Short Lived Type At Airlines

Okie · Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:25 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 95):
and 4 leased People Express birds...

Correct you are N551PE, N561PE, N563PE, N564PE the PE a clue.

I can only find one of the BN birds.
N406BN, that color scheme should tickle some gag reflexes.

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Photo © George W. Hamlin

Okie

treebeard787 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:34 am

I don't believe it was mentioned yet, but HP operated a fleet of Dash-8-100s for a short time.

maxpower1954 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:40 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 93):
AA probably has historically had some of the most short-lived fleet types, mostly through merger and acquistions. Some made it into AA liverys, some were hybrids, others never did.

American was the first U.S. airline to retire the DC-3, replaced by the Convair 240. It was operated from 1936 to 1948 - just 12 years.

The Convair 990 and the BAC 1-11 were easily the worst equipment decisions AA made. The 990 was chosen because it had a speed edge over the 707 and DC-8. It never lived up to the hype and they were gone after less than six years.

The BAC 1-11 was ordered as an Electra replacement so AA could be all-jet by 1968. It had reliability issues from the start and was actually noisier inside and less comfortable than the L-188. They were all retired by 1972 after six years. Most of them were converted to corporate aircraft

RJ321 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:00 am

I believe Armenia's -now defunct- Armavia operated the SSJ for a very short period then stored the aircraft. Do not know the reason of that however.

RJ321 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:02 am

Also, didn't Alitalia operate the 767 for a short period of time ?

PSU.DTW.SCE · Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:12 am

Another short-lived fleet type:

Compass Airlines (NW Airlink) CRJ-200 for about 6 months in 2007

When NW started Compass, they flew a single CRJ-200 twice a day on MSP-IAD until the E175s were delivered a few months later. They bought the former ACA/Independence Air certificate and took 1 of the 2 CRJ-200s from Mesaba and flew it on the Compass certificate.

Viscount724 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:12 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 5):
Pan Am's L15's went to UA with the PA Pacific Division and were quickly unloaded, to DL IIRC.

Only 6 of Pan Am's 12 L15s went to UA as part of the Pacific routes purchase deal. DL acquired 5 of those aircraft and one went to LTU in Germany. DL had previously acquired 3 Pan Am L15s directly from Pan Am and the other 3 had been sold to the RAF. So in the end DL wound up with 8 of Pan Am's 12 L15s.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 52):
Quoting gr8slvrflt (Reply 39):
Eastern:

DC-6
DC-8-61/63
747
DC-10

All in service less than five years ~

The EA DC-8-61s/63s were with them that short of a time? I would have guessed much longer.

Yes. Many of the -61s went to JAL after only 3 or 4 years with Eastern. And the 6 -63s had a similarly short stay at EA. I believe they acquired the -63s when they were optimistic that they might get some longhaul international routes (Pacific I think) but they got nothing from that route case and quickly disposed of the aircraft.

Quoting beechnut (Reply 96):
CP and the 737-300, 727-100, 727-200, 747-100/200 which all had short service lives with the airline.

CP never operated the 747-100, and they operated the 747-200 for 13 years, not that short. All 4 of the -200s were traded to PIA for 4 of their DC-10-30s which were much more appropriate for CP routes.

su184 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:44 am

In the 80's Boeing bought three A310's orders from Kuwait Airways and gave them three 767's instead.

Rage · Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:48 am

I haven't seen mentioned FedEx and the 737

Sparrow787 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:26 am

F9-737
IB- 733, 744, 763

steady eddie · Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:55 am

RYR A320?? saw this at LTN Summer 88

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Photo © Gabriel Desmond

or this, same era, also used on the LTN-DUB route

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Photo © Bill Sheridan

[Edited 2015-11-17 01:58:41]

N1120A · Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:08 am

Quoting Dash9 (Thread starter):
An example I can think is AC that kept his A345 for only 3 years, replaced with B77W. It appears to be a very drastic change considering the cost of introducing a new type on long haul.

AC replaced the on-order A346s with the 77W, while replacing the A345 with 77Ls. They also replaced the A343s with a combination of 77Ws, 77Ls and moving around A333s and 763s

Quoting intotheair (Reply 7):
The A342 and...almost...anyone who had one...

Except Aerolinas Argentinas!

Quoting intotheair (Reply 7):
The A345 fleet didn't last too much longer either.

SQ flew them for some time.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 19):
AA with the MD11

10 years. Not short.

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 80):
AF and the B767

12 years. Hardly short.

foxdelta · Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:15 am

Also IB and B737-400 (leased from UX, just like the B733 and B763)

nzrich · Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:24 am

Air NZ and the Bae 146 2008-2009

babaero · Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:35 am

CX and the A346 - stop gap for JFK till the 77ER

KA and the 742, 743 and 744

PAL and the 727 and Caravelle

CI and the 762 and A320

Sparrow787 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:46 am

Quoting foxdelta (Reply 112):

Very true my friend
It seems Iberia never had a good marriage with Boeing

edina · Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:58 am

Quoting speedbird707 (Reply 18):
I recall British Airways using DC10/MD11 (?) briefly after acquiring British Caledonia...odd ball to the fleet

BA flew the ex BR DC10-30s for over a decade........hardly short lived!!

na · Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:11 am

What is short-lived? 5, 6 years I would say.
And of course excluding short term leases never planned to last long.

