oc2dc
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Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:15 pm

Today, Air Serbia announced they will be relaunching BEG-JFK flights after a 24 year hiatus. The flight is scheduled to begin in June of 2016.

Flights will be operated by a newly leased A330-200 and will start off at 5x weekly.

Sources: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/1...bia-airlines-idUKKCN0SY22820151109
https://twitter.com/airserbia?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

I'm curious to see if they will announce any codeshares for this flight with American based carriers. Best of luck to them.
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JoKeR
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:41 pm

Stupid, stupid, stupid move..... way too early (if ever the right time) for a small South European airline with (still) a weak feeder network through BEG.

Serbia (together with its future potential feeder network) has weak and highly seasonal VFR traffic to the US - 5 weekly won't attract heaps of business travelers despite the admittedly excellent on-board product.

Premature and egoistic decision. Best of luck nevertheless.
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:13 pm

Are they still planning on also launching ORD in 2016?
 
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thekorean
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:16 pm

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 1):

They have enough destinations to offer connecting service.
 
[email protected]
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:20 pm

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 1):
business travelers

I suspect there would be few such travellers anyway.
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:24 pm

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 1):
Stupid, stupid, stupid move..... way too early (if ever the right time) for a small South European airline with (still) a weak feeder network through BEG.

I was also questioning the cleverness of such move from such a small airline. Decades ago, not only did JAT served a larger country, but it also had a much different network. In addition, market conditions have so greatly changed over the last quarter century. It might even come to WOW Air starting to offer a transatlantic link between Serbia and North America.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:30 pm

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 1):
Premature and egoistic decision.

  

And unfortunately the planes will be filled with bottom of the barrel revenue VFR traffic.

Quoting thekorean (Reply 3):
They have enough destinations to offer connecting service.

Have you looked at JU's actual schedule? They hardly have much frequency to allow for robust connectivity.

JU first needs to make sure it develops a dense shorter haul network that offers multiple daily frequencies in markets before chasing after expensive longhaul dreams. Otherwise any longhaul flying would be at mercy of local BEG traffic and only haphazard random connections.
In other words JU needs to get to the place where is has a properly developed BEG hub with connection waves -- for example like OS at VIE before longhaul truly becomes viable.
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IndianicWorld
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:39 pm

Very strange move.

The logic behind it seems slightly off really, but good luck to them.
 
JoKeR
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:43 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 3):
They have enough destinations to offer connecting service.

Enough destinations - hypothetically (only), how about frequencies to support it?

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 4):
I suspect there would be few such travelers anyway.

Very few.... Balkans cannot yield many North American (especially premium) bound frequent travelers on any given day... TK, AZ, OS, LH, LX et all... will be difficult to go against them with their multiple daily frequencies and convenient connections.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 5):
Decades ago, not only did JAT served a larger country, but it also had a much different network.

Exactly. JAT had a domicile market of 25+ million. It was ranked as 10th largest airline in Europe. Those days are gone. This move is about 10 years too early IMHO.
 
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thekorean
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:45 pm

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 8):

True but at this stage I don't think they are thinking high yield passengers.

They can afford to sell at lower price than AF or BA I imagine.
 
JoKeR
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:56 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 9):
True but at this stage I don't think they are thinking high yield passengers.

They can afford to sell at lower price than AF or BA I imagine.

That is the trick - THEY CAN'T - they are not a cash rich airline - they are barely in the black - if their PR machine is to be believed... and low yielding pax will pull them in the wrong commercial and financial direction. While their overheads are lower of those at AF and BA, an A330 TATL flight still costs a small fortune - and low-yielding pax in the back will not help their shaky bottom line.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:59 pm

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 10):
an A330 TATL flight still costs a small fortune - and low-yielding pax in the back will not help their shaky bottom line.

Indeed, Malev is there, or rather was there to illustrate that.
 
CO 757-300
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:23 pm

I think it will do fine. The summer season may end up subsidizing the off-season yield wise... but i guess they should have no problem filling up Greece, Croatia, Montenegro, Romanian, Bulgarian traffic. There is a huge South Eastern Europe diaspora in NYC and many have the $$ to travel, at least once per year for VFR and holidays but further, don't under estimate the amount of decent yielding traffic, lots of property, financial/ trading / investments happening between NYC and that region due to the well established diaspora.

I think Air Serbia, with a lean enough operation, could have a good regional hub at BEG, enough to support at least an NYC flight, possibly ORD and YYZ down the line.
 
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mercure1
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:30 pm

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 10):
an A330 TATL flight still costs a small fortune - and low-yielding pax in the back will not help their shaky bottom line.

  

Quoting CO 757-300 (Reply 12):
but i guess they should have no problem filling up Greece, Croatia, Montenegro, Romanian, Bulgarian traffic.

You expect people to wait half the day or even overnight in BEG to connect?

Many JU routes are not even daily, let alone likely to even properly connect to an Atlantic service.
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ua900
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:02 am

Quoting oc2dc (Thread starter):
Flights will be operated by a newly leased A330-200 and will start off at 5x weekly.

