LH cabin attendants are threatening to go on strike for one full week beginning Friday, November 6. Cabin crew union "UFO" has issued an ultimatum to LH for Thursday to respond to their demands.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/1...strike-cabin-idUKKCN0SR1F720151102

I'm supposed to be flying through Germany on the 6th/7th - ain't life grand. This would put a real kink in my plans.

And I was supposed to be on my way to Dubai on the 7th.. Hope they rebook on other airlines (hopefully also non-Star Alliance carriers!) as I definetely cannot reschedule that trip.

Time will be running out tomorrow on the ultimatum set by LH-cabin crew union „UFO“ in the almost two-year long labor conflict with Lufthansa. Today, LH-management once more asked for a new round of talks, without substantially improving their offer to the union. The union demands an improved offer for new talks.

So a potential week-long strike at Europe´s largest airline beginning this Friday becomes more likely by the hour. According to Lufthansa, many customers are already cancelling their bookings for next week due to the threat of strike action.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/1...hansa-unions-idUKKCN0ST1FC20151104

I am booked on a LH flight on Sunday, November 8, but thank God just a domestic flight from HAJ to FRA, from where I will go on travelling with Thai. So in the worst case I take the high speed train to FRA.

Man, I was getting worried...it was going on almost two months since the last LH strike...
AF, time to announce your next one...

This is fast becoming a sport...we should start a pool.

Looks like to begin noon'ish on Friday. Exact details to be released Friday AM.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0SU0QT20151105#1mem5LCQMqgRHMZX.97

Advisory posted by LH:


Against the background of the announced strike by the Independent Flight Attendant’s Organization (UFO) on Lufthansa flights from Friday 6th of November until Friday 13th of November 2015, Lufthansa is trying to keep the effect of the strike on its customers as low as possible.

Since the negotiations with UFO have failed despite the revised offer, Lufthansa passengers are now offered changes free of charge in subsequent frames to their tickets, until the extent of the strike is clear.

Passengers booked on a flight which has to be canceled due to strike actions, always have the opportunity to rebook or cancel their flight free of charge.

Lufthansa passengers, who provided Lufthansa with their mobile phone number in their customer profile or under "My bookings" on Lufthansa.com, will be informed about any cancellations via SMS.

If LH management is unable do get a deal with the so far very peaceful and willing to compromise UFO
it is even harder to imagine how they should be able to reach a deal with Verdi not even talking about the VC!
I fear this management is about to destroy this once so great company!

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 5): Man, I was getting worried...it was going on almost two months since the last LH strike... AF, time to announce your next one...

AF and LH are having some real labor difficulties. AF is in trouble and I wonder if there comes a time when these actions start to affect the viability of LH.

I think both sides have a reasonable argument. The Unions might be asking for a bit too much but they want to protect their members and secure what they perceive as a fair wage. The problem is, LH itself (not subsidiaries) does most of its flying long-haul where it has to complete with non-union airlines (ME3) or other Euro ULCCs with much lower cost structures. It is not hard to see why LH management does not think they can be competitive if they are paying their crews significantly more than their competitors.

In my opinion, the German government needs to participate in these talks. As long as the unions believe, probably rightly, that LH will never be allowed to fail by the German government, the bargaining positions are unequal. The same issue is likely at work for AF concerning union belief in a government bailout.

Does someone have access to LH flight attendant pay rates?

I have the average US flight attendant at $38k per year +. I don't have a great source but found something that indicated LH pays $50k on average. Apparently they get a pension as well which isn't that common anymore.

tortugamon

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 10): I don't have a great source but found something that indicated LH pays $50k on average.

There are in fact LH cabin staff who make the equivalent of $50k ore even more... These are senior pursers with at least 30 years of seniority and on a very old full time contract! But if that source gives that as the average LH flight attendant pay then it is completely false information and exaggerating by far!

LH mainline currently employs close to 19.000 cabin crew (Flight Attendants and Pursers) on several different contracts depending on date of hire, model chosen and German based or regional etc. ...

Keep in mind that compared to the US, Canada and certain European countries Germany is a low wage country. The Average Joe in Germany doesn't nearly make as much per year as the Average Joe in the US!

