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Airbus747
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:37 pm

Still sad though.

Still sad that the world is in such deep conflict.

Still sad there are people among us, here in the West, who would not hesitate to blow up the people they grew up with because they have slightly different beliefs.

I know this is a non-technical question, but supposing a 90% chance this whole news was caused by Islamic fanatics, what is it that could prevent it from happening, I mean the root cause: is it too much immigration? Is it too much diversity in a free world? Lack of education?

I used to want to become a pilot and used to fly so much but since 9/11 and a few subsequent incidents I have flown less and less. While I still enjoy aviation and follow everything about it, go to every airshow and sometimes sit under the flight paths near airports, I haven't stepped on a plane since 2009.

Maybe there's no one off solution to all problems... But maybe there is a common thread?

Sorry if this is a bit generic, but I think the souls who lost their lives deserve some thought. Like the air crash investigators review air travel safety and technology improvements after major incidents, maybe also the broader society needs to start thinking about what went wrong and what needs to improve, and we are part of that society. We, the A-netters!

[Edited 2015-11-12 15:39:23]
 
Backseater
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:46 am

Russian Federal Security Service: a bomb caused the A321 to crash in the Sinai.
Pres. Putin seems to agree.
 
Brewfangrb
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:54 am

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 100):
I haven't stepped on a plane since 2009.

Like, purposely? That is, specifically because of the risk? Or you have a different job that requires less travel, you just aren't as interested in traveling on vacation, etc?

If it's the former, it's hard to make sense of that, to be honest.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:56 am

It was a bomb, now confirmed:

Quote:

The Russian plane crash in Sinai, Egypt, was caused by a terrorist attack as traces of explosives have been found in the wreckage of the plane, Federal Security Service director Aleksandr Bortnikov told President Vladimir Putin.

“We can say that that [Sinai plane crash] was a terror act,” Bortnikov told Putin. According to the FSB chief, experts analyzed passengers’ belongings as well as the parts of the plane.

“During the flight, a homemade device with the power of 1.5 kilograms of TNT was detonated. As a result, the plane fell apart in the air, which can be explained by the huge scattering of the fuselage parts of the plane,” he added.

Source
http://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/666535653623115776
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wjcandee
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:58 am

Quoting BackSeater (Reply 101):

Russian Federal Security Service: a bomb caused the A321 to crash in the Sinai.
Pres. Putin seems to agree.

Yep. NY Daily News quotes RT on this.

The problem of course is that this investigation has turned into the cluster/s-show that I had really hoped these countries would man up and avoid. We are so lucky to have nonpartisan agencies like the BEA, AAIB, NTSB, JTSB, TSB, etc., handling so many of these events that we get used to an orderly processing and publicizing of immediately-known facts, a preliminary report or reports, and a final report after a public hearing. Even when criminality is suspected, the public is given an idea of what's up. There are always some leaks, but there are real sources, on the record, backed up by real evidence.

Here we're getting just some conclusory statements from a Russian official who might or might not be accurate. Sure, what we know seems consistent with what he is saying, but I really miss having something more scientific than "we found traces of explosives and -- LOOK -- there was big debris field!!" The international politics are so complicated, I have no idea what conclusion would seem to be best for Russia, and it may not be apparent to those of us outside of the inner circle there. Does this conclusion give Mr. Putin some excuse to take some action he wants cover to take? Or has he told his people to be transparent and upfront and let the facts take them wherever the go? We just can't know.
 
tu204
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:19 am

Seems the FSB wanted to be 100% sure before making any official statements.

Also the FSB is offering 50 million US Dollars for information that will lead to the capture of those responsible, and President Putin said that we will bet these bastards wherever they are.
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:22 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 103):
It was a bomb, now confirmed:

It's too bad to hear that our worst fears have been confirmed with respect to this, what has now been established was yet another tragic mass murder. I'm worried sick about their families all over again now that they know this was no accident that in the future could somehow be avoided due to their relatives being lost, but was instead a cowardly act of war.

