kind of picture on what the hell happened here. Anyway, the most puzzling thing to me is the drop in altitude, with a sharp drop in airspeed. If that is the case, it certainly did not nose over and dive.
 
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litz
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:20 am

I think the freakiest thing I read, concerning this crash, was rescuers arriving onsite, and hearing dozens and dozens of cellphones ringing inside the wreckage ...

All those families trying to reach loved ones ... 
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:26 am

I can barely believe what I just read on BBC:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34690936

Egypt's prime minister said a technical fault was the most likely cause, dismissing claims from Islamic State militants that they were responsible.

Egypt has already started to proffer its own truths to save face...
They'd rather blame the airplane straight away rather than acknowledge the presence of islamist radical activists on its soil and its lackadaisical airport security.

As I feared, that doesn't bode well for the investigation.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
cbphoto
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:55 am

Everyone is so focused on terrorism and while it's a definite possibility that terrorism may have played a role, there are many other possibilities. An engine failure, followed by a high altitude deep stall would produce similar results to the aircraft falling rapidly. The crew may have almost recovered from the stall when it hit the ground, which would explain why why bigger intact pieces are visible . Just pure speculation, but other scenarios do exist, besides terrorism.
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LTC8K6
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:58 am

Quoting litz (Reply 106):
I think the freakiest thing I read, concerning this crash, was rescuers arriving onsite, and hearing dozens and dozens of cellphones ringing inside the wreckage ...

All those families trying to reach loved ones ...

Why would dozens of cell phones survive the impact?

I'm sure a few might.
 
N415XJ
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:11 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 109):
Why would dozens of cell phones survive the impact?

I'm sure a few might.

Out of the 200 people on that plane, I'm sure there were at LEAST 200 cell phones between them. This is 2015 after all. So it's not inconceivable that out of 200, 10 or 20 survived.
 
aa87
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:13 am

I am NOT/NOT feeding or advocating conspiracy theories, but just curious, could the CVR/DVR data be altered or fabricated by someone w access ? I'm assuming no, at least not with modern digital technology it would either be impossible or obvious. Is that correct ?
 
hoya
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:18 am

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 110):
Out of the 200 people on that plane, I'm sure there were at LEAST 200 cell phones between them. This is 2015 after all. So it's not inconceivable that out of 200, 10 or 20 survived.

But since this crash happened in a remote part of the Sinai peninsula, how did the phones get service?
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LTC8K6
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:21 am

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 110):

Out of the 200 people on that plane, I'm sure there were at LEAST 200 cell phones between them. This is 2015 after all. So it's not inconceivable that out of 200, 10 or 20 survived.

I'm glad we agree then.

I just think 10 or 20 out of 200 is not "dozens and dozens", but "a few".
 
heavymetal
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:22 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 44):
Quoting galleypower (Reply 76):
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 78):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 85):

Not sure if this has been posted earlier in this thread or in thread # 1, but this exact aircraft (MSN 663) had a tailstrike with "substantial damage" in Egypt back in 2001. I would not jump to any terrorist or "government coverup" conclusions yet based on the FlightRadar24 data, the pictures, and the incident history of the airplane. The appropriate authorities will ensure the facts are reported in the accident report.

Middle East Airlines tailstrike in 2001: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20011116-0

Metrojet accident: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20151031-0
 
LTC8K6
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:24 am

Would a cell phone signal be available at the crash site?
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:25 am

Quoting litz (Reply 106):

I think the freakiest thing I read, concerning this crash, was rescuers arriving onsite, and hearing dozens and dozens of cellphones ringing inside the wreckage ...

All those families trying to reach loved ones ... 

Where did you read this? I just find it unbelievable that anything besides the FDR and CVR still work after looking at the crash site. Not to mention getting service in the Sinai? I can't get service in the elevator in my building a kilometer from the tower, never mind in the middle of a desert.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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SAS A340
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:29 am

""According to Russian news media, investigators will looking through Domodedovo Airport who was the plane's base. Investigators will also take samples of jet fuel at the site where the plane was last refueled, the Russian city of Samara.""
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article21680956.ab

Ok.... that can´t be right... right? regarding the fuel? Don´t you refuele from the airport you take off from? or did it come from Samara with no passengers?
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Spacepope
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:49 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 115):

Apparently, based on initial reports, yes.
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F9Animal
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:57 am

Wow.... It pancaked like AF 447. The tail section photos show the bottom portion of the exit door bent in. The nose section appears smashed as well. Was it clear weather wise?

Quoting Aesma (Reply 103):
How many thousands US soldiers are you ready to sacrifice in the process ?

BTW, Russia isn't even fighting ISIS, on the contrary it's helping it by bombing all the other groups.

