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KarelXWB
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Boston Aviation - Part 7

Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:15 am

Please continue here.

Boston Aviation - Part 6 (by KarelXWB Sep 15 2015 in Civil Aviation)
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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VS4ever
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:10 pm

Copa reducing frequency to 5x weekly Mar-May 16

http://airlineroute.net/2015/11/05/cm-bos-mar16/
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:14 pm

A lovely China Southern 77W stopped at Boston overnight, apparently. Talk about serendipity.
 
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VS4ever
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:18 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 2):
A lovely China Southern 77W stopped at Boston overnight, apparently. Talk about serendipity.

Bummer, in a former life I used to work with a company that financed one of those puppies, shame I will miss it, as I am sure it will be gone when i get to BOS tomorrow.

Perhaps the next rumored route... just to get tongues wagging.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:23 pm

Quoting vs4ever (Reply 1):

Copa reducing frequency to 5x weekly Mar-May 16

http://airlineroute.net/2015/11/05/cm-bos-mar16/

On the positive side, they have been using the 738 a lot lately which should have better economics and allow CM to take some market share by lowering prices a bit.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
ASA
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting vs4ever (Reply 3):

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 2):
A lovely China Southern 77W stopped at Boston overnight, apparently. Talk about serendipity.

Bummer, in a former life I used to work with a company that financed one of those puppies, shame I will miss it, as I am sure it will be gone when i get to BOS tomorrow.

Perhaps the next rumored route... just to get tongues wagging.

A China Southern service to CAN is exactly what I was 'day-dreaming' this morning. Glad to see my fellow-dreamers! 

Guangzhou-Shenzen-Dongguan-HongKong-Macau-Zhongshan-Foshan, combined, is becoming the mother of megacities, the business and trade linkages would eventually be HUGE. CX did a smart thing by launching BOS ... I won't be surprised if they increased to daily by S16.

Big version: Width: 1068 Height: 1140 File size: 125kb


[Edited 2015-11-05 11:29:42]
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:19 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 5):
A China Southern service to CAN is exactly what I was 'day-dreaming' this morning.

Its definitely not a crazy idea with over 90 points in China alone served at CAN.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
airbazar
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:55 pm

It took a while to get another airline. I was starting to get nervous  
Air Berlin is starting new service to Boston from DUS, starting Spring 2016.
AB To Start BOS/DFW/HAV/SFO From DUS (by theearlybird Nov 10 2015 in Civil Aviation)
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
Air Berlin is starting new service to Boston from DUS, starting Spring 2016.

Would have never expected this in light of recent events (AB's financial ills, EW supposedly launching CGN-BOS which is right next door.)
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:17 pm

This possibly cuts into Condor's PVD service a bit.
 
airbazar
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:02 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 8):
Would have never expected this in light of recent events (AB's financial ills, EW supposedly launching CGN-BOS which is right next door.)

But at the same time they have a sugar daddy with deep pockets (EY), and are part of OneWorld. If anything I'd expect them to do better than EW. And it wouldn't surprise me if this isn't a preemptive strike against Eurowings.
 
iyerhari
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:03 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
I was starting to get nervous

  This further cements OW alliance at Logan. Wow - in just over 1.5 yrs. OW has become the largest alliance at Logan. I'm assuming that they will have a codeshare with AA.

Just curious - is DUS a bigger city in terms of business and O&D than TXL?
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:04 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 9):
This possibly cuts into Condor's PVD service a bit.

I personally think DY is a bigger threat to that though their connections aren't so hot. It sounds like AB is taking their all coach A332's and adding some J. I don't think these flights will be low cost but I could (and hopefully) be wrong. JFK-DUS isn't cheap on AB.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
airbazar
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting iyerhari (Reply 11):
This further cements OW alliance at Logan. Wow - in just over 1.5 yrs. OW has become the largest alliance at Logan. I'm assuming that they will have a codeshare with AA.

That all depends on how you define "largest". For me it's a toss-up between *A and OW. While Asia is a gaping hole for *A from BOS, by contrast only *A has a hub that can compete against the ME3 from BOS and that is IST. *A also serves more international destinations.

