B747forever
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BA 747 To SAN S16!

Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:42 pm

After reading a thread over at flyertalk and checking the BA schedule it looks like BA will be sending the 747-400 to SAN beginning S16. Looks like a swap with SFO that will get the 777 instead.


Exciting news for everyone at SAN.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
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SANFan
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:00 pm

Huh?!?! But they just recently announced the upgrade to the 773 starting in late March!

If this is really true, I'm flabbergasted...

bb
 
B747forever
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:05 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 1):
If this is really true, I'm flabbergasted...

If you make a dummy booking for anytime in S16 it shows up as a 747. Looks like you guys will get the queen of the skies!
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Sooner787
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:11 pm

Now that'll be quite a sight floating down towards Lindberg Field
 
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SANFan
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:16 pm

I see it in the BA booking engine (starting March 27, 2016) but I still don't really believe it! So apparently BA changed their minds from the announced change to a 773 which was announced in mid-September...

I'm sure the terminal can operationally handle the jumbo but I wonder if there will be some structural changes needed or made? I believe they have recently increased -- or are in the process of doing so now -- the size of the FIS processing area but for this potential number of pax?

I love it but I'm still scratching my head on this. I hope someone will be able to address the obvious question of what kind of payload hit a 744 heading out on the 10 1/2 hour journey to Heathrow will take?

bb
 
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Coronado990
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:19 pm

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 3):
Now that'll be quite a sight floating down towards Lindberg Field

What will be really interesting is watching it take the full original 8700' of runway to get airborne going non-stop to LHR. They'll definitely will be buzzing Pt. Loma this summer! What a surprise just when I wrote off the 747 ever appearing again in San Diego.
We're up.
 
bw50505
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:26 pm

If this is true I'll be going to the airport ALOT this summer.

bw50505
 
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SANFan
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:34 pm

I imagine there will be quite a crowd at the usual spotting locations next March 27!!

Is the "Lindy Hop" still required when a jumbo is headed from the terminal to the business end of 27, or have they cleared all the wing-clearance obstacles out of the way on the south taxiway -- anyone know?

I also wonder if the jetway for gate 21 can be used to access the starboard side of Speedbird, to supplement the one at gate 20 on the port side?

So many questions need to be asked!!!!

bb
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:35 pm

Great news for SAN! At first I feared the 744 would be coming from the LAS route (BA is adding 3 more frequencies w/ 744 from the same day, 27MAR), but OP says it's coming from SFO.

I never knew BA sent the 744 to SAN before, albeit via PHX: Why Did BA Stop 747s Into San Diego? (by Hockey55dude Jul 8 2003 in Civil Aviation)
 
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chrisnh
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:48 pm

Maybe they'll give the 77W to Boston. With the avalanche of new routes at BOS, I wonder whether BA is thinking they'll have too many seats BOS-LHR and dial it back a bit. A lot of people who would fill those 744s out of Boston are heading not necessarily to Leave neon, but elsewhere...places that now can be reached nonstop on other carriers. Still, maybe BOS can support 4x 744s in the high season in 2016. It will be interesting to see.
 
29erUSA187
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:12 am

Holy Crap!

I haven't been on this site for a while now, and I picked the right day to come back. I am going to Europe this summer and hopefully this is an option! I'll definitely be down there to take pictures.

Excited to see the 77W and THEN the 744!

-29er
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:27 am

How much if any penalty does BA take on passengers or cargo on the SAN to LHR segment given the runway and terrain (engine out) issues?
 
as739x
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:34 am

I wonder of this change of the 747 to 77W at SFO has something to do with the new SJC service, as BA is already adding a lot of lift to the Bay Area this summer

It will be nice to see the 747s in SAN again
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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TedToToe
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:36 am

Quoting B747forever (Thread starter):
Looks like a swap with SFO that will get the 777 instead.

I'm not sure about the SFO swap. I recently booked LHR-SFO-LHR for S16 (having checked multiple dates) and BA285/284 was showing 744 and BA287/286 A388.
 