Whatever it takes. I can tell you this much. If this crash was the results of ISIS, Putin will no doubt make every effort to seek justice for this. I am not a political fan, nor am I sticking up for Putin. However, Putin would have the responsibility to stick up for the people of Russia if this was a terrorist related event.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
dc863
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:00 am

Quoting SAS A340 (Reply 117):
Don´t you refuele from the airport you take off from? or did it come from Samara with no passengers?

Depends on how expensive fuel is at that particular station. Some airlines during the '73/'74 Oil Embargo would tank up at airports where fuel was cheaper along their route. Of course that's a dire situation.
 
dc863
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:03 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 119):
Whatever it takes. I can tell you this much. If this crash was the results of ISIS, Putin will no doubt make every effort to seek justice for this. I am not a political fan, nor am I sticking up for Putin. However, Putin would have the responsibility to stick up for the people of Russia if this was a terrorist related event.

If this was a terrorist bombing it would show that certain backers of IS or any similar group have the terrorist card to play against Russia's military involvement in Syria against the Sunnis.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:29 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 107):
Egypt has already started to proffer its own truths to save face...
They'd rather blame the airplane straight away rather than acknowledge the presence of islamist radical activists on its soil and its lackadaisical airport security.

With good reason. There is no solid reason to think that IS brought down this aircraft. Terrorists claim responsibility every time a plane crashes for even minorly mysterious reasons. Even when it is terrorism, IIRC a few hundred terrorist groups claimed responsibility on 9/11. If not hundreds, it was certainly tens.

There had been some speculation that the tail had come off as part of the catastrophic final sequence of events, but the fact that the empennage was found with the main wreckage suggests that the aircraft was physically intact when it crashed.
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Aaron747
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:35 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 119):

Wow.... It pancaked like AF 447. The tail section photos show the bottom portion of the exit door bent in. The nose section appears smashed as well. Was it clear weather wise?

Yes, there was no noteworthy weather in the vicinity of the Sinai FIR at the time.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
N415XJ
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:39 am

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 113):
I'm glad we agree then.

I just think 10 or 20 out of 200 is not "dozens and dozens", but "a few".

Oh, I guess I read your post as 'dozen' singular, and that you were implying that only up to 12 or less would survive. I think it's likely that it would only be 10 or 20, but it could be more as cell phones are small and wouldn't be that affected by high Gs alone. If they were in pockets or bags, I'm sure a great deal of them could survive. I'm not a cell phone expert though so I could be wrong.

Quoting hoya (Reply 112):

But since this crash happened in a remote part of the Sinai peninsula, how did the phones get service?

Never said that the cell phone claim was valid, just said that phones could survive a crash unharmed. But, I've gotten a signal in pretty remote places before. Plus, on the map it looks like there were several small Egyptian and Israeli towns nearby, and in the flat desert environment one of the cell towers near them may be able to be picked up. So, I'm not saying that the phone claim is true or not, but it could be plausible.

[Edited 2015-10-31 22:39:42]
 
ly7e7
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:08 am

According to FR24 even the Russian airlines bound to SSH avoid northern and central Sinai airspace.
2 things are endless: ignorance and space
 
ltbewr
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:09 am

Considering this was a flight of several hours, and pretty much fully booked, I am surprised there isn't more fuel based fire damage.
Sadly political reality on the ground so to speak could lead to the public getting false information and affect the neutrality necessary to properly conduct the investigation. Egypt has a stake in to protect critical Egyptian tourism in a time of recent unrest within Egypt. There is pressure from all over the world to discourage a 'win' by any terrorist group (including ISIS or allied groups). A through investigation is needed with independence to get to the truth to reduce the risks of another crash.
 
aryonoco
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:19 am

Was just watching BBC World, they said the debris is scattered over a trail of over 8km. Surely that implies in flight break up, right?

And yet, apparently many of the cadavers were still in their seats with the seat belts holding them. How can that be true if the plane was broken up at 33FL?

I have no idea whether this was terrorism or mechanical failure or something else, I would just like to point out that both Egypt and Russia will have a vested interest in this accident not being an act of terrorism. Egypt because that will further undermine their tourism economy, and Russia as that may lead some Russians to question Putin's strategy of going into Syria.

Again, I am not suggesting that this was an act of terrorism, obviously it's way too early to say that. All I'm saying is that, there will be these biases amongst these governments, and who knows what pressures they might apply to their investigating team. Hopefully the French and Irish teams will be integral parts of the investigation as well, and there would be no questions as to the eventual investigation's report's credibility.
 
twinotter
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:25 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 122):
Even when it is terrorism, IIRC a few hundred terrorist groups claimed responsibility on 9/11. If not hundreds, it was certainly tens.

