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LY777
Topic Author
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List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:03 am

I think it could be interesting to make a list of all the fifth freedom flights in the world, with the equipment used.

Here we go:

- KQ: BKK-CAN (788)
- KQ: BKK-HKG (788)
- ET: HKG-NRT (788)
- ET: HKG-ICN (788)
- AF: SIN-CGK (77W)
- SQ: FRA-JFK (A388)
- SQ: BCN-GRU (77W)
- SQ: MAN-MUC (77W)
- KU: LHR-JFK (772?)
- LAN: MAD-FRA (788/789)
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
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777Jet
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:10 am

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
KQ: BKK-HKG (788)

BKK get's a lot of fifth freedom flights, and there are several on the BKK-HKG route you mentioned, including the EK A380.

BKK-SIN also has a few fifth freedom flights, including CX on whatever equipment they send on the day  
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
LY777
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:20 am

- KQ: BKK-CAN (788)
- KQ: BKK-HKG (788)
- ET: HKG-NRT (788)
- ET: HKG-ICN (788)
- AF: SIN-CGK (77W)
- SQ: FRA-JFK (A388)
- SQ: BCN-GRU (77W)
- SQ: MAN-MUC (77W)
- KU: LHR-JFK (772?)
- LAN: MAD-FRA (788/789)
- EK: BKK-HKG (A388)
- CX: BKK-SIN (EQV)
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
byronicle6
Posts: 550
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:22 am

NZ LAX-LHR 77W
LA AKL-SYD 789
EK MEL-AKL 388
EK SYD-AKL 388
EK BNE-AKL 388
CI BNE-AKL 333/744
CI SYD-AKL 333
CI SYD-CHC 333
CI MEL-CHC 333
PR CNS-AKL 320 (from December)
QF DXB-LHR 388

+

EK SIN-MEL 77W
EK SIN-BNE 77W
EK BKK-SYD-CHC 77W
EK KUL-MEL 77W

[Edited 2015-11-15 03:26:25]
Travel is my thing
 
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777Jet
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:26 am

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 3):
EK MEL-AKL 388
EK SYD-AKL 388
EK BNE-AKL 388

Again to mention BKK, EK do BKK-SYD with the 77W...  
Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 3):
QF DXB-LHR 388

How about QF LAX-JFK with the 744? Is that a fifth freedom flight or classified as something else as it's restricted to certain through pax only?
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
321neo
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:38 am

ET: DUB-LAX
CA: VIE-BCN
 
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AirIndia
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:44 am

EK: MXP-JFK
EK: GIG-EZE
EK: ACC-ABJ
EK: LUN-HRE
EK: LCA-MLA
 
LY777
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:18 pm

- KQ: BKK-CAN (788)
- KQ: BKK-HKG (788)
- ET: HKG-NRT (788)
- ET: HKG-ICN (788)
- AF: SIN-CGK (77W)
- SQ: FRA-JFK (A388)
- SQ: BCN-GRU (77W)
- SQ: MAN-MUC (77W)
- KU: LHR-JFK (772?)
- LAN: MAD-FRA (788/789)
- EK: BKK-HKG (A388)
- CX: BKK-SIN (EQV)
- NZ: LAX-LHR 77W
- LA: AKL-SYD 789
- EK: MEL-AKL 388
- EK: SYD-AKL 388
- EK: BNE-AKL 388
- CI: BNE-AKL 333/744
- CI: SYD-AKL 333
- CI: SYD-CHC 333
- CI: MEL-CHC 333
- PR: CNS-AKL 320 (from December)
- QF: DXB-LHR 388
- EK: SIN-MEL 77W
- EK: SIN-BNE 77W
- EK: BKK-SYD-CHC 77W
- EK: KUL-MEL 77W
- EK: MXP-JFK
- EK: GIG-EZE
- EK: ACC-ABJ
- EK: LUN-HRE
- EK: LCA-MLA
- AI: HKG-ICN
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
santos
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:28 pm

Garuda AMS-LGW B77W

[Edited 2015-11-15 04:28:38]
 
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XAM2175
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 4):
How about QF LAX-JFK with the 744?


