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TheSonntag
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:44 pm

Helmut Schmidt, West German Chancellor from 1974 to 1982 died yesterday. He was one of the most popular elder statesmen in Germany, actually one of the most popular people in Germany at the moment.

Part of his popularity comes from the fact that he always had to manage difficult situations. In 1962 when Hamburg was flooded he ordered the NATO military to send helicopters into the flooded areas, saving many people, without being authorised to do so, since the german constitution at that time did not allow the military to be used for national disasters.

Aviation-wise, he ordered the GSG-9 anti-terror mission in 1977 im Somalia, Mogadishu, where german commandos entered a highjacked Boeing 737 - Landshut, shooting all but one of the highjackers without loss.

There is talk now to rename the airport in Hamburg into Helmut Schmidt airport. While naming airports after politicians can always be discussed, I personally think this is an appropriate step.
 
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lesfalls
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:52 pm

Quite a good idea. But the airport hasn't released a date on when they will rename the airport right?
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lancelot07
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:37 pm

It would be a well deserved honor for Schmidt, who steered Germany (and Europe) well through very challenging times.
 
C010T3
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:57 pm

When will this renaming spree of airports in honor of politicians end? The Bayers started it, now everybody wants it. Shall we keep HHN reserved for Kohl, HAJ for Schröder and RLG for Gauck?
 
lancelot07
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:59 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 3):
The Bayers started it,

New Yorkers were first  
 
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seahawk
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:02 pm

I like it. His name is connected to Hamburg.
 
AWACSooner
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:01 pm

So...which airport does Merkel get? BER?  
 
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LTU932
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:24 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
There is talk now to rename the airport in Hamburg into Helmut Schmidt airport.

This is in fact an idea that floated around in my mind for quite some time. I'm all for it! It also fits perfectly geographically with him, because Helmut Schmidt lived in Hamburg-Langenhorn, and part of the airport's northeastern side is in Langenhorn.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 6):
So...which airport does Merkel get? BER?

That honour already belongs to Willy Brandt, who was mayor of (West-)Berlin from 1957 to 1966, when he joined the federal government in Bonn.  
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
AWACSooner
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:46 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 7):
That honour already belongs to Willy Brandt, who was mayor of (West-)Berlin from 1957 to 1966, when he joined the federal government in Bonn.

But it wasn't his tenure that saw the boondoggle that is BER.
 
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LTU932
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 8):
But it wasn't his tenure that saw the boondoggle that is BER.

True, but I presume that naming BER after Willy Brandt has a lot to do with the things he's done for Germany. In the case of Helmut Schmidt and HAM, it's to honour not just a son of the city, but also to honour a former interior senator of Hamburg who acted quickly and decisively in the wake of the flood in 1962, and who as chancellor was responsible for getting the country through one of its darkest times, as well as laying the foundations for what became the Euro (among many things).

Angela Merkel isn't personally to blame for the BER fiasco, that blame lies with the people responsible in Potsdam and in Berlin's city hall.
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Viscount724
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:04 am

Quoting lancelot07 (Reply 4):
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 3):
The Bayers started it,

New Yorkers were first

LGA probably one of the first airports named for a politician, although the name didn't become official until 1947. Until then it was officially New York Municipal Airport, but was commonly referred to as LaGuardia.
 
PanHAM
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:04 am

That seems to be agreed almost across all parties except the communists. It may take 2 years to happen since Hanseatic protocol demands that Kind of "cooling off" period. Streets are usually named after politicians 2 years after they deceased. Still chances are good that Schmidt gets a working Airport named after him quicker than Brandt.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 6):
So...which airport does Merkel get? BER?


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C010T3
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:07 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
LGA probably one of the first airports named for a politician, although the name didn't become official until 1947. Until then it was officially New York Municipal Airport, but was commonly referred to as LaGuardia.

I was talking about airports within Germany. AFAIK, MUC was first, then CGN.
 