It was in fact zero. No group claimed responsibility on 9/11 or in the weeks following.
 
DCA2011
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:26 am

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 127):
And yet, apparently many of the cadavers were still in their seats with the seat belts holding them. How can that be true if the plane was broken up at 33FL?

Wind blast can just as easily hold something together as rip it apart. Probably a combination of rapid decompression causing rapid unconsciousness - meaning no intentional unbuckling, and wind force holding the cadavers to the seats.
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wjcandee
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:39 am

This is going to be some precipitating incident compounded by pilot error leading to high altitude upset, loss of control and a stall.

The aircraft departed almost exactly at sunrise, so it wasn't dark out when the incident occurred (e.g. horizon visible from cockpit) so you don't have the darkness to mask the attitude during a distraction, but still.
 
dc863
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:41 am

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 127):
Quoting aryonoco (Reply 127):
And yet, apparently many of the cadavers were still in their seats with the seat belts holding them. How can that be true if the plane was broken up at 33FL?

The airframe most likely broke up at lower altitude. The main wing box with wings fell flat so it was likely in a slow flat spin on it's way down. So far because of the terrain most likely, no reports have come in with sightings of wreckage or pieces downwind from the main crash site which would show something broke away first which then caused the plane to slowly break up into several large pieces as it fell.
 
wstakl
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:42 am

ISIS have released a vid of what they claim is the downing of the aircraft.
 
dc863
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:50 am

Quoting wstakl (Reply 132):
Quoting wstakl (Reply 132):
ISIS have released a vid of what they claim is the downing of the aircraft.

That isn't that horribly fake blurry out of focus video that came out earlier is it? The one that shows poorly animated black smoke coming from the "A321"?
 
Qantas744er
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:57 am

Regarding the fuel: Russian operators have been tankering as much as possible within Russia, to save on refueling outside the country. This due to the devaluation ofnthe ruble and thus significant increase in foreign fuel costs.
You live and you die, by the FMA
 
spacecadet
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:08 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 107):
They'd rather blame the airplane straight away rather than acknowledge the presence of islamist radical activists on its soil and its lackadaisical airport security.

Or, maybe it's that they actually have access to the accident site and can see the damage and make assessments for themselves, rather than sitting at home and offering up conspiracy theories based on no evidence whatsoever.

The speculation on PPrune, which is a lot more technical and less political than the speculation here, is that the tailstrike event might be very important. If you look at the photos, the horizontal stabilizer doesn't seem to be visible in any of the pictures of the empennage. In fact, there's a large section aft of the pressure bulkhead that seems to be missing. The tail itself seems to be missing a rather large chunk. And the ADS-B data, which various people have parsed to smooth out the conflicts, points to an in-flight breakup followed by a quick descent and loss of horizontal speed.

The main fuselage hit the ground inverted. The empennage - what's left of it, anyway - hit the ground upright. Where is the horizontal stabilizer and the rest of the tail?

None of this rules out a bomb or missile, but it's a lot more likely that something else happened here.

[Edited 2015-11-01 00:33:01]
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dc863
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:40 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 135):
Quoting spacecadet (Reply 135):
The speculation on PPrune, which is a lot more technical and less political than the speculation here, is that the tailstrike event might be very important

If you look at JAL 123 parts of the stabilizers and nearly the entire tail was blown off when the aft pressure bulkhead failed. Looking at the tail assembly for this A321 I don't see anything similar.
 
su184
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:00 am

All my condolences to all the families of the victims of this horrible accident.

With all due respect to all those assumptions here about what may have caused the crash, I find it a very fertile ground to seed an idea and water it till we get convinced that this is really what happened, starting from a mechanical/technical failure to sabotage, shot down by ISIS, pilot suicide, and now even inflight shoot down and looking for military aircraft flying in the same region at the same time, and going to the far end of tampering with the DFDR/CVR, this only but distracts anyone who is trying to follow the facts and only known facts. I am really upset by the idea of the aircraft might have been shot down however I don't deny it completely until we know the facts, this may have to do with being an Egyptian and fearing the consequences this may have on my country if it turned out to be true.
Egypt has modern accident investigation facilities with DFDR/CVR analysis lab, and by aviation law, Egypt should lead the investigation unless they decide to delegate someone else, others on board should be Russia, France and the USA (engine maker), so tampering with the recorders with all those contradicting parties involved seems highly unlikely to me.
Finally I hope we don't spend too much time speculating what has happened.
 
tu204
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:14 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 140):
He has responsibility to those cronies who keep him in power

Did you just call over 80% of the Russian population "cronies"?  
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Redd
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:27 am

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 127):
Was just watching BBC World, they said the debris is scattered over a trail of over 8km. Surely that implies in flight break up, right?