Someone is copying AB. Who knows, maybe they're preparing for an eventual cutover...

Quoting oc2dc (Thread starter):
I'm curious to see if they will announce any codeshares for this flight with American based carriers. Best of luck to them.

Probably AA at some point. Maybe AB dba EY can sponsor them.

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 2):
Are they still planning on also launching ORD in 2016?

Would make sense, keep emulating AB's U.S. network.

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 4):
I suspect there would be few such travellers anyway.

Lots of promotions for C cabin recently. It's not very attractive to backtrack from Germany via BEG, but perhaps it's more attractive in SE Europe provided people can stomach the connection times.

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 10):
That is the trick - THEY CAN'T - they are not a cash rich airline - they are barely in the black

Good news, they don't have to be. They have a financier in form of EY. Are they the devil in disguise? Perhaps, but it'll do for now. It's fairly clear they're chasing market share from OS with that sort of move. Doubt they can get much market share from the likes of W6, but still better to have someone like JU than to have a future MA like FB or RO. For smaller national carriers to survive in Europe, they have to scale, merge, get subsidized indefinitely or die.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 11):
Indeed, Malev is there, or rather was there to illustrate that.

Yeah, except MA didn't have EY financing. If you're looking for who's in that league in the present tense, try LO, FB or RO.
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lesfalls
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:03 pm

Seems like that their Codeshare with AB didn't get aproved from the DOT.
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Freshside3
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:07 pm

Quoting CO 757-300 (Reply 12):
I think it will do fine. The summer season may end up subsidizing the off-season yield wise... but i guess they should have no problem filling up Greece, Croatia, Montenegro, Romanian, Bulgarian traffic. There is a huge South Eastern Europe diaspora in NYC and many have the $$ to travel, at least once per year for VFR and holidays but further, don't under estimate the amount of decent yielding traffic, lots of property, financial/ trading / investments happening between NYC and that region due to the well established diaspora.

I think Air Serbia, with a lean enough operation, could have a good regional hub at BEG, enough to support at least an NYC flight, possibly ORD and YYZ down the line.

I think it would do fine, too. But I also believe that they will find that ORD-BEG will actually do better financially, than JFK-BEG.
 
flycro
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:39 pm

What a waste of money. Serbian tax payers to subsidise a glory route.
 
flyboy_se
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:18 am

A lot of negativity about a new route by somewhat exotic carrier ( to some) in an aviation forum. I think we should focus to be happy for a new route instead of dismissing it even before it started. Sure it may not make sense to some, but i am sure they did do their homework. JU of today is not JU of 10 years ago. BEG today is not BEG of 10 years ago. Serbia today is not Serbia of 10 years ago...etc. Also since the route is announced for June 2016, plenty of time to realign the schedules to make smooth connections to the regional network. Allthough not excessive ammount, but there is a fair share of people who would pay more to fly non stop instead of connecting in VIE/FRA/MUC etc.
Let us wait and see, but i have a good feeling about this one.
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ua900
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:59 am

Quoting flyboy_se (Reply 18):
A lot of negativity about a new route by somewhat exotic carrier ( to some) in an aviation forum. I think we should focus to be happy for a new route instead of dismissing it even before it started.

   Best of luck to JU
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:03 pm

Quoting flyboy_se (Reply 18):
A lot of negativity about a new route by somewhat exotic carrier ( to some) in an aviation forum. I think we should focus to be happy for a new route instead of dismissing it even before it started.

Since it's a forum, it's a place where people exchange views. However I think this thread shows how this forum has evolved over the years. I don't know whether it's good or bad, but I think it also shows how commercial aviation has changed during the last 15-20 years with the arrival of U2, FR, EK, EY, QR and probably others as well.
 
SR4ever
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:17 pm

A 321 LR with longhaul cabins would have been wiser.

I would have expected PEK or PVG to be opened earlier than JFK...
 
dhr
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:22 pm

First they have to get DOT approval which might not go so smooth if its anything to go by last years trouble with code-share approvals with Etihad.
 
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Polot
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:32 pm

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 21):

An A321LR can't make it to the US from BEG without some large weight restrictions, and this is a route that will be filled primarily with VFR traffic, not business traffic, which makes a less dense cabin a no go.
 
dhr
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:21 pm

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 15):

Is there a link to their DOC application?
 
SKAirbus
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:19 pm

I reckon this is all EY's doing. Trying to resurrect a legacy prestige route. To be fair with all their state subsidies (EY) and free fuel, they don't have much to lose...

Maybe it will provide cheap connections from other European destinations.
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lesfalls
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting dhr (Reply 24):

This is all I could find:

http://airlineroute.net/2015/08/07/juab-codeshare-app/

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 25):

Since EY bought AZ prices were the same price and wernt lowered (AB's prices actually went up) so JU will probably be cheap at first but in the long run it won't.
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LAXintl
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:02 pm

There wont be any issues with the US DOT.
Its a strait forward route between two nations especially now that US and Serbia have their air-service agreement in place.
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Freshside3
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:03 am

Quoting flyboy_se (Reply 18):
Allthough not excessive ammount, but there is a fair share of people who would pay more to fly non stop instead of connecting in VIE/FRA/MUC etc.
Let us wait and see, but i have a good feeling about this one.