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anfromme
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:22 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 3):
When will this renaming spree of airports in honor of politicians end? The Bayers started it, now everybody wants it. Shall we keep HHN reserved for Kohl, HAJ for Schröder and RLG for Gauck?

None of them have as close a connection with their respective home townes as Schmidt does, though. See LTU932's post above for a few pointers as to why he's so popular in Hamburg, regardless of any party-political affiliations one might have.
Additionally, appreciation for Schmidt's chancellorship - by friend and foe - only really came about a decade after it had ended, and he remained an influential political analyst and advisor right through the end.
As an elder statesman he had approval ratings that any active politician (including, notably, himself back in the day) would dream of. He was the one politician everybody in my family could agree on, regardless of whether one agreed with anything and everything he said and did.

Whether the same will be said in a few years' time about the people you mentioned remains to be seen, although I wouldn't rule out an airport being named after Kohl, not least thanks to the role he played in reunifying Germany. CGN would have been an obvious choice, but that's already taken and I doubt the name of the first post-war chancellor Adenauer will be dropped in favour of Kohl.

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 6):
So...which airport does Merkel get? BER?  

As has been pointed out before, BER will be named after Willy Brandt. Also, Merkel was born in Hamburg  

Anyway - hadn't heard of the proposition before, but I'd be in favour of naming HAM after Schmidt.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 11):
Streets are usually named after politicians 2 years after they deceased. Still chances are good that Schmidt gets a working Airport named after him quicker than Brandt.

 
Apparently, that cooling-off period is not cast in stone, either. It's usually just the done thing, not legally binding or anything like that. Although I agree it's usually a sensible thing to do.

[Edited 2015-11-12 01:32:35]

[Edited 2015-11-12 01:34:40]
42
 
PanHAM
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:56 am

How many Airports we got, named after important persons?

MUC Franz-Josef Strauss, strong leation to Location,

NUE Albrecht-Duerer-Airlport Important Artist , lived about 500 years ago

STR Erwin-Rommel-Airport popular Mayor of Stuttgart

CGN Konrad-Adenauer-Airport First Chancellor of post war Germany, strong ties to Bonn, but also to Cologne where he was an important Mayor. Had to leave Office in the 40s because he did not flag the City for Hitler's visit

BER Willy-Brandt-Airport - what Adenauer did in the early 50s, binding the new Germany to the west balliance, Brandt did in the early 70s when the time was ripe to renew ties to the East

That does not leave much open, besides DUS and HAJ there is BRE, LEJ and probably DRS. Any other Airport naming for important persons would rather be an Insult
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C010T3
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:07 am

Quoting anfromme (Reply 13):
None of them have as close a connection with their respective home townes as Schmidt does, though. See LTU932's post above for a few pointers as to why he's so popular in Hamburg, regardless of any party-political affiliations one might have.

I would disagree that Kohl doesn't have a close connection to LU, but the city lacks an airport and no airport in the Palatinate would do him justice in comparison to the others. I don't think even HHN would.
I'm not questioning Schmidt as a reputable name to have HAM renamed after him, but it is fact that many airports in Germany have been renamed after politicians, even recently. NUE is the only exception I can think of right now.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 13):
Additionally, appreciation for Schmidt's chancellorship - by friend and foe - only really came about a decade after it had ended, and he remained an influential political analyst and advisor right through the end.

Well, time tends to bring out the good.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 13):
Whether the same will be said in a few years' time about the people you mentioned remains to be seen, although I wouldn't rule out an airport being named after Kohl, not least thanks to the role he played in reunifying Germany.

I have no doubt about it. Kohl's name has surely been dragged through mud, but not too long from now it will all be reduced to some footnotes in his biography.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 13):
CGN would have been an obvious choice, but that's already taken and I doubt the name of the first post-war chancellor Adenauer will be dropped in favour of Kohl.

