Paris Terror Attacks, French Borders Closed

ktachiya · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:07 am

Quoting Web500sjc (Thread starter):
2) being an aviation forum, what does this mean for European flights to, from and over France?

My deepest condolences for what happened. I pray for as many lives to be saved as possible.

Forgive my ignorance for stating this, but I would be more concerned about flights that are destined to and from France. And already looking at how bad of a shape that Air France is, I would be really concerned about their survival.

goldorak · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:09 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 48):
What are you going to do in Paris with the city on lockdown?

THE CITY IS NOT ON LOCKDOWN !!

Pellegrine · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:11 am

Quoting goldorak (Reply 51):
THE CITY IS NOT ON LOCKDOWN !!

Did they not advise people to stay inside??? I don't imagine too many bars open right now.

goldorak · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:15 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 52):
Did they not advise people to stay inside

yes, they did but there is no curfew. You can go out, walk and drive if you want (outside the concerned area for the tracks of course)

vfw614 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:16 am

Sky News Breaking News:

France's Foreign Minister Says Airports To Remain Open And Flights And Trains Continue.

ro1960 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:16 am

I'm pretty sure closing the borders means reinstating passport control, not actually closing transborder traffic.

ro1960 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:19 am

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 19):
It is not a temporary imposition of border controls, but a closing of the borders along with an official state of emergency, the first since Algeria's independence.

State of emergency was declared in november 2005 after the riots in Paris' suburbs.

Pellegrine · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:19 am

Quoting ro1960 (Reply 55):
I'm pretty sure closing the borders means reinstating passport control, not actually closing transborder traffic.

Makes sense. They stormed the last venue yea? So I hope it is over now.

blueflyer · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:19 am

Quoting goldorak (Reply 51):
THE CITY IS NOT ON LOCKDOWN !!

It depends on what your definition of a lockdown is. City hall has already announced schools, universities and all city buildings normally open to the public on Saturday will not open. There is no official curfew but the police is asking people to stay home and for public events to be cancelled...

SonomaFlyer · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:20 am

We don't know if its over yet. The theater is being stormed as we speak but the scene is chaotic and confused right now. Everyone in Paris is to shelter in-place.

ro1960 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:22 am

FR24 shows all early morning flights still scheduled. ADP's web site only mentions public transport shut down.

Delays can be expected, though, due to strengthened security checks.

[Edited 2015-11-13 16:37:29]

ubeema · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:23 am

From my home airport CDG flight keeps being delayed. Cannot confirm if it is related to today events yet

vfw614 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:28 am

FOLKS - can this stop now, please:

Sky News Breaking News:

France's Foreign Minister Says Airports To Remain Open And Flights And Trains Continue.

goldorak · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:28 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 59):
The theater is being stormed as we speak but the scene is chaotic and confused right now.

It's over for about 30 min now. The 3 terrorists there have been killed. But they are searching the place for possible explosives. At least 100 casualties there. R.I.P

SpaceshipDC10 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:30 am

AF347 from YUL is currently taxying for takeoff.

RWA380 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:40 am

It has been mentioned here on the local NBC news affiliate, that the French President is aware of the identities of those responsible for today's attacks.

There is no further information regarding that statement, but this should certainly help narrow their search down to a few individuals, who likely are trying to get out of France ASAP.

JAmie2k9 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:47 am

AA to delay remaining departures to Paris, UA to operate as normal.

An overreaction by AA?

[Edited 2015-11-13 16:48:12]

VCy · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:53 am

Quoting Jamie2k9 (Reply 66):
An overreaction by AA?

Wouldn't say so as its only been a few hours since the attacks, but I get where you are coming from since the rest are operating as normal.

davescj · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:55 am

Quoting Jamie2k9 (Reply 66):
AA to delay remaining departures to Paris, UA to operate as normal.

DL flights from ATL are normal too. AA could be delayed for any number of other reasons.

ubeema · Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:57 am

Quoting Jamie2k9 (Reply 66):

AA to delay remaining departures to Paris, UA to operate as normal.

An overreaction by AA?

Today AA48 DFW-CDG is now cancelled

ro1960 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:03 am

Controls for all in and outcoming road, rail, sea and air traffic but no closing of airports (French foreign department)

http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/le-...nformations-aux-voyageurs-14-11-15

alfa164 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:05 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 20):
Very shortly all flights to and from Paris will be grounded.

No, they won't.

Quoting goldorak (Reply 49):
Again, I don't believe this border closing thing means flights cancellation, diversions etc. It "just" means very strict ID control even for Schengen flights. On French TV they never said a word about interruption of international flights. If it was the case, I'm sure they would have said something about this.

Land borders are closed - mostly not because of people trying to enter France, but because French police don't want any accomplices to escape the country.

LAXintl · Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:09 am

Ref AA48.

