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Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:59 pm

The Senior senator from Florida is not happy with NK & F9's new holiday baggage fees.   

http://roadwarriorvoices.com/2015/11...extra-bag-fees-for-holiday-travel/

Spirit and Frontier are defending the extra fees, arguing that at least they are up front and transparent about the practice, implying that perhaps the other carriers are just sneaking the same surcharges into ticket prices without telling consumers

http://roadwarriorvoices.com/2015/11...ier-halt-the-holiday-baggage-fees/


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nkops
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:01 pm

I guess he will have to get over it, because I don't see NK or F9 changing the policy because he is unhappy...
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a380787
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:06 pm

Gotta love these politicians. They call out the legacies for high fares and call out the LCCs for high fees.

Maybe what he wants is low fares, low/no fees, overly aggressive competition, and airlines cycling through the BK court every 5 years.
 
Logos
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:09 pm

This isn't new. He was on local news about this roughly a month ago. Typical Bill Nelson demagoguery - any excuse to get in front of a camera. It would seem Democrats like nothing less than the free market. Don't like it, don't fly them.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
stlgph
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:11 pm

And yet hotels do this all the time.
Womp womp.
Get over it, Bill.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
winginit
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:32 pm

and here I thought this industry was deregulated...

supply and demand ring any bells Senator? No?

[Edited 2015-11-10 12:33:28]
 
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moo
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:35 pm

"Sneaking" the charges into the fare is exactly what airlines should be doing - not advertising one fare and then expecting people to work out what the final cost is likely to be after all fees are added....
 
flyguy89
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:44 pm

Don't you have anything better to do, Senator?  
Quoting moo (Reply 6):

"Sneaking" the charges into the fare is exactly what airlines should be doing - not advertising one fare and then expecting people to work out what the final cost is likely to be after all fees are added....

Why? I don't use all of the services some airlines "sneak" into the fare, I'd like the choice to have them stripped out. Do you think consumers are too dumb to do the math themselves?
 
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adamblang
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:00 pm

There is no "sneaking" when the DOT requires all air carriers operating in/to/from/through the U.S. to put right on the home page a link to every single fee a person could be charged and under what circumstances. The only people who are surprised by airline fees are the willfully ignorant.
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moo
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:19 pm

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 7):
Why? I don't use all of the services some airlines "sneak" into the fare, I'd like the choice to have them stripped out. Do you think consumers are too dumb to do the math themselves?

If its a voluntary addon, then fair enough, but "fuel surcharges" et al should be in the base fare.

And yes, I do think that the majority of consumers are too dumb to do the math themselves - that is afterall why we have laws restricting advertising and pricing claims in the first place....
 
flymia
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:38 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 9):
If its a voluntary addon, then fair enough, but "fuel surcharges" et al should be in the base fare.

Any non-voluntary add on is in the fare. Taxes, surcharges service charges etc.. They are all in the base fare, and its federal law to make sure it is like that.

Want to pick your seat, bring a big bag, etc.. those are not in the base. And people are made aware of them before buying the ticket.

I don't fly NK much, but there is nothing wrong with how they do business.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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adamblang
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:33 pm

Quoting moo (Reply 9):
If its a voluntary addon, then fair enough, but "fuel surcharges" et al should be in the base fare.

While fuel surcharges often aren't in the base fare, every advertised price for airlines doing business in/to/from/through the U.S. displays the all-in price up front. There are no gotchas on mandatory charges for carriers under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Department of Transportation. (Or, when there are, the DOT whacks them with appropriate fines.) Legally speaking, there should never be an instance where you see $200 in an advertisement or at the beginning of shopping and $400 for that exact same ticket at the end.
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CaliAtenza
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:52 am

Glad I avoided F9 for my trip to Austin next week. Decided to try VX.
 
alphaomega
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:56 am

same old story...if you don't like their fees, then don't fly them. how is this news?

side note - what would the thinking be to actually charge a $2 fee vs just increasing the fare by $2?
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:00 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 2):
Gotta love these politicians. They call out the legacies for high fares and call out the LCCs for high fees.