Well, if a large airport is needed for the honour, there is always FRA.
 
vfw614
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:25 am

The situation in Hamburg may be slightly different as public honors are considered as somewhat unpatriotic by traditionalists. Therefore quite a few tradition-conscious folks from Hamburg have refused gongs. So who knows - maybe chain-smoking Helmut Schmidt would consider it more appropriate if the smokers' lounges at HAM airport were extended and named after him in his memory...

Quoting anfromme (Reply 13):
As an elder statesman he had approval ratings that any active politician (including, notably, himself back in the day) would dream of.

In fact, at the grand old age of 90 he was voted the "coolest German dude alive" in a public poll, ahead of hipster actors, singers and sportsmen.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 9):
True, but I presume that naming BER after Willy Brandt has a lot to do with the things he's done for Germany.

More with him being the Mayor of Berlin from 1957 to 1966 and thus during the most challenging period for Berlin when the Wall was built.
 
PanHAM
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:29 am

How could I Forget FRA. Chancellor Kohl's Name will never be seen at an Airport gate, Same as he never got the Nobel Peace Price and he is one Person who deserved that one,, if needed together with Gorbachev and Herbert Walker Bush.

Naming HHN after him would be an Insult and FRA simply has nothin to do with Rhineland Palatine except that the capitals of the first and of the state of Hesse mirror each other on the left and the right Banks of the river Rhine. There was no outstanding politician from Hesse since the new Germany was created who would deserve the honor.
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Heavierthanair
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:39 am

G'day

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 3):
keep HHN reserved for Kohl

You cannot be serious naming an animal - more specifically a bird - after a vegetable.

For the non German crowd: HHN is Hahn airport. The German word Hahn means cock (that's the zoological meaning to make that clear) in English or rooster in American. The German word Kohl means cabbage (botanical), both in English and American. So clearly cock/rooster and cabbage do not fit.
  


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LGAviation
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:46 am

They really should rename HAM. As a Hamburger, I feel it is appropriate to honor Mr. Schmidt by renaming the airport and also it might improve the airport's brad recognition.
2018: ADD CPH DAR DEN DME DUB FRA HAH HAM IST JIB KEF LYR MEL OSL PEK PKC PVG RAK STN SVO SYD YVR
 
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EPA001
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:48 am

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
There is talk now to rename the airport in Hamburg into Helmut Schmidt airport. While naming airports after politicians can always be discussed, I personally think this is an appropriate step.

I think this to be an excellent idea to honour the mans legacy.  
 
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LTU932
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:08 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 3):
HHN reserved for Kohl

HHN has geographically not even remotely anything to do with Helmut Kohl (except perhaps that he was state prime minister of Rheinland-Pfalz before going to Bonn). He is from Ludwigshafen, so the closest thing to a local airport that can be named after Kohl is MHG. Ludwigshafen in Rheinland-Pfalz and Mannheim in Baden-Württemberg are neighbouring cities that even share the same telephone area code, so it would fit better than HHN.
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Viscount724
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:13 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
LGA probably one of the first airports named for a politician, although the name didn't become official until 1947. Until then it was officially New York Municipal Airport, but was commonly referred to as LaGuardia.

I was talking about airports within Germany. AFAIK, MUC was first, then CGN.

I was replying to the "New Yorkers were first" comment.
 
WearyDrover
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:26 am

Let us not forget that Helmut Schmidt also strove to ensure that in the 1950s Lufthansa chose Hamburg as the base for its operations. His efforts contributed to Lufthansa Technik being located at HAM. LH's first flights were from Hamburg to München and vv and when international operations commenced to the US, they also started from HAM.

Without his striving to ensure an aviation future for Hamburg the situation could have been very different. In this instance, it seems appropriate to name the airport after a politician who tried to ensure its place.

[Edited 2015-11-12 17:31:19]
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N1120A
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:42 am

STR should hold out for Joschka Fischer.

