aryonoco
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:16 pm

Iranian President Rouhani is visiting Paris on Nov 16-17.

According to the press, the visit will include signing Aviation-related contracts.

Do you think IR will be placing a big Airbus order next week? If yes, what do you think they'll order? And how many?

In one week's time, we'll know who was closer to mark!
 
jfk777
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:19 pm

Lots of A320 and A330's. Maybe A350, the last thing the Iranians need is an A380. Iran is fortunate geographically in that almost everything in Europe and Asia is 8 to 9 hours away.
 
aryonoco
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:19 pm

I'll get the speculation going myself:

I think IR will place an order for 40 A320 family, divided between A320 and A321.

Perhaps some options for A320NEO as well.

And an order for 12-15 A330, with perhaps a further 8-10 A330NEO to come later.

The A330 engine will be RR. Not sure about the A320 engine, probably IAG.

[Edited 2015-11-11 04:25:23]
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:22 pm

If IR could restart flights to North America, what aircraft should they order to fly there from THR?
 
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MrHMSH
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:32 pm

It'd be good to see it happen: and I agree with the above, anything available soon will be prime targets for IR. So I'd expect to see as many A320s squeezed in as possible, but I think they might go for second hand ones because of how tight demand is. The A330 would seem like a good bet, a mix of second hand and new A330s and A330neos is available very soon. This would cover their domestic/regional needs, Europe and the Far East. The A350 is probably not going to happen yet, and the A380... nah.

On the Boeing side, 737s to go alongside the A320s is plausible, and the 777 would be available on the cheap from Boeing or hand-me-downs from the ME3. Obviously this will only happen if the US lightens up, but there's not been too much news on this. The 787 like the A350 is one for the future.
 
Candid76
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:33 pm

They should provide a fleet of A340s as an interim solution with new aircraft to follow after a few years. The 500s that are sitting in Lourdes can be used to launch new long haul routes quickly. This is probably the only realistic opportunity to place those aircraft and Airbus ought to seize it.
 
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nimool
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:33 pm

Most probably they'd order big bunch of A320 family and A333s as they are most efficient and has the range for the routes they operate at the moment, If anytime we see that they open route to north america or Canada we might see them getting A350s or even couple of A380s.
for routes such as LHR ORY and even regional such as DXB with high demand i'd say A333 is just enough.
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aryonoco
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:35 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 3):

If IR could restart flights to North America, what aircraft should they order to fly there from THR?

I don't think flights to US are on the cards right now, there are still too many barriers for that. Perhaps in another year's time.

However flights to YYZ would make a lot of sense, and there is a considerable Iranian expat community now in Toronto. With that in mind, IKA-YYZ in short of 5400nm, should be doable on a A330.

Would a twinjet need ETOPS certification to do such a route? That might be a problem as IR won't have that right now. In which case, and if they also want to service YVR and LAX, they might pick up a few used A340s for the time being until they can get their hands on A350.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:58 pm

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 7):
I don't think flights to US are on the cards right now, there are still too many barriers for that. Perhaps in another year's time.

However flights to YYZ would make a lot of sense, and there is a considerable Iranian expat community now in Toronto.

Hence why I said North America.

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 7):
With that in mind, IKA-YYZ in short of 5400nm, should be doable on a A330.

Despite IKA being 1,007 m/3,300 ft above sea level?
 
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zkojq
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:01 pm

If I had to guess:
~35 A320ceos
~15 A330ceos (helping to bridge the gap between ceo and neo)

More importantly I expect Airbus Financial Services to place lots of currently stored A340s with them. Probably for a knockdown price.

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 5):
They should provide a fleet of A340s as an interim solution with new aircraft to follow after a few years. The 500s that are sitting in Lourdes can be used to launch new long haul routes quickly.

   Lots of -300s, -500s and -600s waiting for new owners.
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einsteinboricua
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:08 pm

If it's gonna be Airbus orders, then definitely look for A32X (more towards the A320 and A321) CEOs (to get them as soon as possible) and some A330s (would think the -200 to allow for range).

