German Media: SQ To Start SIN - DUS

vfw614 · Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:14 pm

According to two local newspapers from the Düsseldorf area, Singapore Airlines will announce a new route SIN - DUS next monday. Earlier this week, DUS airport invited media outlets to a press conference on Nov 9, 2015 during which an unnamed "exciting new longhaul destination" to a "financial centre" will be announced. Apparently the papers got wind of the destination:

http://www.solinger-tageblatt.de/rhe...-nach-singapur-sommer-5778341.html

EddieDude · Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:17 pm

Exciting. Düsseldorf and DUS' catchment area are extremely prosperous and heavily industrialized. I believe it is safe to say that the business prospects of this new route, if true, are good.

jacobchoi · Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:47 pm

If true, then congratulatiins. It has been aeons since they have launched a new destination and they have a lot of catching up to do. But I guess late start is better than no start.

a380787 · Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:52 pm

The Star network out of DUS is expanding to the east but shrinking to the west

CA PEK-DUS, NH NRT-DUS and now SQ SIN-DUS

cancelled ones include TG BKK-DUS and LH ORD-DUS

Milesdependent · Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:01 pm

Wonder what aircraft type? Potential 350 destination ?

lesfalls · Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:11 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 3):

Well at least EWR-DUS is being upgraded to A340-600.

a380787 · Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:20 pm

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 5):
Well at least EWR-DUS is being upgraded to A340-600.

I guess that's a nice consolation prize. I'm still surprised that LH is completely abandoning DUS for EW.

ORD-DUS should come back in the form of Jump

MAH4546 · Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:19 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 3):
cancelled ones include TG BKK-DUS and LH ORD-DUS

And MIA/YYZ on LH.

330lover · Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:58 am

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 5):
Well at least EWR-DUS is being upgraded to A340-600.

Does this mean LH will base an A346 in DUS, or will it be a W-pattern like MUC-EWR-DUS-EWR-MUC (or FRA i.s.o. MUC)?

SCQ83 · Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:06 am

SQ could use that old Emirates motto now...

When was the last time you... started an European route?

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 1):
Exciting. Düsseldorf and DUS' catchment area are extremely prosperous and heavily industrialized.

Not trying to be picky, but the area around DUS (even if Dusseldorf is quite a wealthy city itself) has its ups and downs. NRW is an area that has been heavily deindustrialized (coal) and some cities like Essen or Duisburg look more like Detroit than like central Munich; some of those cities are among the poorest and with highest unemployment rate in Germany. The "new economy" (with the exception of some entertainment industry in Koln) like high-tech, start-ups, or private equity and venture capital are in Munich or even Hamburg and Berlin. Not without a reason Lufthansa started their "low cost long haul" out of CGN and not out of MUC, for instance. The advantage of DUS is its enormous catchment area (at least for long haul) which is easily +20 million people. 17 million people alone live in North Rhine-Westphalia, so that is more than the Netherlands.

factsonly · Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:03 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 9):
17 million people alone live in North Rhine-Westphalia, so that is more than the Netherlands.

Let's get our facts straight:

- Rhein Ruhr Area Population - Nordrhein-Westfalen has: 11,316,429 inhabitants

- The Netherlands has: 16.967.308 inhabitants.

Source:

http://www.it.nrw.de/statistik/a/dat...ichebevoelkerungszahlen/index.html

www.cbs.nl

PlaneHunter · Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:07 pm

Quoting 330lover (Reply 8):
Does this mean LH will base an A346 in DUS, or will it be a W-pattern like MUC-EWR-DUS-EWR-MUC (or FRA i.s.o. MUC)?

W pattern by MUC-based planes.

PH

SCQ83 · Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:41 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 10):
Let's get our facts straight:

- Rhein Ruhr Area Population - Nordrhein-Westfalen has: 11,316,429 inhabitants

- The Netherlands has: 16.967.308 inhabitants.

Source:

http://www.it.nrw.de/statistik/a/dat...ichebevoelkerungszahlen/index.html

www.cbs.nl

You and your "facts" which are even wrong. Have you ever been to DUS or you are just a bot that copy data from Google?