Best,

OMP777X
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eielef
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:32 am

When was the last time a plane was bombed? Lockerbie?
I hope they find the responsables soon.
 
dubaiamman243
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:37 am

Russia confirms a 2-pound bomb brought down Metrojet A321
The next airline CEO :crossfingers:
 
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GlenP
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:41 am

Although not mentioned uptrend, as yet, just in case anyone's come across the Reuters report of 2 SSH airport workers being detained, this has been denied by the Egyptian Interior Ministry.

The denial can be found here:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/168883.aspx

Also of note is that Egypt has agreed to the participation of NTSB investigators in the investigation:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCont...ipation-of-US-specialists-in-.aspx
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ltbewr
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:42 am

Some news reports in the USA are stating that 2 persons who worked at the departure airport have been arrested by Egyptian police for allegedly being involved with placing a bomb on the flight.
 
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GlenP
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:56 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 112):
Some news reports in the USA are stating that 2 persons who worked at the departure airport have been arrested by Egyptian police for allegedly being involved with placing a bomb on the flight.

Sorry, but you seem to have just missed the denial of these reports by the Egyptian Interior Ministry
Ubique Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt
 
ALAfly
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:02 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 112):

I got that news too. If so they should be handed out to Russia and put lifetime prison in Siberia (one way).

But really shoking that something can happen. Nevermind if its in Egypt, Africa or other countrys. There are changes to be done.
 
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GlenP
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:11 pm

The report of two airport employees being arresteed has also been denied by Vladimir Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, according to the Sputnik news agency.

Reuters appear to have got it wrong in this case, so there is nobody to hand over or send to Siberia; although it is likely that, should anyone be arrested & brought tot trial, an Egyptian military court will be as tough, if not tougher, than any to be found in Russia.
Ubique Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt
 
eielef
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:20 pm

The reward, according to some sources, is 50 million of Rubbles (which is around 900.000 U$D).
Anyway, i don't believe Russia will hide information on this attack, mostly because it killed Russian citizens.
 
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:25 pm

Quoting eielef (Reply 135):
i don't believe Russia will hide information on this attack, mostly because it killed Russian citizens.

I don't believe they could; there too many other international investigators involved in assimilating and examining the evidence.
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:54 pm

Quoting tu204
[quote=Kaiarahi
(Reply 138):

Sorry, but focus on the thread please. We all and I have my opinion about this. Now heavy cause many lost there loved
ones. Simply need justice on this to those that are responsable. Time for those will come.
 
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Airbus747
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:36 pm

I knew it. We all knew it.

Time to wipe out the vermin from the Middle East, finally. I can see nice reports about TU95, TU22 and TU160s taking off.
https://www.rt.com/news/322436-russia-strikes-syria-putin/
 
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Airbus747
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:37 pm

Interesting though how most of the media now is mainly focused on Paris, despite the death toll being much lower from the airplane terror attack.
 
bcworld
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:48 pm

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 118):

Interesting though how most of the media now is mainly focused on Paris, despite the death toll being much lower from the airplane terror attack.

There haven't even been 20 posts on this topic on A.net in the half a day since this latest development, so it seems A.net has pretty much moved on too!
 
eielef
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:53 pm

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 118):
Interesting though how most of the media now is mainly focused on Paris, despite the death toll being much lower from the airplane terror attack.

I deeply agree with you. Between

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 100):

And

Quoting BackSeater (Reply 101):

They were 4 days and 11 hours without even a post.
In my field of studies, i like reading the press silences. It tells you much more than the newspaper itself..
Like for instance, there haven't been any news from MH17 since October when the final report was released by the Dutch authorities. No comments, whatsoever. And less information even from MH370. At one point, they said they have traced a part close to RUN, and that was confirmed by authorities. It's been a few months already, nothing else? No progress? There was also a rumor in Philippines but this was proven to be a fake lead.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:17 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 120):

Regarding to few posts on this thread or loosing intrest. I for example was waiting for definitive statements of the authorities regarding the cause of the crash, that is not accelerated by hectic postings everywhere with conspiracy theories on every corner.
After the information about a breakup in the air, a bomb was the most likely cause with has now been confirmed.
 