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
Helmut Schmidt, West German Chancellor from 1974 to 1982 died yesterday. He was one of the most popular elder statesmen in Germany, actually one of the most popular people in Germany at the moment.
Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
There is talk now to rename the airport in Hamburg into Helmut Schmidt airport. While naming airports after politicians can always be discussed, I personally think this is an appropriate step.

This would be excellent. Schmidt was a true great.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 15):
Well, if a large airport is needed for the honour, there is always FRA.

FRA shouldn't be named after anyone - and especially not Kohl.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
C010T3
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:42 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
How many Airports we got, named after important persons?

Well, there is Tegel as well with Otto Lilienthal.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 17):


How could I Forget FRA. Chancellor Kohl's Name will never be seen at an Airport gate, Same as he never got the Nobel Peace Price and he is one Person who deserved that one,, if needed together with Gorbachev and Herbert Walker Bush.

Naming HHN after him would be an Insult and FRA simply has nothin to do with Rhineland Palatine except that the capitals of the first and of the state of Hesse mirror each other on the left and the right Banks of the river Rhine. There was no outstanding politician from Hesse since the new Germany was created who would deserve the honor.

Well if Kleinstaaterei will come in the way...

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 21):
He is from Ludwigshafen, so the closest thing to a local airport that can be named after Kohl is MHG.

A Mannheimer airport being named after a Ludwigshafener? Not happening!
 
prebennorholm
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:11 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
STR Erwin-Rommel-Airport popular Mayor of Stuttgart

That must be a joke. There will certainly never be an Erwin Rommel Airport.

STR is named (or is to be named) Manfred Rommel Airport. (City mayor for well over two decades).

I am not a big fan of naming airport after persons. Such names easily get too long to be used. From here I can choose endless daily flights to MUC or CGN, but nobody, absolutely nobody, would have any idea where I was going if I told them I was going to Franz-Josef Strauss Airport or - the worst of them all - Konrad Adenauer Airport.

Also nobody would go to John F. Kennedy Airport, but when the Americans have a habit of three letter abbreviations for their presidents, and it corresponds with IATA codes.... JFK and CDG are more acceptable.

But since it's a German habit, then so be it. It's their choice. And when it comes to HAM, then certainly Helmut Schmidt is the obvious choice.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
N1120A
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:18 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 26):
That must be a joke. There will certainly never be an Erwin Rommel Airport.

STR is named (or is to be named) Manfred Rommel Airport. (City mayor for well over two decades).

Well, Manfred Rommel was the son of the Generalfeldmarschal.
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prebennorholm
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:47 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Well, Manfred Rommel was the son of the Generalfeldmarschal.

Yup, know that. But he must have been quite different in many ways. At least he was differently decorated. For instance with OBE (Most Excellent Order of the British Empire). I guess that was earned from the books he wrote, but I don't know for sure.

He hardly knew his father, except as a small kid. He was 11 years old when his father conquered Belgium and France, and he was 15 when Hitler ordered his father to commit suiside.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Unflug
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:52 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Well, Manfred Rommel was the son of the Generalfeldmarschal.

Sure, but still a completely different person...
 
N1120A
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Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:54 am

Quoting Unflug (Reply 29):
Sure, but still a completely different person...
Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 28):
He hardly knew his father, except as a small kid. He was 11 years old when his father conquered Belgium and France, and he was 15 when Hitler ordered his father to commit suiside.

Well, Manfred did serve in the military during WWII. That said, it was Erwin Rommel that told Manfred to not join the Wafen-SS. Rommel was generally known as the less of a Nazi and more of a soldier doing his service.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:14 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 30):
Well, Manfred did serve in the military during WWII.

From Wiki:

In February 1945, Rommel was dismissed from Air Force service and in March 1945 he was conscripted to the paramilitary Reichsarbeitsdienst service (National Labor Service). Being in the town of Riedlingen by the end of April, immediately before the French First Army taking over, he deserted. He was taken prisoner of war, disclosed the truth about his father’s death and was interrogated by General Jean de Lattre de Tassigny.