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SANFan
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:46 am

My next question is which configuration of the 744 will 'our' Speedbird be? The 275-pax & the 299-pax ones are really no larger capacity than the T7s previously scheduled (and already announced) on the route. If BA is wanting more pax capacity in the market, then that would mean the 345-seater would be the one of choice.

On the other hand, if they want more cargo capacity -- assuming they would be able to get it out of Lindbergh with the 744 -- then maybe the pax capacity is irrelevant?

(I had no idea that the pax capacity of the 744 and the T7s was so similar.)

bb
 
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Miami
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:47 am

744 service will be until Oct. 29, 2016. 77W will then enter service.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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legacyins
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:49 am

Quoting TedToToe (Reply 13):
I'm not sure about the SFO swap. I recently booked LHR-SFO-LHR for S16 (having checked multiple dates) and BA285/284 was showing 744 and BA287/286 A388.

The 77W is showing in June on the SFO route.

[Edited 2015-11-11 16:57:33]
 
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SANFan
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:53 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 15):
744 service will be until Oct. 29, 2016. 77W will then enter service.

Ah, good find. So the 744 is for the peak summer season; makes sense. I will certainly be curious to see which 744 config is assigned to the market.

bb

[Edited 2015-11-11 17:09:46]
 
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SFOA380
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:19 am

So SFO/SJC gets 388/77W/789. Not a bad lineup!
 
bw50505
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:02 am

Now it's up on Airlineroutes. Definitely a curveball, given it seemed as though BA might send the 787-8 to SAN in addition to the 772 when rumors started popping up over the summer about a change to the route. It will be nice to see the 747 return, and once the 77W actually goes on the route, it will be the 4th type BA has sent to SAN throughout its history on the route:

DC10
B744
B772
B77W (has appeared as sub for the 772 but never as regularly scheduled yet)

bw50505
 
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SANFan
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:45 am

Quoting bw50505 (Reply 19):
Now it's up on Airlineroutes.

So I see. But there's no mention of any changes at SFO, as people on this thread are discussing...

bb
 
MKIAZ
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:51 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 11):
How much if any penalty does BA take on passengers or cargo on the SAN to LHR segment given the runway and terrain (engine out) issues?

I don't have any numbers, but I'd guess it's a decent penalty but not terrible, if that makes sense. Keep in mind JL operated SAN with a 772 when their 788's were grounded. While the flight is about the same distance, the winds over the pacific can add time.

And SAN isn't very hot, or high.

The 744 should help with the penalty though, since having 75% of power for engine out climb is better than 50% with a twin.
 
B747forever
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:02 am

Quoting TedToToe (Reply 13):
I'm not sure about the SFO swap. I recently booked LHR-SFO-LHR for S16 (having checked multiple dates) and BA285/284 was showing 744 and BA287/286 A388.

Check your booking again. Have looked at many different S16 dates, and BA285/284 shows up as 777 on all of them.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
warden145
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:52 am

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 18):
So SFO/SJC gets 388/77W/789. Not a bad lineup!

Except that the Queen's departing SFO for the last time...I suppose it was inevitable, but that doesn't make me any happier about it.         

Hopefully the A380 stays for good and 286/7 doesn't get downgraded...
ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
 
futureorthopod
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:48 am

awwwww man! I'm no longer in San Diego...as my training has taken me elsewhere. Perhaps I will have a chance to get back there. If that chance arises I will definitely be spotting from Liberty Station. The Queen of the sky will definitely turn heads as she climbs out of SAN (as well as when she lands).

This is probably a silly question given how short the runway is....but I'll ask it anyways: Will the pilots push the engines to full thrust to get her up and out safely?
 
