Amiga500
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:29 am

Quoting planemaker (Reply 95):
If at all true, then it should be very easy for you to at least list some of the reasons you claim why business people would NOT travel to Toronto if PD did not exist.

Basically because it is more difficult for them to do so - in terms of time and money... and time = money. So really Money^2.


Now, it'll not be a case of multi-nationals all of a sudden upping sticks and leaving Toronto, but it'd be a case of them not making marginal calls that would have went in favour of Toronto and small businesses with a few interests possibly cutting right back.
 
planemaker
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:08 pm

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 100):
Basically because it is more difficult for them to do so - in terms of time and money... and time = money.

You said "reasons" - plural, and instead of listing reasons you are only able to repeat your same single reason that does not apply specifically to PD and the Island Airport. The majority of their flights are on the Eastern Triangle and a business person can fly to Montreal on Air Canada from the Island Airport anyway. And depending upon city and schedule it is actually more inconvenient to fly PD, and depending on the flight, even more expensive.

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 100):
Now, it'll not be a case of multi-nationals all of a sudden upping sticks and leaving Toronto, but it'd be a case of them not making marginal calls that would have went in favour of Toronto and small businesses with a few interests possibly cutting right back.

What marginal calls? In what sectors? From what cities? Earlier you said "real world"... and none of your post applies in the "real world" of PD and the Island Airport.

And more important to this discussion, which you ignored, is what is the "real world" economic impact.

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 99):
Deluce's comment about being the one company who could really strengthen BBD is a bit far fetched;

Yes, even if jets are eventually approved at the Island Airport, the earliest would be 2019. So one could read with incredulity Deluce's statement that "that will probably go further towards strengthening a company like Bombardier than any other single event."
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
diverted
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:56 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 101):
You said "reasons" - plural, and instead of listing reasons you are only able to repeat your same single reason that does not apply specifically to PD and the Island Airport. The majority of their flights are on the Eastern Triangle and a business person can fly to Montreal on Air Canada from the Island Airport anyway. And depending upon city and schedule it is actually more inconvenient to fly PD, and depending on the flight, even more expensive.

Is PD beneficial for people who need to get downtown for a meeting and head back to say YOW or YUL afterwards? Absolutely. The UPE train is a joke, the 401 is a disaster, and well, typical Toronto issues. All bypassed by flying to and from YTZ. However, I agree with planemaker here. If PD didn't exist, the majority of these pax would still fly, to YYZ. Has PD stimulated the market by introducing lower fares? Yes. In a meaningful way? Who's to say. Clearly they've attracted a fairly loyal clientele, and they seem to be doing well. But let's not kid ourselves and think that those pax wouldn't be travelling if PD didn't exist. Some would probably choose driving or taking the train over flying, sure. But time sensitive travellers are still going to be flying. From anecdotal evidence, both PD and AC seem to do very well on the triangle. Look at the morning or afternoon flights. They're jammed from 0715-1100, and 1500-1930 or so. If anything it's WS that's really struggling in the triangle; the majority of their pax to YYZ seem to be connecting onwards to destinations served nonstop from YOW (IE, fairly low yield)

Quoting longhauler (Reply 97):
And, as for whether Porter would generate additional tourist business if they had jet aircraft, that's a tough one to quatify. To think that, one would have to assume people are sitting at home looking for places to fly, and think ... "Gee, I can fly on a jet to downtown Toronto, let's go there". (Because flying into YYZ, taking a train, bus or automobile or even flying in a Q400 would be out of the question).

But I guess this discussion really come's down to the viability of two Toronto/Canada "darlings". Porter Airlines and would they survive without jet aircraft? ... and Bombardier with the CSeries and would they survive without the Porter order?

I am guessing yes to both. If Porter is viable/profitable now, then they will still be here whether they get jet aircraft or not. And the Bombardier CSeries? I don't think the Porter order neither guarantees nor dooms its survival.

If PD can't expand YTZ, the ops there will probably stay more or less the same as now. They've been around nearly 10 years now, I can't see them packing it in because the runway expansion didn't get approved. They'll grow YUL/YOW or YHZ and maybe start marching west. Deluce has hinted before that "WS should keep their eyes on their own backyard" rather than continuing to focus on entering eastern markets. Is he full of hot air? Who knows. I've long thought a YQT-YWG tag on would be a good start, similar to how they operate to YHZ and then tag on to YYT.

About your comment about people "looking for places to fly" it does happen, surprisingly. I've often seen people decided last minute to go down for a Jays or Raptors game (who's going to fly in to watch the Laughs...I say that as a fan) and then walk back to the airport and head home, or grab a hotel and get on a morning flight. Would they be as inclined to do so having to go through YYZ? Probably not. Of course, these aren't going to be a significant portion of pax, but they do exist.

