Paris Terror Attacks, French Borders Closed

Web500sjc · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:03 pm

First I am praying for the safe resolution to the situation in Paris.

According to cnn, due to terrorist attacks in the French Capitol of Paris, the French president has declared a state of emergency and closed the French borders.

1)is this the first time a Schengen Country has closed their borders since the implementation?

2) being an aviation forum, what does this mean for European flights to, from and over France?

[Edited 2015-11-13 15:10:46]

rbavfan · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:06 pm

As far as I know yes first time for border closing

Sooner787 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:07 pm

One of my coworkers said she has clients on a plane for CDG as we speak.

I suppose this means the airports are closed to arrivals?

mercure1 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:11 pm

Schengen treaty suspension and implementation of border controls occurs regularly by member states.
Causes are everything from large special events (large sporting events, government summits), to currently states like Germany implementing border controls due migrant crisis.

ubeema · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:12 pm

Just watched President Hollande declaring state of emergency. Closing borders in France is quite extraordinary. Will be pretty bad for travelers. My brother in law who lives there is stuck in the center of Paris and can't go home. All public transportation modes are suspended

LGAviation · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:12 pm

I believe Mr Hollande ordered all borders (incl airports) closed, but anyways given the current local time, I don't believe that possible diversions are their most important issue right now
Vive la France!

[Edited 2015-11-13 15:12:53]

PA110 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:12 pm

What does this mean for long-haul air travel and inbound aircraft already en route?

flyingclrs727 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:14 pm

Quoting Web500sjc (Thread starter):
First I am praying for the safe resolution to the situation in Paris.

There are between 35 and 60 dead already depending on the source.

LGAviation · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:14 pm

Quoting PA110 (Reply 6):

What does this mean for long-haul air travel and inbound aircraft already en route?

Are there any aircraft scheduled to arrive in the hour that are already in the immediate surrounding given the local time of after midnight. Anyways for the long-hauls I suppose, they will be diverted maybe to FRA or MUC as they should be less busy due to the LH strike
Vive la France!

flyingclrs727 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:16 pm

Quoting PA110 (Reply 6):

What does this mean for long-haul air travel and inbound aircraft already en route?

Probably diversions to nearby countries similar to the diversions on 9/11/2001 of US bound flights landing in Canada.

[Edited 2015-11-13 15:17:58]

BlueDanube · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:18 pm

Quoting PA110 (Reply 6):

I would imagine that it means that long-haul flights in the air either turn back to their home countries or (and this is more likely), divert to another airport (AMS, BRU, FRA, any of the London airports, etc...).

B747forever · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:18 pm

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 9):
Quoting PA110 (Reply 6):

What does this mean for long-haul air travel and inbound aircraft already en route?

Probably diversions to nearby countries similar to the diversions on 9/11/2011 of US bound flights landing in Canada.

We dont know yet for how long the borders will be closed. Might open up again by tomorrow morning. Anyway, currently there are flights still departing from CDG.

Aesma · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:19 pm

Personally I don't think what Hollande said will mean anything for airplanes, especially not inbound ones. Clearly the terrorists aren't on board !

Cancelling some flights out of Paris to prevent terrorists fleeing, maybe.

[Edited 2015-11-13 15:20:59]

Web500sjc · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:19 pm

According to FR24, U2 2785 from MXP is about to land at CDG. There are several domestic French flights in the air along with a Gendarmerie National Helicopter over he center of Paris.

DDR · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:21 pm

mon coeur est avec le peuple de France ce soir .

Aesma · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:22 pm

Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 9):
Probably diversions to nearby countries similar to the diversions on 9/11/2001 of US bound flights landing in Canada.

9/11 was a terrorist attack using airplanes, that's not what's happening here.

ubeema · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:23 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
Personally I don't think what Hollande said will mean anything for airplanes, especially not inbound ones. Clearly the terrorists aren't on board !

Paris is on lock down that's the problem. You may land but get stuck in the airport. Imagine airport workers are affected too, if they cannot go home.

BlueDanube · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:24 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 15):
9/11 was a terrorist attack using airplanes, that's not what's happening here

Very true. Though closing the borders makes it harder for those responsible to escape and leave the country. Though as others have mentioned, we don't know how long the borders will be closed (could be hours, could be days, too soon to tell)

b747400erf · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:27 pm

If you can, I'd stay off transportation of any kind for the day, and even weekend, if you are able.

blueflyer · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:28 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 3):
Schengen treaty suspension and implementation of border controls occurs regularly by member states.

It is not a temporary imposition of border controls, but a closing of the borders along with an official state of emergency, the first since Algeria's independence.

Quoting ubeema (Reply 16):
Imagine airport workers are affected too, if they cannot go home.

Police and Paris region government are asking people to go/stay home until further notice and to voluntarily cancel public events.

jfklganyc · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:31 pm

Aviation will be very effected

Very shortly all flights to and from Paris will be grounded.

I imagine all outbounds from the US tonight will be turned back or diverted elsewhere.

This is another 9/11 in severity.

Pellegrine · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:31 pm

A TNT Cargo 734 took off for Liege ~5m ago.

OA260 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:34 pm

Police Helicopter activity over Paris :

csavel · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:34 pm

Quoting DDR (Reply 14):
mon coeur est avec le peuple de France ce soir .

Nous sommes tous français aujourd'hui.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 15):
Quoting flyingclrs727 (Reply 9):
Probably diversions to nearby countries similar to the diversions on 9/11/2001 of US bound flights landing in Canada.

9/11 was a terrorist attack using airplanes, that's not what's happening here.