NRW is a region in Germany that had 17,638,098 inhabitants in 2014 according to the same source. Not to even mention that (specially for a long-haul) DUS can attract customers from other areas (notably Eastern Netherlands) as it is their closest major airport with long-haul services.

vfw614 · Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:50 pm

Just go to any of the parking garages at DUS and you will be surprised how many Dutch cars are parked.

cougar15 · Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:59 pm

It´s getting crowded now at DUS for lonhaul, ANA, EY & AB,EK (with 388s) CX and now SQ! Prices should certainly drop, hope SQ is considering this as the 2 friends from the emirates will give them a definete run for their Money. good for consumer - meaning me as I have great choices for a visit to Australia & hopefully most compeditive fares.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 13):
Just go to any of the parking garages at DUS and you will be surprised how many Dutch cars are parked.

Indeed, good for us as they are without Caravans, great Business for DUS (and no punt at my many dutch friends intended:o)
Preffered Airport of Departure for all ´close to the boarder´ dutch from the eastern parts is DUS, so the catchment area really is huge.

OO-VEG · Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:25 pm

Great news, I am still puzzled how LH will facilitate the European connections, EW is rather poor at the moment.

AWACSooner · Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:28 pm

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 5):
Well at least EWR-DUS is being upgraded to A340-600.

Really, when?

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 13):
Just go to any of the parking garages at DUS and you will be surprised how many Dutch cars are parked.

Hell, the last few months, I've seen a plethora of BELGIAN plates there too...and even a few Luxembourg ones (which is odd, since it's probably a much shorter drive to FRA, BRU or even CDG than it is to DUS.

B8887 · Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:37 pm

@awacsooner

The number of foreign cars parked at FRA is indeed impressive. Alsatian friends of mine go to Germany to do everything from catching a plane to buying groceries.

It does not surprise me to see Belgian and Luxembourgish plates in either FRA or DUS.

Many people commute daily to Luxembourg from towns far afield such as Wittlich, and pretty much everyone in LUX, works, lives or has friends or family in the neighbouring countries. The old border control post on the motorway to France was recently razed to the ground. All you see now is a small sign that says you are in another country.

As for SQ, congratulations.

Regards.

B8887

aviationaware · Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:37 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 10):
Let's get our facts straight:

- Rhein Ruhr Area Population - Nordrhein-Westfalen has: 11,316,429 inhabitants

- The Netherlands has: 16.967.308 inhabitants.

Source:

http://www.it.nrw.de/statistik/a/dat...ichebevoelkerungszahlen/index.html

www.cbs.nl

If you so boldly challenge other people's opinions with so called 'facts', you might want to take the time to assess their validity in the sense of comparability.

But you chose not to. You instead took two completely unrelated data sets that each describe completely different criteria. I have to laud you on the audacity to do that. You should consider a career in banking.

To get to the topic, it will be interesting to see how this will affect SQ's FRA flights. Both ANA and CX have felt different (especially concerning the length of the effect) negative impacts on their FRA flights upon starting DUS.

lightsaber · Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:25 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 13):

Just go to any of the parking garages at DUS and you will be surprised how many Dutch cars are parked.

I wouldn't be. A prior employer was flying teams to The Netherlands from the US, all business class, and it was always cheaper to fly them into DUS or FRA even with the rental car and hours. Sometimes it is quantity to offer just enough product at the right price point.

Lightsaber

Ytraveller · Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:45 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 16):
Really, when?

From 27MAR16.

http://airlineroute.net/2015/11/03/lh-dusewr-s16/

vfw614 · Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:36 am

The 346 really has Nothing to do with DUS, particularly increased demand. Simply the consequence of the end of the small longhaul base and the introduction of a w-pattern with a MUC-based aircraft.

LGAviation · Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:38 am

If true, truly a step forward for DUS!
Is there any chance that we might see this service extended to another US destination (as in SIN-FRA-JFK)?
IAD (UA plus it's DC)
BOS (B6 partnership)
ORD (UA)
MIA (cant't skip that in this forum)
come to mind

AWACSooner · Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:43 am

I'm kind of surprised UA hasn't started IAD or even EWR service with 757's to relieve LH of their last longhaul route. Don't get me wrong, I'd gladly fly LH over UA transatlantic, but it's just a common sense move if you take alliances into account.

vfw614 · Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:54 pm

Quoting LGAviation (Reply 22):
BOS (B6 partnership)
MIA (cant't skip that in this forum)

Unlikely, given the new CGN-BOS/FLL routes from CGN.

