wwtraveler99
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WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:07 am

http://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/n...nion-leader-resigns.html?ana=yahoo

I didn't see this posted yet. Seem like there are many that think Gary Kelly has another card up his sleeve.

"Jackson's exit comes as rumors continue to swirl that Southwest Airlines (NYAS Air Limited (Kenya)">SE: LUV) CEO Gary Kelly is eager to orchestrate another airline merger, possibly with JetBlue (NASDAQ: BLU) or Frontier Airlines."


Very interesting. I have heard rumors about another WN merger. But it has been HA or AS in the rumor mill. I think we can count F9 as a diversion. I don't see anyway that WN acquires F9.


So let yet another thread about another WN merger begin.



WW
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:12 am

Please_make_the_mergers_stop.

Signed - Everyone.

-Dave
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airliner371
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:23 am

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Thread starter):
I didn't see this posted yet. Seem like there are many that think Gary Kelly has another card up his sleeve.

"Jackson's exit comes as rumors continue to swirl that Southwest Airlines (NYAS Air Limited (Kenya)">SE: LUV) CEO Gary Kelly is eager to orchestrate another airline merger, possibly with JetBlue (NASDAQ: BLU) or Frontier Airlines."


Very interesting. I have heard rumors about another WN merger. But it has been HA or AS in the rumor mill. I think we can count F9 as a diversion. I don't see anyway that WN acquires F9.


So let yet another thread about another WN merger begin.

There's no way F9 will happen, as you say, it's probably a diversion.

I'll probably get a lot of nay sayers for this but I think WN will eventually buy JetBlue. They would bring so much to WN, NYC and BOS, both very important business cities, they would be the largest airline in the Caribbean overnight, they would be a Florida power house and it would strengthen their position in the northeast.

I could even see them divesting some LGA and DCA slots and the ORD gate to the likes of VX, NK, F9 and other smaller carriers to make the DOJ happy. Let's be real folks, the DOJ wouldn't stop this, especially not with divestures like I mentioned and there isn't much overlap between the two carriers anyway. The carrier would still be smaller than DL and AA.

This would be very different from the AirTran acquisition, the AirTran acquisition was Southwest taking the AirTran routes it wanted and dumping the rest of AirTran, I see JetBlue as more of a combining of two airlines with Southwest actually adopting things from JetBlue.

I have to wonder if Southwest going to JetBlue headquarters about codesharing was really about codesharing or if it was a diversion from merger/acquisition talks.

I definitely think this would be a good business decision for Southwest and JetBlue.
 
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:29 am

If WN is going to do a deal with someone, it's not going to be an F9 or HA. If I had to guess, it'd be AS, but jetBlue actually makes a ton of sense from both market penetration and killing off the one carrier that has national breadth and a better overall product but still is an LCC.

-Dave
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dbo861
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:31 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 2):
This would be very different from the AirTran acquisition, the AirTran acquisition was Southwest taking the AirTran routes it wanted and dumping the rest of AirTran, I see JetBlue as more of a combining of two airlines with Southwest actually adopting things from JetBlue.

I have to wonder if Southwest going to JetBlue headquarters about codesharing was really about codesharing or if it was a diversion from merger/acquisition talks.

I definitely think this would be a good business decision for Southwest and JetBlue.

What about all of B6's Airbii and Embraers? WN and B6's fleets are opposites, and they wouldn't be able to dump all of those aircraft without significantly taking a hit to their combined ops like they were able to with AirTran's 717s. They could maybe dump the E190s, but they'd be stuck with the Airbus fleet. I don't see this happening. And honestly, I don't see any more mergers in the near future.
 
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:31 am

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Thread starter):

His resignation, along with the rest of the negotiating team, was discussed in the thread on WN pilots rejecting the contract proposal:

WN Pilots Reject Contract (by mmo Nov 5 2015 in Civil Aviation)
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
airliner371
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:37 am

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 4):
What about all of B6's Airbii and Embraers?