Also take into account that LH is very restricted on bidding, flight hours and has a lot more limitations than US carriers. FA's on US carriers have unlimited flight hours (at least on DL which is non-union and UA with AFA contract went unlimited a while ago, before that they were at 120 hours I think. I'm not sure about AA's contract?)! This is something LH FA's can only dream about! You can't just pick up or drop as many trips as you like as US FA's can. A senior FA in the US can make up to 100k by flying high time, bidding on purser, language or galley positions. Picking up as many trips as you like, as long as you stay within the FAA hour and days off limit! That's simply not possible at LH, even if you'd want to they wouldn't let you fly that many hours.

Therefore I'd put the average LH pays significantly lower than the average US pay. There might be a few senior gals and guys who make up to 60k, but there are a lot more who make between 25 and 27k! So I'd say $33 - 34k per year might be the average LH FA pay! That would be the best bet!

But that is not that bad per German standards. You can definitely afford a living in Germany on $34k per year! 25k well I don't know about that... you might be very tight at 25k!

However this labor dispute between UFO and LH and therefore this strike isn't only about pay! It's mostly about pensions, future contracts and outsourcing to low-cost subsidiaries in Germany and within the EU to operators where FA's might earn as little as $22k!!!!!!!!

Best regards
L1011Lover

Yeah on the low end the two worlds are not far apart, it's the top end where U.S. F/As will blow the LH F/As out of the water. Perhaps a key reason why you won't see too many LH F/As north of 65.

But before complaining about this strike, let's remember it's about preventing outsourcing people who are deemed to cost too much at €35k, the aforementioned living wage and are supposed to be replaced with people who'll make €25k, the aforementioned "I don't know about that" level. LH F/As will never make $100k like some U.S. F/As do, in fact they'll be very senior by the time they make $50k.

In the U.S. there'd be a revolt if UA were to come up with a cheap subcarrier throughout regions 1 and 2 that cuts pay by 40% along with lower increases. Everyone in the U.S. who enters the industry as an F/A is banking on becoming vested after a couple years, making north of 50k after that initial though period, holding a line and moving up. LH F/As have close to zero incentive to stay past 65/67, no super seniors in Germany since they can't get that kind of money ever.

The €35k level is low as it is, to try to bring it to €25k is just plain shameful for a developed country, and I say that from a Star Gold customer perspective. I don't usually condone strikes, but this long standing effort to fight that absolutely ridiculous LH effort has my full support. I don't care if my next flight gets delayed or cancelled in that case. Gotta take a stand at some point. When if not now?

I do sympathize with the LH FA's on this one...but the timing couldn't be worse after what their pilots have dragged the airline through the past 18 months with their repeated strike actions. In the court of public opinion, most people won't care that the FA's truly deserve to make more $$, they just see the "LH on strike again" and get instantly mad.

Quoting EC99 (Reply 9): In my opinion, the German government needs to participate in these talks. As long as the unions believe, probably rightly, that LH will never be allowed to fail by the German government, the bargaining positions are unequal. The same issue

We have tarrif autonomy in Germany, the German government does not get involved in Labor disputes. LH wants to get into arbitation, that would be the best way.

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 11): However this labor dispute between UFO and LH and therefore this strike isn't only about pay! It's mostly about pensions, future contracts and outsourcing to low-cost subsidiaries in Germany and within the EU to operators where FA's

Pay is the least issue, they would have settled that a Long time ago. Company pension and bridging the time between retirement from LH and the start of government funded Pension are thew 2 issues of Dispute. LH is realistic, VC and UFO are not. They do not understand that in times of Zero interest Pension funds have to reduce payments as they do not achieve the income to pay full Company poensions. LH has to subsidize that from current revenues and that is a NO GO. All other Dax companies have found a way, only LH employees pretend not to udnerstand a simple fact.

The other Thing is the subsidiaries , mainly Eurowings. Here, UFO like VC are not allowed to strike. That is a Management decision signed by the supervisory board in whcih employees have a total of 10 seats out of 20, the FAs should have 2 seats. The strategy has been confirmed by the board and that's it. Strikes against Company strategies are illegal.

Another strike to force people on the ME3.