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cathay747
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:40 pm

Perhaps this is where the 744 is coming from:

London Heathrow – Abuja eff 27MAR16 4-class 777-200ER continues operation, previously to be operated by 747-400

London Heathrow – San Diego eff 27MAR16 Boeing 747-400 replaces 777-200ER, daily (Previously scheduled to be operated by 777-300ER)

From airlineroute.net.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:13 pm

Every transatlantic route launched by BA in the past six years (LAS, SAN, AUS) has exceeded expectations. It does suggest that the airline has been quite conservative in its approach and there's more growth in new transatlantic routes.

[Edited 2015-11-12 06:14:11]
 
33lspotter
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:42 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 26):
Every transatlantic route launched by BA in the past six years (LAS, SAN, AUS) has exceeded expectations. It does suggest that the airline has been quite conservative in its approach and there's more growth in new transatlantic routes.

Absolutely. When you think of how many transatlantic routes that BA operates as opposed to U.S. carriers, it's quite small. Now granted the US has 5x the number of people that the UK does, and way more points of entry, but I couldn't even tell you the number of numerous 757 routes that each of AA, DL, and UA (and their predecessors) have attempted to operate and failed, whereas with BA everything is a 744, 772/3, 763, or A380. And given that BA is usually able to sustain those routes, it suggests that they've been more selective and it's worked.
 
kq787
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:45 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 26):
Every transatlantic route launched by BA in the past six years (LAS, SAN, AUS) has exceeded expectations. It does suggest that the airline has been quite conservative in its approach and there's more growth in new transatlantic routes

BA gets frequently lambasted for not expanding in Asia, South America and other parts of the world. it appears that the transatlantic routes are their bread and butter and they prefer to increase and focus expansion there as their business model
 
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SANFan
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:24 pm

IMHO, British Airways is a real hero in San Diego to me as a civil aviation addict here.

For decades, they have tried to make it work here -- 'it' being intercontinental nonstop service to Europe -- from our little postage stamp-sized airport. Other airlines figured that big airport 100 miles north was close enough so why bother?

Over those many years, BA tried 3 times and finally the circumstances fell into place and well, we (and they) have a winner! Now the carrier keeps setting the bar higher while the other European cx still settle for LA.

I'm very happy that our community has supported Speedbird so well, and continues to make BA glad for their efforts here.

I seriously never thought Lindbergh Field would see a scheduled 747 flying to another continent but here we are, thanks to British Airways! They have really shown respect and commitment to our little corner of the world and I appreciate it so much.

bb
 
JAAlbert
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:29 pm

Quoting bw50505 (Reply 19):
DC10
B744
B772
B77W (has appeared as sub for the 772 but never as regularly scheduled yet)

Actually, BA also flew the 747-200 (or was it the 300?) back in the late 80s. It flew to LAX to pick up passengers and more fuel then back to LHR. And for a period I believe the 747 flew to PHX then on to LHR. Has BA ever offered scheduled service to SAN on the 744?

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 21):
And SAN isn't very hot, or high.

It was pretty hot this past summer - we had days on end where the temperature rose to 81 degrees! We were miserable!  
 
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lindy field
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:43 pm

It's nice to see the upgrade. If my understanding of BA aircraft configurations is correct, BA must have decided that this was a route warranting a larger economy section rather than a larger business class section. It will be nice to see the 747 back at SAN in regular service.

For those recounting the history of British Airways in San Diego, I'll just remind you that it all started with British Caledonian flying via LAX.
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By the way, since the SAN thread is defunct, did any of you happen to notice that Delta has scheduled the 717 on some of its LAX and SEA turns at SAN later this winter?

Cheers,

Edward
 
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Ytraveller
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 29):
IMHO, British Airways is a real hero in San Diego to me as a civil aviation addict here.

I feel the same way here in LAS! Ever since they started LHR service in Oct 2009, I have flown the route several times and love BA... It makes connections to India etc. so easy. Granted BA probably isn't thinking much of LAS natives and more of tourists, but I'm sure they care a little.

I also respect BA for being the only transatlantic carrier at PHX, which I think deserves more of such service.

Again congrats SAN  
 
777ord
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:09 pm

excellent news!!!

