AS Announces New SNA-STS, RNO Service

hiflyeras · Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:25 pm

Now we know what AS is doing with their new QX slots out of SNA. RNO and STS beginning in March 2016.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/alaska...nces-flights-orange-130000364.html

ramprat74 · Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:44 pm

The small STS terminal is going be a busy place next summer. They're going to need more seating pre and post security for sure.

flyoregon · Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:49 pm

Ha! A.net had it announced before Alaska/Horizon announced in on their internal sites...

wedgetail737 · Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:51 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 1):
The small STS terminal is going be a busy place next summer. They're going to need more seating pre and post security for sure.

It's only a net gain of one flight per day at STS. It's like the extra STS-SEA flights during the summer. Hmm...I wonder if that means there will be 2X daily STS-SEA?

SonomaFlyer · Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:58 pm

STS has turned out to be a great success for AS. I certainly don't mind paying a bit more to catch a flight five minutes from my home.

At some point, they will need to add a second waiting room. It looks like they may be modular construction so the expensive will be manageable.

Keep in mind STS is actively pursuing additional service. The most likely would be DL to SLC or AA to PHX. With the runway expansion complete and AS continuing to grow (albeit with North/South service), I think there is a stronger business case to be made for regional jet service connecting to a major hub.

hiflyeras · Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:05 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 4):
Keep in mind STS is actively pursuing additional service. The most likely would be DL to SLC or AA to PHX. With the runway expansion complete and AS continuing to grow (albeit with North/South service), I think there is a stronger business case to be made for regional jet service connecting to a major hub.

Seems it wouldn't be too hard for AS to tag on a SLC turn out of STS. Send those cards and letters to AS!

usflyguy · Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:42 pm

I wonder if we will see WN ax a SNA-OAK/SJC/SFO/LAS/PHX r/t or two to add RNO. SNA isn't like the pacific nw where WN avoids AS competition, hence the addition of SNA-PDX and SNA-SEA.

ramprat74 · Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 5):
At some point, they will need to add a second waiting room. It looks like they may be modular construction so the expensive will be manageable.

They have room where the patio is if they choose to expand.

RWA380 · Tue Nov 03, 2015 7:33 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 6):
SNA isn't like the pacific nw where WN avoids AS competition, hence the addition of SNA-PDX and SNA-SEA.

Don't forget LAX-PDX on WN as well. WN & AS are not in fear of going head to head.

wedgetail737 · Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:14 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 5):
Seems it wouldn't be too hard for AS to tag on a SLC turn out of STS. Send those cards and letters to AS!

I would love to see the ERJ-175's flying into STS. But I know that's highly unlikely.

hiflyeras · Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:08 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 9):
I would love to see the ERJ-175's flying into STS. But I know that's highly unlikely.

Not at all...AS has plans to fly a lot more E175's throughout their network.

SonomaFlyer · Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:12 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 7):

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 5):
At some point, they will need to add a second waiting room. It looks like they may be modular construction so the expensive will be manageable.

They have room where the patio is if they choose to expand.

I believe they'd go the other way (north) and leave the patio where it sits. The AS planes currently park a bit north of the current building given resurfacing going on for the main parking pad. The new building could be immediately north of the old one and relocate the baggage operation as needed.

FlyPNS1 · Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:34 pm

STS actually publishes L/F data for all of the AS flights out of STS by month. The L/Fs are quite strong year round, so the new route isn't a surprise.

Given the wealth of the STS area and general appeal of Northern California, plus the misery of driving from Sonoma to SFO/OAK, it would seem like more growth will be in store for STS.

Sydscott · Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Thread starter):
RNO and STS beginning in March 2016.

Those 2 destinations were easily predictable once AS got the extra slots at SNA. So we know what the Horizon slots will be used for.

It'll be interesting to see how they use the OO slots now. BOI-SNA or FAT-SNA anyone?

warden145 · Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:44 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 12):
Given the wealth of the STS area and general appeal of Northern California, plus the misery of driving from Sonoma to SFO/OAK, it would seem like more growth will be in store for STS.

It's also a good choice for people from further north. I know people driving down to STS to catch the LAX flight instead of flying ACV-SFO-LAX to avoid the weather delays/cancellation risks at SFO and ACV...

wnflyguy · Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:59 pm

I'm guessing 1 EUG-SNA also Nike has a lot if ties to Orange county..

Flyguy

Freshside3 · Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:09 pm

Still, It's curious that they chose SNA--a non hub---to connect to STS.

mikesairways · Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:31 pm

I'm wondering if it is a place holder until they figure out what they really want to do perhaps?