Star:
LH
UA
AC
LX
TK
CM
EW*


OW:
AA
BA
JL
CX
IB
QR
AB*

[Edited 2015-11-10 11:54:02]
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:18 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 13):

Add SK to *A and eventually EI is heading into OW:
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
ncflyer
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:45 pm

A teeny tiny example of why BOS is growing like hotcakes esp. internationally.

To fly from CLE, my home airport, to CDG is $1400 and change typically, r/t on economy with some advance purchase.

Yet if I buy a Jet Blue ticket to Boston, and then a separate DL/AF ticket to CDG, it costs $1000 round trip.

So-- guess where I'll be changing planes for my upcoming trip to Europe? Not JFK, DTW, ATL, EWR, like I might have previously.

The same arbitrage exists to London, it exists to Istanbul, I'm sure it exists more places but these are a couple I checked via BOS.

And I'm sure it exists to more cities in the U.S. besides CLE.

I'm sure if I'm noticing this, tons and tons of other people pick up on this. Yeah I suppose a slight risk with two tickets on two airlines for one itinerary, but $400 is not chump change.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:02 pm

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 15):
The same arbitrage exists to London, it exists to Istanbul, I'm sure it exists more places but these are a couple I checked via BOS.
Quoting ncflyer (Reply 15):
Yeah I suppose a slight risk with two tickets on two airlines for one itinerary, but $400 is not chump change.

Remember you can interline with B6 to some of those destinations with BA, TK, EI, FI etc. Eliminates risk. I would always check jetblue.com since some of those itineraries can be booked directly on it.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
VAM8789
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:51 pm

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 15):
A teeny tiny example of why BOS is growing like hotcakes esp. internationally.

To fly from CLE, my home airport, to CDG is $1400 and change typically, r/t on economy with some advance purchase.

Yet if I buy a Jet Blue ticket to Boston, and then a separate DL/AF ticket to CDG, it costs $1000 round trip.

So-- guess where I'll be changing planes for my upcoming trip to Europe? Not JFK, DTW, ATL, EWR, like I might have previously.

The same arbitrage exists to London, it exists to Istanbul, I'm sure it exists more places but these are a couple I checked via BOS.

And I'm sure it exists to more cities in the U.S. besides CLE.

I'm sure if I'm noticing this, tons and tons of other people pick up on this. Yeah I suppose a slight risk with two tickets on two airlines for one itinerary, but $400 is not chump change.

I know a few people who do things like this. My co-worker, who makes a yearly trip to the Caribbean, will buy a BOS-JFK-BOS ticket and then a JFK-STT/SXM/AUA-JFK ticket and save hundreds doing this. Or my co-worker who is from Egypt will sometimes drive down to JFK and fly JFK-CAI non-stop on MS and save over $1,000 (he has a family of 4) because flying via FRA or CDG would cost a lot more during the periods he wanted to go.

As long as you give yourself plenty of time on the layover you should be good.
 
airbazar
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:55 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 14):

Add SK to *A and eventually EI is heading into OW:

Forgot those.
The history of alliances has always been very fluid at BOS. Initially BOS was a SkyTeam stronghold, both domestically and International with the likes of DL, NW, CO, AF and AZ. Then the LH group expanded, CO and NW disappeared, and *A became the stronger alliance with the likes of LH, LX, US, and UA. OW has always played second fiddle, focusing primarily on it's UK passenger base and of course AA had to go thru Ch11. It was only through the recent AA/US merger and additions of CX and QR that OW has become one of the stronger alliances in BOS.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:02 pm

Although not organically, BOS has evolved into what some people would define as a 'Hub' with all this new international service. Now the challenge shifts from shepherding people for gate to car or bus, but from gate to gate and terminal to terminal...as a hub would.
 
dfambro
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:17 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 13):
While Asia is a gaping hole for *A from BOS, by contrast only *A has a hub that can compete against the ME3 from BOS and that is IST. *A also serves more international destinations.