If they were allowed to carry US domestic passengers on that sector it could be considered "eighth freedom"*, but without the traffic rights it's no go.

* = technically only freedoms 1-5 are officially enumerated by various treaties. Freedoms 6-9 are more just shorthand terms.

[Edited 2015-11-15 04:37:34]
 
atal17
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:39 pm

AI HKG-KIX (788)
9W BRU-YYZ (330)
9W BRU-EWR (330)
CI DEL-FCO (333)
Q2 (Maldivian) MAA-DAC (320)
UU MAA-BKK (738)

[Edited 2015-11-15 04:41:05]

[Edited 2015-11-15 04:42:01]
 
AngMoh
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:24 pm

For SQ the ones I can thing of:

FRA-JFK
BCN-GRU
MUC-MAN
NRT-LAX
ICN-SFO
HKG-SFO
DME-IAH
MXP-BCN


I believe there are a few more in the middle east
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739/ER 742 743 744/M 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
jfk777
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:25 pm

SQ HKG -SFO & SQ LAX -NRT.
 
38m
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:55 pm

For KE

NRT-HNL
KIX-GUM
LAX-GRU
 
747WanSui
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:43 pm

Both CX and PR fly YVR-JFK.
Long live the Boeing 747!
 
jaysan
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:57 pm

PR flies YYZ YVR - 773
 
Andy33
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:04 pm

For BA
SIN-SYD
AUH-MCT
Then there's 8 or 9 tag-ons in the West indies but I've never been sure which have 5th Freedom.
There are also lots of 5th freedom rights that are no longer exercised but may still be valid, such as BKK-SYD.
 
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Spiderguy252
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:17 pm

KU:
BKK-MNL (343)
KUL-CGK (343)

Q2:
MAA-DAC (321)

9W:
BKK-SGN (739ER)
Vahroone
 
RetiredWeasel
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:30 pm

Delta (after the merger) assumed the NWA fifth freedom rights out of NRT (unless unknown to me they were re-negotiated). These rights include flights out of NRT to just about every major city in Asia. Some pairings are still operational, some flown for a while and dropped and some re-instated. Equipment changes frequently.

Here's a 2010 thread that asked the same question.

Fifth Freedom Rights (by globalflyer Dec 4 2010 in Civil Aviation)
 
vv701
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:41 pm

Quoting Andy33 (Reply 16):
Then there's 8 or 9 tag-ons in the West indies but I've never been sure which have 5th Freedom.

Checked out six possible suspects on ba.com. BA is selling tickets on ANU-PLS, ANU-TOB, ANU-SKB and POS-UVF but not on ANU-PUJ or NAS-PLS.
 
bastew
Posts: 752
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting Andy33 (Reply 16):
For BA
SIN-SYD
AUH-MCT

Also on LHR originating flights:
BAH-DOH
NAS-GCM
And probaby a few more intra-caribbean routes on flights ex LGW.
 
kl911
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:14 pm

KLM:

AUH - BAH
SIN - DPS
KUL - CGK
DOH - MCT
HRE - LUN
EZE - SCL
KWI - DMM
 
mozart
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:54 pm

Not sure whether intra-EU flights count as fifth freedom (given that they happen within one single aviation market), but here are some flights that start in the airine's home country and then continue between two points outside the airilne's home country:

Luxair: Saarbrucken-Hamburg
Air Berlin: Palma-Malaga
Air Berlin: Palma-Alicante
Air Berlin: Palma-Bilbao
Air Berlin: Palma-Faro
Air Berlin: Palma-Ibiza
Air Berlin: Palma-Sevilla
Air Berlin: Palma-Valencia

And of course also many of the Ryanair and easyjet flights fall in this category.

