Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Quoting liquidair (Reply 121): Pihero, what's your take on the ADSB data from FR24? |
Quoting ALAfly (Reply 191): The tail section of the aircraft was found at coordinates N30.1527 E34.1858, 2230 meters/1.2nm south of the main wreckage and south of the last radar position. |
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 183): Many experts have said that ISIS doesn't have the training to operate sophisticated surface to air systems. I hate to say thks, but I call BS. When Iraq fell[...] |
Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 185): All this talk of missiles is great, but let's be real here. Why waste a perfectly good missile you can use against enemy fighters and bombers when a perfectly simple bomb does the same or even better of a job. |
Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 185): No. If you want to take down an airliner, the easy way is to find a target (assuming this is isis related then a Russian carrier) operating a flight from a relatively insecure airport where your man on the inside loads a bomb along with the luggage. It's a 1,000 dollar solution not a multi-million dollar solution. |
Quoting galleypower (Reply 187): On the dailmail site http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...jet-apart-flight-data-reveals.html |
Quoting tortugamon (Reply 141): I did a search in this thread for the word 'forbes' and nothing came up. This is an interesting article form Forbes suggesting that the executives and MetroJet should be barred from making comments about the investigation. Egypt does not have a good track record on transparency so we will see the result. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngogl...tims-deserve-proper-investigation/ tortugamon |
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 183): Many experts have said that ISIS doesn't have the training to operate sophisticated surface to air systems. I hate to say thks, but I call BS. When Iraq fell, the Iraqi Army took off their uniforms, and joined the civilian population. That did not take away their ability to fight, or use the skills they learned in the Iraq Army. Now, we have several countries that have similar situations, where these trained military members have joined terrorist organizations. On 9/10/01, had you asked many of us our thoughts of any organization having the ability to hijack 4 planes, use them as weapons, and kill thousands....... Most of us would say it wasn't possible, or very unlikely. |
Quoting aircatalonia (Reply 206): Is it possible that the airplane broke up in two stages? One that rendered the it uncontrollable and second stage, 30 seconds later, that broke the power lines feeding the ADS-B, thus preventing it from broadcasting? |
Quoting aircatalonia (Reply 206): Is it possible that the airplane broke up in two stages? One that rendered the it uncontrollable and second stage, 30 seconds later, that broke the power lines feeding the ADS-B, thus preventing it from broadcasting? |
Quoting IADCA (Reply 209): Possible, as that would explain the positive climb rate at the end of the record. The notes show that there were 4 data points at 6:13:00, one of which shows positive vertical speed and the rest of which show negative. |
Quoting Aesma (Reply 203): It's a bit strange when journalists ask people to be silenced... |
Quote: By already ruling out “technical fault of the plane or pilot error,” the airline violated one of the cardinal rules of accident investigation, which is to keep an open mind as all the facts are gathered and analyzed. |
Quoting aircatalonia (Reply 206): Is it possible that the airplane broke up in two stages? One that rendered the it uncontrollable and second stage, 30 seconds later, that broke the power lines feeding the ADS-B, thus preventing it from broadcasting? |
Quoting brewfangrb (Reply 194): Really? Are you sure you don't want to throw a few more superlatives in there? I love kids as much as anyone (I have 4 nieces under age 7 and a 3 year old nephew) but this is over the top. |
Quote: CAIRO (Reuters) - Egypt’s civil aviation ministry said on Tuesday there were no facts to substantiate assertions by Russian officials that the Russian airliner that crashed in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula on Saturday broke up in mid-air. |
Quoting diverted (Reply 217): "No proof that plane broke up mid-air" |
Quoting ranold76 (Reply 212): Very possible, but wouldn't one assume that the said first break up would not have only rendered the aircraft uncontrollable, but also inhibited the pilots from communicating also? Why would the ADS-B continue working, but no voice etc? Did the first said break up affect everyone on the aircraft, including the cockpit? Wouldn't you assume if it was failure of some kind, say in the aft area, that the pilots would have communicated to ATC etc? |
Quoting United787 (Reply 216): |
Quoting aircatalonia (Reply 206): Is it possible that the airplane broke up in two stages? One that rendered the it uncontrollable and second stage, 30 seconds later, that broke the power lines feeding the ADS-B, thus preventing it from broadcasting? |
Quoting pvjin (Reply 220): I don't really get the emphasis on children among those who died, aren't all human lives equally important and age of the victims pretty irrelevant? A Finnish newspaper even had a headline that named the youngest individual victim, as if that's somehow relevant to the bigger picture. |
Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 226): German news magazine "Focus" |
Quoting United787 (Reply 223): Of course, all lives are equally important. I am not a psychologist but I am sure there are pretty good reasons why the loss of a child seems to pull on the heart of people stronger. Look at the Syrian boy that washed up on the Turkish beach and that image has had on Europe and the world. |
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 227): How could this doctor already know by now...? The press coverage of this crash is very unprofessional... |
Quoting United787 (Reply 216): The number one reason we all speculate and discuss these crashes for weeks and months and sometimes years afterwards is because we want to learn the why so lives can be saved in the future. |
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 227): Yes, the very same FOCUS that was so clever to report on their webpage that rescue teams can hear survivors screaming out of the wreckage.... |