I could see thinking, considering it looks like coordinated attacks, hey, perhaps one plane will be bombed or hijacked. Not likely in the post 9-11 world, but what with the French police have to deal with now, might make sense to be able to pull some away from the airports.

lancelot07 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:35 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 20):

Aviation will be very effected

Aviation is not the issue now.
I am speechless. R.i.P. for the victims, and hopefully the situation is resolved safely, and the terrorists brought to justice soon!

B747forever · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:35 pm

AF1121 took off from TLV about 40min ago, with ETA into CDG around 4:30AM.

When was the closure of the border announced?

OA260 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:37 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 25):
When was the closure of the border announced?

Its land border closure not air. Flights not effected so far.

B747forever · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:39 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 26):
Its land border closure not air. Flights not effected so far.

What is the point of only closing land borders and not include air also?

goldorak · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:39 pm

Quoting ubeema (Reply 16):
Paris is on lock down that's the problem. You may land but get stuck in the airport. Imagine airport workers are affected too, if they cannot go home.

Paris is not on lock down. Only the area where the different attacks are locked. Authorities have advised people to stay/return home but it's not a lock down. There is no problem going to/from the airports.

Mortyman · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:40 pm

Quoting Web500sjc (Thread starter):
1)is this the first time a Schengen Country has closed their borders since the implementation?

I beleave it was also done during the attack in Oslo, Norway back in july 22 2011 and it has been done several other times too.

SpaceshipDC10 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:41 pm

FX5124 taking off from CDG right now.

goldorak · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:43 pm

I'm of course no specialist of that, but I can't imagine this border closing means total suspension of international flights (including Schengen flights) to/from france. This is unconceivable. Knowing that border controls were reinstated today for the Schengen flights, could it mean "simply" a 100% passport control on departure & arrival for Schengen flights ?

lancelot07 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:44 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 27):
What is the point of only closing land borders and not include air also?

The terrorists would not leave the country by air, and others not enter it by air.

910A · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:44 pm

AF#83 is taxing at SFO as I write, and the UA flight to CDG has taken off.

mugler · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:45 pm

I read on twitter that this is the first time France closes its borders since WWII. Is it true? My condolences to France and its people for tonight's tragic incidents.

SpaceshipDC10 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:46 pm

Quoting goldorak (Reply 31):
Knowing that border controls were reinstated today for the Schengen flights,

Also on the ground, cars and drivers being checked, from what I've heard.

OA260 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:47 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 27):

The threat is on the ground not from the air. Its not like 9/11 at all.

blueflyer · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:47 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 27):
What is the point of only closing land borders and not include air also?

France doesn't have the manpower to quickly set up identity checks at all land borders since they have open border agreements with every single one of their neighboring countries. Closing the borders altogether is easier and requires less personnel.

Carrying out identity checks at the airport is easier since some of the infrastructure and personnel is already in place.

solarflyer22 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:51 pm

MSNBC is reporting they are holding flights on the runway at CDG. Looks like no one is getting out till they can clear them. Not sure about trains on the chunnel to London but I assume thats closed too.

Pellegrine · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:54 pm

So I guess air travel is not interrupted then. What's the point of closing the land borders? Strange.

mercure1 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:54 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 38):
MSNBC is reporting they are holding flights on the runway at CDG.

Non-sense. Look at FR24. Besides it being midnight and virtually no traffic, the few flights are coming and going.

goldorak · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:54 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 38):
MSNBC is reporting they are holding flights on the runway at CDG. Looks like no one is getting out till they can clear them. Not sure about trains on the chunnel to London but I assume thats closed too.

It's 1 am here in Paris, so there is no more train but, yes, I guess the tunnel is likely closed.
For flights, there is a heavy long-haul departure bank between 23:00 and midnight and that's likely those flights they are holding until all pax are properly checked and cleared.

goldorak · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:57 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 39):
What's the point of closing the land borders? Strange.

not strange at all : checking who's coming and who's leaving to eventually stop some people.

SpaceshipDC10 · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:59 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 38):
MSNBC is reporting they are holding flights on the runway at CDG. Looks like no one is getting out till they can clear them.

Not sure what they are talking about since many flights have departed before midnight as scheduled and next scheduled pax flight is at 05:20am local time.

http://www.flightradar24.com/airport/cdg/departures

Pellegrine · Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:59 pm

Quoting goldorak (Reply 42):

not strange at all : checking who's coming and who's leaving to eventually stop some people.

What's the point if air traffic is still going is my point. If terrorists can get automatic weapons and explosives, they can get fake papers/identities.

pvjin · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:02 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 44):
What's the point if air traffic is still going is my point. If terrorists can get automatic weapons and explosives, they can get fake papers/identities.

A good point. I guess it's just a way of giving people a sense of security, a way for the French authorities to make it look like they are actually doing something to protect French people. If some other terrorists are planning to commit attacks they most likely are already in the country anyway, so what's the point of closing borders?

goldorak · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:04 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 45):
so what's the point of closing borders?

simply to prevent the authors of the attack to leave the country.

northwestEWR · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:04 am

Interesting...... both CDG flights are enroute to CDG from ATL right now. Both Air France and Delta. No sign of them turning around or diverting at this time.

Pellegrine · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:05 am

A GLEX just landed at Le Bourget from Abuja, Nigeria. I think, me myself, I would have chosen to divert to GVA. What are you going to do in Paris with the city on lockdown?

goldorak · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:06 am

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 47):
Interesting...... both CDG flights are enroute to CDG from ATL right now. Both Air France and Delta. No sign of them turning around or diverting at this time.

Again, I don't believe this border closing thing means flights cancellation, diversions etc. It "just" means very strict ID control even for Schengen flights. On French TV they never said a word about interruption of international flights. If it was the case, I'm sure they would have said something about this.

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