Rumor: SA, LY, KL Back To Miami

MAH4546 · Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:05 pm

When the thread first came a few weeks ago I largely dismissed it, but apparently this is looking more likely, and in addition to a JNB-CPT-MIA-JNB routing, there would be a JNB-ABV-MIA-ABV-JNB routing, providing Abidjan with it's only U.S. link, as being reported by The Next Miami, which is an anonymously ran but very reliable website that has frequently broken news on new Miami airline service before being announced by the airline itself. Curious what this "exemption" would be, though, I think it casts a shadow on the story.

http://www.thenextmiami.com/index.ph...ghts-to-africa-ireland-and-israel/

2016 is already bringing EuroWings to Cologne and SAS to Oslo and Copenhagen, and these could potentially make it even more exciting.

Also being reported are renewed talks between MIA and El Al in the past few weeks (likely given AA's decision to drop Tel Aviv), a possible return of KLM and that Aer Lingus service to Miami may happen in summer 2017.

Aer Lingus is certainly a given with it's pending entry into OneWorld and it's JBA, and while KLM has tried twice in the past decade, it is the only large European long-haul carrier that does not fly to Miami.

Frostbite · Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:52 pm

Interesting. It has been a long time since Abidjan had a scheduled connection to the USA - I think the long-defunct Air Afrique was the last carrier to serve the market (ABJ-JFK). SAA has traditionally used DKR or SAL as a tech stop point for JNB-USA operations. DKR in particular, is almost equidistant between JNB and MIA. I wonder why they would shift to Cote d'Ivoire...how much traffic is there, really? Maybe just easier logistics for the tech stop...?

Incidentally, ABV = Abuja, Nigeria.

adamh8297 · Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:54 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Curious what this "exemption" would be, though, I think it casts a shadow on the story.

*A exemption??? Is it something in a membership contract?

jfk777 · Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:55 pm

With all the new European airlines to Miami its a surprise KLM could not make Miami work. Hey they make Houston work, they have flown there for decades. SFO, ORD and LAX are also KLM destinations in he USA and so many more I can't count them.

Miami · Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:58 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
but apparently this is looking more likely

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
2016 is already bringing EuroWings to Cologne and SAS to Oslo and Copenhagen, and these could potentially make it even more exciting.

Fantastic.

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Also being reported are renewed talks between MIA and El Al in the past few weeks (likely given AA's decision to drop Tel Aviv)

A presentation prepared by MIA for El Al:

www.scribd.com/fullscreen/289474051?...dations=false&view_mode=scroll

(Note: It's a bit old but still worth to study/read)

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
a possible return of KLM and that Aer Lingus service to Miami may happen in summer 2017

KLM did have a meeting with airport officials to discuss possible service. And MIA officials did travel to Ireland and continue to have ongoing discussions.

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Aer Lingus is certainly a given with it's pending entry into OneWorld and it's JBA

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
KLM has tried twice in the past decade, it is the only large European long-haul carrier that does not fly to Miami.

Strange but true. Hopefully a third time is a charm.

slcdeltarumd11 · Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:04 pm

If you are in one world mia offers alot of great connections for aer lingus, that would make sense.

FSDan · Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:19 pm

Cool stuff. I hope these all end up becoming reality and being sustainable long term.

I don't see why SA would need to get an exemption from Star Alliance in order to start a new route... Since when do Alliances have any say in which routes their member airlines fly? Or perhaps there would be an exemption required in order for SA to codeshare with AA on the MIA side. That would make more sense.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
With all the new European airlines to Miami its a surprise KLM could not make Miami work.

Maybe that's exactly the reason that KL couldn't make MIA work... Despite being a large tourism market and having a good business community, there is not unlimited demand for Europe to MIA (at least not at profitable fares). With so many new airlines entering the market over the last few years, that's good to depress yields some. I don't imagine things would be any easier for KL this time around - last time SK wasn't in the market and Scandinavia is where a lot of KL's connecting traffic comes from.

Quoting Miami (Reply 4):
A presentation prepared by MIA for El Al:

It's an interesting presentation, but the map of the AA connections LY could have at MIA is quite misleading - it makes it look like TLV is way south of MIA, which makes it look a lot more appealing for connections to the rest of the U.S. In reality, JFK would be a more convenient connecting point for most of th e country.

usairways85 · Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:32 pm

Doesn't LY have fleet constraints?

Rocker · Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:38 pm

Would be awesome to see these airlines in MIA, and equally awesome to have direct links from MIA to some of these great places!

FSDan · Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:47 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 7):
Doesn't LY have fleet constraints?

They will start receiving 787s in the next few years, and at that point TLV-MIA seems like a near guarantee, I'd say (along with probably TLV-ORD).

Miami · Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:13 am

Quoting FSDan (Reply 6):
SA to codeshare with AA on the MIA side.