[Edited 2015-11-08 05:19:07]

LGAviation · Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:04 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 24):
Unlikely, given the new CGN-BOS/FLL routes from CGN.

I fail to see the connection between CGN-BOS (which is not even fully integrated *A) and a potential SQ DUS-BOS tag that would give them the opportunity to route passengers from SIN to 'B-level-East-Coast-places' via BOS and not JFK in order to not have to fill the high-yielding FRA-JFK service with connecting passengers, I believe it'd be more of a SQ-B6 thing and less of a *A coordinated launch

vfw614 · Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:22 pm

Might be. But if they want to attract some local passengers, it will be very difficult with a similar route just 30miles down the road that will be very competitively priced (and earns you status and reward miles). So ORD or IAD seem to be more liekly if a TATL tag-on is on the cards. The rumour mill is, however, suggesting that the tag-on, if any, will be DUS-MAN replacing MUC-MAN as the SIN-MUC route will become a stand-alone route.

[Edited 2015-11-08 05:24:23]

SCQ83 · Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:24 pm

SIN-DUS-IAD could be interesting. No DC connection to that area, SQ does not fly there, and it is an Star Alliance hub.

David_itl · Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:56 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 26):
if any, will be DUS-MAN replacing MUC-MAN as the SIN-MUC route will become a stand-alone route.

That would be interesting. Here are the CAA's statistics for MAN-SIN (and vice versa) - it doesn't breakdown to the MAN-MUC and MAN-SIN portions unfortunately. If you paid them, no doubt it would!

MTH 2015, 2014. change
JAN 09643 09089 +06.10%
FEB 07600 06933 +09.62%
MAR 08288 06590 +25.77%
APR 09414 09777 -03.71%
MAY 07076 06649 +06.42%
JUN 07398 07895 -06.30%
JUL 11148 09963 +11.89%
AUG 12993 11064 +17.43%
SEP 11285 09983 +13.04%
TOT 84845 77943 +08.85%

On average, it's either leaving or departing MAN with 155 passengers. Based on the 4 class 254 seater version, it's giving a seat factor of 61%. Using the 278 seater, the seat factor is 55.7%.

What are the loads like for the MUC-SIN sector as it does appear, on the face of it, that MAN is providing the bulk of passengers on this route so would be the more likely one needing to be delinked, especially when they are operating a 2 stop strategy to the major Far Eastern destinations from MAN against the one-stop offering by the ME3.

However, i won't really mind it being SIN-DUS-MAN as I've a friend who lives near Dusseldorf and this would be a better way to travel than eirther BE or EW!

[Edited 2015-11-08 06:02:30]

LGAviation · Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:02 pm

Quoting david_itl (Reply 28):
What are the loads like for the MUC-SIN sector as it does appear, on the face of it, that MAN is providing the bulk of passengers on this route so would be the more likely one needing to be delinked, especially when they are operating a 2 stop strategy to the major Far Eastern destinations from MAN against the one-stop offering by the ME3.

Disagree, SQ is the cheapest on MUC-MAN and who wouldn't choose SQ wide body over LH narrow body?
I would rather suspect that the majority of these passengers (at least in Y) might be local traffic and that MUC fills the route to SIN

vfw614 · Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:14 pm

Well, I have used MAN-MUC in the past but admittedly, the flight times are not that great/competitive. There is some local traffic. but I don't the majority of passengers. Plus, DUS-MAN is much more price competitive than MUC-MAN because of Eurowings' one-way pricing and the high frequency competition ny BE. So if SQ would keep the fares they charge on MUC-MAN-MUC, I doubt that they will attract too many punters.