Even on the one-stop routes, BEG would be more attractive than other connection cities. Most of the way there for those going SOF/SKG/TIA, etc. with only one hour left to go. A less crowded connecting airport. Plus the fact you don't have to pay the hideous departure taxes that LHR has.
 
rutankrd
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:14 am

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 28):
. Plus the fact you don't have to pay the hideous departure taxes that LHR has

Transit passengers don't pay the UK ADP going via xxx-LHR- xxx unless they "enter" the UK.

Good luck to Air Serbia.

Quoting flycro (Reply 17):

What a waste of money. Serbian tax payers to subsidise a glory route.

The money and aircraft will be coming from the sandpit - The Serbian state may actually get a dividend !

So long as ASL remain outside of the three mage alliances i think they will do okay.

The 3 Alliances really don't work in the interests of the smaller niche player, just the opposite in fact.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:22 am

Quoting Freshside3 (Reply 28):
Even on the one-stop routes, BEG would be more attractive than other connection cities. Most of the way there for those going SOF/SKG/TIA, etc. with only one hour left to go. A less crowded connecting airport. Plus the fact you don't have to pay the hideous departure taxes that LHR has.

I agree. I don't understand this negativity. It is not an odd venture (like that SkyGreece) since it is backed by Etihad.

Also, Serbia has nearby countries (notably Romania and Bulgaria) that have no non-stop links to the US. So flying US-Romania is not about non-stop VS 1-stop... it is about where to connect. And there Air Serbia can be perfectly competitive.
 
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cougar15
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:49 am

Quoting flycro (Reply 17):
What a waste of money. Serbian tax payers to subsidise a glory route.

EY will give them plenty of feed. Budget concious J and Y travellers will accept an extra stop. heck, I fly to Australia from FRA with EY all the time. EY gets me to Phuket and then I join virgin australia for the last sector. the J flights are always up to 1000 Euro cheaper due to the extra stop, and me as an avgeek sure dont mind the routing.
EY does a lot of this sort of Thing with their Partners and I expect this will be no different.
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SCQ83
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:00 am

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 31):
EY will give them plenty of feed. Budget concious J and Y travellers will accept an extra stop. heck, I fly to Australia from FRA with EY all the time. EY gets me to Phuket and then I join virgin australia for the last sector. the J flights are always up to 1000 Euro cheaper due to the extra stop, and me as an avgeek sure dont mind the routing.
EY does a lot of this sort of Thing with their Partners and I expect this will be no different.

Not everybody lives in Frankfurt, so for someone heading to Bucharest, Sofia or Thessaloniki, changing planes in Belgrade VS Frankfurt to go to New York is not an inconvenience nor an extra stop. I don't get how that very basic concept is so hard to understand in this forum.
 
gabrielchew
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:14 am

Will this flight eventually just become a JFK-AUH flight, that happens to have a stop in BEG? Like EKs DXB-MXP-JFK? If so, it probably isn't too much of a gamble. EY can put their low yielding JFK pax onto this. The fact that it is 2 different flight numbers, and two different planes is neither here nor there for most economy passengers.
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LJ
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:54 am

Quoting oc2dc (Thread starter):
Flights will be operated by a newly leased A330-200 and will start off at 5x weekly.

Leased from whom?

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 1):
Serbia (together with its future potential feeder network) has weak and highly seasonal VFR traffic to the US - 5 weekly won't attract heaps of business travelers despite the admittedly excellent on-board product.

Do we even know what kind of product (hard and soft) they'll be offering? Though it would be logical that it will be ex-EY A330s, I wonder if the current EY A332 layout is workable for JU.

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 31):
Budget concious J and Y travellers will accept an extra stop.

However, these don't make your flight profitable (especially not in the EY A332 lay out).

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 31):
EY will give them plenty of feed.

They also have AZ for this part of Europe.

BTW do we know the schedules? I would huess that block time for such a flight would be around 17 hours leaving 7 hours on the ground at both BEG and JFK and as such around 3 hours for catching up on delays.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 32):
Not everybody lives in Frankfurt, so for someone heading to Bucharest, Sofia or Thessaloniki, changing planes in Belgrade VS Frankfurt to go to New York is not an inconvenience nor an extra stop.

It will depend on the schedule (which hasn't made public as far as I know) if it's an inconvenience. If schedules via CDG, FRA, VIE, PRG or FCO are better, than JU will end up with the pax who fly JU for money or those who just want to fly Air Serbia (won't be surprised if this is a group as well).
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Official: JU To Launch BEG-JFK June 2016

Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:39 am

Quoting oc2dc (Thread starter):
Air Serbia announced they will be relaunching BEG-JFK flights after a 24 year hiatus

If [BEG-JFK] is capable to work profitably in the future, the opening of more sectors like [OTP-JFK] may follow a similar behavior.
This flight may demonstrate if the east part of Europe is prepared for that venture.

Regards.
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