--------------------------------
Outside the EU:

South African: Accra-Abidjan
Air Canada: Santiago de Chile-Buenos Aires
LAN: Lima-Los Angeles
Qatar Airways: Bangkok-Hanoi
Qatar Airways: Saigon-Pnhom Penh
Qatar Airways: Baku-Tblisi
Qatar Airways: Sao Paulo-Buenos Aires

---------------------------------
This one is unfortunately no longer with us (I suppose), but it was an impressive fifth freedom flight:

Conviasa, later Iran Air: Tehran-Damascus-Caracas
 
B777LRF
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:07 pm

Quoting mozart (Reply 22):
Not sure whether intra-EU flights count as fifth freedom (given that they happen within one single aviation market), but here are some flights that start in the airine's home country and then continue between two points outside the airilne's home country:

Not 5th freedom; any EU based carrier is free to launch services between any points within the community.
Signature. You just read one.
 
Viscount724
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:43 am

Quoting jaysan (Reply 15):
PR flies YYZ YVR - 773

That's not 5th freedom. PR has no traffic rights on that domestic (cabotage) sector. The only passengers permitted are those originating/terminating MNL.
 
Viscount724
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:03 am

Don't believe mentioned yet:

JJ: JFK-YYZ (763)
KU: GVA-FRA (A332)
KU: CDG-FCO (A332)
HY: RIX-JFK (763)
 
qf15
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:23 am

Nauru Airlines does a bit of 5th Freedom island hopping in the South Pacific.

BNE-HIR
TRW-MAJ-KSA-PNI-TKK

It's will soon possible to do a 7 leg, 17hr journey from TKK to BNE on a 733 though this passes through Nauru. Only aviation enthusiast's need apply for that one!
 
aa1818
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:22 am

BA has a bunch of 5th freedom within the Caribbean
For example UVF-POS comes to mind, but i know there are many others.

Cheers,
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:49 am

Some other ones:

CA: PEK-GRU
CA: YUL-HAV
AC: SCL-EZE
TN: LAX-CDG
AF: LAX-PPT
NZ: LAX-RAR
 
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Coal
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:06 am

UA SIN - NRT
UA SIN - HKG
UA SGN - HKG
KL SIN - DPS
KL KUL - CGK
KU KUL - CGK
CX BKK - SIN
KB SIN - CCU
HY KUL - SIN
WY KUL - SIN

Among many, many others in SE Asia.

Rgds
Coal
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
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adamblang
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:12 am

UA fifth freedom:
KWI-DOH
NRT-SIN
HKG-SIN
HKG-SGN
NRT-ICN
ROR-MNL
YAP-ROR
MNL-TKK

UA sixth freedom / cabotage:
TKK-PNI
PNI-KSA
KSA-KWA
KWA-MAJ

[Edited 2015-11-15 21:14:08]
 
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RJ321
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:12 am

RJ BKK-HKG B788
Also, the airline will be starting a new fought soon that includes a fifth freedom flight as well.
KUL-Guangzhou B788
And KUL-CGK B788
 
covert
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:21 am

This type of thread has popped up many times in the past--there are a lot out there, and I doubt that there is a comprehensive enough central repository that is publicly available outside of ICAO or IATA channels that will be able to list them all. Even if there was, due to the bilateral nature of these agreements, international bodies might not even know about some of them.
none
 
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qfvhoqa
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:44 am

EK SIN-CMB
UL BKK-CAN
MS BKK-KUL
ET BKK-KUL
TZ TPE-NRT, TPE-ICN, BKK-KIX
DL TPE-NRT, MNL-NRT
CX TPE-NRT, TPE-NGO, TPE-FUK, TPE-KIX, TPE-ICN
3K TPE-KIX, BKK-FUK
TG TPE-ICN, HKG-ICN
CI NRT-HNL
 
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B727skyguy
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:47 am

Here are a few more that I haven't seen anyone list yet:

HKG-BKK
UL (333)
RJ (787)

BKK-KUL
ET (763)
RJ (787)
MS (773)

KUL-SIN
WY (332)

MIA-PUJ
G3 (738)
 
Skyeurope
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:27 pm

Flew KUL-SIN on Uzbekistan 763 UK-67004 last week. Only about 30 pax on board, but the 763 had a surprising up to date interior. PTVs with one of the latest systems.
 