GDS says --

☨DTE CHNG FLT☨ ORIG 13NOV
PHX 1115A B14
DFW C15 C C11 243P 520P D D25
CDG ☨ 930A
4PHX/OUT1120 OFF1143 *1243
2DFW/IN1435 *1435
3DFW/DCSN1900 CRA-DELAY DUE TO CREW AVAILABILITY *1804
1DFW/ CANCEL DFW -CDG -OPX *1819
7DFW/AUTO REACCOM CXL FLT COMPLETED SEE N*P5AA0048DFW13NOV *1824*CRCYMG
2CDG/PRE1044 *1804
1CDG/LX CANCEL DFW -CDG -OPX-CXLD OPERATIONAL DECISION*1819

Initial 1:40 delay was due crew issues, then 15 minutes later they cancelled flight.

YYZAMS · Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:23 am

AF 351 from YYZ to CDG cancelled tonight. Is it related?

SpaceshipDC10 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:37 am

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 73):
AF 351 from YYZ to CDG cancelled tonight. Is it related?

Maybe yes, maybe not. On the yes side I could see it happening because they are implementing stricter controls and have to organize these. So instead of jamming airports, some flights are cancelled or delayed. Just a guess.

AF23 left JFK two hours late. Maybe they were waiting to see what would be decided regarding air traffic.

LAXintl · Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:43 am

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 73):
AF 351 from YYZ to CDG cancelled tonight. Is it related?

According to GDS flight does not operate on Nov 13th.

There was no inbound AF356 CDG-YYZ today either.

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 74):
AF23 left JFK two hours late. Maybe they were waiting to see what would be decided regarding air traffic.

GDS shows delay as "customer service"

RobertS975 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:50 am

According to Fox News, their intended overnight charter flight to Paris was cancelled due to closure of airspace to private aircraft.

blueflyer · Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:52 am

Quoting davescj (Reply 68):
AA could be delayed for any number of other reasons.

Every flight not yet departed is delayed by several hours (except for DFW already cancelled of course). CBS News also reported that American is cancelling tonight's flights to Paris.

mercure1 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:59 am

Quoting roberts975 (Reply 76):
According to Fox News, their intended overnight charter flight to Paris was cancelled due to closure of airspace to private aircraft.

No such closure.

You can view all French notams at
http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/

Lots of useless information and hysteria floating around.

910A · Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:09 am

Apparently the border control measures were going to happen anyways:
The restoration of border controls had already been decided on and implemented as of this Friday for a month to secure entry to the territory under the Paris Conference on Climate Change (COP21), scheduled from 30 November to 11 December, where 195 official delegations are expected. The President Francois Hollande announced in his first speech since the Elysee Palace Friday night "closed borders" to "ensure that no one will go to commit any act whatsoever. And at the same time as those who may have committed crimes that are unfortunately recorded can also be arrested if they were to leave the territory." The Ministry of Affairs Foreign subsequently had specified only land border "checks are carried out at points of road crossings, railway, sea and airport." "Airports continue to function. Air and rail links are provided "Has it added to the Quai d'Orsay. The state of emergency declared Friday by the head of state allows the authorities" to prohibit the movement of people or vehicles "to establish" zones of protection or security where the stay of persons is regulated "and forbid living in a geographical area" for anyone seeking to hinder, in any manner whatsoever, the action of government, "the 1955 law that created it.

http://www.tahiti-infos.com/Attentat...s-de-fermeture-Elysee_a140401.html

CO777DAL · Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:13 am

American Airlines holding Paris-bound flights because of attacks

From the Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local...und-flights-because-of-attacks.ece

American Airlines officials said Friday night they were "actively monitoring the tragic situation unfolding in Paris."

They said Charles de Gaulle International Airport is open, though they are holding all remaining departures scheduled for Friday night to Paris until more information is available.

mark2fly1034 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:18 am

One of the first North American arrivals will land in about an hour and half DL82 is scheduled to land at 0500 Local time.

rbavfan · Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:29 am

Quoting LGAviation (Reply 8):

So LH id strike!

SpaceshipDC10 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:31 am

Quoting roberts975 (Reply 76):
According to Fox News, their intended overnight charter flight to Paris was cancelled due to closure of airspace to private aircraft.

A319CJ M-KATE is crossing the country right in the middle as I write this.

rbavfan · Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:32 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 52):

They President told people to stay inside & that all transportation is stopped. How much more do you need to be on shutdown?

Pellegrine · Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:43 am

Quoting CO777DAL (Reply 80):
American Airlines holding Paris-bound flights because of attacks

From the Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local...und-flights-because-of-attacks.ece

American Airlines officials said Friday night they were "actively monitoring the tragic situation unfolding in Paris."

They said Charles de Gaulle International Airport is open, though they are holding all remaining departures scheduled for Friday night to Paris until more information is available.

I thought so, seeing that all their flights are delayed.

SLCUT2777 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:45 am

DL Flight 89 SLC-CDG still enroute
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL89

mercure1 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:52 am

Statement from Air France

Flash Info
Paris - security situation and Air France flights

Update on November 14, 2015 at 03.30 am (Paris local time)

We confirm that all of our upcoming flights from/to France are maintained per schedule following the events that occurred in Paris area this November 13.