He was of course, like everybody else, a member of Hitler Jugend, and when 16 years old he had to serve.

The name Erwin Rommel you find as graffiti on the horrible bunkers which he ordered built on my otherwise beautiful west coast beaches. It fits a lot better there than on an airport. For millions we this year got rid of 60 of the most ugly and most dangerous bunkers, but there are still more than 2,000 to go.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
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LTU932
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:12 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 26):
That must be a joke. There will certainly never be an Erwin Rommel Airport.

Not to be too off-topic, but AFAIK there is even today a military base named after Erwin Rommel. Correct me if I'm wrong. And yes, I also wanted to mention the mix-up between Erwin and Manfred on the subject of STR.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
ThReaTeN
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:44 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 31):
The name Erwin Rommel you find as graffiti on the horrible bunkers which he ordered built on my otherwise beautiful west coast beaches. It fits a lot better there than on an airport. For millions we this year got rid of 60 of the most ugly and most dangerous bunkers, but there are still more than 2,000 to go.

Are we supposed to feel sorry for you because he apparently left ugly bunkers in your country? Erwin Rommel might never get an airport named after him in the German Federal Republic (unlike his son, as noted) but he is honored both in today's Germany and in former Allied countries (the US and the UK especially, I would say) as one of the greatest generals in history and as a hero both for his service to Germany's military, his honorable conduct throughout the war and for his resistance against Hitler.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 32):
Not to be too off-topic, but AFAIK there is even today a military base named after Erwin Rommel. Correct me if I'm wrong. And yes, I also wanted to mention the mix-up between Erwin and Manfred on the subject of STR.

You are correct: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalfeldmarschall-Rommel-Kaserne_(Augustdorf)

[Edited 2015-11-12 21:47:31]

[Edited 2015-11-12 21:48:00]
 
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thekorean
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:46 am

BER should be named after Erick Honecker, apporpriately.
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:08 am

In my opinion it's never a good idea to name airports after politicians. I know of a few politicians that would make me steer clear of any insitution or facility that was named in their honor. It alienates large portions of the population. I'm sure there are plenty of Germans who absolutely hate the guy.

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 31):
The name Erwin Rommel you find as graffiti on the horrible bunkers which he ordered built on my otherwise beautiful west coast beaches. It fits a lot better there than on an airport. For millions we this year got rid of 60 of the most ugly and most dangerous bunkers, but there are still more than 2,000 to go.


Is this in Denmark? In Norway we removed a lot of the German installations right after the war, and put into use a few others. They tried demolishing the U-boot pen Dora 1 in Trondheim for a while, but gave up. It was impossible. Main guns of German battleships were installed in various coastal fortresses. Steel plates from the battleship Tirpitz are used even today by Oslo Kommune during road and sewage construction for covering up temporary holes and so on. The last decades or so, we've left the remaining German military installations alone. It's part of our history. It's a shame you feel the need to remove such things.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:21 am

My names memory is awful. My apologies, of course it is Manfred Rommel and not his father.

Quoting thekorean (Reply 34):
BER should be named after Erick Honecker, apporpriately.


A Democracy will never honor former dictators
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thekorean
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:31 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 36):

Is it really an honor being named for a massive debacle and a synonym for failure?
 
PanHAM
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:23 am

You could call that Sippenhaft. The responsible persons for the "massive debacle and synonym for failure at BER are leaders of the same Party Brandt was in.

Unless his sons withdraw their approval to Name that Airport after their father, BER will be named after Willy Brandt.
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anfromme
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:21 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 37):
Is it really an honor being named for a massive debacle and a synonym for failure?

It's still (going to be) the airport of Germany's capital and the neighbouring Bundesland.
You'd be hard-pressed to find anybody willing to name anything much after Honecker these days, even an outhouse.
Incidentally, other suggestions for BER at the time were Albert Einstein and Marlene Dietrich. I think Willy Brandt is certainly a much better choice.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 38):
You could call that Sippenhaft. The responsible persons for the "massive debacle and synonym for failure at BER are leaders of the same Party Brandt was in.