AirTran's 717 fleet was not as efficient as JetBlue's E190s or A320s. I think Southwest could easily take in these aircraft and operate them.

And if they choose to, they could cancel the future orders or find a new home for those orders and just eventually phase the Airbus aircraft out at the end of their lifetime. But I don't think Southwest would need to do what they did with the 717s with these aircraft.

Southwest has a huge fleet, they are large enough where they can take on a new aircraft type, especially one much more fuel efficient than a 717. I don't see fleet being an issue.
 
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:41 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 6):

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 4):
What about all of B6's Airbii and Embraers?

AirTran's 717 fleet was not as efficient as JetBlue's E190s or A320s. I think Southwest could easily take in these aircraft and operate them.

And if they choose to, they could cancel the future orders or find a new home for those orders and just eventually phase the Airbus aircraft out at the end of their lifetime. But I don't think Southwest would need to do what they did with the 717s with these aircraft.

Southwest has a huge fleet, they are large enough where they can take on a new aircraft type, especially one much more fuel efficient than a 717. I don't see fleet being an issue.

It would be kind of funny if they worked out a similar deal with DL with the E190s as they did with the 717s. That ways they'd only have one additional fleet type to worry about. Delta has already shown interest in the E190.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:41 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 6):
I don't see fleet being an issue.

I would tend to agree. The Airbus neo's will be knock-out aircraft and complement the MAX fine in a large fleet. They probably could use an E190 as well to get them into the second- and third-tier markets that they otherwise might struggle with using a 737.

One thing we know is that, while still "Southwest", they are not Herb Kelleher's Southwest.

-Dave
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:43 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 8):
The Airbus neo's will be knock-out aircraft and complement the MAX fine in a large fleet. They probably could use an E190 as well to get them into the second- and third-tier markets that they otherwise might struggle with using a 737.

Agreed, I think the Airbus and E190s could really compliment the fleet and would give Southwest a lot of flexibility with what aircraft is best on specific routes.
 
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:44 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 6):
AirTran's 717 fleet was not as efficient as JetBlue's E190s or A320s. I think Southwest could easily take in these aircraft and operate them.

And if they choose to, they could cancel the future orders or find a new home for those orders and just eventually phase the Airbus aircraft out at the end of their lifetime. But I don't think Southwest would need to do what they did with the 717s with these aircraft.

Southwest has a huge fleet, they are large enough where they can take on a new aircraft type, especially one much more fuel efficient than a 717. I don't see fleet being an issue.

Yes, Southwest was lucky to unload those fuel inefficient 717s on that upstart Delta Air Lines.
 
wwtraveler99
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:49 am

Quoting Moose135 (Reply 5):
His resignation, along with the rest of the negotiating team, was discussed in the thread on WN pilots rejecting the contract proposal:

Yes I agree the Presidents resignation was on that thread but considering that there is talk/rumor of a merger assiciated with it I feel it warrant its own discussion.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 6):
Southwest has a huge fleet, they are large enough where they can take on a new aircraft type, especially one much more fuel efficient than a 717. I don't see fleet being an issue.

I think you are correct. I think with B6 fleet size of airbuses they will operate them. I also think you might see WN do one of two things. Order more or cancel the remaining orders and switch to boeing. This one for me is a close one to call. I think that airbus is at least an aircraft they can operate over the longer term. The 321s would be good for the tcons. I think if anything you will see WN be gone with all the -500 and -300 even sooner. But it all depends on how fast an acquisition might happen. The -500 will supposedly be gone next year and the -300 by 2019ish.
 
a380787
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:55 am

B6 is delivering stacks of brand new A321s as we speak. If they follow your "run Airbus fleet till retirement" idea that'll be a good 20 years at the minimum where WN has to manage them.

And I hardly think the 717s were disposed because of fuel inefficiency. After all, WN is the largest operator of the 73G, which is quite a bit higher CASM than the 738.