I could have seen SNA-MMH (though I think UA tried it) or SNA-SLC to go after DL. I was really hoping for some more SJC love from SNA (maybe with the 170 perhaps).

hiflyeras · Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:03 am

I'd put my money on AS adding SNA-SLC with the OO slots. That should have been one of the first adds with the AS build-up in SLC. Utah people love the Magic Kingdom and an alternate to DL would probably do quite well.

wedgetail737 · Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:07 am

Did WN fly the SNA-RNO route at all? Or was AQ the last airline to run that route?

I was a little surprised that there is no SNA-FAT route on QX.

whatusaid · Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:48 am

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 13):
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Thread starter):
RNO and STS beginning in March 2016.

Those 2 destinations were easily predictable once AS got the extra slots at SNA. So we know what the Horizon slots will be used for.

It'll be interesting to see how they use the OO slots now. BOI-SNA or FAT-SNA anyone?

I'd love to see the return of FAT-SNA, but I doubt that a single RT would spark a return of the business traffic that justified the route back during the Air Cal or even West Air/UAX era. Given that the CRJ700s are to be replaced by the 175s, the need to route 700's through FAT for maintenance will vanish in 2016 unless they upgrade the OO hanger, so I'm not so optimistic. I hope to be proven wrong on SNA-FAT.

STS -SNA should be a win from the start, just as STS-SAN was.

Chuska · Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:55 am

American Eagle did TUS-SNA many years ago. Wonder if that could be revived?

wnflyguy · Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:53 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 19):

WN only used to do SNA-OAK-RNO-OAK-SNA during it's 737-500 days back when they only had 14 flts a day.

Aloha did SNA-RNO N/S daily.

I think AirCal may have done N/S also with BAE 146.

I think PSA did one stop SNA-FAT-RNO.

Flyguy

AVLAirlineFreq · Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:57 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 4):
Keep in mind STS is actively pursuing additional service. The most likely would be DL to SLC or AA to PHX. With the runway expansion complete and AS continuing to grow (albeit with North/South service), I think there is a stronger business case to be made for regional jet service connecting to a major hub.

What about DL STS-SEA?

Personally, I'd love to see STS-SLC.

whatusaid · Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:06 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 22):

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 19):

WN only used to do SNA-OAK-RNO-OAK-SNA during it's 737-500 days back when they only had 14 flts a day.

Aloha did SNA-RNO N/S daily.

I think AirCal may have done N/S also with BAE 146.

I think PSA did one stop SNA-FAT-RNO.

Flyguy

PSA never flew SNA-FAT. Golden West did SNA-FAT-TVL as did Air Cal. Golden West flew Dash 7's and Air Cal had an Electra on the SNA-FAT-TVL and 737's on SNA-FAT.

wedgetail737 · Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:16 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 22):
I think AirCal may have done N/S also with BAE 146.

Yeah...I know Air Cal did it with BAe-146's and 737-300's. Oh and I forgot Reno Air with their MD-90's.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 23):
What about DL STS-SEA?

It wouldn't surprise me, but I think DL has bigger fish to fry.

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 20):
I'd love to see the return of FAT-SNA, but I doubt that a single RT would spark a return of the business traffic that justified the route back during the Air Cal or even West Air/UAX era.

Does anyone remember the very short-lived Far West Airlines, who used YS-11's between SNA and FAT?

B727skyguy · Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:27 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 25):
Does anyone remember the very short-lived Far West Airlines, who used YS-11's between SNA and FAT?

I remember them! Their code was FV. I sent them my résumé.

FATFlyer · Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:11 am

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 24):
PSA never flew SNA-FAT. Golden West did SNA-FAT-TVL as did Air Cal. Golden West flew Dash 7's and Air Cal had an Electra on the SNA-FAT-TVL and 737's on SNA-FAT.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 25):
Does anyone remember the very short-lived Far West Airlines, who used YS-11's between SNA and FAT?

There was also Dash Air operating on the route about 1983/84.

Last on the route would have been the UAX carriers, first WestAir then Skywest.

F9Animal · Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:12 am

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 10):
Not at all...AS has plans to fly a lot more E175's throughout their network.

Music to my ears! The 170 sure looks good with Alaska on her! Maybe we might see QX make an order?

EA CO AS · Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:29 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 28):
Maybe we might see QX make an order?

QX is working internally to slim down their operating costs to make E175s work for them; Dave Campbell hopes to have this all wrapped up by the first of the year.

If QX can get their operating costs per hour down enough, Alaska Air Group is looking at placing a very substantial order for the E175.

F9Animal · Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:48 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 29):
QX is working internally to slim down their operating costs to make E175s work for them; Dave Campbell hopes to have this all wrapped up by the first of the year.

If QX can get their operating costs per hour down enough, Alaska Air Group is looking at placing a very substantial order for the E175.

I think it would be a perfect plane. I mean, as a passenger, I like the Q400. But, I do miss the QX Jet Metal. The F-28 was a great ride for sure. Hopefully this will happen. I am sure the QX pilots are very interested

PlanesNTrains · Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:53 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 30):
The F-28 was a great ride for sure.