Among others. The CDU was generally on board with all things BER (they laid the original plans and chose the location), and the major screw-ups were committed by various contractors, led by Imtech as the worst of the pack...

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 38):
Unless his sons withdraw their approval to Name that Airport after their father, BER will be named after Willy Brandt.

How do these things work, actually? If somebody wants to name a public place (school, airport, barracks, street) after a public figure, is permission from the estate of the deceased required?
I.e. if Schmidt's daughter thinks that her father wouldn't have liked having the airport named after him it's not going to happen?
42
 
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:18 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 6):
So...which airport does Merkel get? BER?

Yes!

Err...

Quoting thekorean (Reply 34):
BER should be named after Erick Honecker, apporpriately.

No, after Walter Ulbricht, another GDR politician. He said "Niemand hat die Absicht, eine Mauer zu errichten!" (Nobody intends to construct a wall!), which is a fitting theme for an airport that will never get finished.


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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:24 pm

Quoting anfromme (Reply 39):

Among others. The CDU was generally on board with all things BER (they laid the original plans and chose the location), and the major screw-ups were committed by various contractors, led by Imtech as the worst of the pack...

According to an article in the Zeit I read a few months ago, architect, who worked with Imtech before warned about their dodgy business practices, but the German tendering process apparently did not permit the choice of another company, as Imtech made the lowest priced offer on paper and there were not legal investigations concerning Imtech going on at this time.
Imtech seems to have a practice of making a ridiculous low offer during a tendering process, so that they then get the contract. Once they have it, they start extorting more money from the customers. The customers can't fire them, because Imtech deliberately messes up the documentation so that any other company would have to start over from the beginning and that it would be cheaper to keep on paying Imtech than to get a better competitor in.

But now it seems to be over, as they apparently overdid it and now the prosecutor is involved and they are bankrupt.


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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:25 pm

Quoting anfromme (Reply 39):
Among others. The CDU was generally on board with all things BER (they laid the original plans and chose the location), and the major screw-ups were committed by various contractors, led by Imtech as the worst of the pack...

The original planning was in the early 90s when no one could foresee the developent of the Airports Berlin we experience since about 10 to 15 years. The lack of Vision to chanhge the planning and adapt to the Needs, including to Keep TXL, was Wowereits and Platzecks fault.

Quoting anfromme (Reply 39):
How do these things work, actually? If somebody wants to name a public place (school, airport, barracks, street) after a public

Very simple, the State Government, which in Hamburg is the "Senat" agrees on and prepars a Proposition which goes to the Parliament, in Hamburg that is the "Buergerschaft" and the parliament approves the propositio or not. If positive, it becomes law with the effect of making the law public in the official newsprints.

If Frau Schmidt thinks it would be too much of an honor or she has discussed that with her father, (such a move to Name the Airport after him was likely and foreseeable ) she will call the Mayor and tell him the Mayor and the other Senators would certainly respect that wish.


I forgot to mention the Bezirksregierung (Borrough parliament) which gets the Proposition for approval as well. If the Family approves, this all goes through the instances like butter.

[Edited 2015-11-13 05:31:14]
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:44 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 40):
No, after Walter Ulbricht, another GDR politician. He said "Niemand hat die Absicht, eine Mauer zu errichten!" (Nobody intends to construct a wall!), which is a fitting theme for an airport that will never get finished.

You can actually buy souvenir postcards in Berlin with a photo of Ulbricht and the words "Niemand hat die Absicht, einen Flughafen zu errichten" ("Nobody has the intention of building an airport"). Do an image search using your favourite search engine and you'll find it  
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 42):
Very simple, the State Government, which in Hamburg is the "Senat" agrees on and prepars a Proposition which goes to the Parliament, in Hamburg that is the "Buergerschaft" and the parliament approves the propositio or not.