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:30 am

Quoting eielef (Reply 120):
And less information even from MH370. At one point, they said they have traced a part close to RUN, and that was confirmed by authorities. It's been a few months already, nothing else? No progress? There was also a rumor in Philippines but this was proven to be a fake lead.

If you google MH370 news you will see articles regarding the search progress, issues with the search and articles about other aspects appear every few days. There were a few good articles published on the net last week. Google is your friend. Just because MH370 no longer makes headlines on the TV doesn't mean that there is a full blown press silence. Regardling MH17, apart from still not knowing which individual pressed the button and why, which we will never know, it's pretty much case closed - we have wreckage and we have a cause - a BUK.
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2175301
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:20 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 122):
Regardling MH17, apart from still not knowing which individual pressed the button and why, which we will never know, it's pretty much case closed - we have wreckage and we have a cause - a BUK.

It is actually more detailed than that. We have the shrapnel from the BUK warhead recovered from MH17 which allows identification of exactly which model warhead it was, and by extension which model BUK it was. That really nails the coffin on where the BUK came from. It also eliminates any possibility of any air to air missile having shot down MH17.

I doubt we will ever get anything so precise on the Kolavia A321

Have a great day,
 
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777Jet
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:52 am

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 123):
That really nails the coffin on where the BUK came from.

So then who actually pressed the button and why?

Quoting 2175301 (Reply 123):
It is actually more detailed than that.

The answers to the above questions are the details that a lot of people would like to know, so unless the well known analysis of the shrapnel can tell us exactly that, there are still some very important details missing. Yes, it's nice to know which type of BUK it was, what the warhead model was, who usually has them, where it was likely launched from, but... we still want to know exactly who did it and why. Until those details come out, and I'm pretty sure they never will, almost everything else about MH17 is known so there is not really any more news to come out (in relation to 'press silences' mentioned in reply 120).
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2175301
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:09 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 124):
The answers to the above questions are the details that a lot of people would like to know, so unless the well known analysis of the shrapnel can tell us exactly that, there are still some very important details missing. Yes, it's nice to know which type of BUK it was, what the warhead model was, who usually has them, where it was likely launched from, but... we still want to know exactly who did it and why. Until those details come out, and I'm pretty sure they never will,

The Dutch Safety Board report on the crash of MH17 has the details on the recovered shrapnel which IDs the type of warhead and BUK missile Model and also the plausible launch zone area. The report is not to assign blame, so it stops there. However, there is a separate Dutch criminal investigation which will likely assign blame and answer your most of your remaining questions to a good degree. I am fairly certain that they can really nail which country the BUK missile came from, and which one it did not; which is enough given that these are military weapons. Exactly which person pressed the button will not matter once that is released.

Have a great day,
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:12 am

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 117):

I knew it. We all knew it.

Time to wipe out the vermin from the Middle East, finally. I can see nice reports about TU95, TU22 and TU160s taking off.
http://www.rt.com/news/322436-russia-strikes-syria-putin/

Wow, the Russians and the French are really ramping up the campaign now:

- 37 more aircraft added to the strike group including SU-34 and SU-27 fighter bombers
- 25 long range TU-160, TU-22 and TU-95 strategic bombers have started flying sorties out of Russia
- 26 cruise missiles fired by the Russian Kaspian naval fleet
- 2,300 sorties flown in the last 48 days by Russian strike group, 65 of them on Tuesday alone
- 10 satellites collecting data on targets in Syria, some civilian that have been repurposed from civilian use.
- French aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle with 26 strike aircraft moving towards Syria
- Putin tells naval commanders of the Moskva cruiser stationed in the Russian naval base of Latakia to treat the French as allies and establish direct lines with the Charles de Gaulle carrier.
- This has allowed Syrian forces, Iranian forces and Hezbollah to move on the offensive and liberate more than 40 settlements in the Aleppo region alone.
- And then you have the US campaign in addition to all of this, mainly focusing on the Iraqi side of the border as far as I understand.

Interesting video of the strategic bombers in that link too. It's satisfying to watch the Russians beat the crap out of Daesh, at the same time it scares me to see how effective the Russians are when determined.