Spotting at SEA sure isn't the same. F-27, F-28, Metro III- those were the days.

-Dave

hiflyeras · Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:04 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 29):
QX is working internally to slim down their operating costs to make E175s work for them; Dave Campbell hopes to have this all wrapped up by the first of the year.

If QX can get their operating costs per hour down enough, Alaska Air Group is looking at placing a very substantial order for the E175.

It's going to be a big pill to swallow for the people at QX but their survival depends on making it work. Otherwise they'll be relegated to only short-haul routes more appropriate to the Q400 forever. AS knows they've reached the limit of what they can do with the Q's and need to upgauge their regional aircraft in many markets to better compete and grow. I feel badly for the folks at QX but they really don't have a choice.

macsog6 · Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:57 pm

As one who flies a great deal from RNO, adding both SNA and BOI as QX/AS did is greatly appreciated. Now if QX would just add SFO from RNO, I'd be quite happy.

[Edited 2015-11-04 09:19:58]

BoeingGuy · Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:10 pm

Quoting WhatUsaid (Reply 24):

PSA never flew SNA-FAT. Golden West did SNA-FAT-TVL as did Air Cal. Golden West flew Dash 7's and Air Cal had an Electra on the SNA-FAT-TVL and 737's on SNA-FAT.

Someone else mentioned this. I don't recall Air California ever doing FAT-TVL. When was it.? I knew Air California did OAK, SJC, SFO and I think SNA on occasion to TVL

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 29):

If QX can get their operating costs per hour down enough, Alaska Air Group is looking at placing a very substantial order for the E175.

Will QX keep the Q400s, or will they become an all E175 fleet?

FATFlyer · Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:31 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 34):
Someone else mentioned this. I don't recall Air California ever doing FAT-TVL. When was it.? I knew Air California did OAK, SJC, SFO and I think SNA on occasion to TVL

Here is a route map from March 1979 showing FAT-TVL.
http://airwaysnews.com/galleries/4659.jpg

hiflyeras · Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:34 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 34):
Will QX keep the Q400s, or will they become an all E175 fleet?

Time will tell...but no matter the outcome I believe the Q400's will always have a place in the QX fleet.

psa1011 · Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:44 pm

Quoting macsog6 (Reply 33):

I think QX would do better to start RNO-OAK and connect with Hawaii flights.

N1120A · Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:05 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 3):
Hmm...I wonder if that means there will be 2X daily STS-SEA?

The plane will have to rotate from somewhere.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 4):
STS has turned out to be a great success for AS. I certainly don't mind paying a bit more to catch a flight five minutes from my home.

I bet. That airport is great.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 4):
Keep in mind STS is actively pursuing additional service. The most likely would be DL to SLC or AA to PHX. With the runway expansion complete and AS continuing to grow (albeit with North/South service), I think there is a stronger business case to be made for regional jet service connecting to a major hub.

AA to PHX would seem to make sense, though AS to LAX duplicates a lot of those flows, given their growing cooperation with AA and AA's growing hub at LAX.

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 5):
Seems it wouldn't be too hard for AS to tag on a SLC turn out of STS. Send those cards and letters to AS!

Is there really much of a market for a wine region from SLC?

Quoting warden145 (Reply 14):
It's also a good choice for people from further north. I know people driving down to STS to catch the LAX flight instead of flying ACV-SFO-LAX to avoid the weather delays/cancellation risks at SFO and ACV...

Oh, I'd imagine STS serves as a micro hub for much of that region.

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 16):
Still, It's curious that they chose SNA--a non hub---to connect to STS.

All about demand. There is a ton of demand from Southern California to Sonoma/Napa. Also, it is a good use of a Q400.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 34):
Will QX keep the Q400s, or will they become an all E175 fleet?

It would be insane for them to get rid of the Q400 for the E75. The operating economics for the Q400 on much of the QX network are just too good.

wedgetail737 · Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:26 pm

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 37):
I think QX would do better to start RNO-OAK and connect with Hawaii flights.

Doesn't QX already fly the RNO-SJC flights already?

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 30):
The F-28 was a great ride for sure.

Luckily, I was able to fly on a couple between BOI-SEA.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
All about demand. There is a ton of demand from Southern California to Sonoma/Napa. Also, it is a good use of a Q400.

I would have to agree. I would think a BUR-STS would be successful as well.

psa1011 · Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:38 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 39):
Doesn't QX already fly the RNO-SJC flights already?

It does, but that's a different market, the South Bay. The East Bay has no flights to RNO.

BayAreaFlyer · Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:46 pm

The Director of RNO has been negotiating with QX for quite sometime to bring the OAK-RNO route back, which was served by WN and G4. Also working with other carriers to provide direct flights from RNO to Washington, DC.