One thing people forgot is the completely different philosophies of WN vs B6 - WN doesn't even interline with anyone, but B6 has partnerships with basically anyone who knocks on their door. B6 has a successful premium transcon cabin while WN doesn't market any extra legrow seats (or have seat assignments for that matter). B6 gives free Live tv while WN flights are "dark". These aren't as trivial as one imagines.
 
airliner371
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:59 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 12):
WN doesn't even interline with anyone, but B6 has partnerships with basically anyone who knocks on their door.

Hense the...

Quote:
Meanwhile, sources say Southwest CEO Gary Kelly urgently wants to get deals done with the pilots, flight attendants and ramp agents — all of whom have been negotiating for years with management — so he can proceed with another merger now that the AirTran integration is complete.
Quoting a380787 (Reply 12):
B6 has a successful premium transcon cabin while WN doesn't market any extra legrow seats (or have seat assignments for that matter)

That's part of my whole..

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 2):
the AirTran acquisition was Southwest taking the AirTran routes it wanted and dumping the rest of AirTran, I see JetBlue as more of a combining of two airlines with Southwest actually adopting things from JetBlue.

-------------------------

Quoting a380787 (Reply 12):
B6 gives free Live tv while WN flights are "dark".

Southwest provides 19 channels of free television on WiFi enabled flights. The days of people saying "Southwest doesn't offer inflight entertainment" ended a few years ago.
 
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:05 am

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Reply 11):
Yes I agree the Presidents resignation was on that thread but considering that there is talk/rumor of a merger assiciated with it I feel it warrant its own discussion.

The resignation has nothing to do with a rumored merger so that topic is already being discussed in a more appropriate thread.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
a380787
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:09 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 13):

AirTran was a small brand, so dumping that was no biggie. Try dumping the good will that JetBlue has built up in the northeast, especially on how they market themselves as New York's hometown airline, and you would see quite a bit of backlash.

Or another point - JetBlue is now the largest carrier from dominican republic. Try asking them to fly a brand they never heard of.

And I don't see how the labor contracts have anything to do with my point about B6 partnership with the likes of EK EI SQ HA etc. how does one preclude the other ?
 
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:12 am

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 4):

If WN actually wanted to be huge in the east coast and Caribbean as others have suggested, they would have to keep the B6 fleet. There's no way WN could cover their own network AND B6s at the same time with their fleet alone. It would be strange to see a WN Airbus! It would also give them two great cities to start TATL operations. Interesting times ahead for WN I foresee.
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:13 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 12):
B6 has a successful premium transcon cabin while WN doesn't market any extra legrow seats (or have seat assignments for that matter). B6 gives free Live tv while WN flights are "dark". These aren't as trivial as one imagines.

The vast majority (almost all) of WN flights have WIFI and 19 Channels of Live TV and MUSIC and Movies. The Wifi is priced great too. No Bag Fees, No Change Fees, etc. Southwest carriers A LOT of business travelers.

JetBlue does too. MINT would be a great value add.

If we are playing the hypothetical game, WN / B6 would be a (are) domestic powerhouse, add the Central America/ Caribbean, there would be a lot of low hanging fruit for expansion.

Add the MAX8 and the A321/NEO, and they have the 2 best narrowbodies joining their fleet.

Think of all the HUBS/Focus cities they could launch 787A330/A330NEO/A350 LongHaul flights from.

From an INTL feed, partner with any airline willing to partner (EK comes to mind - really stick it to the US 3).

If we have already accepted / allowed government granted these partial, gov't granted monopolies, might as well great an airline that will crank up the competition on the US3. Make it the US4.
 
a380787
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:23 am

Quoting airzona11 (Reply 17):

No change fee is great, but one thing that really irks me is no standby travel unless you upfare to anytime fare (aka full fare Y), which really restricts the flexibility of the business traveler

On the contrary, JetBlue allows same day confirmed for a fee and same day standby for free.

I'd say that's a key philosophical difference. Not saying which method is better, so if they merge and must pick one side, those used to be the other side won't be too happy about the change. I, for one, will immediately abandon my preferred carrier if they remove the SDC feature.