mozart
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:51 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 28):
TN: LAX-CDG
AF: LAX-PPT

Not fifth freedom. AF and TN are French carriers, their flights from LAX (USA) to CDG (France) and PPT (France) are not fifth freedom.
 
rnav2dlrey
Posts: 383
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RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:29 pm

Quoting adamblang (Reply 30):
UA fifth freedom:
KWI-DOH

it's UA KWI-BAH 981/982 (for another 2 months, then cancelled)
 
AirGAbon
Posts: 676
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:56 pm

KU:
CDG-FCO
GVA-FRA

EK:
ABJ-ACC (daily B77W)

SA:
ABJ-ACC (3W A343)
LBV-DLA (4W A320)

MS:
ABJ-ACC
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:59 am

Quoting irishayes (Reply 28):
Some other ones:

CA: PEK-GRU

That's not 5th freedom. You probably mean MAD-GRU which is. (Flight operates PEK-MAD-GRU.)
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5392
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:06 am

DL's are

NRT-PVG
NRT-HKG
NRT-ROR
NRT-MNL
NRT-TPE
NRT-SIN
NRT-BKK


and I'm pretty sure the NRT-KIX flights are 5th freedom
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:09 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 40):
DL's are

NRT-PVG
NRT-HKG
NRT-ROR
NRT-MNL
NRT-TPE
NRT-SIN
NRT-BKK


and I'm pretty sure the NRT-KIX flights are 5th freedom

No, that's domestic (cabotage or 8th freedom). No local traffic rights. DL can only carrier their own passengers continuing to/from the U.S.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5392
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:19 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 41):

No, that's domestic (cabotage or 8th freedom). No local traffic rights. DL can only carrier their own passengers continuing to/from the U.S.

Your right I had a dumb moment and forgot what 5th freedom was.

DL can sell NRT-SIN only but NRT-KIX tickets must be sold as XXX-NRT-KIX.

thanks for the correction Viscount.

having said that, quick question. DL can sell say SIN-NRT-KIX correct? it doesn't have to be US point-NRT-KIX right?

[Edited 2015-11-18 17:20:11]
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:25 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 42):
having said that, quick question. DL can sell say SIN-NRT-KIX correct? it doesn't have to be US point-NRT-KIX right?

[Edited 2015-11-18 17:20:11]

I doubt it. DL should only be able to carry U.S.-KIX passengers on the NRT-KIX sector.
 
steex
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:45 am

RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:33 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 42):
DL can sell say SIN-NRT-KIX correct? it doesn't have to be US point-NRT-KIX right?
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 43):
I doubt it. DL should only be able to carry U.S.-KIX passengers on the NRT-KIX sector.
Delta1011man is correct, DL can sell international traffic to KIX via the NRT connection from any of its interport destinations. SIN-KIX is perfectly legal within DL's fifth freedom rights, the connection in Tokyo makes no difference. It's the same as QF carrying JFK-originating traffic that is bound for any of its outbound LAX flights, including AKL when they still flew it.

[Edited 2015-11-18 17:33:48]
 
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lesfalls
Posts: 3420
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:58 pm

RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:11 am

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 38):

What about ACC-IAD?
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
AirGAbon
Posts: 676
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:36 pm

Quoting Lesfalls (Reply 45):
What about ACC-IAD?

Yes, you are right, same as DKR-IAD still with SA.
 
LY777
Topic Author
Posts: 2579
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:46 pm

Is AUA-CUR operated by KLM a 5th freedom flight?
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
steex
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:45 am

RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:23 pm

Quoting LY777 (Reply 47):
Is AUA-CUR operated by KLM a 5th freedom flight?

This would not be considered fifth freedom because Aruba and Curacao are both constituents of the larger Kingdom of the Netherlands
 
LY777
Topic Author
Posts: 2579
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

RE: List Of Fifth Freedom Flights

Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:01 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 48):

I think that this flight is not bookable
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388

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