Freshside3 · Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:58 pm

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 40):
It does, but that's a different market, the South Bay. The East Bay has no flights to RNO.

Quoting BayAreaFlyer (Reply 41):
The Director of RNO has been negotiating with QX for quite sometime to bring the OAK-RNO route back, which was served by WN and G4. Also working with other carriers to provide direct flights from RNO to Washington, DC.

OAK is in a lot better position for driving, than SFO or SJC, and takes a shorter time than those other two airports.

However, it is a hassle to drive when getting close to the border, in the winter, due to snow issues.

As for RNO to Washington DC, yes there is government business, and RNO being the closest commercial airport to the state capital, Carson City. But also, a huge Basque population in Northern Nevada that goes to MAD/CDG, and a flight to IAD would be another connection option. Keep in mind that UA no longer has RNO-IAH and IAH-CDG. Plus the fact that Thomas Cook backed out of planned RNO-LGW service, which the people in RNO greatly anticipated.

BayAreaFlyer · Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:11 pm

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 42):

Curious with RNO-DC, I don't see UA nor B6 start this route, WN has been slashing IAD. Could we see WN pick up RNO-BWI?

F9Animal · Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:02 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 31):
Spotting at SEA sure isn't the same. F-27, F-28, Metro III- those were the days.

-Dave

No kidding! The different metal flying in now is fun. We have the 717, CRJ, E170 and 190, and a few other odd visitors. I do miss the good old days though!

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 39):
Luckily, I was able to fly on a couple between BOI-SEA.

It was a fun ride for sure. I wish I had taken every second of it as a last ride on one. But, it is nice to say we experienced it.

Quoting BayAreaFlyer (Reply 41):
The Director of RNO has been negotiating with QX for quite sometime to bring the OAK-RNO route back, which was served by WN and G4. Also working with other carriers to provide direct flights from RNO to Washington, DC.

RNO is a little gold mine if it is treated right. It will never be a powerhouse, but I think it would make a nice focus city. We have seen many airlines through the years put a focus on this little gem. I think AS will seize the opportunity, just like this airline has seized many other opportunities.

Freshside3 · Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:36 pm

Quoting BayAreaFlyer (Reply 43):
Curious with RNO-DC, I don't see UA nor B6 start this route, WN has been slashing IAD. Could we see WN pick up RNO-BWI?

Indeed, that might work. I was just trying to think of what other connections that would put it "over the top". Since I rarely deal with WN or BWI, it's easy to forget there's a hub there.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 44):
RNO is a little gold mine if it is treated right. It will never be a powerhouse, but I think it would make a nice focus city. We have seen many airlines through the years put a focus on this little gem. I think AS will seize the opportunity, just like this airline has seized many other opportunities.

Difficult to say exactly how AS could do it, but they certainly could have something viable out of RNO. It is a very misunderstood market, and could make some money. The one advantage with AS(that WN doesn't have)is interline agreements with carriers that fly internationally. And especially connecting RNO with CDG, MAD, and LHR/LGW.

PlanesNTrains · Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:33 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 44):
We have the 717, CRJ, E170 and 190, and a few other odd visitors. I do miss the good old days though!

Yes, but we don't have the airport viewpark anymore.

-Dave

EA CO AS · Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:38 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 34):
Will QX keep the Q400s, or will they become an all E175 fleet?

The Q400s would stay; the E175 would just be a separate fleet on the property at QX and would (likely) take over for all existing OO flying, plus new not-quite-ready-for-mainline markets in the future.

N1120A · Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:50 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 39):
I would have to agree. I would think a BUR-STS would be successful as well.

Maybe, but LAX is going to hurt that.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 47):
The Q400s would stay; the E175 would just be a separate fleet on the property at QX and would (likely) take over for all existing OO flying, plus new not-quite-ready-for-mainline markets in the future.

That makes lots of sense.

macsog6 · Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 45):
The one advantage with AS(that WN doesn't have)is interline agreements with carriers that fly internationally. And especially connecting RNO with CDG, MAD, and LHR/LGW.

That's exactly why I was hoping for RNO-SFO as opposed to RNO-OAK. With OAK, you're mostly going to the Bay area as connections are slim other than to Hawaii. But with SFO, I could connect to many international destinations that I now either have to go to LAX, ORD, SEA or even DFW to make. The drive from Reno to OAK is much quicker than the drive to SFO is, but neither is quick once the snow falls in the Donner Pass.

I once took a taxi from OAK to SFO to make an international connection and the taxi fare was more than the RNO-OAK WN ticket was. Maybe that's why WN no longer flies the route.

And the AS/QX flights to SJC allow you to make a few, yet growing, international connections at SJC; but mostly I'd have to take the taxi up to SFO.

I'm still hoping for RNO-SFO.

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