[Edited 2015-11-11 21:23:52]
 
airliner371
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:39 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 16):
If WN actually wanted to be huge in the east coast and Caribbean as others have suggested, they would have to keep the B6 fleet. There's no way WN could cover their own network AND B6s at the same time with their fleet alone. It would be strange to see a WN Airbus! It would also give them two great cities to start TATL operations. Interesting times ahead for WN I foresee.

I don't think anyone is suggesting Southwest could operate the JetBlue flights with WN's current fleet alone.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 18):

If Southwest were to end this (which I'm not saying will happen), it's not like it would hurt Southwest. Southwest ended AirTran's business class and assigned seats, people who truly cared about that left and an equal amount if not more people who like the Southwest way replaced those people. Southwest is a big boy, they know what they are doing.
 
a380787
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:52 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 19):

AirTran's brand and importance is nothing remotely close to what JetBlue is. Just because they did X y z to AirTran doesn't mean it's replicable. And judging from AirTran's performance, I'd be hard pressed to understand who really flies their big seats up front. JetBlue MINT is a far more successful product than AirTran ever was.

And being a "big boy" doesn't mean much. UA was a big boy when they merged with CO and was a mess in the 2012-13 time frame. WN was a big boy when they bought AirTran and still end up chopping a big chunk of ATL and handed all the passengers back to delta on a silver platter.

JetBlue is far closer in product offering to AS than to WN. The only single thing that WN+B6 makes sense is the route network. The rest will be a clash where WN forces their bare bones no frills onto B6's hybrid image.
 
a380787
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:01 am

One more key philosophical difference - B6 fares are broadly available on OTAs, something that WN uniquely excludes themselves from. That actually is material for markets where the customers are primarily foreign POS and not used to visiting southwest.com. That VFR market is what drove B6's dominance in places like DR.

DL is laughing all the way to the bank at ATL. Despite having a well known LCC hubbing there, DL is still able to command hub captive pricing. That says to me that the AirTran merger wasn't really done well.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:48 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 12):
And I hardly think the 717s were disposed because of fuel inefficiency. After all, WN is the largest operator of the 73G, which is quite a bit higher CASM than the 738.

The two aren't really related. I don't believe WN has taken delivery of any new 73G's since they began taking new build 738's. The 717's left because WN wanted a one-type fleet.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 12):
One thing people forgot

Like who?

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 13):
Southwest provides 19 channels of free television on WiFi enabled flights.

Yep. Enjoyed a few years ago on my flights on Southwest to/from California.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 15):
Or another point - JetBlue is now the largest carrier from dominican republic. Try asking them to fly a brand they never heard of.

You mean, like jetBlue 10 years ago?

Quoting airzona11 (Reply 17):
Add the MAX8 and the A321/NEO, and they have the 2 best narrowbodies joining their fleet.

Absolutely. That'd be an awesome mix.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 20):
The only single thing that WN+B6 makes sense is the route network.

It gets WN into NYC in a BIG way, along with a few other markets, but it also does the exact same thing that the FL merger did, which is eliminate a competitor. People that like jetBlue REALLY like jetBlue. WN is going to struggle to dominate them as they continue to grow into each other's markets. jetBlue being out of the picture would be a large boost for WN, IMHO.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 20):
The rest will be a clash where WN forces their bare bones no frills onto B6's hybrid image.

You don't know that. WN took over and absorbed FL....sort of. They really let AirTran wither as WN replaced them in their markets. With B6, that simply wouldn't be possible. Not only would WN piss away the jetBlue lovers, but they'd lack the aircraft to even remotely replace B6 in a reasonable timeframe.

I think - and yes, I could EASILY be wrong - that WN+B6, were it to happen, would bring a fundamental change to a lot of what WN does. It doesn't mean they'd become "JetBlue" but with the name "Southwest" on the planes, but they'd absolutely need to both culturally merge two large airlines as well as retain some of what makes B6 a popular carrier. That could be new seating options, new snack options, bag fees, etc.

It's all speculation though.

