LY777
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European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:16 am

Hi guys,

AF, IB, BA and LH are well known for their strikes (AF seems to be the worst).

Are there European Airlines that never strike?

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AWACSooner
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:22 am

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):

Are there European Airlines that never strike?

The ones that have labor contracts prohibiting striking?
 
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OA260
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:29 am

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Are there European Airlines that never strike?

Aegean Airlines and Olympic Air are two. One of the bonuses of finally freeing the latter from state controls.
 
B747forever
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:31 am

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
AF, IB, BA and LH are well known for their strikes (AF seems to be the worst).

When was the last BA strike? I dont think it is fair to put them in the same league as AF/LH.
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LY777
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:35 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 3):

I remember many BA strikes (not recently, though).

Has LX ever striked?
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N1120A
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:35 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 3):
When was the last BA strike?

2010?

At least LH strikes tend to be single day variety.
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anstar
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:35 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 3):
When was the last BA strike? I dont think it is fair to put them in the same league as AF/LH.

Around 2010 I believe.

Virgin Atlantic have never gone on strike in their 30 year history.
 
OO-VEG
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:40 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
2010?

At least LH strikes tend to be single day variety.

Except for this week then. I think KL is pretty much strike-free as well (though of course directly impacted by the AF part)
 
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OA260
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:41 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
2010?

That one lasted over 20 days IIRC. They came close to striking last June too.
 
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anfromme
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:42 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
Aegean Airlines and Olympic Air are two. One of the bonuses of finally freeing the latter from state controls.

Legally, does the right to strike have anything to do with being state-owned in Greece?
Strikes certainly aren't limited to state-owned companies in Germany (LH being a good example for that).

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 1):
The ones that have labor contracts prohibiting striking?

Not sure about other European countries, but in Germany, I believe that wouldn't be legal. However, weakening unions certainly helps if you want to avoid strikes, as a prerequisite for strike action is usually a vote among staff, which is much easier to organise (and get a "yes to strike" on) by unions than by individuals. Union membership isn't a prerequisite for going on strike, though.

As for the original question - LG came to mind, but I checked and found they only narrowly averted one last year.
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PanHAM
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:45 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 1):
The ones that have labor contracts prohibiting striking?

Good one. They could write such a clause in a contract and employees could still strike because the clause would be illegal. Striking is a Basic right, excepted are only civil servants.

Your collegues from the Luftwaffe cannot strike, at least those who are "Beamte".
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TK787
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:46 am

It seems like TK never strikes. I'm not even sure if they have the right to  .
Last time some TK FA's did, didn't they all get fired?
 
PanHAM
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:53 am

Quoting anfromme (Reply 9):
Germany (LH being a good example for that).

LH isn't state owned. Anyon has a right to strike or go to work while his/her collegues are on strike.

Exception is civil servants with "life Status".In Exchange for that they get paid a life long pay 7 Pension , inluding their spouses, they lost the right to strike.
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OA260
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:07 am

Quoting anfromme (Reply 9):
Legally, does the right to strike have anything to do with being state-owned in Greece?

In Greece you will find that due to the nature of the set up historically everything was state owned. Therefore they had a reputation for striking at the drop of a hat and did. With the private sector running A3/OA you can see the difference especially given tomorrows general strikes. Had OA still been state controlled they would be walking out tomorrow too where as tomorrow they will be running normally subject to the civil aviation authorities allowing them !
 
LSZH34
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:11 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 4):
Has LX ever striked?

LX never striked. Striking has no good reputation in Switzerland.
 
lancelot07
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:13 am

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):

Ryanair ?
 
N1120A
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:15 am

Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 14):
LX never striked.

There were strikes directed at LX during the criminal unwinding of SR.
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anstar
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:21 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 8):
That one lasted over 20 days IIRC. They came close to striking last June too.

And LGW BA crew have balloted to strike last month
 
76er
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:27 am

KL pilots organized strikes is 1930, 1958 (4 days) and 1995 (6 hours). Their cabin crew has never been on strike as far as I can tell.
 
NH203
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:38 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
Had OA still been state controlled they would be walking out tomorrow too where as tomorrow they will be running normally subject to the civil aviation authorities allowing them !

Interestingly, A3 has canceled all OA flights that are operated by Dash 8-100, while the Q400's are scheduled as normal. The -100s primarily operate on PSO routes, so maybe that's the reason. Makes me wonder whether there is still some separation within OA.
 
SCQ83
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:44 am

Nothing against strikes, it means it is a democracy, and that is good for everybody except corruption.

Unless you want to live in a dictatorship with their flashy carriers, showers and suites  
 
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OA260
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:45 am

Quoting NH203 (Reply 19):

The reason is that some smaller Domestic Airports will go on strike owned by the state. OA has nothing to do with the state and is therefore not on strike. Any effects will be because of the state operators.