Some departure and arrival delays are expected following the reinforcement of controls at the borders by the authorities.

We recommend passengers to anticipate their arrival at the airport and be in possession of a valid identification document.

Web500sjc · Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:00 am

Quoting ro1960 (Reply 70):

Controls for all in and outcoming road, rail, sea and air traffic but no closing of airports (French foreign department)

Do the Paris airports have enough customs/passport control to handle screening all Schengen flights the same as non-Schengen flights?

First flight into CDG this morning will be AF1121 from TLV estimated at 4:33am

First possible Schengen flight is AF 499, from SXM estimated at 5:37am. (is this flight considered Schengen or domestic in france?)

First european schengen scheduled arrivals at CDG are SN 3631 from BRU at 7:45am and AF 1611 from HAM at 7:50am.

[Edited 2015-11-13 19:01:57]

[Edited 2015-11-13 19:02:36]

[Edited 2015-11-13 19:03:25]

mercure1 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:09 am

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 88):
Do the Paris airports have enough customs/passport control to handle screening all Schengen flights the same as non-Schengen flights?

As discussed previously suspension of Schengen treaty and imposition of border controls is quite common occurance for special events and authorities are well positioned to accomplish this.

Remember also, this does not need to mean anything more than random passport controls, which can be accomplished on the jet bridge or onboard aircraft.

But yes there is a procedure for 100% controls of in/outbound passengers at airports like CDG if required.

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 88):
(is this Schengen in france?)

No. Saint Martin is not within Schengen area, but is within French customs territory

Pellegrine · Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:14 am

Yes the first flights to arrive @ CDG this morning are:

AF1211 A320 from TLV
AF381 B77W from PEK
UU975 B77W from RUN
AF463 B77W from MRU
ET704 B788 from ADD
DL82 B763 from ATL
AF833 A332 from PNR
AF805 A343 from COO
KQ112 B788 from NBO

and so on...

mark2fly1034 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:21 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 89):
First possible Schengen flight is AF 499, from SXM estimated at 5:37am. (is this flight considered Schengen or domestic in france?)

It is considered an international flight I do believe, they go though passport control on both sides, while it is French owned it is not considered a domestic flight.

OA412 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:40 am

It looks like DL82 is currently descending into CDG.

IndianicWorld · Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:46 am

RIP to all the victims of this terrible incident.

It must be hard to balance the security of the public and still trying to ensure he economy and life can go on to not give in to terror. Not an easy thing to get that mix right.

aviationaware · Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:30 am

Quoting Web500sjc (Thread starter):
1)is this the first time a Schengen Country has closed their borders since the implementation?

They can't close their borders, all they can do is close airports. Anything else has been cut down so stupidly and so severely that an effective supervision let alone lockdown of the border is impossible now.

One of countless examples of how stupid the headless EU policies are but also another instance that will not cause them to learn anything.

Navigator · Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:43 am

Quoting Web500sjc (Thread starter):
1)is this the first time a Schengen Country has closed their borders since the implementation?

No country in Europe closes its borders completely of course. But border control in place at all entrypoints to Sweden since noon thusday.

[Edited 2015-11-14 00:45:34]

goldorak · Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:25 am

Quoting rbavfan (Reply 84):
They President told people to stay inside & that all transportation is stopped. How much more do you need to be on shutdown?

Transportations are not stopped. Only a few bus lines and 2 métro lines which crosses the affected areas (due to on-going police investigations) are stopped at the moment.

LTU932 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:33 am

This is something completely different from the occasions, where Schengen gets suspended. Further, I just saw on CNN that there will be systematic passport/ID and baggage checks (upon arrival) in airports and land borders until further notice. So, there will be delays entering the country, even if you come from a neighbouring Schengen country such as Germany. Let's also not forget that, one of the great things about Schengen, is that you can easily commute between countries if you e.g. live in France, but work on the other side of the Rhine in Germany. So implications will be even bigger than during the regular border closings for special events, or the current ones due to the refugee situation.

ro1960 · Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:35 am

Quoting Web500sjc (Reply 88):
Do the Paris airports have enough customs/passport control to handle screening all Schengen flights the same as non-Schengen flights?

Extra staff will certainly be mobilised, probably not enough for normal throughput so delays will occur.

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 94):
They can't close their borders, all they can do is close airports. Anything else has been cut down so stupidly and so severely that an effective supervision let alone lockdown of the border is impossible now.

Of course it's possible to put mobile control posts at entry points with the help of all diverse forces (police, gendarmerie, army, etc).

And remember that a border has two sides, so help can be provided from forces on the other side if both countries agree. Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Spain are "friend" countries who could be facing the same threats. I doubt they will not cooperate.

[Edited 2015-11-14 02:39:30]

sfjeff · Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:19 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 89):
Saint Martin is not within Schengen area, but is within French customs territory

SXM is located on the Dutch side, not the French side of Saint Martin, hence the name of Princess Juliana International Airport.

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