I think I read that it's not just up to the Bürgerschaft etc., but also to the board of the airport itself (of which Schmidt was an honorary member, of course).
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:29 pm

Great or not I depise the idea of naming airports after politicians or anyone famous for that matter. When it was discussed to name LHR after Princess Diana I was happy when they decided not to.

Airports are airports and naming after people for patriotic/nationalistic reasons is stupid. So many foreigners travel through HAM every year they will have no point of reference.

There are plenty of other ways to remember people...
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:23 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 44):
Great or not I depise the idea of naming airports after politicians or anyone famous for that matter. When it was discussed to name LHR after Princess Diana I was happy when they decided not to.

That's a completely different league from naming an airport after Schmidt, Adenauer or Kennedy, though.
At best, I'd consider her a royal celebrity with some sort of a moral conscience. And I don't even have anything against her in particular. There are lots of fairly nice people that I still wouldn't want to name airports after.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 44):
Airports are airports and naming after people for patriotic/nationalistic reasons is stupid. So many foreigners travel through HAM every year they will have no point of reference.

They don't have a point of reference today, either.
Also, I don't think that naming HAM after Schmidt would be patriotic/nationalistic at all. He was one of the foremost proponents of European integration (i.e. less nationalism in Germany), a keen traveller and observer/analyst of international politics. Much less provincial than pretty much any German (or British, for that matter) politician you care to name. So to associate his name with the airport of his home town, which has been a port to immigrants and emigrants alike for over a century makes perfect sense to me.

Having said that - if this whole thing somehow falls through everybody is going to just shrug and carry on. There are more important things in life, as Schmidt himself would have been the first to agree.
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:37 pm

I might add something whoich has not been mentioned here yet. Chancellor Schmidts house was located in Langenhorn, which takes a fairley good number of approaches into HAM. I've never been to his street but he llived not too far away from the flight path. That does not justify to Name the Airport after him, of course. But his life achievement does and I say that as a member of an poosing Party. There is broad consent about that across the parties in Germany
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:08 pm

Quoting anfromme (Reply 45):
Having said that - if this whole thing somehow falls through everybody is going to just shrug and carry on. There are more important things in life, as Schmidt himself would have been the first to agree.

IIRC they did name some locations after Loki Schmidt, Helmut's late wife. Specifically, the botanical garden, now Loki-Schmidt-Garten, to honour Mrs Schmidt for her work as a botanist and environmentalist. Even plants are named after her, so I', sure that whatever namings came after she died, went with approval by Mr Schmidt and/or his daughter Susanne. The point is, that if Susanne Schmidt approves the naming of HAM after her later father, it will be a carefully taken decision. As long as people don't go crazy with it, I'm sure even Helmut Schmidt would've been open to consider it.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 46):
I might add something whoich has not been mentioned here yet. Chancellor Schmidts house was located in Langenhorn, which takes a fairley good number of approaches into HAM

Actually I did...

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 7):
Helmut Schmidt lived in Hamburg-Langenhorn, and part of the airport's northeastern side is in Langenhorn.

And yes, most landings are on RW 23, where the approach takes you right over Hummelsbüttel and Langenhorn.
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:42 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 47):
And yes, most landings are on RW 23, where the approach takes you right over Hummelsbüttel and Langenhorn.

His being hard of hearing in the last few years may have helped with that location.   I live underneath the approach for RW 33, which thankfully mostly sees use when RW 23 is closed.
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RE: Discussion To Rename HAM Helmut Schmidt Airport

Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:06 pm

Quoting anfromme (Reply 48):
I live underneath the approach for RW 33, which thankfully mostly sees use when RW 23 is closed.

I stayed in Alsterdorf for a while and saw quite a few approaches for RW 33. That was a sight to see. Where I now live, if you got good timing, you can see a RW 23 approach nice and low.  
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