-Dave
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MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
airliner371
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:02 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 22):
With B6, that simply wouldn't be possible. Not only would WN piss away the jetBlue lovers, but they'd lack the aircraft to even remotely replace B6 in a reasonable timeframe.

I think - and yes, I could EASILY be wrong - that WN+B6, were it to happen, would bring a fundamental change to a lot of what WN does. It doesn't mean they'd become "JetBlue" but with the name "Southwest" on the planes, but they'd absolutely need to both culturally merge two large airlines as well as retain some of what makes B6 a popular carrier. That could be new seating options, new snack options

I completely agree. This would have to be more of a merger and not an integration into Southwest like AirTran was.
 
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:08 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 18):

No change fee is great, but one thing that really irks me is no standby travel unless you upfare to anytime fare (aka full fare Y), which really restricts the flexibility of the business traveler

On the contrary, JetBlue allows same day confirmed for a fee and same day standby for free.

I'd say that's a key philosophical difference. Not saying which method is better, so if they merge and must pick one side, those used to be the other side won't be too happy about the change. I, for one, will immediately abandon my preferred carrier if they remove the SDC feature.

That is the one thing about WN that I really disagree with...but I understand why they do it. IF (and I doubt it) this proposed merger does happen, I have questions regarding a LOT of operational changes that need to be made at both airlines:
1. What happens to Mint?
2. Fleet commonality...my guess is the Airbii go, and not as slow as some of you think. But they will figure out a way to pawn them off to another carrier while replacing them 1:1...maybe a trade with an airline that is dumping 738's in favor of Airbii (I know PG is one).
3. Res systems
4. Divestiture of NYC and WAS slots.
5. Codeshares
6. AVOD vs wireless IFE
7. How many free checked bags...my guess is WN reduces it to 1.
8. Open vs. assigned seats
 
wjcandee
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:29 am

B6 isn't going to happn.

The cycle is up for airlines at the moment. When they were down, the government let them take some of the competition out of the market.

Airtran/Southwest was hugely anticompetitive, a merger done solely to eliminate the price leader in that space. The government went along, for reasons I never could comprehend. Shameless. Disgraceful.

They aren't going to do it again anytime soon.

This would be a merger only Wall Street could love. The philosophies are different, the equipment is different, and on and on. A real Red Team/Green Team possibility exists as well. B6 pilots absolutely would be hosed in such a combination, and enjoy a certain lifetyle/workstyle that they would lose.

Executives who are bored with the day to day drivel of running an airline get all tingly in their loins when thinking about doing stuff like this. Nobody else does, because it's nuts.

Doesn't mean they won't try. But regardless of what flavor of administration we have a year from now, the DOJ most likely won't permit it. I think they have realized that claims of reduced fares and "network benefits" were total -- absurd -- crap that those involved had to be laughing their asses off that anyone bought. The result was exactly what we regular folks knew it was going to be: Layoffs, retrenchment, closing of hubs, disposal of assets, etc., etc. A combination of a little bubble of pilots reaching retirement age helped mitigate the nuimber of furloughs, as did the government's helpful raising of minimum hour requirements, but otherwise the results were predictable.
 
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:52 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 15):
Or another point - JetBlue is now the largest carrier from dominican republic. Try asking them to fly a brand they never heard of.
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 22):
You mean, like jetBlue 10 years ago?

Going to agree with PlanesNTrains here. There was a time when B6 was unknown in DR, WN was unknown in both PR and DR (and WN flies to PUJ!), heck there was a time when AA was unknown in both DR & PR when EA was the king in the region.
 
wwtraveler99
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:36 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 22):
t doesn't mean they'd become "JetBlue" but with the name "Southwest" on the planes, but they'd absolutely need to both culturally merge two large airlines as well as retain some of what makes B6 a popular carrier. That could be new seating options, new snack options, bag fees, etc.

I don't think bag fees makes B6 a popular carrier. I think WN would still allow 1 free bag if this were to happen. I see MINT as one of the largest decisions for WN to make. Would they just operate a sub=fleet to keep some of the Frequent Flyers happy in and around the BOS/NYC areas?