Probably what they want.

Quoting FSDan (Reply 9):
They will start receiving 787s in the next few years

MIA and ORD are a given. Many predict it.

Miami · Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:36 am

Quote:
SAA Miami flight needs approval from Star, apparently. Suggests SAA will code on AA from Miami and/or AA will code on MIA-JNB.

www.twitter.com/winglets747/status/664993490032439297

LAX772LR · Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:58 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
a possible return of KLM

This would be what, KL's third attempt in little over a decade?

What's changed since the last two tries?
Fuel price is the only obvious element, but who knows how sustained that'll be.

mugler · Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:03 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 12):

Yes 3rd time. Hopefully this time it works.

-

Eurowings will be 3 weekly operating on tuesdays fridays and sundays. Flight 182/183 arriving at 16:00 and leaving at 17:45. Starts on 5/1/16.

Miami · Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:06 am

Quoting mugler (Reply 13):
Eurowings will be 3 weekly operating on tuesdays fridays and sundays. Flight 182/183 arriving at 16:00 and leaving at 17:45. Starts on 5/1/16.

It appears to be seasonal as well. But that could change.

Quoting mugler (Reply 13):
Yes 3rd time. Hopefully this time it works.

Hopefully is the right word. Let's hope. But of course, let's wait for an announcement.

usairways85 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:08 am

Quoting FSDan (Reply 9):
They will start receiving 787s in the next few years, and at that point TLV-MIA seems like a near guarantee, I'd say (along with probably TLV-ORD).

True, thought aren't most of the incoming 787's simply replacements for the 744 and 763, leaving only a net increase of ~3 frames. Though that would allow for MIA and ORD.

76er · Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:22 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 12):

This would be what, KL's third attempt in little over a decade?

What's changed since the last two tries?

That's easy, the disappearance of in-house competitor Martinair. After terminating pax ops in 2009 MP Cargo continued flights to MIA. By summer next year however, MP will be left with only 4 747 freighters and will be forced to reduce ops at MIA even further.

I say KL 747-combi.

Viscount724 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:27 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
When the thread first came a few weeks ago I largely dismissed it, but apparently this is looking more likely, and in addition to a JNB-CPT-MIA-JNB routing, there would be a JNB-ABV-MIA-ABV-JNB routing, providing Abidjan with it's only U.S. link, as being reported by The Next Miami,

Assume you mean ABJ, not ABV which is Abuja, the capital of Nigeria?

Miami · Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:28 am

Quoting 76er (Reply 16):
I say KL 747-combi.

Hmm. Thanks for pointing out about Martinair. With that, I think a 747-combi will be a win-win for MIA/AMS and KLM.

jasoncrh · Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:18 am

Of course they make Houston work. Houston has a LARGE volume of PAID FULL FARE J class travel due to the oil industry. Shell is based in Amsterdam and its US HdQ is in Houston, so there is tons of paid traffic in J. That route has been a gold mine for KLM. In addition, the AMS hub connects to many other oil destinations. Furthermore, Houston is the fourth largest US city, so that generates a fair amount of additional business and leisure demand for travel. There should be no reason why they should not make Houston work.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
With all the new European airlines to Miami its a surprise KLM could not make Miami work. Hey they make Houston work, they have flown there for decades. SFO, ORD and LAX are also KLM destinations in he USA and so many more I can't count them.

AirGAbon · Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:28 am

ABJ (Abidjan, Ivory Coast), is now certified by the FAA, one of the most modern facilities and terminal in West Africa.

Ivory Coast is the key leading country in French speaking African countries, with a growth rate of 8 to 10%. That's why AF is flying the A380 between CDG and ABJ.

There is much more potential high yield traffic between Ivory Coast and the US (oil, Cargill, industry etc.) than between Senegal and the US (low-yield VFR with the Senegalese community in NYC).

Thus, this is a good potential idea of SA to switch some of the flights to the US via ABJ and not only DKR.

s.p.a.s. · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:47 am

Quoting mugler (Reply 13):
Starts on 5/1/16.

Is that 5/JAN or 1/MAY?

Sorry for the silly question...

Miami · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:57 am

Quoting s.p.a.s. (Reply 21):
1/MAY?

May 1st, 2016.

s.p.a.s. · Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:54 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 22):
May 1st, 2016.

Thanks!

MIA is getting interesting new operators recently, now perhaps we can hope for at least one Asian airline too, other than the usual cargo players.

Miami · Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:01 pm

Quoting s.p.a.s. (Reply 23):

Indeed. MIA continues to try everyday to persuade an Asian carrier to start service. So far, no luck. But that is expect to change within a year or so.

For now, MIA is focusing on the airlines mentioned in this thread. SAA, Aer Lingus, EL AL, and KLM. All which could be in MIA within 2-3 years; I would say.