They'd campaign against bad weather and traffic if they thought pandering to their constituents on those issues would equal votes. Politicians these days remind me of Jerry Seinfeld (and every other comedian) doing the "So, hey - rental car companies. Whaaaat's the deeeeal?" bit where they complain about something everyone dislikes, trivializing them and acting as if they're smarter than everyone else in the room.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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mariner
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:17 am

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 12):
Glad I avoided F9 for my trip to Austin next week. Decided to try VX.

There you go. It's called choice.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
airlinewatcher1
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:31 am

"These increased surcharges fly in the face of declining fuel costs and appear focused on increasing profitability on the backs of American families. If your company does plan to impose holiday surcharges, I request that you rescind those plans immediately.”

PREACH!

It's about time somebody in power takes these airlines to task! Because we all know that CEO's can do no wrong.

[Edited 2015-11-10 17:32:05]
 
MD88CLE
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:34 am

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 7):
Do you think consumers are too dumb to do the math themselves?

No, I think they may not be well-informed enough (and perhaps be too lazy) to realize the difference. Not that I think it's just the fault of the airlines. Like it or not, a lot of people have come to think of airline tickets as a commodity, not as differentiated products. So when airlines like F9 and NK start doing something differently, that changes things in a way that can trip people up.

It doesn't help that people go looking for tickets on sites that lump all the airlines together and list based on ticket price or time but don't factor in the true cost of the ticket. Ideally, these sites should be able to show you exactly what price you would pay given certain variables (wanting an assigned seat, want a carry-on, etc.) but I doubt the airlines would be okay with them altering the ticket prices shown.

So what do I think? Legislation isn't a totally bad idea, just probably not the kind they're thinking about. If the airlines had to supply pricing on ancillaries through their application programming interfaces (APIs) and display the final ticket price upfront, that would go a long way towards alleviating these concerns.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:35 am

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 16):
"These increased surcharges fly in the face of declining fuel costs and appear focused on increasing profitability on the backs of American families. If your company does plan to impose holiday surcharges, I request that you rescind those plans immediately.”

PREACH!

It's about time somebody in power takes these airlines to task!

  

Or, people who are upset about those fees can drive, take a non-fee carrier, or simply not take that trip.

If airlines noticed substantial book-away and/or drops in demand due to the fees/fares they charge, they'd adjust accordingly. Apparently the traveling public in general continues to be ok enough with them to keep right on flying.

These are businesses; they charge what the market will bear. And the "market" is still saying (with their wallets) that they're ok bearing these charges.

It's not up to some pandering politician to say they're going to artificially alter the market.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
unmlobo
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:40 am

I don't think politicians should be regulating airline fees, however F9's "holiday" bag fees are basically anytime between now and April (expect for about a month between early Jan-early Feb), so it is essentially a permanent increase in bag fees and is disingenuous to call it a "holiday" increase.
Went to school in ABQ, former airline employee. Now living in Dallas
 
nws2002
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:45 am

This is silly. With NK, F9, and G4 you get a randomly assigned seat and a personal item from point A to point B. That's it, and those are the fares they advertise. The advertised fares on the website include all the required fees, taxes, and surcharges. Anything extra, like a checked or carryon bag or seat assignment, is outlined when you add it.

Ultra low fares by these carriers are possible through unbundling. All three have pages on their website outlining every possible add-on fee.

https://www.spirit.com/OptionalServices

http://content.flyfrontier.com/optional-service-fees

https://www.allegiantair.com/popup/optional-services-fees

I've used both G4 and NK and traveled with just a backpack. If you buy at the right times you can get roundtrip itineraries for $50-70. Well worth it for a weekend trip and a guaranteed seat compared with the non-rev lottery.

The families going to SFB on G4 generally have it down to a fine art. They know all the rules and use them to their advantage by putting carseats in a bag and then either checking it at the counter or gate checking it for free. They know they can bring a diaper bag onboard for free. They print their boarding passes at home or use the mobile app. These are apparently people who know how to read and figure it out. Instead of the ones who show up at the airport without a boarding pass and are charged $5 to print it because they didn't pay attention when they booked their ticket.