It wasn't really a surprise that it was a bomb that brought down the aircraft, myself and many others suspected it. It's good to get confirmation, even though it is really tragic.
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:41 am

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 127):
I wonder though - would there be too much collateral damage/casualties if they dropped something more powerful, like a mini-nuke?

Just wondering, cause I didn't expect it would take weeks or even months (US...) to wipe out a terrorist group.

A nuclear strike, even a small tactical one would have so many drawbacks. First and foremost it would create an uproar in the international community. Secondly it would cause a lot of collateral damage and radioactive fallout which means the area would not be habitable for a long time. And it would take many nukes, the IS controlled areas are huge. Nuclear weapons are really excellent for one thing; MAD. Mutually Assured Destruction. They are probably the only reason we have not seen WW3 yet.

IS is a lot more than a terrorist group, it has a semi-functioning government, a lot of wealth from oil, smuggling, stolen gold etc, and they have massive amounts of captured military equipment. It's more like fighting an insane rogue state than a simple terrorist group. It's Taliban on steroids. I believe the US could get rid of IS within a short period of time, but it would take an "all-in" approach with boots on the ground. And Russia has major interests in Syria, including a big Navy base. The US public seems tired of fighting wars in the Middle East with no end, understandably. It's really a complex topic.

But let's not stray too far from the topic of this thread.

[Edited 2015-11-18 01:44:07]
 
WIederling
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:23 am

Wonder where the infatuation with bombings stems from.

It's been a regular feature of US politics to bomb, notice
that it is ineffective then cycling through a succession of
increase bomb size and dropped volume for no increase
in reaching objectives.

Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Irak now Syria come to mind.

Is it just for the childish fun of having a nice fireworks display?

What about doing a cortical pause and actually thinking
about what to achieve and what assets could be effective
here?
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Airbus747
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:43 am

Quoting WIederling (Reply 130):

Well, what else could work?
 
lancelot07
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:46 am

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 131):
Well, what else could work?

Invasion. But of course, this puts your own soldiers at risk.
And then, there is isolation. Build a wall around the area, let nobody in and nobody out.
 
WIederling
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:04 am

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 132):
Invasion. But of course, this puts your own soldiers at risk.
And then, there is isolation. Build a wall around the area, let nobody in and nobody out.

RA Heinlein: you don't have control of a place before you can place
a young soldier with a rifle on the ground there uncontested.

The Combo of RF and Syria's Army are going for that at the moment.

Not even the Israeli Apartheid regime is able to effect a "Coventry mode"
on Palestine ( neither Gaza nor WestBank ).
Killing off leaders only turns it into a more festering wound.

Then you need legitimated leaders on the opposing side.
( one of the more prominent reasons why Nazi Germany submitted
and Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria did not or will not. actually could not/can not ..)

If you remove the established leadership before you have
a peace accord there is nobody to officially submit.
thus the US and its minions never left the unlawful occupier position.

Killing off leaders only turns it into a more festering wound.
for today: removing Assad is the ultimately dumb idea ever.
Murphy is an optimist
 
lancelot07
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:43 am

Quoting WIederling (Reply 133):
( one of the more prominent reasons why Nazi Germany submitted
and Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria did not or will not. actually could not/can not ..)

That is not completely right. Nazi-Germany capitulated when its army was destroyed, millions dead, the cities a heap of rubble, the infrastructure gone, and food no longer available.
For a large part the same goes for Japan. People just knew they were convincingly beaten.

Now compare that with Iraq after the last war, or Syria, or Lybia now. Or indeed Germany after WW I.
No convincing defeat for ordinary people, all kinds of weird legends - and no end to the trouble.

Quoting WIederling (Reply 133):
Killing off leaders only turns it into a more festering wound.
for today: removing Assad is the ultimately dumb idea ever.

It didn't with Hitler and his cronies.
Saddam Hussein, Muamar Ghaddafi and the Assads - they all sponsored terrorists. Letting them in power would have been a bad idea, just as bad as letting be Hitler and his party in power.
 