Some exciting news is still expected to come as soon as possible.

ETinCaribe · Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:28 pm

Great stuff, hoping all will be...

Quoting FSDan (Reply 6):
reality and being sustainable long term.

Interesting MIA-ABJ I would not have guessed.

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 20):
Ivory Coast is the key leading country in French speaking African countries, with a growth rate of 8 to 10%. That's why AF is flying the A380 between CDG and ABJ.

And with the recent elections behind them, the country is really on a good growth trajectory. I already some companies that had moved to Senegal during the civil war in Cote d'Ivoire coming back.

Good job by MIA in attracting all these carriers!

dfwjim1 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:07 pm

Personally I feel that Aer Lingus and El Al are the best bets to start service to/from MIA.

Miami · Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:22 pm

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 26):
Personally I feel that Aer Lingus and El Al are the best bets to start service to/from MIA.

They will come with time.

divemaster08 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:58 pm

Wasnt their talk on this forum of news coming in November of a new ULH route to MIA? Did I miss that or has it not yet been announced.

Wish SA or AA would hurry up and launch an African route. Heading to CPT next March and its not a simple routing from GCM to Africa!

Miami · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:13 pm

Quoting divemaster08 (Reply 28):
Wasnt their talk on this forum of news coming in November of a new ULH route to MIA? Did I miss that or has it not yet been announced.

Not yet announced.

jfk777 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:32 pm

MIA has a gate problem, was there last week and the J concourse was so full with a departing LH A380 and an AF A380 arriving plus the Turkish 777 and the Austrain 777 plus a TAM 777. Not to forget Alitalia, SWISS and all the LAN planes. But concourses F & G are empty and so sad looking. All concourse E is full especially now with the BA A380.

Miami-Dade needs to spend some money to bring the rest of the airport up to new standards. Full concourse J is creating taxi way backups which could be alleviated by spreading the flights around. BA should move to concourse A and why it has not by could only be known by AA and BA. What happened to all the stories about an A380 gate there ?

MAH4546 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:50 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 30):
BA should move to concourse A and why it has not by could only be known by AA and BA. What happened to all the stories about an A380 gate there ?

BA was going to re-open their old lounge, but then AmEx took that lounge space, so BA needs to be next to their shared lounge with IB/AB. QR also moved to E to share that lounge.

mugler · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:52 pm

Quoting divemaster08 (Reply 28):

Wasnt their talk on this forum of news coming in November of a new ULH route to MIA? Did I miss that or has it not yet been announced.

It was never confirmed, the announcement should be made by the end of the month and it will not be a ULH route.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 30):

Turkish, Alitalia, Aerolineas Argentinas, and sometimes LAN use the H concourse. Lufthansa, LAN, TAM, Swiss, Austrian, Air France, and Avianca park their widebodies in J which is always full during the afternoon.

I guess there is still space at F for widebodies. Qatar moved from D14 to E10 and Iberia moved to E11 again from F.

As for the A380 gate on concourse D, it won't happen. Qatar had to move back to E because AA wanted the gate back, hence the new gate E6A for BA and its A380.

jfk777 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:08 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
BA was going to re-open their old lounge, but then AmEx took that lounge space, so BA needs to be next to their shared lounge with IB/AB. QR also moved to E to share that lounge.

Why would MIA do this, lease the former BA lounge to American Express ? Why would BA not want it back ? Why would AA let Miami-Dade put an AMEX lounge in AA area of the airport? AA has a credit card deal with Citibank. The obvious place for an AMEX lounge in Miami would be in Delta's part. Putting it in AA's concourse D just smells bad politically.

Miami · Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:08 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 30):
MIA has a gate problem

I agree.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 30):
Turkish 777

They park at H.

Quoting mugler (Reply 32):
It was never confirmed, the announcement should be made by the end of the month and it will not be a ULH route.

Yep. Not nonstop so not ULH.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 33):
Why would MIA do this, lease the former BA lounge to American Express ? Why would BA not want it back ? Why would AA let Miami-Dade put an AMEX lounge in AA area of the airport? AA has a credit card deal with Citibank. The obvious place for an AMEX lounge in Miami would be in Delta's part. Putting it in AA's concourse D just smells bad politically.

Let's stay on topic please.

[Edited 2015-11-13 17:29:59]

N867DA · Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:31 am

Has KL ever operated to ATL and MIA at the same time? In the past they've closed one station to open the other.

MAH4546 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:17 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 33):
Why would MIA do this, lease the former BA lounge to American Express ? Why would BA not want it back ? Why would AA let Miami-Dade put an AMEX lounge in AA area of the airport? AA has a credit card deal with Citibank. The obvious place for an AMEX lounge in Miami would be in Delta's part. Putting it in AA's concourse D just smells bad politically.