 
NH203
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:49 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 21):

Thank you, that makes sense!
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:27 am

Quoting anstar (Reply 17):

Quoting OA260 (Reply 8):
That one lasted over 20 days IIRC. They came close to striking last June too.

And LGW BA crew have balloted to strike last month

That was a consultative ballot. I don't believe there's been a formal ballot for strike action.

The cabin crew strikes of 2010 were a watershed moment in BA industrial relations. The union lost very badly and anyone contemplating strike action can no longer be certain they'll get a better offer or a compromise from the company.
 
Andy33
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:30 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 23):
The cabin crew strikes of 2010 were a watershed moment in BA industrial relations. The union lost very badly

To the extent that not only did a large number of cabin crew continue working, but the cabin crew unions received no support from any other BA workplace union, and unionised BA staff from other departments worked as volunteer cabin crew.
 
shuttle9juliet
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:36 pm

Quoting Andy33 (Reply 24):

That I will never understand?? Most of these people were in the same Union and went to do volunteer crew???
How would they like it if someone did their job....
Pilots, engineers too....
People don't forget!!!!
 
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ankaraflyjet
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:38 pm

TK hardly is hit by a strike....
 
Viscount724
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:25 am

Quoting OO-VEG (Reply 7):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
2010?

At least LH strikes tend to be single day variety.

Except for this week then. I think KL is pretty much strike-free as well (though of course directly impacted by the AF part)

I'm pretty sure one of LH's other fairly recent strikes lasted longer than one day. And even if a strike only lasts a day it disrupts service for several days due to aircraft and crews being out of position.

KL's strike-free recent history is one reason why KL is my preferred airline in Europe. I go out of my way to avoid AF (ironic since it's part of the same company) and I now avoid LH due to their recent troublesome labor relations. BA has been better recently but going back to their government-ownership days they had very frequent strikes, often wildcat strikes with little or no notice, like most other industries in the UK in those days.
 
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thekorean
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:32 am

SU and the Russian carriers?  
 
airbazar
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:09 pm

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
AF, IB, BA and LH are well known for their strikes (AF seems to be the worst).
TP is notorious for strikes. You can count on a strike at least twice a year. Usually around holiday periods.

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):

Are there European Airlines that never strike?

I've never heard of strikes from any of the LCC's in Europe.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 20):
Nothing against strikes, it means it is a democracy, and that is good for everybody except corruption.

Strikes are a relic from a long past when businesses were state owned and/or regulated. They have no place in today's world. A strike achieves nothing positive. It only weakens the company's position against the competition and ruin's people's plans, in this case travel plans. If you're a factory worker and go on strike, your employer will close the factory and send your job to China or India. If you're an airline employee and go on strike, some other airline will swoop in take your business and chances are you will be out of a job eventually. In today's free market there is no room for that kind of nonsense. Just look at the most notorious striking airlines in Europe, AF and AZ and where their financial situation is.

[Edited 2015-11-12 06:17:37]
 
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eurowings
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:40 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 29):
I've never heard of strikes from any of the LCC's in Europe.

Much less frequent, but it has either happened or came close to happening on a few occasions at those LCCs with (partial) union representation. DY's short-haul pilots based in Scandinavia went on strike earlier this year. EZY's cabin crew based in France walked out last year, with UK cabin crew considering strike action this year before a pay deal was agreed. Pilots at 4U also went on strike this year.
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anfromme
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:59 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 29):
I've never heard of strikes from any of the LCC's in Europe.

4U, DY, U2, AB, even FR - they have all been hit by strikes. Of the European LCCs it seems only W6 so far has not seen any strike action.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 29):
Strikes are a relic from a long past when businesses were state owned and/or regulated.


Off-topic, but you might want to freshen up on your history of labour rights, the right to strike, etc.

The rest of the paragraph in your post that I quoted from there is more than debatable, but doesn't belong in a civil aviation forum, quite frankly.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 29):
Just look at the most notorious striking airlines in Europe, AF and AZ and where their financial situation is.

Things aren't as monocausal as that, and you might also be confusing cause and effect there.
Both airlines were/are in the pits financially, and badly managed on top of that. Which tends to lead to cuts, which tend to lead to strikes.
Similar story at EI, who actually did quite well in the face of all that once management got better; strikes have become much rarer as a consequence as well.
Sure, once you're in the pits and your staff are up in arms, strikes don't exactly help the situation - but the primary cause usually lies elsewhere.
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330lover
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:08 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 4):
Has LX ever striked?
Quoting LSZH34 (Reply 14):
LX never striked. Striking has no good reputation in Switzerland.

There have been times where the cockpit crew 'coincidentally' were ill 'en masse' and flights had to be cancelled.
I remember telexes coming in 'flight cancelled due to cockpit crew shortage'.
This was not a one off, but very regular at that time.
We even had some flights operated by 343, 333, 332 or even the Privatair 737 (on Saturdays, it was operating the ZRH-EWR on other days back then) because of lack of short haul crew (ARJ).

But still, not an official strike...