All I can say is IF this weree to happen it would be way different than how things went with FL.


WW
 
a380787
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:52 pm

Quoting wwtraveler99 (Reply 27):

I'd argue the biggest decision is res system - open door like B6 or closed like WN.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 22):

The name of "southwest" actually isn't considered a strong in the northeast at all. WN is ranked #5 in nyc IIRC.

WN will also inherit a large hub at one of the most delay prone airports, and will have to cope with the inherent delays that come with that. The last time they tried something similar (PHL) they've torn down their build up very quickly.

Quoting phatfarmlines (Reply 26):

Do you know how long it took for each of your cases to build up the name ID ? Some are proposing to overthrow a strong name overnight.

Many from the west coast thinks "southwest" is a nationwide household name like Pepsi or Costco, but if you go to NYC, their name is as strong as things like sun country.
 
Flaps
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:10 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 1):
Please_make_the_mergers_stop.

Signed - Everyone.

Allow me to second this please:

NO_MORE_MERGERS

We have had too many already.
 
usairways85
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:30 pm

If the DOJ is going after UA/DL over ~15-20 slots at EWR I am pretty sure they would block any merger attempt in the forseeable future. 10 years ago, airlines were losing money and many had been in/out of bankruptcy. Now that airlines are making hundreds of millions of dollars the notion that they must merge to survive doesn't hold as much water.
 
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:13 pm

While everyone is talking JETBLUE, they could be talking with ALASKA makes more sense, fleet wise. Think outside the box.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
allegiantflyer
Posts: 360
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:59 pm

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:30 pm

Didn't Southwest literally JUST FINISH an acquisition 11 months ago? Damn the boys move on fast these days.

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 31):

I agree that AS would make more sense with their fleet and has a strong presence in international cities WN wants to get in, but I would also think AS would have a significantly larger price tag compared to B6.
Also according to my mother, a merger with AS may not be that appreciative from the employee perspective considering the seniority some AS employees have under their belt.
 
Dallas
Posts: 266
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:37 pm

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:54 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 25):
B6 isn't going to happn.

The cycle is up for airlines at the moment. When they were down, the government let them take some of the competition out of the market.

Airtran/Southwest was hugely anticompetitive, a merger done solely to eliminate the price leader in that space. The government went along, for reasons I never could comprehend. Shameless. Disgraceful.

They aren't going to do it again anytime soon.
Quoting usairways85 (Reply 30):
If the DOJ is going after UA/DL over ~15-20 slots at EWR I am pretty sure they would block any merger attempt in the forseeable future. 10 years ago, airlines were losing money and many had been in/out of bankruptcy. Now that airlines are making hundreds of millions of dollars the notion that they must merge to survive doesn't hold as much water.

Both of these points are spot on. A merger isn't being discussed and even if it was the DOJ won't approve it. The DOJ is investigating WN/DAL over two gates, so there is no way I would see another merger in the current landscape being approved.

This author is good at getting site traffic through his click-bait opinions with no factual base. His previous article have been scrutinized on this site and his "sources" have been questioned as to who they actually are. This article is just an extension of his article during the FA TA vote, and I'm betting these "sources" are upset FAs and maybe pilots that are just speculating, and in a negative, doomsday scenario because their TAs were voted down and they think WN management is up to no good.

There is no merger happening, being discussed, or would be allowed, ESPECIALLY if it involves DL, UA, AA, or WN.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8404
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:03 pm

Keep JetBlue, MY JetBlue !   
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
INFINITI329
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:04 pm

So many good points to reply to I can't quote them all.

- The Airbuses would stay, once WN sees the capabilities of the A321 (coupled w/ mint) I'm pretty sure that would do the convincing. I would dump the E190s for some C-Series airplanes

- A tie up similar to the set up of what Air France- KLM has could be explored but I don't think it would work because I think one brand is a lot stronger than two unified brands in N. America.