This statement is a little odd, given that OW contains an ME3 member who serves BOS. The TK and QR hubs make OW and *A pretty equivalent, as opposed to there being a differentiating feature of *A.

Asia is a gaping hole for *A. It is not a gaping hole for OW, with two major destinations (which are also large connecting hubs). That is a clear advantage to OW.

*A may have more "international" destinations, but we should be clear in differentiating international from intercontinental. I suspect in many people's minds, "international" means a big plane flying a long way, not an RJ flying a few hundred miles, somewhat northernly. The AC flights inflate the *A flight count, but are conceptually different from the connectivity provided by the likes of TK/QR/LX/CX etc.
 
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VS4ever
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:20 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 19):
Although not organically, BOS has evolved into what some people would define as a 'Hub' with all this new international service. Now the challenge shifts from shepherding people for gate to car or bus, but from gate to gate and terminal to terminal...as a hub would.

It's getting there for sure, with the E to C connector, that should help with the feed to B6 and vice versa at the very least. A and B are a little more tricky, but to be honest, BOS isn't that big of an airport in the grand scheme of things, you can transit via Central Parking pretty easily or take the shuttle bus as two options.

It's still quite amazing to me, even with all this growth, other places are still growing faster in 2015, that said, 2016 is in for some serious uplift now, as long as the gate availability issues at peak times are kept to a minimum. (EK full year of 2x, EW: Swiss International Airlines (Switzerland)">LX summer uplift, DY, AB, SK, EW, QR to name but a few)

I am very happy AB decided to join the party, to be honest i have been surprised (apart from hearing their financial woes), they hadn't already made a play for DUS-BOS. Perhaps this an indirect way for EY to join in without committing their own metal. Who knows.....
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
airbazar
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:35 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 19):
Although not organically, BOS has evolved into what some people would define as a 'Hub' with all this new international service.

I've been saying that for a couple of years now. I'm glad someone is coming around to it 
Quoting dfambro (Reply 20):
This statement is a little odd, given that OW contains an ME3 member who serves BOS.

QR doesn't serve BOS yet so nothing odd with that statement. And Europe is a far bigger market from Boston than all of Asia combined so the lack of *A to Asia while noteworthy is not nearly as significant as the limited options of OW service to Europe. If you're a OW customer your options here are LHR of MAD. Pretty measly if you ask me.

Quoting dfambro (Reply 20):
I suspect in many people's minds, "international" means a big plane flying a long way, not an RJ flying a few hundred miles, somewhat northernly.

And you'd be wrong. The immigration line is just as annoying whether you fly on a 77W or on a Q400. International is international. There are plenty of people who like connecting in Canada instead of any of the major U.S. hubs.
 
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VS4ever
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:50 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 22):
And you'd be wrong. The immigration line is just as annoying whether you fly on a 77W or on a Q400. International is international. There are plenty of people who like connecting in Canada instead of any of the major U.S. hubs.

you are correct, unlike our friends to the north, who have 3 categories: Domestic, Transborder (US flights) and International, the US has 2 Domestic and International.

International can be subdivided between pre-cleared (AC) and not pre-cleared (PD) for Canada or EI (pre-cleared) or BA (not pre-cleared), or by continental origination (in Massport's reports) but that's about the long and the short of it.

Quoting dfambro (Reply 20):
I suspect in many people's minds, "international" means a big plane flying a long way, not an RJ flying a few hundred miles, somewhat northernly. The AC flights inflate the *A flight count, but are conceptually different from the connectivity provided by the likes of TK/QR/LX/CX etc.

In most people's minds, going outside your border is considered international, no matter what the physical distance. For example, those going from SAN to TIJ, the distance is about 20 miles, but you are saying that's not international, or BTV - YYZ? there's a border, you need a passport...... most people don't have much of a clue or care what they are flying on, they just want to get from a to b and if they are going to Canada, that's an international trip.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
PVD757
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:41 am

I would suspect the new AB service will cut into the multiple daily LH FRA/MUC frequencies more so than the twice weekly seasonal Condor service. The DE service was supported much more by passengers in the RI area versus pulling a lot of passengers away from BOS. They also stimulated the market quite a bit. The LH interline also provides PVD passengers the only logical European connecting network without backtracking to EWR or PHL, so there were lots of connections via FRA as well. Lastly, I would think the AB and EW flights would be supported by German passengers verus American whereas DE is PVD's European airline which again, tailors more to the RI customer.

