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UAEflyer
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EK Starts SAW

Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:24 am

From 15 December 2015
EK119
DXB-SAW 17:15 20:15

EK120
SAW-DXB 22:05 04:20+1


Flight will be operated initially by A330-200

[Edited 2015-11-09 02:26:24]
 
vfw614
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:06 am

When was the start of QR's DOH flights? Currently, they are the only ME3 carrer serving SAW.
 
Turkish777X
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:38 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 1):


When was the start of QR's DOH flights? Currently, they are the only ME3 carrer serving SAW.

They started last year with daily and doubled afterwards to double daily service.
 
gabrielchew
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:50 am

I wonder when EY will increase Istanbul. They aren't even flying daily at the moment. The A345 I flew last week IST-AUH was pretty full.
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2travel2know2
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:58 pm

Are London and Istanbul now the only cities where EK flies to more than one airport?
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SCQ83
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 4):

They fly to HND and NRT in Tokyo.

Btw, QR airways has only one destination where they fly to three airports in the same metro area... which happens to be Dubai  ... DWC, DXB and SHJ... and AUH and Ras Al Khaimah which are not far.

[Edited 2015-11-09 07:11:34]
 
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LAXintl
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:17 pm

Interesting. Another route EK doubling up on flyDubai destination. Pegasus also ops route 6x weekly

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 3):
I wonder when EY will increase Istanbul. They aren't even flying daily at the moment.

It has to do with old bilaterals. TK is limited to AUH itself. Max authorized frequency is only 5x weekly per side
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N415XJ
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:22 pm

For a second, I thought this meant they'd start service to my hometown airport, KSAW (Saywer Airport in Michigan), and I got VERY excited!! Oh well, maybe someday...

Does this have anything to do with the fact that IST is reaching it's capacity (or so I've heard)? Or are they specifically targeting SAW?
 
a380787
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:22 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
It has to do with old bilaterals. TK is limited to AUH itself. Max authorized frequency is only 5x weekly per side

That's the thing I always wonder - does UAE negotiate bilats as a whole nation, or each state (AUH, DXB, SHJ etc) negotiate their own ?
 
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LAXintl
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:51 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 8):
That's the thing I always wonder - does UAE negotiate bilats as a whole nation, or each state (AUH, DXB, SHJ etc) negotiate their own ?

Today the UAE General Civil Aviation Authority is in charge of unified agreements, however in cases of non fully open-skies agreements there are often still designations per airport/Emirate, or an internal frequency allocation award for limited number of rights (think Canada).

In the past each Emirate pursued their own policies which explains the existing patch work agreements still lingering out there.
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a380787
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:56 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):

Today the UAE General Civil Aviation Authority is in charge of unified agreements, however in cases of non fully open-skies agreements there are often still designations per airport/Emirate, or an internal frequency allocation award for limited number of rights (think Canada).

In the past each Emirate pursued their own policies which explains the existing patch work agreements still lingering out there.

Ahhh thanks for the clarification. Speaking of this types of states, does Scotland (or Wales) have any rights to negotiate their own bilat (in the sense that is UK 1 nation or 4 countries) ?
 
dubaiamman243
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:43 pm

Why the late announcement?
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Humberside
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:20 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 10):
Speaking of this types of states, does Scotland (or Wales) have any rights to negotiate their own bilat (in the sense that is UK 1 nation or 4 countries) ?

Everything is done at UK or EU level
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SJOtoLIR
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:36 am

I'm still puzzled about the dual service to both IST and SAW.
The [DXB-SAW] sector is attended by Pegasus and FlyDubai by means of 738 equipments.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
SCQ83
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:18 am

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 13):
I'm still puzzled about the dual service to both IST and SAW.
The [DXB-SAW] sector is attended by Pegasus and FlyDubai by means of 738 equipments.

Istanbul has a very large local market and driving from SAW to IST (crossing from Asia to Europe   ) can be madness. It is not also LHR VS LGW... much further and physically separated (in two different continents)

I assume that QR, Pegasus and Turkish expanding at SAW are one of the main reasons for EK to start this service. A few years ago, when SAW was a backyard airport, people living or going to the Asian side of Istanbul didn't have much choice but to cross to IST. Now those customers have no incentive to go to IST to fly EK (or any other airline) when there are already a number of services out of SAW (notably QR competing with EK). So it is likely EK is losing its customer base there.
 
leftyboarder
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:36 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 14):
Istanbul has a very large local market and driving from SAW to IST (crossing from Asia to Europe   ) can be madness. It is not also LHR VS LGW... much further and physically separated (in two different continents)

I assume that QR, Pegasus and Turkish expanding at SAW are one of the main reasons for EK to start this service. A few years ago, when SAW was a backyard airport, people living or going to the Asian side of Istanbul didn't have much choice but to cross to IST. Now those customers have no incentive to go to IST to fly EK (or any other airline) when there are already a number of services out of SAW (notably QR competing with EK). So it is likely EK is losing its customer base there.

Exactly. I am expecting airlines like KL, AF, LH to follow suit, as the SAW hinterland is actually almost as large as IST (not only Asian Istanbul but also Bursa, Kocaeli and Sakarya, with a combined population of more than 10,5 million people.
 
B8887
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:52 am

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 7):
For a second, I thought this meant they'd start service to my hometown airport, KSAW (Saywer Airport in Michigan), and I got VERY excited!! Oh well, maybe someday...

You never know what TC has up his sleeve. Maybe one day he'll try to open up new destinations in the Great Lakes region.

Quoting UAEflyer (Thread starter):
Flight will be operated initially by A330-200

Maybe not that good for premium travellers? Will this be oriented to leisure passengers, and/or cheaper?