-Alot of $$$ would have to spent on making the new carrier's name a household name in B6 dominated markets

-B6's in flight product is 50x better than what WN offers. In a combined carrier B6's product should be adopted

-Largest combined city would be MCO would result in the combined carrier having a staggering almost 44% market share

-JFK, BOS strongholds can position the new carrier for Europe destinations

- I don't think 2 free bags makes it to the new carrier. I think the policy would go to 1 bag flies free and the 2nd would be charged for, but cheaper than the others guys 1st bag fee.

-Keep mx/crew bases as they are, even though I see WN wanting open up a small 737 base in NYC

-If you didn't know how piss DL off, this will piss them off ALOTTT
 
Georgetown
Posts: 420
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:50 pm

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:10 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 28):
Many from the west coast thinks "southwest" is a nationwide household name like Pepsi or Costco, but if you go to NYC, their name is as strong as things like sun country.

While I'll agree that WN has stronger "brand" recognition on the west coast, I find the comparison to Sun Country in NYC to be way extreme. I spend 50% of my time in SFO and the other 50% split between NYC and WAS. Sure, WN stands somewhere behind the US3 and JetBlue in NYC but the name recognition is most certainly there, and miles beyond Sun Country. Moving down the corridor in the DC area the name recognition is massive, especially given their presence at BWI.
Let's go Hoyas!
 
afcjets
Posts: 2888
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:21 pm

I hope it is Frontier to get them away from Spirit, actually I wish they would buy Spirit instead and get rid of them.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:48 pm

Quoting Georgetown (Reply 36):

While I'll agree that WN has stronger "brand" recognition on the west coast, I find the comparison to Sun Country in NYC to be way extreme. I spend 50% of my time in SFO and the other 50% split between NYC and WAS. Sure, WN stands somewhere behind the US3 and JetBlue in NYC but the name recognition is most certainly there, and miles beyond Sun Country. Moving down the corridor in the DC area the name recognition is massive, especially given their presence at BWI.

From LGA+EWR, WN does *not * fly to any one of BOS WAS FLL SEA PDX SFO/OAK/SJC LAX/BUR/ONT/SNA SAN TPA MSY SLC MSP CLE CMH PIT DTW CLT on a nonstop basis (based on the route map on Southwest.com today)

How do you expect to gain the loyalty (or name ID) of NY passengers when the gaps are this big ?
 
afcjets
Posts: 2888
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:52 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
How do you expect to gain the loyalty (or name ID) of NY passengers when the gaps are this big ?

People who don't drink beer have heard of Budweiser.
 
airliner371
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:53 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 38):
From LGA+EWR, WN does *not * fly to any one of BOS WAS FLL SEA PDX SFO/OAK/SJC LAX/BUR/ONT/SNA SAN TPA MSY SLC MSP CLE CMH PIT DTW CLT on a nonstop basis (based on the route map on Southwest.com today)

How do you expect to gain the loyalty (or name ID) of NY passengers when the gaps are this big ?

You are hugely exaggerating this. First of all, people will have their TrueBlue points moved over to Rapid Rewards so many will know through that. Southwest itself has a huge name, even in the Northeast so they will get a good amount of people to just start flying on Southwest because Southwest is big in the market now. And other people will just go to JetBlue.com and be redirected to Southwest.com. I mean it really isn't a big deal like you are making it seem. Southwest didn't even serve ATL and look at them now, they had to completely build a new customer base from AirTran and now they have a nice sized focus city there.
 
Italianflyer
Posts: 650
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:06 pm

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:57 pm

Maybe I am dense, but I do not see a correlation between his resignation and an impending merger bid. Jackson delivered a TA that was rejected; instead of doubling down he is stepping aside. IMHO that is the right thing to do. How does his departure from SWAPA portend a near term merger play???
 
airliner371
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:04 pm

Quoting Italianflyer (Reply 41):
Maybe I am dense, but I do not see a correlation between his resignation and an impending merger bid. Jackson delivered a TA that was rejected; instead of doubling down he is stepping aside. IMHO that is the right thing to do. How does his departure from SWAPA portend a near term merger play???