No, the obvious place to put an AmEx Lounge is where the airport's largest customer base of local passengers is flying from, which is Concourse D. AmEx has had a habit to put lounges near AA gates, as it has in Miami, Las Vegas, Dallas and LaGuardia.

I don't think you understand how leasing out space works if you think MIA owes any favors to airlines in order to block out competitors.

OB1504 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:49 am

Quoting 76er (Reply 16):
competitor Martinair. After terminating pax ops in 2009 MP Cargo continued flights to MIA. By summer next year however, MP will be left with only 4 747 freighters and will be forced to reduce ops at MIA even further.

Martinair wasn't flying AMS-MIA when KLM tried the route again in 2011 and it still failed.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 30):
Miami-Dade needs to spend some money to bring the rest of the airport up to new standards. Full concourse J is creating taxi way backups which could be alleviated by spreading the flights around. BA should move to concourse A and why it has not by could only be known by AA and BA. What happened to all the stories about an A380 gate there ?

For starters, there's no Concourse A anymore.

As has been mentioned by others, there's barely enough space to contain all of AA's own operations in Concourse D, let alone those of another carrier whose A380 would tie up two gates.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 33):
Why would MIA do this, lease the former BA lounge to American Express ? Why would BA not want it back ? Why would AA let Miami-Dade put an AMEX lounge in AA area of the airport? AA has a credit card deal with Citibank. The obvious place for an AMEX lounge in Miami would be in Delta's part. Putting it in AA's concourse D just smells bad politically.

American Express was either willing to pay more or made a move before British Airways did. American Airlines' affiliation with Citi doesn't matter, not least because Citi doesn't operate airport lounges. The Centurion Lounge seems to be quite popular with AA passengers who are AMEX cardmembers and it's relieved overcrowding at the two existing Admirals Clubs.

MAH4546 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:11 am

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 37):
Martinair wasn't flying AMS-MIA when KLM tried the route again in 2011 and it still failed.

He never said that. He said with MP's dwindling cargo operations, there could be a market for KL to fly to MIA with a combi plane.

Miami · Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:31 pm

We should hear something about SAA within 2 weeks.

Miami · Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:18 pm

From this past August:

Quote:
Aviation Director Emilio T. González welcomed a Dutch delegation to MIA today to discuss future partnership opportunities. Pictured left to right are: Amsterdam Schiphol Airport Business Development Manager Andrew Land and Aviation Marketing Director Marcel Lekkerkerk; AirFrance/KLM North America SVP Marnix Fruitema; Dutch Consul General in Miami Nathalie Olijslager-Jaarsma; and the Director.

Miami · Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:23 am

LOT Polish also might announce MIA soon.

clrd4t8koff · Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:52 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 38):

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 37):
Martinair wasn't flying AMS-MIA when KLM tried the route again in 2011 and it still failed.

He never said that. He said with MP's dwindling cargo operations, there could be a market for KL to fly to MIA with a combi plane.

If there was a market for KLM with a combi plane, why wouldnt they have tried it the first or second time they attempted MIA?

LOT767SP-LPA · Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:38 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 41):

Confirm

MAH4546 · Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:03 am

Quoting clrd4t8koff (Reply 42):
If there was a market for KLM with a combi plane, why wouldnt they have tried it the first or second time they attempted MIA?

Did you read his post? It can make up for KLM-owned Martinair's dwindling capacity as the airline has shrunken majorly, and MIA is perhaps its largest outstation.

Quoting LOT767SP-LPA (Reply 43):
Quoting Miami (Reply 41):

Confirm

Are you confirming an announcement is imminent?

[Edited 2015-11-21 23:04:29]

Miami · Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:52 pm

Quoting LOT767SP-LPA (Reply 43):
Confirm

Confirming that it is happening?

A388 · Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:26 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 34):
Quoting mugler (Reply 32):
It was never confirmed, the announcement should be made by the end of the month and it will not be a ULH route.

Yep. Not nonstop so not ULH.

I don't understand this. Miami, you started a thread about a new ULH route being announced in November and had everybody guessing for a long time. Now it's not an ULH route? This new "ULH route" was supposed to be SA as per that thread?

A388

Miami · Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:05 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 46):
I don't understand this. Miami, you started a thread about a new ULH route being announced in November and had everybody guessing for a long time. Now it's not an ULH route? This new "ULH route" was supposed to be SA as per that thread?

If you go back and read, I said "it will be an ultra long-haul route (if nonstop)". It appears the route is not going to be nonstop. It will have a stop. So not ULH.

A388 · Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:45 pm

Okay now I remember. So this new airline is SA.

A388

clrd4t8koff · Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:22 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 48):

Okay now I remember. So this new airline is SA.

A388

Which isn't new as SA has served MIA before.

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