Excellent. Only just started re-booking people on LH, and I'm rewarded with my first res in the middle of a strike date.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 5): Man, I was getting worried...it was going on almost two months since the last LH strike... AF, time to announce your next one... This is fast becoming a sport...we should start a pool.

Count me in.

Quoting seahawk (Reply 15): Another strike to force people on the ME3.

Or any other carrier. Not good for either LH or their employees.

I was going to transfer in FRA from SQ to LH tomorrow for my connecting flight, but rebooked myself to connect with SAS through CPH instead just to safeguard my trip.
Even if the strike wouldnt affect me tomorrow, LH has already lost my money.

Yep, my flight out of nice was delayed and lh put me on BA through London rather than risk a connection through frankfurt. Typical good service but if had been a few hours later I'd have missed my boy's ball game.

I stopped using AF partially due to strikes a few years ago.

Quoting FRAEDDF (Reply 3): So a potential week-long strike at Europe´s largest airline

Europe's largest airline? Easyjet and Ryanair are both larger than LH, and this thread might give one of the reasons for that, too!

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 17): Or any other carrier. Not good for either LH or their employees.

As long as it is not AF.

For me the Me3 and FR / U2 are becoming the preferred options.

Quoting workhorse (Reply 19): Europe's largest airline? Easyjet and Ryanair are both larger than LH, and this thread might give one of the reasons for that, too!

Before the US Mergers the LH Group was the largest in the world by turnover. Ryanair carries maybe more paassengers than the Lh Group but in all other categories they are way smalller.

Just to give you an idea what the offer by LH is, at least part of it. Quote from "WELT" current issue.

FA#s can retire with 55, until they reach mandatory state retirement Age 65. LH wants the FAx to take a deduction of 12,5%. If someone wants to work till reaching 65 yoa they can capitalize the bridging Pension. For a cabin chief that would amount to € 380.000 in lumpsum payment and for a FA € 284.000. On top of their regular salary of course.

Hardly anyone in Germany outside large corporations can Count on such Jackpots.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21): Ryanair carries maybe more paassengers than the Lh Group

They do. In 2014,

- Ryanair has flown 86,370,000 passengers
- Easyjet has flown 62,309,000 passengers
- Lufthansa group has flown 59,850,000 passengers

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 21): but in all other categories they are way smalller.

Of course, they are bigger in passenger-kilometers (because they fly longhaul) and by revenue (because they have all these business class passengers who don't care about the price). But if we compare only the European activity of LH versus U2 and FR, the difference in favor of the latter two will be even bigger.



[Edited 2015-11-06 04:14:30]

Quoting workhorse (Reply 22): Ryanair has carried 86,370 passengers - Easyjet has flown 62,309 passengers - Lufthansa group has flown 59,850 passengers

I think you need a few more 000's ....

Quoting offloaded (Reply 23): I think you need a few more 000's ....

Obviously.  

Thanks, fixed.  

Quoting workhorse (Reply 22): - Lufthansa group has flown 59,850,000 passengers

Lufthansa Group 2014: 105,988,000 passengers.

http://investor-relations.lufthansag...ts/annual-reports/LH-AR-2014-e.pdf

Quoting ua900 (Reply 12): The €35k level is low as it is, to try to bring it to €25k is just plain shameful for a developed country, and I say that from a Star Gold customer perspective. I don't usually condone strikes, but this long standing effort to fight that absolutely ridiculous LH effort has my full support. I don't care if my next flight gets delayed or cancelled in that case. Gotta take a stand at some point. When if not now?

So how exactly is LH going to compete with carriers paying a maximum of €15k annually to their FAs.

Airlines like LH - that employ many 1000s of FA - are going to have a serious competitive disadvantage.

And is not just salary costs, it is all those other benefits as well.

Quoting FRAEDDF (Reply 25): Lufthansa Group 2014: 105,988,000 passengers. http://investor-relations.lufthansag...e.pdf

This is strange:

IATA says 59,850,000 :

http://www.iata.org/publications/pages/wats-passenger-carried.aspx

Even if IATA figures do not include LX and AT, that would mean that they carried almost as much as LH, which is hard to beleive.