Any follow up orders would probably include the A350 and A380 if IR is allowed back to US soil (flights to New York and San Francisco could be in the cards).
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Amiga500
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:09 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 1):
the last thing the Iranians need is an A380.

Economically, I agree.

Politically... I disagree.

If there is the prospect of sanctions being re-invoked - then Iran would gain a much stronger influence from the Airbus lobby by having A380s on back order rather than, say, A350s or A330s.


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lightsaber
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:08 pm

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 9):

I'm not sure about CEOs, but I agree A320s and A330s.

Due to the backlog, Iran wouldn't wait much longer for A320NEOs. For the A330... Yea, short term is CEOs.

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aryonoco
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:29 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 8):
Despite IKA being 1,007 m/3,300 ft above sea level?

I'm not an expert, someone with more knowledge than me can say what an A330's realistic range from IKA is. You might very well be right, IKA is both high, and can be hot during summer. Also Iranians like to travel heavy, so the A330 might not be enough for it. In which case, as others have said, used A340s would make a lot of sense.

But would it make sense to lease/buy a fleet of A340s? All of IR's destinations in Europe and Asia are easily within reach of A330. So they would only need longer range for YYZ, and maybe YVR and SYD if they decide to fly to these places. Would it make economic sense to buy A340s just for 1-3 destinations?
 
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:37 pm

Quoting aryonoco (Thread starter):
According to the press, the visit will include signing Aviation-related contracts.

Actually, Hassan Rohani, the President of Iran, has said to French journalists (France 2 TV and Europe 1 radio) that Iran is going to buy Airbus ac.
He further indicated that negociations have already taken place (as it is usual). He does not ruled out buying from Boeing and others in addition to Airbus (of course).
In August an official said that Iran was looking into buying 80 to 90 airliners per year (but not saying when and for how long).
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:42 pm

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 13):
Would it make economic sense to buy A340s just for 1-3 destinations?

If for instance they order/lease A330s, taking several A340s is not like having several 777s for these destinations. They could benefit from the same cockpit and depending of which version of the A340s they would add to their fleet, choose either RR or GE to power the A330s and keep that aspect simple too.

Of course all these speculation depend on what their real intentions are, what route authorities they will get and the number of frequencies they will have on these routes. I'm not sure whether IKA-SYD makes sense, thus if they will stop somewhere, the A330 will do the job I guess.
 
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:45 pm

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 10):
-200 to allow for range).

Any follow up orders would probably include the A350 and A380 if IR is allowed back to US soil (flights to New York and San Francisco could be in the cards).

If IR is allowed back in the US, LAX would likely be up first. The Persian community in LA is gigantic (I.e. "Shahs of Sunset", Tehrangeles, etc.)

IKA is a primary destination of passengers flying TK and the Gulf carriers from LAX.

What Airbus aircraft is capable of LAX-IKA? A350?
 
aryonoco
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:52 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 16):
What Airbus aircraft is capable of LAX-IKA? A350?

A340, A350, A380.

But flying to the US is not going to be on the cards, at least not for a while yet. The two countries still officially have no diplomatic relations (despite their foreign minister/secretary of state meeting a number of times). There are too many barriers (certifications, banking relations, etc) for flying to the US; not to mention the possibility of seizing assets as a result of previous court orders.

Flying to the US, and buying Boeing planes, is not going to happen in the short term. But the Airbus order will probably be announced next week.
 
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MrHMSH
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:54 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 16):

What Airbus aircraft is capable of LAX-IKA? A350?

The A380!  

Yes, the A359 and A35K will make LAX, as will the A340-600.
 
aryonoco
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:58 pm

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 18):
Yes, the A359 and A35K will make LAX,

Questions is, will they need ETOPS? The route will go over the north pole, right? I don't know what kind of ETOPS it would need.
 
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MrHMSH
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:06 pm

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 19):
Questions is, will they need ETOPS? The route will go over the north pole, right? I don't know what kind of ETOPS it would need.