An 8km debris field leaves no doubt that there was an in flight break-up.

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 127):
And yet, apparently many of the cadavers were still in their seats with the seat belts holding them. How can that be true if the plane was broken up at 33FL?

Like other's have mentioned, it's entirely possible. Even possible to survive a fall from over 30,000 feet, just take a look at flight 367. The flight attendant fell from over 30,000 ft still strapped to her seat after a bomb went off and survived. Although not likely to happen again.
 
ZKCIF
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:31 am

Quoting su184 (Reply 141):
others on board should be Russia, France and the USA (engine maker)

why don't we start with Ireland?
the registry is not RA but EI
 
YoungMans
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:34 am

If the crash site is supposedly in mobile phone range, presumably in the vicinity of some sort of town or settlement, could one or indeed should one expect eyewitness reports?
Perhaps, because of the remoteness of the place, it'll take some time before 'independent' journalists are able to get there; that is, if they are allowed to venture there.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:40 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 130):
This is going to be some precipitating incident compounded by pilot error leading to high altitude upset, loss of control and a stall.

That's how it feels to me, too, though based only on casual observance of the info so far. It certainly would be the most plausible explanation outside of an onboard bomb IMHO.

-Dave
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MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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pvjin
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:42 am

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 127):
And yet, apparently many of the cadavers were still in their seats with the seat belts holding them. How can that be true if the plane was broken up at 33FL?

Some of MH17 victims were still strapped to their seats, even though the plane broke up at full cruising altitude.

Now, I wish there were more pictures of the crash site(s), something that would give a good overview. In the pictures so far I really can't see as much debris as I would expect an aircraft of A321 size to leave. If it's indeed scattered within a large area like some reports claim then it must have broken up in flight.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:46 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 71):
So incredibly heartbreaking to see many of these people posting notes about embarking on vacation, or worse yet photos taken hours or days prior to their departure home from that exact vacation.

That's the downside of today's advancement in technology that allows us to send pictures accross the gkobe in an instant.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 119):
However, Putin would have the responsibility to stick up for the people of Russia

He has responsibility to those cronies who keep him in power; personality cult is enough for the people of Russia.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 126):
Sadly political reality on the ground so to speak could lead to the public getting false information and affect the neutrality necessary to properly conduct the investigation.

You mean like the investigation of the MS990???
 
tu204
Posts: 2117
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:11 am

Quoting ZKCIF (Reply 143):
why don't we start with Ireland?
the registry is not RA but EI

Operator was Russian, thats a major factor.

From what I can gather, the investigation will be Egyptian/Russian with assistance from French and German specialists.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 144):
Now, I wish there were more pictures of the crash site(s), something that would give a good overview. In the pictures so far I really can't see as much debris as I would expect an aircraft of A321 size to leave. If it's indeed scattered within a large area like some reports claim then it must have broken up in flight.
http://ria.ru/world/20151101/1311751608.html (in Russian), body of a 3 y/o girl found 8km from the main crash site. If this is true it obvioisly points to an inflight breakup.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
EMAman
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:13 pm

RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:25 am

The captains wife has been saying that he had many concerns about the condition of the aircraft. Does anybody believe that this is a credible lead in the investigation?
 
User avatar
Heavierthanair
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 11:20 pm

RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:35 am

G'day

Would a bulkhead failure, a bomb blast or a missile hit not cause immediate cabin decompression which in turn would deploy the oxygen masks? I have not seen or read anything about that

Also, cell phones are to be switched off during flight. Sure some folks forget or don't care, but that's a minority. Following a decompression I doubt the first thing people think about is switching on their cellphones, so likely very few if any cellphones were in working condition after the crash

Just some thoughts

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 9310
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:47 am

That crash looks very strange. If one looks at the debris field and the damage to the bigger parts, I think it looks very much like a smaller bomb, probably in the rear cargo hold.
 
Viper911
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:29 pm

RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 2

Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:49 am

Quoting EMAman (Reply 146):
The captains wife has been saying that he had many concerns about the condition of the aircraft. Does anybody believe that this is a credible lead in the investigation?

Well, there been some complains about the mechanical condition of this aircraft in the last few days, this was posted over some media outlets yesterday. Plus there is a Belorussian air traffic controller who commented on avherald with this exact statement in the first hours after the crash and hours before the media was on it. Is it credible? I don't know, I'd rather wait until it will be discarded (or not) by the official investigation.

Viper911

[Edited 2015-11-01 02:51:46]
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