You are correct, the connection isn't between the resignation and the potential merger, it's between Gary Kelly getting his labor contracts done and the merger.
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4582
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:14 pm

Quoting Italianflyer (Reply 41):

Maybe I am dense, but I do not see a correlation between his resignation and an impending merger bid.

Because there isn't one.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 2448
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:23 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 37):
I wish they would buy Spirit instead and get rid of them.

yes, yes, YES!!!!!

You sir, win this thread.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 40):

You're underestimating the power of OTA as a shopping tool.

Another point is I specifically said nyc while you "accidentally" expand that to northeast just to make a point. Actually even if you include the entire northeast, from WAS up to Maine, I still believe WN is #5 at best
 
airliner371
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:39 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 45):
You're underestimating the power of OTA as a shopping tool.

And Southwest can definitely decide to use JetBlue's stance on OTA.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 45):
Another point is I specifically said nyc while you "accidentally" expand that to northeast just to make a point. Actually even if you include the entire northeast, from WAS up to Maine, I still believe WN is #5 at best

My point still stands...

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 40):
You are hugely exaggerating this. First of all, people will have their TrueBlue points moved over to Rapid Rewards so many will know through that. Southwest itself has a huge name, even in the Northeast so they will get a good amount of people to just start flying on Southwest because Southwest is big in the market now. And other people will just go to JetBlue.com and be redirected to Southwest.com. I mean it really isn't a big deal like you are making it seem. Southwest didn't even serve ATL and look at them now, they had to completely build a new customer base from AirTran and now they have a nice sized focus city there.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:45 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 46):

Southwest deciding to open up to OTA will be a huge change in corporate philosophy, not as simply as flipping an on off switch Like you portray it to resemble.

And I don't understand your point about TB vs RR - that was never in dispute, since both are revenue based already. The only diff being B6/TB can earn and burn on partner airlines, something that WN doesn't have.

Maybe u forgot how much market share was lost at ATL when WN forced FL's customers into their ways ? Now ATL is only something like 6th or 7th largest station when in fact WN could've made ATL on par with MDW and LAS.

[Edited 2015-11-12 09:46:58]
 
Georgetown
Posts: 420
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:50 pm

RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:12 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 47):

Yes WN does not have the physical presence in NYC that others do - I'm in complete agreement that they are #5 at best. But to compare them to Sun Country? C'mon. Southwest might not be as iconic as Coca-Cola or Budweiser, but it's a behemoth, and more than that one of the most respected. Unless you're suggesting the population of NYC is as strangely provincial as I sometimes jokingly suspect, I might give them and WN a bit more credit on the brand recognition front.

And now a fun (and somewhat click-baity) link about brand recognition from a fairly well known source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquely...merican-men-and-women-desire-most/
Let's go Hoyas!
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
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RE: WN's Swapa President Resigns And WN Merger?

Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:27 pm

Quoting Georgetown (Reply 48):

Yes WN does not have the physical presence in NYC that others do - I'm in complete agreement that they are #5 at best. But to compare them to Sun Country? C'mon. Southwest might not be as iconic as Coca-Cola or Budweiser, but it's a behemoth, and more than that one of the most respected. Unless you're suggesting the population of NYC is as strangely provincial as I sometimes jokingly suspect, I might give them and WN a bit more credit on the brand recognition front.

Official pax stats from 2014 showed WN having 3.1% market share in NYC+SWF+ACY (that's the official PANYNJ report that only includes their own airports but exclude things like HPN or ISP)

And these stats are just total passengers, not NYC originating ones, which I suspect may be even less than this figure. I don't see how much respect one can realistically command with a 3% market share (to put it in perspective, that's basically how much Microsoft Windows Phone has against iPhone and Android)

If you want to use more recent data of trailing 12mos ending Aug-2015, WN alone has 3.2% pax share, and if merged with B6, would give it 16.4% share, still #3, but sufficient to leap-frog the new AA which currently stands at 14.7% ..... and all of this is based on the major assumption that WN doesn't pull another FL/ATL.

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