In any event, BOS is seeing amazing growth and it will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

BTW, DE is starting a week earlier in S16, so thats a good thing.
 
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tlecam
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:22 am

Good news. It would be interesting if AirBerlin served...Berlin!
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
dfambro
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:30 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 22):
QR doesn't serve BOS yet so nothing odd with that statement.

But they will soon. I assume you know that, since you listed them yourself on Reply 13 as an OW carrier, and I was quoting your statement from Reply 13. So, decide, are they in the conversation or not?

Quoting airbazar (Reply 22):
Europe is a far bigger market from Boston than all of Asia combined so the lack of *A to Asia while noteworthy is not nearly as significant as the limited options of OW service to Europe. If you're a OW customer your options here are LHR of MAD.

The biggest single market across the Atlantic from BOS is LHR, by far. Not served by *A. So not sure how you can say that's measly vs FRA, MUC and ZRH, and those three cities even outweighs lack of connectivity to an entire continent with a much higher population that Europe and North America combined.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 22):
And you'd be wrong. The immigration line is just as annoying whether you fly on a 77W or on a Q400. International is international. There are plenty of people who like connecting in Canada instead of any of the major U.S. hubs.

OK, I give up. Bostonians can just drive to Montreal in not much more time than it takes to fly there, but we'll count it as impressive *A connectivity since it's international.
 
iyerhari
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:11 pm

Wikipedia has been updated yesterday: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_International_Airport#Airlines_and_destinations

The destinations and airlines really looks good   Let's get some new domestic destinations now!
 
VAM8789
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:35 pm

Quoting iyerhari (Reply 27):

Wikipedia has been updated yesterday: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_International_Airport#Airlines_and_destinations

The destinations and airlines really looks good   Let's get some new domestic destinations now!

On the domestic side, what's left to really add? SAT and SDF are what stands out.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:59 pm

Quoting dfambro (Reply 26):
OK, I give up. Bostonians can just drive to Montreal in not much more time than it takes to fly there, but we'll count it as impressive *A connectivity since it's international.

YYZ and YUL do serve as international hubs as well. AC gets their fair share of Europe and Asia traffic from BOS especially with the low-cost Rouge options.

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 28):
On the domestic side, what's left to really add? SAT and SDF are what stands out.

There's a thread about ABQ wanting BOS service but its long and thin.

If B6 wanted to try to stimulate something within E-190 range

PHF/ORF - close to RIC but its own MSA

Close

DSM
OMA
MEM - previously served

Less likely

MSN
OKC
BHM
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
markboston
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:36 pm

When will the link between terminals C and E open?
 
hinckley
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:55 pm

Quoting markboston (Reply 30):
When will the link between terminals C and E open?

I think that the link is still about a year away, but this is an airside link only. It will help passengers transferring from a Terminal C domestic flight to a Terminal E international flight. But I'm not sure it helps passengers transferring from Terminal E to Terminal C. After exiting customs, will they be able to re-enter the secure area by gong through security in Terminal E and taking the airside link to Terminal C, or will they still have to walk outside and then go through the very circuitous route to get to connecting Terminal C domestic flights?
 
iyerhari
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:14 pm

Quoting VAM8789 (Reply 28):
SAT and SDF are what stands out

Do you think that CVG looks more likely than SDF? CVG has a lot more business traffic thanks to GE Aircraft Engines, Kroger etc.

There was an article few months back on B6 coming to CVG but that is not happening. See article below:

http://www.pointswithacrew.com/the-curious-case-of-delta-and-cvg/

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news.../take-jetblue-cincinnati/72650246/
 
iyerhari
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:16 pm

With so many OW connections and codeshares happening, anyone thinks that inline terminal B to E would be also done eventually? I do not know how easy it maybe to do that but maybe considered by Massport?
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:23 pm

Quoting iyerhari (Reply 33):
inline terminal B to E would be also done eventually?