WIederling
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:02 pm

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 134):
It didn't with Hitler and his cronies.
Saddam Hussein, Muamar Ghaddafi and the Assads - they all sponsored terrorists. Letting them in power would have been a bad idea, just as bad as letting be Hitler and his party in power.

You are right on WWI specifics.
Together with the Versailles Treaty conditions the next large conflict was seeded then.
Situation after WWII was handled significantly different ( and a vastly different outcome ) but IMU not due to having learnt anything.  ... but by the urgent need of needing new allies.)

There was the provisional government headed by Admiral Doenitz residing in Flensburg that signed the papers.

There are enough terrorist sponsoring leaders around were this constitutes no problem at all. Actually "best friends".
Thus a void argument.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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scbriml
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:13 pm

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 127):
I wonder though - would there be too much collateral damage/casualties if they dropped something more powerful, like a mini-nuke?

No, none at all. And no other repercussions either.     


Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 127):
Just wondering, cause I didn't expect it would take weeks or even months (US...) to wipe out a terrorist group.

And yet even our own recent history shows it's almost an impossible task.    ISIS is infinitely better financed and armed than the IRA ever was.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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lancelot07
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:47 pm

Quoting WIederling (Reply 135):
Situation after WWII was handled significantly different ( and a vastly different outcome ) but IMU not due to having learnt anything.

Learnt or not - Nazism was thoroughly discredited. No legends, no stab in the back, etc.
The sad fact is that this kind of victory is a very bloody affair, on both sides.

Quoting WIederling (Reply 135):
There are enough terrorist sponsoring leaders around were this constitutes no problem at all. Actually "best friends".
Thus a void argument.

The "best friends" may pay protection money to terrorists. But they do not provide shelter, weapons, training camps, passports, etc.
 
WIederling
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:57 pm

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 137):
The "best friends" may pay protection money to terrorists. But they do not provide shelter, weapons, training camps, passports, etc.

Didn't the US do exactly that in the last 5++ decades in a wide range of involuntary government changes
all over the world? ( Iran, the non US/CD Americas, Asia, Middle East ... )

see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...ral_Intelligence_Agency_operations

and that is only the stuff that has come to light.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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BaconButty
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:04 pm

Quoting JetBuddy (Reply 126):
Wow, the Russians and the French are really ramping up the campaign now:

"Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results."

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 127):

I wonder though - would there be too much collateral damage/casualties if they dropped something more powerful, like a mini-nuke?

Wow, you're actually sicker than the average ISIS lunatic. There's estimated to be 330,000 civilians in Raqqa (including refugees from elsewhere). And you'd slaughter them all?


Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 131):
Well, what else could work?

Lots of things that would help, though it would mean injecting ethics into western foreign policy. But what makes you think nuking Raqqa would work? It would drive millions globally into the hands of extremists and the world would burn. FFS.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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Tugger
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:57 pm

Supposedly this is what brought the plane down:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0T725Q20151118#S0LssLVl4KYZxdGb.97

Post by the terrorists who supposedly did this.

Tugg
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Acheron
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:32 pm

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 134):
Saddam Hussein, Muamar Ghaddafi and the Assads - they all sponsored terrorists. Letting them in power would have been a bad idea, just as bad as letting be Hitler and his party in power.

All countries have supported terrorism one way or another through history. Complaining about it is being a hypocrite, specially when you give money to countries like Saudi Arabia.

And your comparison falls flat on its face when you consider the geopolitical situation currently at play in the middle east which was pretty much non-existant in Europe
 
lancelot07
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:57 pm

Quoting Acheron (Reply 141):
All countries have supported terrorism one way or another through history.

Name a few!
You won't find many that equipped, trained, and sponsored terrorists attacking third countries.
And those 3 dictators were terrorists themselves, terrorizing their own people. All 3 came into power by a putsch.

Quoting Acheron (Reply 141):
And your comparison falls flat on its face when you consider the geopolitical situation currently at play in the middle east which was pretty much non-existant in Europe

Europe had the iron curtain, and a couple of thousand nuclear warheads pointed in all directions.
There is nothing special about the geopolitical situation in the middle east, even though Russian intervention does not help. Some Arabs that can't keep peace among themselves.
 