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 227): Yes, the very same FOCUS that was so clever to report on their webpage that rescue teams can hear survivors screaming out of the wreckage.... How could this doctor already know by now...? The press coverage of this crash is very unprofessional... |
Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 228): Focus is not better than Daily Mail. |
Quoting pvjin (Reply 230): standards of modern day mainstream "journalism" can't possibly go any lower. |
Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 233): So probably bogus. |
Quoting aircatalonia (Reply 206): Is it possible that the airplane broke up in two stages? One that rendered the it uncontrollable and second stage, 30 seconds later, that broke the power lines feeding the ADS-B, thus preventing it from broadcasting? |
Quoting IADCA (Reply 209): Possible, as that would explain the positive climb rate at the end of the record. The notes show that there were 4 data points at 6:13:00, one of which shows positive vertical speed and the rest of which show negative. That's a couple seconds after the event started and is probably a key moment (and the suspiciously round number makes me, well, a tad suspicious) |
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 213): How about this possible sequence of events: the rear pressure bulkhead failed (either due to incorrectly fixed tailstrike damage of because a bomb was located near it), and when it did, the blast was directed to the rear. I don't think this would've taken off the entire tail section with the tailfin (the part we've seen images of) but the force of the blast would've been directed at the area immediately behind the bulkhead. That's where the horizontal stabiliser is (it's one piece that runs directly through the tail). If that was blown off, it would've taken the tailcone with it. The rest of the tail would then have broken apart later, during the disintegration of the aircraft due to the aerodynamic forces. |
Quoting trent900 (Reply 219): The main probable cause for me at the moment is a bulkhead failure, but that still doesn't answer the question as to why the found fan module ( picture in reply 54) is covered in soot and burn marks. There must have been a fairly fierce fire during the breakup for it to get in this state. |
Quoting kevin (Reply 168): The news on a Russian website says a US satellite detected a heat signature at the moment of the crash (before the impact). Which adds sabotage to the list of my suspicions. How easy was it for ISIS to infiltrate or pay off a member of the ground staff at SSH (which I guess is not as heavily secured as CAI) and plant a bomb? I would guess it was not hard at all. A bit of a wild card but not at all impossible |
Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 234): yes and no. Here also is room for interpretation. "Explosion" as in use of explosives, or as in "explosive decompression", which is called so for good reason. It is so easy to jump to wrong conclusions from small pixels of informations. |
Quoting hivue (Reply 231): It's highly unlikely that anyone posting on these forums winds up as a result making material contributions to aviation safety and saving lives. And those few that might probably don't glean anything useful from a.net discussion/speculation that they can't get more reliably elsewhere. We post here because we're interested in aviation and we're trying to satisfy our curiosity. Lets make sure we keep our perspective. |
Quoting mats01776 (Reply 210): Of course the airspeed and altimeter reading can be off the mark unless the pitot tube/static port is oriented as intended against the airflow at all times. |
Quoting maartent (Reply 242): Maybe this is helpful: http://www.flightradar24.com/blog/me...oded/ |
Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 222): Quoting Pihero (Reply 201): What is still missing is the tailplane / elevator and the pressure bulkhead. Is the bulkhead not still attached to the rear fuselage? |
Quoting Lowbank (Reply 241): that nose cone has been sudject to high temperatures for an amount of time for it to blister. thats been coming from in front of of the engine. |
Quoting slvrblt (Reply 236): I'm still more of the opinion it was a suicide bomber; it's the favored method of terror organizations. I'm sure it wasn't that hard for ISIS to get someone to substitute as a suicide bomber as a tourist and get on the flight. |
Quoting IADCA (Reply 239): That's an interesting point. I'd imagine Airbus has some idea what the readouts would look like in certain failure modes (flat spin, extreme pitch and yaw oscillations, etc). |
Quoting caoimhin (Reply 240): As to the RPB failure theory, what of the apparent fact that the tail section seems to have separated forward of the bulkhead? It looks like a relatively clean break in some sections. If it did rupture, wouldn't you expect the break to be aft of the bulkhead? |
Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 192): From latest reports, CVR/FDR stopped recording right after some weird sounds are heard. ADS-B continued to transmit for ~22 secs after problem begins. Black boxes are located in the tail. Therefore, separation of the tail at the start seems very likely. Breakup of the aircraft, and hence the cessation of the ADS-B signal, happens a while later, possibly due to aerodynamic loads that the aircraft wasn't designed to handle. The fireball on breakup could've been caused by sparks from exposed wiring or metal/metal contact as the aircraft disintegrates and the fuel is released. |
Quoting dc863 (Reply 193): If you lose the entire tail suddenly during cruise the plane is likely to pitch up or down suddenly. At that point the outer portions of the wings are going to snap off along with the engines. Yet when you look at the main crash site, the wings are intact and the engines deposited not far away. |
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 213): How about this possible sequence of events: the rear pressure bulkhead failed (either due to incorrectly fixed tailstrike damage of because a bomb was located near it), and when it did, the blast was directed to the rear. I don't think this would've taken off the entire tail section with the tailfin (the part we've seen images of) but the force of the blast would've been directed at the area immediately behind the bulkhead. That's where the horizontal stabiliser is (it's one piece that runs directly through the tail). If that was blown off, it would've taken the tailcone with it. The rest of the tail would then have broken apart later, during the disintegration of the aircraft due to the aerodynamic forces. |