Regards.

B8887
 
vv701
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:23 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 10):
Speaking of this types of states, does Scotland (or Wales) have any rights to negotiate their own bilat (in the sense that is UK 1 nation or 4 countries) ?
Quoting Humberside (Reply 12):
Everything is done at UK or EU level

Further there is a requirement under EU law that any bilateral air services agreement between an EU and non-EU state must allow flights to be operated by airlines of every EU state and not just the airlines domiciled in the two signatories of the agreement.

Consistently Russia has refused to sign such an agreement. This has left Spain, Belgium, The Netherlands and the UK amongst others in infringement of EU aviation law because they have signed bilateral agreements with the Russian Federation limiting flights between these countries and Russia to their own and Russian airlines thereby excluding, as an example, other EU states' airlines from operating LHR-DME. Russia has refused to sign any bilateral agreement conforming to this law.

This complex situation and some of the actual anf possible ramifications are described in more detail in this EU document:

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-11-167_en.htm
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:50 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 14):
Istanbul has a very large local market and driving from SAW to IST (crossing from Asia to Europe ) can be madness. It is not also LHR VS LGW... much further and physically separated (in two different continents)

I think [LHR and LGW] couldn't be fairly compared to [IST and SAW].
SAW is basically dominated by Pegasus and Turkish whereas the foreign mainline airlines are operating at IST instead.
EK is given the first step to become SAW in a larger scale, like LGW for London.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
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lightsaber
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:06 am

I'm amazed how an almost given destination for EK took so long to happen. Then again, I'm still waiting for EWR and STN.

Lightsaber
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bcworld
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:06 am

Quoting N415XJ (Reply 7):
For a second, I thought this meant they'd start service to my hometown airport, KSAW (Saywer Airport in Michigan), and I got VERY excited!!

Wouldn't be the first time this mistake was made! There is a frequent flyer program out there that for a very long time thought SAW = KSAW...it led to some very attractive miles redemptions via their online booking engine before they eventually realised what was going on!
 
N415XJ
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:44 am

Quoting bcworld (Reply 20):
There is a frequent flyer program out there that for a very long time thought SAW = KSAW

Interesting, good to know I'm not alone! I remember seeing on flightaware last summer that we apparently had an EasyJet A319 inbound at KSAW. Of course, seeing one at my airport would be a major event, so I rushed over only to be met by a completely empty airport. No U2 service yet, I guess!

Quoting B8887 (Reply 16):
You never know what TC has up his sleeve. Maybe one day he'll try to open up new destinations in the Great Lakes region.

3x daily A380s please!    That'll show Delta- they virtually have a mega-hub at KSAW with their 2 CRJ-200 flights a day!
 
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TK105
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:19 pm

This is an interesting move by EK. This can become more interesting if EK and Pegasus go in to a cooperation which has a potential to balance EK in East Europe against TK.
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B777LRF
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:39 pm

Quoting B8887 (Reply 16):
Maybe not that good for premium travellers? Will this be oriented to leisure passengers, and/or cheaper?

Plenty of enterprises on the Asian side of Istanbul. It's a 3.5-4.5 hour flight, and even the somewhat tired 2-3-2 business config on EK's 330s is still miles better than the competition from SAW.
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mercure1
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:17 pm

Story about EK opening SAW.

As to why the split operation.

“Istanbul has become an increasingly popular destination for Emirates, attracting both business and leisure travellers from around the world. By operating into two airports, we are enabling greater flexibility for our passengers, allowing them to fly into one airport and out of the other,” said Hubert Frach, Divisional Senior Vice President, Commercial – West, Emirates Airline.

Apparently local Istanbul - Dubai market demand is growing at 22.9% with 165,000 local passengers.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/...twork-with-sabiha-gokcen-operation
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stylo777
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:28 am

It is simply the answer to lack of attractive slots at IST, but a growing demand between both cities. Also bear in mind that the 2nd airport of Istanbul probably attracts for people population wise than other places EK currently flies to.

It's a good move and will certainly be a successful one.
I don't believe EY will follow.
 
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Spiderguy252
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:19 pm

How much longer are EK's 330-200s expected to remain in the fleet for? They certainly seem to be getting a little long in the tooth from the inside vs their other a/c (77W, A380)
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777way
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:50 pm

And they have dropped Bamako launch, why?
 
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lightsaber
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 25):

I agree this is to maximize the potential of possibly otherwise poor slot timing.

Quoting Spiderguy252 (Reply 26):

The A332s have a few more years, but not many. With the delay of EK's "regional" widebody order, they have been given a stay.

Lightsaber
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N1120A
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:32 pm

Up over Iran, then turn left at Tabriz to go over Turkey? Or over Saudi, Red Sea, around Sinai and then up?
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Clipper101
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:19 pm

Could be a good chance for EK to eventually introduce A380 into Turkish market ahead of any possible new-IST future operation         
 
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LAXintl
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:35 pm

Quoting Clipper101 (Reply 30):

Could be a good chance for EK to eventually introduce A380 into Turkish market ahead of any possible new-IST future operation  

A380 ops not allowed @ IST. Aircraft requires too much special procedures and creates too much commotion.
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Clipper101
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:28 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 31):

We are talking SAW, do they have same restrictions as in IST for A380 operation?
 
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LAXintl
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RE: EK Starts SAW

Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:40 pm

Quoting Clipper101 (Reply 32):
We are talking SAW, do they have same restrictions as in IST for A380 operation?

Only A380 ready airports in Turkey are Ankara and Antalya.

SAW airfield will be A380 capable once the 2nd runway happens - but that is 2+ years away still.
Also keep in mind and A380 ops at SAW will be remote parked with busing operation however.
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