I haven't used F9 sine their ULCC makeover, but I would imagine they are much the same.
 
airlinewatcher1
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:45 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 19):

Or, people who are upset about those fees can drive, take a non-fee carrier, or simply not take that trip.

If airlines noticed substantial book-away and/or drops in demand due to the fees/fares they charge, they'd adjust accordingly. Apparently the traveling public in general continues to be ok enough with them to keep right on flying.

These are businesses; they charge what the market will bear. And the "market" is still saying (with their wallets) that they're ok bearing these charges.

It's not up to some pandering politician to say they're going to artificially alter the market.

I'll gladly take my business elsewhere. Just because these airlines can do it doesn't mean we can't call them out on their shenanigans.

Fuel prices are low and profits are at record highs. There is no reason for this other than the almighty dollar. It is completely unnecessary.
 
Mir
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:51 am

Quoting adamblang (Reply 8):
There is no "sneaking" when the DOT requires all air carriers operating in/to/from/through the U.S. to put right on the home page a link to every single fee a person could be charged and under what circumstances. The only people who are surprised by airline fees are the willfully ignorant.

Did they inform the people who booked the flights over the applicable dates that they'd be paying more for their bag fees at the time of booking? If they did, then there's no problem. If they're only applying it to fares booked now and not to previously booked fares, there's also no problem. But if they're applying it across the board, then it's a bait and switch and shouldn't be allowed. Sure, it's a small difference, but where do you draw the line on these things? I'd prefer to draw it at zero.

-Mir
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nws2002
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:54 am

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 22):
Fuel prices are low and profits are at record highs. There is no reason for this other than the almighty dollar. It is completely unnecessary.

If they lose enough business they'll reconsider I'm sure. That's how a free market works. However, these airlines have not really shown any sign of slow growth. There must be a large contingent of the population who doesn't care enough about the fees.
 
dc10lover
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:51 am

No use getting angry. Simply don't fly F9 NK or G4.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
flyguy89
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:54 am

Quoting moo (Reply 9):
If its a voluntary addon, then fair enough, but "fuel surcharges" et al should be in the base fare.

As pointed out, per DOT regulations all mandatory taxes/fees/surcharges must be included in the advertised or quoted fare. A regulation, I'd point out, that the likes of rental car companies and hotels aren't subject to.

Quoting moo (Reply 9):
And yes, I do think that the majority of consumers are too dumb to do the math themselves - that is afterall why we have laws restricting advertising and pricing claims in the first place....


That's pretty infantalizing of you. All of the add-ons are made very clear in the booking process and all consumers know the final price before they purchase. Fact is that even with the add-ons, fares on the likes of NK, G4 and F9 are still significantly cheaper on the main. You can do the math yourself. G4 and NK publish their average base fares and average ancillary revenue collected per passenger in their quarterly earnings report. The combined total is still significantly cheaper than the national average.

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 16):
It's about time somebody in power takes these airlines to task!


For what? Finally making modest returns to invest in themselves and their employees?

Quoting MD88CLE (Reply 17):
No, I think they may not be well-informed enough (and perhaps be too lazy) to realize the difference. Not that I think it's just the fault of the airlines. Like it or not, a lot of people have come to think of airline tickets as a commodity, not as differentiated products. So when airlines like F9 and NK start doing something differently, that changes things in a way that can trip people up.

You can claim they're not well-informed enough, but on average they're paying significantly less for their airfare as compared to the national average. The numbers don't lie. If they get tripped up, there are a number of other airlines they can move on to, nobody holds a gun to their head forcing them to click the purchase button.

Quoting MD88CLE (Reply 17):
Ideally, these sites should be able to show you exactly what price you would pay given certain variables (wanting an assigned seat, want a carry-on, etc.) but I doubt the airlines would be okay with them altering the ticket prices shown.

And why would they? The true cost of the ticket is going vary from person to person depending on which add-ons they choose. I'm not going to check a bag or care where I sit, why would I care to see an inflated price that includes amenities I won't use?

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 21):
The families going to SFB on G4 generally have it down to a fine art.


Precisely. Contrary to the elitist point-of-view that ULCC customers don't know what they're doing, all of the ULCC's passengers are on the main fully cognizant of the cost of their travel when they hit purchase, and are realizing significant value.
 
airlinewatcher1
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:39 am

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 26):

For what? Finally making modest returns to invest in themselves and their employees?