In terms of the competition from Encore, I honestly don't think PD is all that worried. Encore's Q400s are 78 seat cattlecars. PD, even since adding an extra row to bring them to 74 pax, is significantly more comfortable. Sad that QK is going to a 78 seat config on their birds too. I've had people complain left right and centre that they hate the Encore, and in the same sentence rave about how they love PD. Honestly, I don't know if they realize it's the same aircraft type.

Anyways, point being, I think the whole jets thing is and was a longshot. Based on Deluce's history, if he gets the approvals, I fully expect him to take delivery. But at the same time, he's VERY good at using politicking for his own gain..remember how Miller campaigned on killing the bridge, trying to kill PD in it's infancy. What happened? Deluce and crew got a nice cheque $20M as compensation. And they got a tunnel built, which ends up being better for them anyways (Paid for by AIF)

He's shrewd, and perhaps a bit optimistic, but he's not stupid
 
cloudboy
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:22 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 97):
I have to agree with planemaker here. I can't imagine any substantial business chosing not to deal in Toronto, simply because the runways at the city airport were not extended ... and refused to fly in a Q400!

It's not that they will choose not to locate in Toronto because of the airline itself. It is because they will choose not to locate in Toronto because, compared to other cities, it is too hard, long, and expensive to get to the airport from downtown. It is why airlines can charge a premium at LGA, because of the difficulties and cost (which is no where as high as YYZ) to get to JFK.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
planemaker
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 102):
If PD didn't exist, the majority of these pax would still fly, to YYZ.

Of course, Encore would make a bee-line for the Island Airport if PD were to experience difficulties. Before the jets idea and after the two IPO pull backs, there was speculation that one of exit strategies for PD investors was to sell to Westjet.

Quoting diverted (Reply 102):
From anecdotal evidence, both PD and AC seem to do very well on the triangle. Look at the morning or afternoon flights.

There's a lot of capacity on the triangle. AC alone has 76 weekday flights to YUL.

Quoting diverted (Reply 102):
They've been around nearly 10 years now, I can't see them packing it in because the runway expansion didn't get approved.

The issue isn't them packing it in but how are the investors going to get out.

Quoting diverted (Reply 102):
I've long thought a YQT-YWG tag on would be a good start

BTW, Encore has already started flying that route.

Quoting diverted (Reply 102):
In terms of the competition from Encore, I honestly don't think PD is all that worried. Encore's Q400s are 78 seat cattlecars.

But the additional capacity puts pressure on yields.

Quoting diverted (Reply 102):
Anyways, point being, I think the whole jets thing is and was a longshot.
Quoting diverted (Reply 102):
he's VERY good at using politicking for his own gain
Quoting diverted (Reply 102):
He's shrewd, and perhaps a bit optimistic

I don't think that originally it was a long shot because he had the political "stars" fairly well lined up to succeed, but now he's running into political headwinds.

He had Ford and TorontoPorts (stacked with Conservative appointees) and the Harper Government (Transport) all lined up in his camp versus mainly a pesky Vaughn politically. Now, Ford and Harper are out of office and Trudeau will be stacking TorontoPorts with his Liberal appointees. So the timing of both civic and federal elections turned negative for Deluce.

One more timing issue that may prove to be a deal breaker is that since the jets proposal was launched in 2013, the runway standards have changed from the 2005 4th edition of TP312 to the 5th edition this September 2015. It will be even more difficult to get the runway extensions approved if edition 5 is mandated.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 103):
It's not that they will choose not to locate in Toronto because of the airline itself. It is because they will choose not to locate in Toronto because, compared to other cities, it is too hard, long, and expensive to get to the airport from downtown. It is why airlines can charge a premium at LGA, because of the difficulties and cost (which is no where as high as YYZ) to get to JFK.

Seriously??? It is too hard, long and expensive to get to Pearson from downtown? In fact, flying PD to Boston or New York can take longer as there is no pre-clearance out of the Island. And it is actually a longer drive to get to Wall Street from JFK than it is to get to Bay Street from YYZ.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
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longhauler
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:16 pm

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 103):
It's not that they will choose not to locate in Toronto because of the airline itself. It is because they will choose not to locate in Toronto because, compared to other cities, it is too hard, long, and expensive to get to the airport from downtown. It is why airlines can charge a premium at LGA, because of the difficulties and cost (which is no where as high as YYZ) to get to JFK.

Yes, but they already can fly to YTZ ... on a Q400. The question everyone seems to me missing, is business likely to avoid Toronto because they have to fly to YTZ on a prop instead of a jet? And, no, that is not likely.

Quoting diverted (Reply 102):
Is PD beneficial for people who need to get downtown for a meeting and head back to say YOW or YUL afterwards? Absolutely. The UPE train is a joke, the 401 is a disaster, and well, typical Toronto issues.

That is somewhat true, but we are not discussing the merits of PD, we are discussing the decision not to allow jet transport aircraft into YTZ. The routes you cite, YTZ-YOW/YUL are still best served by another Bombardier product ... the Q400.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Amiga500
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:36 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 101):
You said "reasons" - plural, and instead of listing reasons you are only able to repeat your same single reason that does not apply specifically to PD and the Island Airport.

Time is a reason.
Cost is a reason.
That s 2 reasons. Plural.


Besides, there are other reasons; like a smaller airport focussing on serving business folk offering slightly different services relative to a mass-market hub.
- quicker check-in
- better business connections in waiting areas
- quicker customs

Quote:
What marginal calls? In what sectors? From what cities? Earlier you said "real world"... and none of your post applies in the "real world" of PD and the Island Airport.

Right, sure I'll stop working, take months out and go do a full impact study. :rolleyes:


It all applies to PD and the Island - indeed you'd have to be extremely stupid not to be able to understand why it does...

Furthemore, by limiting the Island to Q400s, Toronto is closing itself off to additional business opportunities.
 
diverted
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:50 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 104):
Of course, Encore would make a bee-line for the Island Airport if PD were to experience difficulties. Before the jets idea and after the two IPO pull backs, there was speculation that one of exit strategies for PD investors was to sell to Westjet.

Look at WS's original Q400 order...seems like they left the option open for them to acquire ~25 Q400's from somewhere other than Downsview  

The rumour is that tires were kicked...

Quoting planemaker (Reply 104):
The issue isn't them packing it in but how are the investors going to get out.

Definitely. As PD's privately held, it's hard for us to speculate, but obviously they're looking to maximize ROI.
Quoting longhauler (Reply 105):
That is somewhat true, but we are not discussing the merits of PD, we are discussing the decision not to allow jet transport aircraft into YTZ. The routes you cite, YTZ-YOW/YUL are still best served by another Bombardier product ... the Q400.

Absolutely; But the same applies regardless of the type of aircraft and where they're coming from. If you have meetings downtown, regardless of whether you're flying in from YOW or YVR, the convenience is still a factor.



In that article about PD being debt free, you can get the idea that Bob is starting to play the "help Bombardier" card with his comments on how orders are better than bailouts. I'd expect this rhetoric to get a lot stronger in coming weeks and months.
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:04 pm

So apparently PD is debt free.. so that means they really dont need saving with or with out jets

#JETS4YTZ


http://business.financialpost.com/ne...pansion-as-it-enters-debt-free-era
 
diverted
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 108):
So apparently PD is debt free.. so that means they really dont need saving with or with out jets

Who said they needed saving?
 
YXXMIKE
Posts: 171
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:13 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 107):
In that article about PD being debt free, you can get the idea that Bob is starting to play the "help Bombardier" card with his comments on how orders are better than bailouts. I'd expect this rhetoric to get a lot stronger in coming weeks and months.

You can't take away Bob's ability to seize the moment here. He's just seen two quick changes of government in the past 12 months at the civic and federal level where he's lost some good elected support for the airport. He's now seizing BBD's cash flow issues and turning them around on the government; it's no wonder that Marc Garneau isn't making any serious statements yet; they both know there is so much to play at politically and no matter which choice is made it's now a political hot potato and the electorate in Toronto and Quebec are now impacted...and you can't say that Quebec isn't an important place for votes!
 
Amiga500
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:16 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 105):

Yes, but they already can fly to YTZ on a prop instead of a jet? And, no, that is not likely.

Business within the catchment of the Q400? No, not likely.


Business outside the catchment of the Q400 but within range of CS100...?

A few notable population centres being
Miami (technically within range of Q400, but too long trip time)
Houston
Dallas
Los Angeles
Las Vegas
Seattle
Vancouver
Mexico City
Bogata
Dublin*
London*

*right on the range limit - wouldn't be feasible without light payload and possibly an ACT or two. Service would be something like Odyssey airlines are proposing from London City.

[Edited 2015-11-12 10:17:03]
 
planemaker
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:22 am

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 106):
Time is a reason.
Cost is a reason.
That s 2 reasons. Plural.

First of all, you already gave time and cost and they are not valid for PD (as others have also indicated).

No business person is NOT going to fly to Toronto for the marginal differences.

And in fact, depending upon route and flight, total travel time on PD can even take longer, the fare can be more expensive and the schedule inconvenient.

Moreover, because of slot limitations, PD has chosen to concentrate on the Eastern Triangle… and not only is there AC with 15 daily flights from the Island airport to Montreal, for example, but with also another 36 daily flights from YYZ along with 10 WS flights and a TS flight which is cheapest of all.

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 106):

Besides, there are other reasons; like a smaller airport focussing on serving business folk offering slightly different services relative to a mass-market hub.
- quicker check-in
- better business connections in waiting areas
- quicker customs

Again, not true.

In today’s travel world, check-in is not only a non-issue but an anachronism for business people with iPhones. And if you need to physically “check-in”, Rapidair has dedicated “check-in” for the Eastern Triangle with fast track security clearance and conveniently located gates.

And “better business connections in waiting areas”…    With PD the non-business hoi poloi get to hang out with the business people.

And "quicker customs"… oh, that is really going to stop a business person from travelling to Toronto. Especially since PD does not have US pre-clearance and non-US customers get to line up with all the overseas arrivals at BOS and EWR.

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 106):
Right, sure I'll stop working, take months out and go do a full impact study.

As others have also posted, no business person is NOT going to NOT fly to Toronto if PD didn't exist. This is just a basic reality that requires no months of study.

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 106):
It all applies to PD and the Island - indeed you'd have to be extremely stupid not to be able to understand why it does...

Because you can't provide a single fact to support your "assertion" that business people would avoid travelling to Toronto unless it is with PD and, more importantly, it would have a negative economic impact, you again resort to petty insults.

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 110):
it's no wonder that Marc Garneau isn't making any serious statements yet; they both know there is so much to play at politically and no matter which choice is made it's now a political hot potato and the electorate in Toronto and Quebec are now impacted...and you can't say that Quebec isn't an important place for votes!

Euphemistically, Garneau has pulled a Pontious Pilate... instead of condemning the Raccoon himself he's washing his hands and is handing the Raccoon over to the "Sanhedrin" to decide its fate.  

Of course, if the City of Toronto votes to reopen the agreement, it puts Garneau having to support his statements and there will then be some tension around the cabinet table with the 3 Toronto Ministers.

Quoting diverted (Reply 107):
In that article about PD being debt free, you can get the idea that Bob is starting to play the "help Bombardier" card with his comments on how orders are better than bailouts. I'd expect this rhetoric to get a lot stronger in coming weeks and months.

It was echoed in this article in the Star:

Quote:
Deluce’s next argument will be that the CSeries jets he wants are important to the economic health of its manufacturer, Bombardier. In Toronto, however, where the company has failed to deliver the streetcars it’s building for the TTC in timely fashion, its name is synonymous with corporate ineptitude.
So far, Garneau has remained noncommittal. But a yes means he’s flying in the face of his colleagues from Canada’s most powerful city. As a former astronaut, Garneau surely knows the importance of a soft landing.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
radiopolitic
Posts: 105
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:53 am

Welp. Here is Marc Garneau himself now confirming that they will not re-open the tripartite agreement.

Link

Quote:
I confirm that GoC position is same as LPC commitment: we will not re-open tripartite agreement for Top
 
planemaker
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:08 am

Quoting radiopolitic (Reply 113):
Welp. Here is Marc Garneau himself now confirming that they will not re-open the tripartite agreement.

Wow... the time it took for him to backtracked from being open to what the studies and City of Toronto decides was pretty short. It would have been very interesting to have heard the internal LPC discussions that led to the about face!

Here's the CBC's article: New transport minister steps back from earlier suggestion the proposed Porter expansion could go ahead

[Edited 2015-11-12 20:11:11]
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
YXXMIKE
Posts: 171
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:25 am

Quoting planemaker (Reply 114):

Even by traditional government standards that's a fairly quick backtrack!

Off topic but after reading that comments section on the CBC article I have one question: Do all people in Toronto live in a parallel universe when it comes to the expansion and development of major infrastructure projects!? Sure LHR may never get a third runway but London will have built more miles of new subway and (assuming the legislation goes through) will have built another high speed rail line by the time the current tripartite agreement expires!!
 
Amiga500
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:12 am

Quoting planemaker (Reply 112):
No business person is NOT going to fly to Toronto for the marginal differences.

Yes they are.

At some point to someone the marginal difference will mean the difference between yes I'll go and no I won't.

To refuse to admit this is to refuse logic itself.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:42 am

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 116):
At some point to someone the marginal difference will mean the difference between yes I'll go and no I won't.
To refuse to admit this is to refuse logic itself.