David_itl · Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:02 pm

Quoting LGAviation (Reply 29):
I would rather suspect that the majority of these passengers (at least in Y) might be local traffic and that MUC fills the route to SIN

When the MAN-SIN route was non-stop, it attracted over 100,000 passengers a year.

vfw614 · Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:07 pm

Now confirmed by SQ on singaporeair.com:

09 November 2015 - Singapore Airlines To Add Düsseldorf To Route Network
Düsseldorf will become the third German city in Singapore Airlines’ route network next year, when non-stop flights are introduced from Singapore

09 November 2015 - Düsseldorf will become the third German city in Singapore Airlines’ route network next year, when non-stop flights are introduced from Singapore. Flights are to be launched on 21 July 2016 using the all-new Airbus A350-900, which will be the latest addition to the Airline’s fleet.

Subject to regulatory approval, flight SQ338 will depart Singapore on Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays at 2330hrs (local time). The return sector, operated as flight SQ337, will depart Düsseldorf on Tuesdays, Fridays and Sundays at 1130hrs (local time). SIA intends to increase frequency at a later date.

“Flights to Düsseldorf will complement our existing services to Europe, and be served by all-new Airbus A350-900s fitted with Singapore Airlines’ latest cabin products. With this addition, Singapore Airlines will serve the three largest airports in Germany, including Frankfurt and Munich,” said Singapore Airlines’ Senior Vice President Marketing Planning, Ms Lee Wen Fen.

Düsseldorf is the capital of the German state of North Rhine-Westphalia. It is the most populous of the 16 federal states in Germany, bordering Belgium and the Netherlands. In addition to being an international business, manufacturing and financial centre, it is also a leading fashion centre that is well known for trade fairs. With the new flights, Singapore Airlines will serve Germany with 38 weekly services. This includes twice-daily flights between Singapore and Frankfurt, daily flights between Frankfurt and New York, daily flights between Singapore and Munich, and daily flights between Munich and Manchester.

Customers will be able to enjoy the Airline’s latest-generation cabin products on the new A350-900 aircraft. This includes all-new Business, Premium Economy and Economy class seats, as well as the world’s most advanced in-flight entertainment system. Ticket sales for the new Düsseldorf flights will be made available for sale through our various distribution channels on a progressive basis.

Singapore Airlines has 67 A350-900s on firm order, the first of which is due for delivery early in 2016.

SQ338 SIN 2330 - 0630 DUS
Monday, Thursday, Saturday

SQ337 DUS 1130 - 0610 SIN
Tuesday, Friday, Sunday

[Edited 2015-11-09 04:15:14]

[Edited 2015-11-09 04:15:41]

seahawk · Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:18 pm

If this will work? 3 weekly frequencies on a route with such heavy competition by EY and EK.

B8887 · Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:25 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 33):
If this will work? 3 weekly frequencies on a route with such heavy competition by EY and EK.

I am sure it will. Business types that want to avoid connecting flights, plus large catchment area already discussed = success.

Regards.

B8887

vfw614 · Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 33):
If this will work? 3 weekly frequencies on a route with such heavy competition by EY and EK. .

See the press release:

Quote:
SIA intends to increase frequency at a later date.

[Edited 2015-11-09 08:31:56]

infinit · Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:39 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 32):

Yaay! SQ's first new route in about a million years!

Time to put my Krisflyer membership to good use and look up and J Saver awards :P

seahawk · Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:40 pm

Same said AA when they opened their route, or LH when they started with 3 long hauls..

jacobchoi · Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:13 pm

Somehow I get the impression they are trying to spite CX

dubaiamman243 · Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:17 am

SQ338 SIN2330 – 0630+1DUS 359 146
SQ337 DUS1130 – 0610+1SIN 359 257

behramjee · Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:56 am

The frequency increase will come once another A359 gets delivered as everyone knows operating three weekly nonstop just won't cut the mustard for SQ considering CX 4wk EK 14 AB/EY 14 and TK 14. I am happy that this route is getting served but surprised it got chosen over a higher yielding Star Hub that SQ does not operate to ie BRU

EddieDude · Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 40):
higher yielding Star Hub that SQ does not operate to ie BRU

Is it? BRU's high-yielding routes exist because Brussels attracts a lot of governmental/diplomatic traffic because of the E.U. institutions. Is there a lot of governmental and diplomatic traffic bound for Brussels originating in Singapore or Southeast Asia in general? I may have a bias, but for me DUS is quite synonymous with business traffic.

behramjee · Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:36 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 41):
Is it? BRU's high-yielding routes exist because Brussels attracts a lot of governmental/diplomatic traffic because of the E.U. institutions. Is there a lot of governmental and diplomatic traffic bound for Brussels originating in Singapore or Southeast Asia in general? I may have a bias, but for me DUS is quite synonymous with business traffic.