Outsourcing 1160 jobs is investing in their employees? Not on my planet.
 
flyguy89
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:51 am

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 27):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 26):

For what? Finally making modest returns to invest in themselves and their employees?

Outsourcing 1160 jobs is investing in their employees? Not on my planet.

And yet...

BTS: US passenger airlines achieved 7-year employment peak in August
 
aa87
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:54 am

I just booked NK for FL trip in late Jan. Total cost for 5 w pre-prchase checked bags ? $599. Savings of about $900 out of EWR, so we're driving 3 hours to BWI. Our choice. If Bill is so concerned about consumers, let the Dems cap airfares from EWR, which is probably the most non-competitive major hub in the US ... w the fares to prove it.
 
airlinewatcher1
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:54 am

"Frontier Airlines continued to downsize, as its FTE workforce shrank 27.6% YOY to 2,776 employees."
 
flyguy89
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:00 am

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 30):
"Frontier Airlines continued to downsize, as its FTE workforce shrank 27.6% YOY to 2,776 employees."

And yet..."In August, full-time equivalent employment at US scheduled passenger airlines reached a seven-year peak, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics. Full-time equivalent employment (FTE) grew 3.3% year-over-year (YOY) in August, to a total FTE count of 397,007 personnel. August was the 21st consecutive month of overall rising employment at US airlines and the highest monthly total since September 2008."

What do you think covers the labor costs for all those employees? Those evil mid-range margin profits the airlines are realizing.
 
winginit
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:55 pm

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 22):
I'll gladly take my business elsewhere. Just because these airlines can do it doesn't mean we can't call them out on their shenanigans.

True, but based on the traffic figures and margins that the ULCC's are racking up, calling airlines out on their "shenanigans" and actually taking their dollars elsewhere doesn't appear to be something too many passengers are doing regularly. The market speaks, and the airlines adjust accordingly.

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 22):
Fuel prices are low and profits are at record highs. There is no reason for this other than the almighty dollar. It is completely unnecessary.

The almighty dollar is the reason these airlines exist: that's it, and it's entirely necessary to provide maximum shareholder benefit which is, again, the reason these airlines exist.
 
OB1504
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:44 pm

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 30):
"Frontier Airlines continued to downsize, as its FTE workforce shrank 27.6% YOY to 2,776 employees."

That's Frontier, which outsourced their customer service and ramp agents systemwide (except for DEN, I think).

Meanwhile, Delta just gave their customer service agents a 14% wage increase, and American is matching it and insourcing previously outsourced agent jobs. They can afford to do so because they're finally consistently profitable.

Quoting winginit (Reply 33):
The almighty dollar is the reason these airlines exist: that's it, and it's entirely necessary to provide maximum shareholder benefit which is, again, the reason these airlines exist.

   Air travel is not a right.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:19 am

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 7):
Do you think consumers are too dumb to do the math themselves?

Yes...I do...which is why a bunch of these idiots automatically bite off on the "low fares" advertised on the websites and get shocked into reality at check-in.
 
bourbon
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:22 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 34):

When is American matching The raise at Delta?
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:24 pm

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 24):
If they lose enough business they'll reconsider I'm sure. That's how a free market works. However, these airlines have not really shown any sign of slow growth. There must be a large contingent of the population who doesn't care enough about the fees.

Or, like in my case, actually likes the fees because they bring down the total price for those of us that don't use them. I can do any long weekend out of a backpack and really don't care about my seat on any flight less than 2.5 hours. Let someone else pay for that crap and I'll take my cheap fare, thank you! Flying F9 has never been cheaper and I'm enjoying it  
Good goes around!
 
winginit
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:31 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 34):
Meanwhile, Delta just gave their customer service agents a 14% wage increase, and American is matching it
Quoting bourbon (Reply 36):
When is American matching The raise at Delta?