The 773 is coming to SAN before the 744. They are continuously oversold EVERY NIGHT. It helps with the cruise line industry that is doing quite well here in SAN.

They were evaluating launching a mid afternoon LHR flight, due to the constant heavy cargo loads, but they went with a larger plane. Dunno why.

Can't wait to see her!
 
GolfBravoRomeo
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:44 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 7):
Is the "Lindy Hop" still required when a jumbo is headed from the terminal to the business end of 27, or have they cleared all the wing-clearance obstacles out of the way on the south taxiway -- anyone know?

The AFD states "Twy B rstd to acft with wingspans greater than 171 ́ between Twy B6 and Twy D." so still required.
 
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SANFan
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:15 pm

Quoting GolfBravoRomeo (Reply 34):
The AFD states "Twy B rstd to acft with wingspans greater than 171 ́ between Twy B6 and Twy D." so still required.

Thank you for that Golf'. I sure hope some day that issue will be fixed. With the potential for more, bigger a/c visiting SAN regularly and more and more daily op's at Lindbergh, the 'hop' will just become more and more disruptive.

Quoting 777ord (Reply 33):
It helps with the cruise line industry that is doing quite well here in SAN.

I sure hope the re-birth of the cruise business continues! It will certainly help us see more airline growth and expansion.

Quoting 777ord (Reply 33):
They were evaluating launching a mid afternoon LHR flight, due to the constant heavy cargo loads, but they went with a larger plane. Dunno why

I continue to wonder exactly which 744 config BA will be using next summer, depending on their desired mix of premium and economy seating and cargo capacity. Sounds like cargo is a big part of the decision to bring the Queen to SAN.

Quoting lindy field (Reply 31):
By the way, since the SAN thread is defunct, did any of you happen to notice that Delta has scheduled the 717 on some of its LAX and SEA turns at SAN later this winter?

Just yesterday I saw that next June, 2 of the 4 SAN-SEA flights are scheduled to op with 717s! I didn't even look at LA. Not really a surprise but it's nice to see something different, especially from DL!

bb
 
olddominion727
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:35 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but before PHX and SAN each had their own nonstops to LHR, they flew the 744 from LHR-SAN-PHX-LHR
 
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OA412
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:52 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 36):
Correct me if I am wrong, but before PHX and SAN each had their own nonstops to LHR, they flew the 744 from LHR-SAN-PHX-LHR

Mostly correct. The flight was routed LGW-PHX-SAN-PHX-LGW. It started with a D10, then transitioned to a 744. When those two cities along with DEN were moved to LHR around 2003-2004, each city received its own dedicated flight on the 772.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
san747
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:19 pm

Quite possibly the best news I've heard all year!   Definitely something I had always wanted (given my username obviously), but not something I expected to ever happen again. See you all for the first arrival next March!!
Scotty doesn't know...
 
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SANFan
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:20 pm

Here's my version of the history of BA at SAN (based on many resources):

Jan 1988 - SAN service began using BCal 747s via LAX
1989 - BA DC-10s used, still via LA. Service ended at the end of 1990.
Jul 1996 - BA re-started here with LGW-PHX-SAN on DC-10s
Mar 1998 - service upgraded to 747-400
Mar 2001 - new FIS facilities opened in T2 (gates 20/21) at SAN
Mar 2001 - daily n/s SAN-LGW began using B-777
Oct 2002 - flt switched to Heathrow, then ended in Oct 2003.
Jun 2011 - following approval of ATI between BA/AA/IB, daily SAN-LHR began again using T7s
Mar 2016 - u/g to 747-400!!!!

bb
 
vv701
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:21 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 36):
Correct me if I am wrong, but before PHX and SAN each had their own nonstops to LHR, they flew the 744 from LHR-SAN-PHX-LHR

Correct,

The last BA LGW-PHX-SAN-PHX-LGW (BA2289/88) rotation was operated by 744 G-BNLB on 24 March 2001. On the following day 772 G-YMMB operated the first LGW-SAN-LGW rotation carrying the temporary nose name 'Spirit of San Diego'.
 