[Edited 2015-11-06 05:20:10]

http://www.lufthansagroup.com/en/pre...ive/2014/july/09/article/3075.html

Well it looks like the LH group carried 50.000.000 in the first HALF year of 2014!

Quoting workhorse (Reply 27): This is strange:

LH Group, the emphasiz is on Group, indeed carried 106 Mio passengers, carried freight which Fr doesn't do at all, has MRO and Catering and pays their People well.

All of which FR doesn't do. LH is, by turnover, in the top 3 world wide.

.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 26): So how exactly is LH going to compete with carriers paying a maximum of €15k annually to their FAs.

Not possible, even at EUW flight attendants and pilots will earn more than at FR, besides that zeo hour contracts are impossible in Germany and Austria.

Unlike Ryanair, Lufthansa doesn't skirt mandatory employer contributions to welfare programs with a scheme of 'free lance' employment.
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...lot-work-status-extended-1.2418995

Bottom line, Lufthansa is and always been a responsible employer, but has to operate competitively, which means paying market rate. Current 'legacy' LH pay scales & benefits simply no longer are. I sympathize with UFO & VC, nobody wants to cut back, but it's going to happen, unfortunately on the back of its customers.

Quoting L1011Lover (Reply 11): There are in fact LH cabin staff who make

Thank you for the very thorough response. Very informative.

It does indeed sound like this is more about the pension than the pay and the pension does sound nice. I hope this works out so everyone can get back to work.

tortugamon

Quoting workhorse (Reply 27): This is strange: IATA says 59,850,000 : http://www.iata.org/publications/pages/wats-passenger-carried.aspx Even if IATA figures do not include EW: Swiss International Airlines (Switzerland)">LX and AT, that would mean that they carried almost as much as LH, which is hard to beleive.

I don´t understand the confusion, the numbers in question are all in their annual report for 2014:

Lufthansa Passenger Airlines (LH/CL/4U/EW/EN): 77,547,000 passengers
Swiss: 17,270,000 passengers
Austrian: 11,171,000 passengers

Lufthansa Group (TOTAL): 105,988,000 passengers


But back to topic. The current travel advisory posted by LH:

"The Independent Flight Attendant’s Organization (UFO) has announced strike action for all Lufthansa flights from/ to Frankfurt and Dusseldorf on Friday, 6.11.2015 between 14.00 and 23.00 and Saturday, 7.11.2015 between 6.00 and 23.00 for all flights from/to Dusseldorf and for all flights operated with A319, A320, A321 and B737 from/to Frankfurt.

All intercontinental flights on 7.11.2015 will operate as scheduled.

Flights to and from Munich are not affected by the strike.

Flights operated by Lufthansa CityLine, Germanwings, Eurowings, Air Dolomiti, Austrian Airlines, SWISS and Brussels Airlines are not affected by potential strike actions and will therefore run as planned.

Lufthansa will do its utmost to keep the effects of a strike to a minimum and to inform passengers as soon as possible. For that reason, Lufthansa requests all passengers early on to stay up-to-date by checking the flight status on LH.com.

A total of almost ten per cent of all flights of the Lufthansa Group have to be cancelled due to the union’s strike today. Out of a total of 3,000 planned connections, 290 flights are cancelled, including 15 intercontinental flights to and from Frankfurt and Dusseldorf."

Lufthansa must have some master plan. I already saw one 748i divert into MUC earlier. Now another one and an A380 are also inbound and it is certainly not a weather problem in FRA. Maybe getting a few larger aircraft in MUC to compensate for the cancelled flights from FRA .


Ok, scrap that idea. I see D-ABYU. Is just about to depart MUC now, so no idea what's going on. It has been in for over two hours though.

[Edited 2015-11-06 09:18:01]

Quoting LTU330 (Reply 33): Lufthansa must have some master plan. I already saw one 748i divert into MUC earlier. Now another one and an A380 are also inbound and it is certainly not a weather problem in FRA. Maybe getting a few larger aircraft in MUC to compensate for the cancelled flights from FRA .