I think they will, and yes, it's over the Arctic. I don't know what ETOPS it would need, but I suspect:

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 17):
flying to the US is not going to be on the cards, at least not for a while yet. The two countries still officially have no diplomatic relations (despite their foreign minister/secretary of state meeting a number of times). There are too many barriers (certifications, banking relations, etc) for flying to the US; not to mention the possibility of seizing assets as a result of previous court orders.

Flying to the US, and buying Boeing planes, is not going to happen in the short term. But the Airbus order will probably be announced next week.

  
 
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:09 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
I'm not sure about CEOs, but I agree A320s and A330s.

Due to the backlog, Iran wouldn't wait much longer for A320NEOs. For the A330... Yea, short term is CEOs.

Lightsaber

I would suspect that the thought process the Iranian government may be to buy anything they can get the "keys and papers" for the quickest and can be flown back to IKA promptly.

When was the last time they where in a position to purchase western aircraft? 70's?? In a purchase like this would you expect to see them purchasing simulators and a load of spare parts as well? There wouldn't be too many stumbling blocks with pilot training at the moment?

[Edited 2015-11-11 07:23:30]
 
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KarelXWB
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:11 pm

Quoting travelin man (Reply 16):
What Airbus aircraft is capable of LAX-IKA? A350?
Quoting aryonoco (Reply 17):
A340, A350, A380.

A330-200 should have the legs too.
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MrHMSH
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:16 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 22):
A330-200 should have the legs too.

IKR-LAX is 6617nm, a bit of a stretch for an A332, its longest current flight is DTW-PEK, and that's 'only' 5762nm.
 
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:17 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 22):
A330-200 should have the legs too.

I think the A332 might struggle a little, at the very least requiring payload restrictions. IKA-LAX is almost 900 nm longer than the current longest A332 route (DTW-PEK).
 
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KarelXWB
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:21 pm

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 23):
IKR-LAX is 6617nm, a bit of a stretch for an A332, its longest current flight is DTW-PEK, and that's 'only' 5762nm.

There will be a payload hit for sure.

Looking at the payload / range chart a 233T A332 should be able to haul some 25 tonne over a length of 6600 nm.

http://oi63.tinypic.com/2d8gqxc.jpg

Performance will be a bit better for the new 242T models.
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aryonoco
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:26 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 22):
A330-200 should have the legs too.

I really doubt that. Especially as IR's configuration is probably going to be Y heavy, and IKA is at 1,000 above sea levels.

The A338, maybe, but even then I'm not sure.
 
aryonoco
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:27 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 25):
Looking at the payload / range chart a 233T A332 should be able to haul some 25 tonne over a length of 6600 nm.

Does this take IKA's altitude and hot summers into account?
 
mham001
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:06 pm

Have the sanctions actually been lifted to allow this yet?
 
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:16 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 28):
Have the sanctions actually been lifted to allow this yet?

The wording is so vague in the article, it may just relate to aftermarket spares support.
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readytotaxi
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:45 pm

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 9):
More importantly I expect Airbus Financial Services to place lots of currently stored A340s with them. Probably for a knockdown price.

Probably a good bet, and thow in crew training aswell.
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seahawk
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:01 pm

A330 are obvious
used A340 too imho, as the airlines will have to work on the ETOPS certification

A320 - who does not buy A320, if they buy Airbus
 
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:05 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 3):
If IR could restart flights to North America, what aircraft should they order to fly there from THR?

I think they'd go to Toronto first and use a A333. I think most days you can do it full load but its close.

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 5):

They should provide a fleet of A340s as an interim solution with new aircraft to follow after a few years. The 500s that are sitting in Lourdes can be used to launch new long haul routes quickly

My thoughts exactly. AB has some underutilized frames they can lease till the first deliveries are made. Does Boeing have anything they can lease out? I don't think they do and no one in Iran is trained on the 748/777. They can't even get Visas to come to the USA easily to get trained.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 8):
Hence why I said North America.

I noticed! LAX is served by EK and TK anyway.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 28):
Have the sanctions actually been lifted to allow this yet?