JAAlbert
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:28 pm

I must now fly to LHR - I mean, how can I not? The opportunity to fly a scheduled 744 out of SAN is simply too extraordinary an opportunity to pass up - one I can tell my phantom grandchildren (since I don't actually even have children - but still)!

Think of the trip report ....
 
olddominion727
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:50 pm

I love the 747's too... one of my favorites, next to the 727, MD80... But the 744's have been to SAN before and a scheduled basis. Why is this such a big deal? BA has been known to forecast equipment, but when the time came, it was something different.




Also, regarding the 777 going to SFO w/the A380... Let's not forget the SJC-LHR on the 789. So the 777/789 Combo will more than make up for the loss of the 744 in SFO.
 
bw50505
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:07 pm

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 42):

The 744 hasn't served SAN as a regularly scheduled flight in over a decade. The fact we will get a 744 scheduled when they are beginning to be retired faster by both BA and operators around the world makes it even better. There's a chance that this will also be the last scheduled 747 service to SAN, ever, given the above and the increasing prominence of twins.

Plus many of us are younger spotters and those who haven't been spotting since the BA 747 was a normality at SAN but have been around long enough that the 772 that started in 2011 has not gotten boring but a lot less interesting. I also think this raises a question: could the 744 and then 77W induction onto SAN-LHR be the end of BA 772 ops to SAN?

bw50505

[Edited 2015-11-12 12:11:54]
 
Tristarsteve
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:18 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 35):
I continue to wonder exactly which 744 config BA will be using next summer,

The SAN B744 will be normally scheduled as a mid-J aircraft with 14/52/36/235 seats.
 
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SANFan
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:57 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 44):
The SAN B744 will be normally scheduled as a mid-J aircraft with 14/52/36/235 seats

Thanks for that.

Just a detail question. The BA website shows 3 744 configs, one being 14/52/36/243 for a total of 345 seats. Is what you call 'mid-J' a variation of that or is the website outdated?

I will be curious to find out what the cargo capacity of the 744 will be out of SAN, and how much greater it will be compared to the T7?

bb
 
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DocLightning
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:17 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 11):
How much if any penalty does BA take on passengers or cargo on the SAN to LHR segment given the runway and terrain (engine out) issues?

SAN's runway is 9401 feet long. I'm not sure which RB-211 BA's 744s have, but when I look at the runway length requirements, I see an MTOW for that runway at sea level (SAN is 14 feet at one end and 16 feet at the other) of about 820,000 lbs. The MTOW for the 744 is 875,000 lbs. So there is a penalty but it's not a huge one. Also, SAN is warm, but rarely hot.

Now, remember, the runway length charts are for runway length required, not for the amount of runway the aircraft will actually use. It will use substantially less on a normal takeoff, but the additional length is required for engine-out scenarios.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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Tristarsteve
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:58 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 45):
The BA website shows 3 744 configs, one being 14/52/36/243 for a total of 345 seats

That is not correct.
There are presently 3 configs.
Hi J which has 14/70/30/185.
Super Hi J which has 14/86/30/145.
and mid J.
All the Hi J are being converted to Super hi J, and will be complete by July next year.
Then there will be 18 super hi J and 20 mid J.

[Edited 2015-11-12 14:01:59]
 
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TedToToe
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:44 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 22):
Check your booking again. Have looked at many different S16 dates, and BA285/284 shows up as 777 on all of them.

The switch from 744 to 77W must have been loaded very recently. We are booked on BA287/286 which, I presume, is still showing A388.

Quoting warden145 (Reply 23):
Hopefully the A380 stays for good and 286/7 doesn't get downgraded...

My wife would agree with you!
 
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IslandRob
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RE: BA 747 To SAN S16!

Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:46 pm

It will be very cool to see the BA 747 grace the San Diego skies again! -ir
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'Cause I've been on some other planet
So come pick me up, I've landed

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Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos