|Quoting planemaker (Reply 101):|
You said "reasons" - plural, and instead of listing reasons you are only able to repeat your same single reason that does not apply specifically to PD and the Island Airport. The majority of their flights are on the Eastern Triangle and a business person can fly to Montreal on Air Canada from the Island Airport anyway. And depending upon city and schedule it is actually more inconvenient to fly PD, and depending on the flight, even more expensive.
beneficial for people who need to get downtown for a meeting and head back to say YOW
afterwards? Absolutely. The UPE train is a joke, the 401 is a disaster, and well, typical Toronto issues. All bypassed by flying to and from YTZ
. However, I agree with planemaker here. If PD
didn't exist, the majority of these pax would still fly, to YYZ
. Has PD
stimulated the market by introducing lower fares? Yes. In a meaningful way? Who's to say. Clearly they've attracted a fairly loyal clientele, and they seem to be doing well. But let's not kid ourselves and think that those pax wouldn't be travelling if PD
didn't exist. Some would probably choose driving or taking the train over flying, sure. But time sensitive travellers are still going to be flying. From anecdotal evidence, both PD
seem to do very well on the triangle. Look at the morning or afternoon flights. They're jammed from 0715-1100, and 1500-1930 or so. If anything it's WS
that's really struggling in the triangle; the majority of their pax to YYZ
seem to be connecting onwards to destinations served nonstop from YOW
(IE, fairly low yield)
|Quoting longhauler (Reply 97):|
And, as for whether Porter would generate additional tourist business if they had jet aircraft, that's a tough one to quatify. To think that, one would have to assume people are sitting at home looking for places to fly, and think ... "Gee, I can fly on a jet to downtown Toronto, let's go there". (Because flying into YYZ, taking a train, bus or automobile or even flying in a Q400 would be out of the question).
But I guess this discussion really come's down to the viability of two Toronto/Canada "darlings". Porter Airlines and would they survive without jet aircraft? ... and Bombardier with the CSeries and would they survive without the Porter order?
I am guessing yes to both. If Porter is viable/profitable now, then they will still be here whether they get jet aircraft or not. And the Bombardier CSeries? I don't think the Porter order neither guarantees nor dooms its survival.
can't expand YTZ
, the ops there will probably stay more or less the same as now. They've been around nearly 10 years now, I can't see them packing it in because the runway expansion didn't get approved. They'll grow YUL
and maybe start marching west. Deluce has hinted before that "WS should keep their eyes on their own backyard" rather than continuing to focus on entering eastern markets. Is he full of hot air? Who knows. I've long thought a YQT
tag on would be a good start, similar to how they operate to YHZ
and then tag on to YYT
About your comment about people "looking for places to fly" it does happen, surprisingly. I've often seen people decided last minute to go down for a Jays or Raptors game (who's going to fly in to watch the Laughs...I say that as a fan) and then walk back to the airport and head home, or grab a hotel and get on a morning flight. Would they be as inclined to do so having to go through YYZ
? Probably not. Of course, these aren't going to be a significant portion of pax, but they do exist.
In terms of the competition from Encore, I honestly don't think PD
is all that worried. Encore's Q400s are 78 seat cattlecars. PD
, even since adding an extra row to bring them to 74 pax, is significantly more comfortable. Sad that QK
is going to a 78 seat config on their birds too. I've had people complain left right and centre that they hate the Encore, and in the same sentence rave about how they love PD
. Honestly, I don't know if they realize it's the same aircraft type.
Anyways, point being, I think the whole jets thing is and was a longshot. Based on Deluce's history, if he gets the approvals, I fully expect him to take delivery. But at the same time, he's VERY good at using politicking for his own gain..remember how Miller campaigned on killing the bridge, trying to kill PD
in it's infancy. What happened? Deluce and crew got a nice cheque $20M as compensation. And they got a tunnel built, which ends up being better for them anyways (Paid for by AIF)
He's shrewd, and perhaps a bit optimistic, but he's not stupid