[Edited 2015-11-12 08:09:45]
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anfromme
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:33 pm

Quoting 330lover (Reply 32):
There have been times where the cockpit crew 'coincidentally' were ill 'en masse' and flights had to be cancelled.

Apparently, LH is currently seeing both - official strike action and record numbers of people calling in sick. At FRA alone, 1,000 of the 12,000 cabin staff stationed there were off sick last Thursday, the day before strikes began. An additional 420 called in sick the next day. By contrast, only 108 cabin staff at FRA were officially on strike.
Similar story in Munich this week (120 officially on strike, 460 sick).
(Source - German only.)
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diverted
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:49 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 29):
Strikes are a relic from a long past when businesses were state owned and/or regulated. They have no place in today's world. A strike achieves nothing positive. It only weakens the company's position against the competition and ruin's people's plans, in this case travel plans. If you're a factory worker and go on strike, your employer will close the factory and send your job to China or India. If you're an airline employee and go on strike, some other airline will swoop in take your business and chances are you will be out of a job eventually. In today's free market there is no room for that kind of nonsense. Just look at the most notorious striking airlines in Europe, AF and AZ and where their financial situation is.

Isn't that the reason strikes are a thing though? If workers had no recourse other than "quit if you don't like it" what reason does management have to listen to them? Sure, people are replaceable, etc etc. but it at least gives management a reason to keep people happy. Unforunately, it seems that goodwill towards workers is going the way of the dodo (There are exceptions..looking at you DL)

Striking definitely weakens a companies position, no doubt about it. All the more reason to keep your employees working, happy, and keeping customers happy. LH/AF lately...what a goat show. Guess what; figure your sh*t out with your pilots/cabin crew/whoever and get on with it. They're losing more money dealing with strikes than they would if they paid them half decently.

A great quote from Mr. Bethune

Quote:

“I arrived in February of 1994, and Continental was consistently dead last in customer satisfaction metrics. And then, we consistently ranked first. To this day, we have a record for JD Power Awards. We were on Fortune Magazine my last six years for the 100 Best Places to Work in America. We were the most admired airline in the world, according to Fortune. Those are kinds of things that are long-built records. But I didn’t do it. The team did it.

How did we do it? We became America’s most on-time airline. How did we do that? We focused on that every day, and the record still stands. So, it can be done from a dispirited last place. We lost something like $600 million in 1994. In 1995, we made $225 million—with the same people and the same airplanes. So, it wasn’t anything wrong with the employees. It was the management—and it always is.”
 
RIX
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:58 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 34):
If workers had no recourse other than "quit if you don't like it" what reason does management have to listen to them?

Worners' only resource is being good workers for their company. Otherwise, what reason does management have to listen to them?
 
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anfromme
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:03 pm

Quoting RIX (Reply 35):
Worners' only resource is being good workers for their company. Otherwise, what reason does management have to listen to them?

So unless people shut up, the company doesn't have a reason to listen to them?
Oh, the irony.

[Edited 2015-11-13 08:07:03]
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ro1960
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:45 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 1):
The ones that have labor contracts prohibiting striking?

In France and in the EU as well it is a constitutional right*. It can't be voided by a work contract. Unions in public services are obligated to give a five working day minimum notice. The management is obligated to open negotiations or the unions can decide to start the strike. In the private sector the notice is not mandatory so they can go on strike the moment they decide.


* CHARTER OF FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS OF THE EUROPEAN UNION - Article 28

Right of collective bargaining and action

Workers and employers, or their respective organisations, have, in accordance with Union law and national laws and practices, the right to negotiate and conclude collective agreements at the appropriate levels and, in cases of conflicts of interest, to take collective action to defend their interests, including strike action.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...HTML/?uri=CELEX:12012P/TXT&from=fr

[Edited 2015-11-13 08:49:43]
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RIX
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:50 pm

Quoting anfromme (Reply 36):

So unless people shut up, the company doesn't have a reason to listen to them?

Why, I never said "shut up". I said, be a good worker, so the company wants to listen to you, to make you happy, ... That is your resource, not blackmailing those who gives you job.
 
747megatop
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Are there European Airlines that never strike?

A million $ bet that you will be hard pressed to find one. European airlines are synonymous with strikes. The seem to have a perfect understanding not to go on strike at the same time though and have their strike schedules coordinated  
 
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anfromme
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:39 pm

Quoting RIX (Reply 38):
Why, I never said "shut up". I said, be a good worker, so the company wants to listen to you, to make you happy, ... That is your resource, not blackmailing those who gives you job.

That's assuming quite a lot of things. But we digress off topic.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 39):
The seem to have a perfect understanding not to go on strike at the same time though and have their strike schedules coordinated  

 
True enough - don't think I've ever seen two (major) airlines be hit by strikes at the same time.
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bananaboy
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RE: European Airlines That Never Strike?

Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:58 pm

Can't remember Britannia / Thomson crew ever going on strike.


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