The facts are as follows:

In 2014, SIN-BRU saw 21,000 passengers point to point paying an average of US$ 1400 one way which means a lot of high yielding Y/J class traffic.

In comparison, SIN-DUS saw 12,000 passengers only paying US$ 1200 one way.

EddieDude · Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:41 pm

Thank you Behramjee, very interesting data.

B8887 · Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:39 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 42):
The facts are as follows:

I would add to the facts that BRU is where a large number of large companies have their European headquarters, hence the high yielding traffic.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 43):
Thank you Behramjee, very interesting data.

I second this. Very interesting stuff. Is this data publicly available?

Thanks.

Regards.

B8887

xorrygva · Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:17 pm

Interesting data indeed. What about GVA? I understand 2014 point to point passengers was higher than DUS and BRU and yield was even higher. What about SQ starting a direct service there? That would fit the network well.

behramjee · Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:00 am

Quoting xorrygva (Reply 45):
Interesting data indeed. What about GVA? I understand 2014 point to point passengers was higher than DUS and BRU and yield was even higher. What about SQ starting a direct service there? That would fit the network well.

yes you are 100% right as SIN-GVA was a much bigger point to point market than BRU and DUS. In fact SIN-GVA is more than double the size of SIN-DUS! In 2014, SIN-GVA was 29,000 pax paying US$ 1600 one way on average...excellent yields indeed.

Come to think of it, GVA demand to Austral-Asia was extremely high yielding for a long haul route with the below mentioned demand numbers:

BKK 62K
PEK 48K
NRT/HND 46K
HKG 34K
SIN 29K
PVG 25K
ICN 21K
SYD 12K
HKT 12K
MNL 11K
KUL 11K
CGK 11K
DPS 10K
SGN 10K
MEL 9K

Judging by the above numbers, both CX and SQ can easily sustain a 4 weekly A359 service to the city nonstop from their respective hub airports.

Viscount724 · Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting behramjee (Reply 46):
Quoting xorrygva (Reply 45):
Interesting data indeed. What about GVA? I understand 2014 point to point passengers was higher than DUS and BRU and yield was even higher. What about SQ starting a direct service there? That would fit the network well.

yes you are 100% right as SIN-GVA was a much bigger point to point market than BRU and DUS. In fact SIN-GVA is more than double the size of SIN-DUS! In 2014, SIN-GVA was 29,000 pax paying US$ 1600 one way on average...excellent yields indeed.

Come to think of it, GVA demand to Austral-Asia was extremely high yielding for a long haul route with the below mentioned demand numbers:

GVA isn't a big enough market for daily nonstop service which the premium business market needs, and SIN is largely a business market, not leisure. And massive competition via many other gateways, especially EK/EK/QR. If there was enough demand for nonstop service from GVA to Asia, there would be more service than CA's 3 weekly GVA-PEK A330s.

xorrygva · Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:25 am

I believe that PEK and SIN/HKG are very different markets (CA flies GVA-PEK 4x weekly in Summer and should be soon increased to 5x). PEK is much more Gov and leisure driven with lower yield.
A 5x weekly service to SIN would be sufficient for business needs, probably no need to go daily.

Other option would be to extend the service to the US (BOS, MIA, etc), then service could be increased.

Competition from The MEB3 is high everywhere now, DUS, BRU or ZRH included. But this is correct that EK and EY are taking big market share now. Time for LX, SQ or CX to come before it's too late.

Thanks for the data behramjee!

[Edited 2015-11-10 22:33:25]

vfw614 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:05 am

Apparently the frequency will be ramped up to 5/7 as soon as possible (i.e. before the end of 2016), subject to the build-up of the A350 fleet

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