You are right, so far there are 3 long-haul flights to FRA making stops at MUC:

LH729 ex PVG - 380 D-AIMH // LH721 ex PEK - 748 D-ABYU // LH713 ex ICN - 748 D-ABYH

I would assume, they are making some pax connect through MUC instead of FRA, since flights to and from MUC are not affected by the strike so far. Very flexible, seems like LH is well prepared for this strike.

Looking at Flightradar24 over the past couple of hours it appears that most of the North American destinations seems to have got away.

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 35):

They were not striking on the 8th. Today.... well, it doesn't look good.

Quoting offloaded (Reply 36): They were not striking on the 8th. Today.... well, it doesn't look good.

Today was largely a loss for long-haul flights and tomorrow is shaping up to be similarly bad.

http://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/Travel-information

I can only imagine how much these strikes cost per day between lost revenue and having to book passengers on other carriers.

According to media LH precanceled 929 flights on Monday covering DUS/FRA/MUC bases.

Apparently this is the "biggest strike in the company's history" per media. Not sure how they measure that?

LH trying to encourage flight attendants back to work by offering one-time payment of 3,000 Euros for them to immediately halt a strike.

Company also inviting the UFO union to hold talks on Tuesday.

Lufthansa Offers Flight Attendants Bonus Payment to Stop Strike
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...talks-amid-excessive-strike-action

=

[Edited 2015-11-09 11:08:14]

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 39): LH trying to encourage flight attendants back to work by offering one-time payment of 3,000 Euros for them to immediately halt a strike. Company also inviting the UFO union to hold talks on Tuesday. Lufthansa Offers Flight Attendants Bonus Payment to Stop Strike http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...talks-amid-excessive-strike-action =

It will be interesting to see if they will accept the offer. It will only bring a temporary halt to the disruption as it doesn't sound like it will address the underlying problems.

Article today in FAZ, in German only, showing the Basic salary with add ons . According to that the starting salary for a LH FA is € 2650 per month and the end salary for a cabin chief /Purser/rette is € 7150,00 which is not too bad considering what is earned in Germany

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaf...-um-ihre-privilegien-13902899.html

I don't know how many salaries LH personell gets but usually it is 13 to 13 1/2 per year, whoch adds on to the average.

UFO has made it clear that the real income is a bout 1350 Euro per months. This is hardly above the social security level.

The figures in the FAZ articloe are real. New contracts for FAs with EUW may have that Kind of a base salary, but the base salary is what it says, . There are items that add-on and a t the end of the day even a base salary with a low cost affiliate of LH is better than a base salary with FR.

The crucial item however is the transoition pay between early retirement at 55 and official Pension Age of 65.

LH is the last large corporation in Germany that has not yet managed to Switch the interest risk from the Company to the owner of the policy. Even life insuers have transferred that risak to their customers for the simple reason that they would go broke otherwise.LH has lost a good ching of their capital in the past 2 or 3 years. If the politics of Zero interests continues, Lh will have their base capital eaten up by deferrals build up to subsidize the Transition pensions. That cannot go on and it is a unique matter that only employees in the airloine Business have that Kind of power to maintain a Pension scheme that is no longer sustainable by striking against the customers.
LH, at least the well paid Jobs in LH will vanish if they carry on .

Quoting seahawk (Reply 42):

And still 3x the minimum wage here in Portugal.

It's tough to compete when your competitors can take their pick of who they hire from any of the EU's 28 Member States.

....and while EK is running ads in German daily newspapers Advertising reliable air services. Which is cynical considering that strikes are forbidden in the ME and strikers would be deported immediateley.

[Edited 2015-11-10 04:02:39]

Just in the news. A court stopped the strike with immediate effect.

Seems the judge is closer to reality than the union leaders.

Quoting fraT (Reply 46):

A link pls.
A lawfull strike has been overturned?

That court ruling is valid only for DUS and only for today. In other word, it is useless to have any effect on flights. may be a MUC or a FRA flight can operate but that's it.

UFO has until 7 pm to agree to Arbitration, after 7 pm LH has to cancel all flights for tomorrow due to operational reasons.

That DUS ruling should give UFO some incentive to get their act together and not further harm the Company, LH will sue them if they don't agree to Arbitration.

It should motivate UFO to keep fighting and follow the steps the pilots have taken and take the case to the Bundesverfassungsgericht.