A to B to C is planned in the long term. Massport wouldn't do B to E it would be a huge connector.

Quoting iyerhari (Reply 32):
Do you think that CVG looks more likely than SDF?

CVG is still served by DL

SDF is not (was served in the Comair days)

I think CVG is more likely especially if DL drops a frequency or CVG gives B6 a sweet deal they can't refuse. SDF is a bit outside the box for B6.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:50 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 12):

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 9):
This possibly cuts into Condor's PVD service a bit.

I personally think DY is a bigger threat to that though their connections aren't so hot. It sounds like AB is taking their all coach A332's and adding some J. I don't think these flights will be low cost but I could (and hopefully) be wrong. JFK-DUS isn't cheap on AB.

BOS-DUS is now bookable - pricing is pretty much the same as JFK

Just Under $1000 for May to mid-June

$1300 - rest of summer

This isn't low fare service.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
flyby519
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:07 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 34):
SDF is a bit outside the box for B6.

B6 has certainly gone outside the box with adds like BOS-CHS and the success it has become. I wouldn't be surprised to see SDF added instead of CVG. B6 is generally cautious to go head to head with DL hubs, even though CVG is shrinking for DL.
 
airbazar
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:10 pm

Quoting hinckley (Reply 31):
But I'm not sure it helps passengers transferring from Terminal E to Terminal C. After exiting customs, will they be able to re-enter the secure area by gong through security in Terminal E and taking the airside link to Terminal C

That would be ideal. IIRC, IAH does exactly that.
Maybe use the former WN security checkpoint for connecting passengers.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 34):
A to B to C is planned in the long term. Massport wouldn't do B to E it would be a huge connector.

If C to E is already in the works, and eventually they build a B to C connector doesn't that imply that B to E (via C), would also exist? Yes a long walk but I've had transfers just as long at IAH, AMS. and even FRA.
 
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VS4ever
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:19 pm

BOS ain't anywhere near as bad as LHR in terms of walking.

Worst case right now. Walk through Central Parking, yeah you have to go outside security but compared to some the wait times to get back through aren't exactly terrible.

Connectors all the way around would be awesome and certainly no worse than hiking all the way through ORD as another example.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
motif1
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 35):
BOS-DUS is now bookable - pricing is pretty much the same as JFK

Just Under $1000 for May to mid-June

$1300 - rest of summer

This isn't low fare service.

Direct service is always more expensive. I just hope that all these new routes put some pressure on the fares. I don't think that fares have gone down even with all the new carriers coming in which is amazing! It smells of collusion between the airlines.
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PVD757
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:38 pm

DE from PVD to FRA is about $900.
 
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VS4ever
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:45 pm

Quoting motif1 (Reply 39):
It smells of collusion between the airlines.

Actually it doesn't to me anyway and here's why, if you think about it, with the exception of LHR and to an extent CDG, there is no direct competition on these flights, each is serving its own purpose. Now when DUS/CGN/FRA/MUC all get going together next year there might be some fun there, but otherwise there isn't much reason to reduce the prices, even with all this new capacity going in.

If you look at Massport reports, with the 2015 numbers so far, there is little evidence of cannibilization of routes, yet. for Aug 15, LHR was actually 3% up over 2014, this would be one you might expect to be down.

So basically what has happened thus far, is that these routes have started and people have made use of them, it might be that connections from JFK, ORD, SEA, LAX maybe down as people fly direct, but those airports are all increasing pax traffic too. While this is happening and forward bookings are strong, no need to reduce prices, airlines making money and the routes stay. healthy competition is always good, but i'll take this for right now as things are still growing.
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adamh8297
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:47 am

Quoting motif1 (Reply 39):
Direct service is always more expensive. I just hope that all these new routes put some pressure on the fares.

Pretty much any connecting itinerary via DUS is over $1150. I hope they are tweaking times.. schedules aren't that great.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 37):
If C to E is already in the works, and eventually they build a B to C connector doesn't that imply that B to E (via C), would also exist?