  

This would be news to me as well
 
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dabpit
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:09 pm

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 37):
Or, like in my case, actually likes the fees because they bring down the total price for those of us that don't use them. I can do any long weekend out of a backpack and really don't care about my seat on any flight less than 2.5 hours. Let someone else pay for that crap and I'll take my cheap fare, thank you! Flying F9 has never been cheaper and I'm enjoying it

Totally agree! I love flying NK and F9. The base fare is cheap and makes weekend trips fun and for a fraction of the cost.
Carpe Diem
 
airlinewatcher1
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:33 pm

Quoting winginit (Reply 33):

The almighty dollar is the reason these airlines exist: that's it, and it's entirely necessary to provide maximum shareholder benefit which is, again, the reason these airlines exist.

Actually, I think they exist because of the people that fly them. They are providing a service. But lately it seems as though they are at war with their own customers. So when Frontier and Spirit have the highest complaint rate in the industry, but show very little interest to improve because they are making money, that to me raises some major red flags. And people are noticing:

"I STRONGLY recommend that you only use Frontier Airlines as a last resort for your travel. They have recently changed the way they do business and their new business plan is to hit you for a fee at every chance. Honestly I felt as though I had gone into a bad neighborhood and was getting held-up at every corner., They charge you for EVERY bag you take on the plane, you cannot get a seat assignment before the gate unless you pay an extra $8 fee, they even charge you $2 for water on the flight. One of the most humiliating things is that just before boarding the plane they demand that every purse, bag, briefcase and carry-on must fit into one of two different measurement devices and if it does not, they charge you $100 to check the bag!!! It took an extra 45-minutes for everyone to line up and go through this humiliation. Mothers with children were trying to manage, an older woman got confused. Really, just for a few more dollars. The flight attendants HATE the new rules because it makes the passengers MAD and they blame the flight attendants. Not the attendants fault of course, but I can understand the frustration. So, be smart and use your dollars to vote for a better, less greedy approach. I say this even if you pay a few dollars more up front, because in the end you will probably NOT save anything on Frontier."
 
winginit
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:38 pm

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 40):
Actually, I think they exist because of the people that fly them.

We're saying essentially the same thing: people are willing to pay to fly them. If the people that fly them weren't willing to pay the service and the associated carrier wouldn't exist, but people are (in increasing quantities), so they do.

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 40):
But lately it seems as though they are at war with their own customers.

and yet that pool of customers continues to grow, so clearly the war isn't one where you're seeing many casualties but instead just the opposite. The almighty dollar controls the habits of corporations and customers alike, both of whom are selfish.

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 40):
So when Frontier and Spirit have the highest complaint rate in the industry

Many of those same people who are complaining continue to fly them time and time again, because for many air travel is simply a commodity.

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 37):
I can do any long weekend out of a backpack and really don't care about my seat on any flight less than 2.5 hours. Let someone else pay for that crap and I'll take my cheap fare, thank you! Flying F9 has never been cheaper and I'm enjoying it  

bingo. That summarizes my point better than any verbiage I can put out.
 
bohica
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:41 pm

When was the last time Senator Nelson paid to fly anywhere? He flies everywhere in first class at taxpayer expense. If he paid to fly out of his own pocket an he paid the fees that airlines charge he might have a valid complaint. He has absolutely no ground to stand on and he has no credibility.
 
luv2cattlecall
Posts: 817
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:25 am

RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:14 pm

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 13):

side note - what would the thinking be to actually charge a $2 fee vs just increasing the fare by $2?

I believe it has to go with corporate and government contracts. Not sure if tax is paid on that part.

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 40):
. One of the most humiliating things is that just before boarding the plane they demand that every purse, bag, briefcase and carry-on must fit into one of two different measurement devices and if it does not, they charge

Airports have had those sizers for decades - the people most upset about them being enforced are those that abused their carryon privileges.
.
 
FATFlyer
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:44 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 4):
And yet hotels do this all the time.

I hate add on fees from any business. But I really hate the mandatory "facility fee"/"resort fee" mentality that many hotels have adopted.

When I am required to pay a flat fee every day for the hotel pool, fitness center, room phone, etc, even when I do not use them it irks me. If it is mandatory then just put it in the hotel rate. Otherwise just charge me if/when I use that service.

At least with airline fees I pay for the services I actually use. I'm not fond of them with airlines but at least I can try to find an alternative to that individual service to avoid/minimize the fee.