The enforcement has been frozen but they are not "lifted". It will be years before they are lifted. Iran also introduced a bill into parliament to ban all US goods. I assume that means planes too but its not clear to me what they will do re: Boeing.
 
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:51 pm

Quoting MrHMSH (Reply 20):
I think they will, and yes, it's over the Arctic. I don't know what ETOPS it would need, but I suspect:

With ETOPS 90 is more than enough, and that's not very difficult to get.

If IR wants to get some long haul planes shortly, they can get A330 and order A350 for the future, I think even KLM is about to get rid of pretty good A330 so they can get that ones also.

I think the A320 family is perfect for IR and the A321 with good cabin size and range could work great to almost everywhere in Europe.

IKA-LAX is only not doable with the A332 in an economic way, so they could get some A340 while waiting for the A350.

Quoting Spacepope (Reply 29):
The wording is so vague in the article, it may just relate to aftermarket spares support.

That's a very minor business deal for the presidents of both countries, this is a very high level meeting and they will sign big business deal.
 
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readytotaxi
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:52 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 32):
They can't even get Visas to come to the USA easily to get trained.

Are there other countries that could train them to standard, someone in the East?
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superjeff
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:02 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 32):
Iran also introduced a bill into parliament to ban all US goods. I assume that means planes too but its not clear to me what they will do re: Boeing.

Isn't a significant portion of the Airbus jets' parts content American originated?
 
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Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:02 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 33):
With ETOPS 90 is more than enough, and that's not very difficult to get.

It appears would need ETOPS 120, unless they take a more south-easternly route over North Canada:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=IKA-LAX&MS=wls&DU=mi&E=90
 
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Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:20 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 36):
It appears would need ETOPS 120, unless they take a more south-easternly route over North Canada:

More or less, but if you select an engine out speed of around 400 knots, you will see that is ok with 90 mins, but i'm sure they will go for 120 or 180 when they apply for the ETOPS.
 
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RE: Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:32 pm

If LAX is such a big destination for Iranians, and flights to the US are not an option at the moment, and the new international terminal bridge at Tijuana opened recently... could IKA-TIJ be an option?   

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RE: Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:44 pm

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 19):
Questions is, will they need ETOPS? The route will go over the north pole, right? I don't know what kind of ETOPS it would need.

When they can get it,, they will want ETOPS180 to be able to plan the route efficiently north of the GC. GC route, (more favorable winds near the pole, or lack thereof) Some days, being the exception may requireETOPS207 which in itself is of course merely a 15% time extension to ETOPS180 to allow for days where ETOPS180 is not possible due lack of suitable alternates.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 33):
With ETOPS 90 is more than enough, and that's not very difficult to get.


ETOPS90 is not going to cut it for efficient westbound routings. The wind would be right on your nose most of the days.

Does the Iranian CAA even have any ETOPS certified operators under its register?

I would assume this is going to be a new territory for them, now that they will gradually enter the modern aviation era.

[Edited 2015-11-11 10:51:11]
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RE: Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:07 pm

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 2):
I think IR will place an order for 40 A320 family, divided between A320 and A321.

Perhaps some options for A320NEO as well.

And an order for 12-15 A330, with perhaps a further 8-10 A330NEO to come later.

The A330 engine will be RR. Not sure about the A320 engine, probably IAG.

I'm desperate to find out how you got these numbers. I mean, the types are obvious, but the scale is interesting.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 9):
More importantly I expect Airbus Financial Services to place lots of currently stored A340s with them. Probably for a knockdown price.

That would be a very very interesting order!


Is there any word about a spare parts for the existing IR Airbus fleet?
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RE: Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 33):
IKA-LAX is only not doable with the A332 in an economic way, so they could get some A340 while waiting for the A350.

There are plenty of newish A330s coming off lease. If nonstops were not really necessary, they could do IKA-SNN-LAX or IKA-CTS-LAX with those in the meantime, until more suitable aircraft come along.
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astuteman
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RE: Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:41 pm

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 26):
The A338, maybe, but even then I'm not sure.