That what I was leading too.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 36):
B6 has certainly gone outside the box with adds like BOS-CHS and the success it has become.

CHS and SAV are more leisure-ish though and the market can be easily stimulated.

SDF is not a big leisure market or a core business market such as PIT or BUF (though there's got to be some business traffic) for BOS.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
cloudboy
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:35 pm

What they really need at Logan is an airside circulator. One of those cable car systems like they have at MSP or DTW. That way you can connect all the terminals post security.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
airbazar
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:38 pm

Quoting motif1 (Reply 39):
It smells of collusion between the airlines.

I wouldn't go that far but the fuel surcharge is the great equalizer. If you look at the actual fare, they are not that bad. But then you add on a $400 fuel surcharge and things look a lot different. But since the fuel surcharge is where the profits come from no airline is willing to lower it and as a result you have what looks like collusion but it's really just combined greed. If any major airline decides to drop the fuel surcharge in half (after all it make sense since fuel prices have dropped in half since its inception), you will see all other airlines follow suit. But I doubt that will happen and people have to fly anyway so we're screwed.
 
ASA
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 35):
BOS-DUS is now bookable - pricing is pretty much the same as JFK

Just Under $1000 for May to mid-June

$1300 - rest of summer

This isn't low fare service.

Exactly! Most fares are $1000 to anywhere ... Emirates is a better 'low-fare' carrier to Asia   

Just checked fares for CGK and DAC for late Dec-Jan... $1009 and $1060, respectively. Hilarious!

Quoting vs4ever (Reply 21):
I am very happy AB decided to join the party, to be honest i have been surprised (apart from hearing their financial woes), they hadn't already made a play for DUS-BOS. Perhaps this an indirect way for EY to join in without committing their own metal. Who knows.....

I had to fly to FRA and then drive (I could have taken ICE too) to Bonn this past July ... and now suddenly Rhine-Ruhr will have daily flights next summer. Maybe it's a sign that I should go to this conference again in 2016 

But this much european growth in one year is really amazing ... DUS, CGN, MAN, LGW, OSL, CPH, ORK ... crazy! I guess the perfect entry time for TATL LCCs given the high $1000+ fares on legacy carriers ...

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 19):
Although not organically, BOS has evolved into what some people would define as a 'Hub' with all this new international service. Now the challenge shifts from shepherding people for gate to car or bus, but from gate to gate and terminal to terminal...as a hub would.

Yes - a unique 'gateway hub' - B6 covering the domestic side and a number of international airlines to the world outside. In addition, the big alliances have services to their internal and international hubs ...

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 43):
What they really need at Logan is an airside circulator. One of those cable car systems like they have at MSP or DTW. That way you can connect all the terminals post security.

  

Sooner or later, Logan has to develop a central terminal / people mover system (even better if airside) utilizing the central parking area or above the roadway a la SFO ...
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:31 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 45):
ORK

Not official though DY has the intent - I've heard ORK is based on the Norwegian Air International Irish subsidiary getting approved by DOT

Quoting ASA (Reply 45):
Emirates is a better 'low-fare' carrier to Asia

HU and even CX has low fares ($1100-1200 on BOS-HKG is not outrageous) especially on a cents per mile basis
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:14 pm

With this new influx of European service happening next year, are we at risk of being oversubscribed to Heathrow? Is DL going to keep flying to LHR? Is BA still going to field 4x a day?
 
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adamh8297
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:26 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 47):
Is BA still going to field 4x a day?

Once A380 gates are done - maybe 3X A380 of some mix of A380 and 777
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN
 
airbazar
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RE: Boston Aviation - Part 7

Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:58 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 47):
Is DL going to keep flying to LHR? Is BA still going to field 4x a day?

I suspect DL's flights to LHR are driven by their corporate contracts and FF customers so my guess is yes, they will remain.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 48):
Once A380 gates are done - maybe 3X A380 of some mix of A380 and 777

Some people think that BOS like JFK will never see an A380. I guess we'll find out.

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