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 40):
"I STRONGLY recommend that you only use Frontier Airlines as a last resort for your travel. They have recently changed the way they do business and their new business plan is to hit you for a fee at every chance.................

The last part I quoted is the revealing part of that comment.

First, that quote started appearing on the web in January 2014. It is old and dates to the period when Frontier was first changing to the ULCC model.

Second, the exact quote was copied/pasted to many sites at that time. A search for just the first sentence returns the entire quote at many sites. When someone goes to that length to repeat post I usually wonder if the author left out something about their end of the experience. There is likely another side to that story.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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dabpit
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RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:21 pm

Both airlines put it up front that extras will add to the ticket. You can add in all the extras as you are going through the booking before you actually buy the ticket! Also both NK and F9 send out emails reminding the passenger to pay for extra items in advance.

Yes they charge for everything but you can pick and choose what you want to pay for. If you do not like it then go fly another airline that doesn't charge you for every item (keep in mind all but WN charge for checked bags).

Bottom line is that you can get a good cheap ticket flying NK and F9 and those that complain and swear that they will never fly NK or F9 again always tend to fly them again.
Carpe Diem
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:40 pm

Quoting airlinewatcher1 (Reply 22):
I'll gladly take my business elsewhere. Just because these airlines can do it doesn't mean we can't call them out on their shenanigans.

There you go - it's called choice.

But savvy folk buy The Works on Frontier - for a very reasonable price - and everything is covered, they don't have any fees added on, no "shenanigans."

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2498
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:48 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 44):
When I am required to pay a flat fee every day for the hotel pool, fitness center, room phone, etc, even when I do not use them it irks me. If it is mandatory then just put it in the hotel rate. Otherwise just charge me if/when I use that service.

Yah...and Vegas is by far the WORST offenders at this.
 
winginit
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Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:59 pm

Quoting dabpit (Reply 45):
Bottom line is that you can get a good cheap ticket flying NK and F9 and those that complain and swear that they will never fly NK or F9 again always tend to fly them again.
NPR had an excellent podcast on Spirit in February of 2014 that echos your same conclusion there
 
AWACSooner
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:21 pm

Quoting dabpit (Reply 45):
Bottom line is that you can get a good cheap ticket flying NK and F9 and those that complain and swear that they will never fly NK or F9 again always tend to fly them again.

Well, then I guess I am one of the rare ones that actually backs up his words with action...because I'll be damned if I ever fly an airline that stoops so low as to charge folks to load their own bags into overhead bins.
 
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tb727
Posts: 2166
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:40 pm

RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:03 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 49):
because I'll be damned if I ever fly an airline that stoops so low as to charge folks to load their own bags into overhead bins.

Do you ever check your bags?

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 35):
Yes...I do...which is why a bunch of these idiots automatically bite off on the "low fares" advertised on the websites and get shocked into reality at check-in.

I don't know how it always ends up being a shock. Actually I do. The ones that are the most pissed are the ones who book via 3rd party sites like fly com. If you book through F9 or NK's websites you are prompted multiple times about the fees while buying your ticket and how they get more expensive the closer you get to departure time/the gate. They even email you the day before your trip reminding you that it's up to $100 if you wait(which I believe they have for a while now even if you book via 3rd party). If someone chooses not to read the pop-ups and emails and just click ahead anyways, well I don't know how that is an airlines fault.

When AA rolls out their pricing next year to compete with ULCC's, the same thing is going to happen. People are gonna pick the lowest price without reading and they are going to be in for a surprise.
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2498
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

RE: Senator Bill Nelson Calls Out NK & F9 On Fees

Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:16 am

Quoting tb727 (Reply 48):

Do you ever check your bags?

Yep...I have a wife and daughter...  
Quoting tb727 (Reply 48):
If someone chooses not to read the pop-ups and emails and just click ahead anyways, well I don't know how that is an airlines fault.

I'm not saying it's the airlines' fault...I'm saying that, imo, a lot of the folks who select those airlines based upon fare only, then get sticker shock when they have to check in bags, choose seats, etc. ARE too dumb to do the math themselves.

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