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Classa64
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:28 pm

I wonder if the Admins could get this thread back on track AGAIN, as the last posts have nothing to do with this accident. I cam here for a bit of info since I last left and the info stopped at post 125....

I think its good that Russia put up a reward, maybe something will make the facts more clearer on the How and the why. Glad also that they did not rush this Bombing info out quick but I think a lot of us including me figured that's what did it. Were there anymore thoughts on where it could have been placed? or is anywhere in the back sufficient enough to cause this amount of damage

C.

Edit; omitted a number

[Edited 2015-11-18 10:31:02]
"Freedom is the miles i'm rolling on"
 
Planeflyer
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:03 pm

Guys, for those of you involved with airport operations,assuming this was an inside job and not a failure of the baggage screening process what changes would need to be made to guard against a repeat of this type of incident?
 
lancelot07
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:17 pm

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 144):
Guys, for those of you involved with airport operations,assuming this was an inside job and not a failure of the baggage screening process what changes would need to be made to guard against a repeat of this type of incident?

I am not involved in baggage handling, but when push comes to shove, i would feel more secure if my checked bag stayed within my eyesight at all times. And I'd rather trust fellow passengers (depending on ethnic factors, of course) not to blow themselves up, than some unseen guys in the basements who don't even fly.
Still, baggage is only one aspect, the foto of the beverage can linked above leaves open other possibilities, catering e.g.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:29 pm

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 145):
i would feel more secure if my checked bag stayed within my eyesight at all times

Logistically impratical. You'd have thousands of pax traipsing through baggage rooms and out onto the ramp - which would create its own security issues.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
lancelot07
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:42 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 146):
Logistically impratical. You'd have thousands of pax traipsing through baggage rooms and out onto the ramp - which would create its own security issues.

You'd probably have first to screen baggage before entering the terminal, just in case someone wants to blow up the building with a suitcase full of explosives. But final screening could happen right at the gate.
Of course, there are issues with connecting flights.

Another possibility would be the use of reinforced containers. But i guess that there are a lot of places for a bomb on a plane outside baggage. If you can't trust airport workers, it is very difficult.
 
OMP777X
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:52 pm

Does anyone with expertise on explosives and the technology involving them want to take a guess at what kind of detonator they might have used? I'm thinking it had to be a form of pressure switch, but that's just a wild guess.

Also, I'm guessing that the TNT used here could be detectable by a bomb sniffing dog. Would it be prudent to do sweeps of the contents of catering trucks and cleaning crews equipment? What sort of security measure would possibly have been able to catch this device?
"Happy Flighting!"
 
A332DTW
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:01 pm

I'm going to say it's more than likely an airport employee planted the bomb. Theoretically speaking, the only thing that would prevent something like this is thorough screening of airport employees. This, however, would create a logistical nightmare. I don't know how things work in Egypt, but here we have AOA employees and non-AOA employees. AOA employees are not screened, as majority of them are above wing and below wing airline and vendor employees. The only exception is a random TSA security check, but even then all they really do is check your SIDA badge, rarely searching through your backpack or purse. Non-AOA employees undergo regular TSA screening.

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 127):

I wonder though - would there be too much collateral damage/casualties if they dropped something more powerful, like a mini-nuke?

What exactly is a "mini-nuke"?
 
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Tugger
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:26 pm

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 149):
What exactly is a "mini-nuke"?

I don't think there is an exact definition but in general it means a "less then 5kt" weapon, and often less than 1kt.

Here is an interesting way to visualize it:
http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

Tugg
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Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
A332DTW
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RE: Kolavia A321 Crashes In Sinai / Egypt - Part 5

Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:49 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 150):
I don't think there is an exact definition but in general it means a "less then 5kt" weapon, and often less than 1kt.

Here is an interesting way to visualize it:
http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

Interesting... and terrifying. Playing around with those different yields leaves me with the idea that dropping any type of nuke, "mini" or not, would be a terrible, terrible move.

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