You see ... this is where logic is lost. You are saying that someone in charge of a multi-million (or billion) dollar corporation is going to consciously NOT choose Toronto as a place of business because of the drive to the airport! That makes no sense.

Your profile says you are in Ireland. I say this respectfully, but have a look at a map of the Toronto area. Now, have a look at the highway system. You will see the vast majority of the GTA from say Whitby to Hamilton/Kitchener is actually closer to YYZ (in time) than YTZ. And, if you think the 401 is bad through Toronto, have a look at the Gardiner Expressway, QEW and Don Valley Parkway. They are low volume downtown highways that get clogged with even the mention of traffic.

YTZ is only more convenient to the people of Toronto for those that use transit ... or walk. In other words, if it's a fast trip to YTZ on the roads, then it will be a fast trip to YYZ as well.

Also ... the further away from Toronto one is, the lower the percentage of travel time favouring YTZ over YYZ ... when it does. So yes, there truly is an advantage for YUL and YOW being flown by Q400s, but far less of an advantage from say YVR, LAX or DFW flown by jets.

Namely, if you are sitting in LAX and deciding on whether to locate a business in Toronto, are you really going to turn it down because it would take 6 hours travel time through YYZ vice 5:30 through YTZ ... logically? (That is less than 10% travel time quicker).
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
planemaker
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:56 am

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 116):
Yes they are.

At some point to someone the marginal difference will mean the difference between yes I'll go and no I won't.

To refuse to admit this is to refuse logic itself.

It actually is rather funny your insistent claiming that a business person is going to actually cancel a business meeting in Toronto because it might take them 20 to 40 minutes more to get to their meeting going through YYZ. If that 20 to 40 minute is so important to them they would fly by chartered jet because a scheduled airline is just too unpredictable.   

What is even funnier is that even if "to someone the marginal difference will mean the difference between yes I'll go and no I won't", it has virtually zero economic impact - and that is what the point has been all along.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Amiga500
Posts: 2422
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:22 am

RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:03 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 117):

You see ... this is where logic is lost. You are saying that someone in charge of a multi-million (or billion) dollar corporation is going to consciously NOT choose Toronto as a place of business because of the drive to the airport! That makes no sense.

I already said up in reply 100:

Quote:
Now, it'll not be a case of multi-nationals all of a sudden upping sticks and leaving Toronto, but it'd be a case of them not making marginal calls that would have went in favour of Toronto and small businesses with a few interests possibly cutting right back.
 
Amiga500
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:06 am

Quoting planemaker (Reply 118):
It actually is rather funny your insistent claiming that a business person is going to actually cancel a business meeting in Toronto because it might take them 20 to 40 minutes more to get to their meeting going through YYZ.

And if the nature of the business requires multiple workers/managers being sent every week for an extended duration?


If better communications didn't aid business, then we wouldn't have motorways, wouldn't have aircraft and city airports wouldn't exist.
 
planemaker
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RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:33 pm

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 120):
And if the nature of the business requires multiple workers/managers being sent every week for an extended duration?

Especially for "an extended duration", any possible 20 to 40 minute marginal difference between the Island Airport and Pearson is even less of a factor... no matter how many people are on a business team. Over a 3 or 4 day trip, 20-40 minutes is insignificant.

But, once again, you completely avoid the point that started this discussion... if PD didn't exist it would have a marginal net economic impact.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
Amiga500
Posts: 2422
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:22 am

RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:15 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 121):
But, once again, you completely avoid the point that started this discussion... if PD didn't exist it would have a marginal net economic impact.

So now your not only making it more inconvenient to get to downtown, your wanting to reduce flight options and competition on routes....?

[In my reply120, I meant being sent for 1 day a week every week for extended duration. High frequency and short time.]


Anyway, this discussion has become pretty moot with the govt declaring there will be no jets on the Island. I suppose
the question now is - will PD buy any CSeries and run them out of Pearson instead? You'd have to say its unlikely - the island was a good differentiator for them and its no longer applicable.
 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: Trudeau Gov't Confirms No Jets @ YTZ

Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:22 pm

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 122):
So now your not only making it more inconvenient to get to downtown, your wanting to reduce flight options and competition on routes....?

Once again, if PD didn't exist it would have a marginal net economic impact. That is the only point that matters.

Quoting Amiga500 (Reply 122):
[In my reply120, I meant being sent for 1 day a week every week for extended duration. High frequency and short time.]

You can keep on trying to come up with hypothetical scenarios but It doesn't make a difference because if PD didn't exist it would have a marginal net economic impact.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein

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