I would have thought an A338 wouldn't have any trouble at all on IKA-LAX. It has the legs of an A343

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 25):
Looking at the payload / range chart a 233T A332 should be able to haul some 25 tonne over a length of 6600 nm

A 242t A338 should haul 25t to 7 500Nm, according to Airbus specs

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RE: Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:15 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but have ANY of the sanctions even been lifted yet? In fact, is the agreement reached earlier this year even in force yet? Additionally, the sanctions that prevented Iran from buying Western made planes were US sanctions specifying that they couldn't buy aircraft with more than 10% US made parts (which is everything but Russian and Chinese planes with Russian and Chinese engines and avionics). I thought those would be gradually phased out but not immediately?

Let me know if I'm off base.

Also, more relevant to the discussion, I don't think Iran will buy Airbus, and I don't think they will buy new right off the bat. For Iran Air and Mahan I see their fleets evolving slightly to grab used 744s, A343s, and A346s. Maybe even a few used 777s. The domestic airlines will probably be doing most of the upgrading at first, and they will probably go for anything in the 100 seat jet range and grab a few 150 seaters too, from any supplier.

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Chaostheory
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RE: Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:26 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 8):
Despite IKA being 1,007 m/3,300 ft above sea level?
Quoting aryonoco (Reply 26):
and IKA is at 1,000 above sea levels.
Quoting aryonoco (Reply 27):
Does this take IKA's altitude and hot summers into account?

The elevation at IKA isn't an issue for an A330. I never had any issues in an A321 and the SIDS to the West (PARIT?) aren't as restrictive.

On the occasion we sent an A330 to Sanaa which is higher, hotter, more restrictive climb gradients and lower TODA, we could lift 210t with 772B engines. Performance would be much better with current 772C engines.

All this is besides the point however as I don't think the A330 payload range is sufficient for viable Iran-NA ops.
 
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RE: Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting Chaostheory (Reply 44):
On the occasion we sent an A330 to Sanaa which is higher, hotter, more restrictive climb gradients and lower TODA, we could lift 210t with 772B engines. Performance would be much better with current 772C engines.

210t out of Sanaa? Impressive! That's much more than the publicly available documents would suggest...
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RE: Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:53 pm

Quoting A342 (Reply 45):
210t out of Sanaa? Impressive!

If you think that's impressive, you should have a look at the A310s performance. They could lift at least 151t out of a max 157.9t from there most days.
 
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BaconButty
Posts: 812
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:42 pm

RE: Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:59 pm

Quoting irelayer (Reply 43):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but have ANY of the sanctions even been lifted yet?

Not as such - implementation is expected sometime around next April, and the temporary relief doesn't touch on aviation matters (I think).

There's detailed advice on what's permitted from an EU Aviation perspective here:
http://www.twobirds.com/en/news/arti...cted-extensive-relief-of-sanctions
Key points:
- Exploratory/Marketing activity can be undertaken with caution
- Aircraft sales are prohibited
- In activities where US sanctions come into play, authorisation can be sought where it involves the safe operation of Iranian commercial passenger aircraft (the US loosened sanctions - or rather granted more export licences - in this regard in 2014 iirc)

Note: EU sanctions were not as strict as the US ones in terms of spares, as long as the parts were not military dual use.

So if any "sale" happens, it'll be an MOU at most I would have thought.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:03 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 22):

Perhaps the A338?  

But seriously, Iran is not buying for US flights at this time.

Quoting Chaostheory (Reply 44):

20 to 30 tons light will hit US range. The lovely wing of the A359 would be the best choice. Even better, this is an ideal route for the 778.

Quoting irelayer (Reply 43):

77Es are available. We have a thread on resale values periodically:
Aircraft Values, And Lease Pricing - Fall 2015 (by LAXintl Nov 10 2015 in Civil Aviation)

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
Chaostheory
Posts: 1134
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:09 am

RE: Iran Air To Buy Airbus Planes Next Week?

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:14 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 48):
20 to 30 tons light will hit US range.

There wouldn't be any payload hit from IKA for an A330.

I gave the Sanaa numbers as an example to illustrate the A330s very good hot/high performance.

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