Ok, here we go with relatively recent examples:

MD-11 at Air Namibia.
77E at Aeroflot.
77W at Kenya Airways.
77L at Air India.
77E at Orenair.
77E at Royal Brunei.

Flyingsottsman · Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:23 am

What about KE and the MD-11 I know they had DC-10s but it seemed like the pax version of the md-11 in KE fleet didn't stay around for long. I do remember seeing one at LAX back in 1992.

Flyingsottsman · Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:28 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 32):
My first thought was NZ's DC-10-30's but in comparison to some of the fleets here they actually lasted a while. They had 8 delivered from 1973 - 1977 and were all retired by 1982 meaning the youngest only served around 5 years.

Yeah they were the long haul work horse for ANZ use to see them ay MEL all the time. The DC-10s went out of their fleet I think after the Mt Eribus crash, but yes It was 1982 when they got their 742s.

PATristar · Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:55 am

Quoting gatibosgru (Reply 1):
JJ didn't keep their MD-11s/A345 for very long (but I believe that was intended).

Yes it was intended while they were waiting for their 777-300

SpaceshipDC10 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:02 pm

Quoting Flyingsottsman (Reply 118):
What about KE and the MD-11 I know they had DC-10s but it seemed like the pax version of the md-11 in KE fleet didn't stay around for long. I do remember seeing one at LAX back in 1992.

KE MD-11s were converted to freighter in 1995, 1996, 1997 & 1999. Thus between 1991 and 1999 KE flew pax MD-11 and between 1995 and 2005 MD-11(F)s.

anfromme · Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:23 pm

Quoting intotheair (Reply 7):
LH and the 767 (not counting Condor)

Those three (D-ABUC, ABUV, ABUW) were all operated by Condor, though.

Cool topic, anyway - will have to read through it more thoroughly when I get back home

wmblanco · Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:47 pm

TABA operated the 2 BAe 146-100 only for months.

airbazar · Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:57 pm

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 80):
AF and the B767

AF operated the 767 for 12 years: 1991-2003. I wouldn't call that short lived. The 762's however, were in the fleet for 6 months only.

LH526 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:15 pm

LanChile had a smal interlude with the B757 from Ladeco .. operations of one fram eoly lasted for about a year.

RRTrent · Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:39 pm

Quoting n729pa (Reply 25):
Aer Lingus Tristars

They were only for a short least for a couple of summers in the early 90's. EI also leased the MD11 for summer periods in the min 90's

While on the topic, EI operated the 767 in the early 90's for a couple of years. I believe they had a couple delivered new which were then leased out almost immediately.

SpaceshipDC10 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:41 pm

Quoting RRTrent (Reply 126):
I believe they had a couple delivered new which were then leased out almost immediately.

Indeed, I saw both in full TW colors from 1994.

KLRU · Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:08 pm

SK kept their SAAB 2000 for four years (actually about three years from last delivery to departure from the fleet)

hOMSaR · Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:24 pm

Quoting tomaheath (Reply 36):
Would like to see some photos of UA DC-10 and Southwest 727!

If only there was a website where one could put in an airline and airplane type into a search box and get photos.

Quoting vatveng (Reply 73):

Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 21):
AirTran and the lone wet-leased A320.

I think they actually had 3 of them as part of that deal. There's no way they could serve ATL-LAX/LAS/SFO daily with one plane.

And it was an evaluation of sorts, they wanted a second fleet that was bigger and longer-ranged than the 717. They ultimately went with the 737 instead.

As I recall, it wasn't an evaluation but a stop-gap. FL already knew they were going with the 737-700, and had the planes on order. However, they wanted to get the transcon flights started before the 737s could be delivered, so they went with these planes because they were available in the timeframe needed. They were always meant to be temporary, hence the wet-lease. I don't think wet leases count for the purposes of this thread, as they tend to be short-term by their very nature, and thus don't represent an airline "changing its mind" regarding a type.

cgnnrw · Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:39 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 124):
AF operated the 767 for 12 years: 1991-2003. I wouldn't call that short lived.

My first CDG-PHL was operated on an AF 767. That must have been around 2002/03. The route was then converted to the A330-200. A shame AF left PHL.

na · Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:48 pm

Did anyone already mention LH and the 737-400?

[Edited 2015-11-17 06:58:07]

winterlight · Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:04 pm

Ratioflug and their single A300.

Pilawt · Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:07 pm

Alaska Airlines -- Convair 880 and 990, though not at the same time

olddominion727 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:08 pm

Let's not forget the HP disaster when they had their 742's. From KL originally slated PHX-NGO. They axed it, then moved them to PHX/LAS-HNL

SRQKEF · Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:18 pm

While FI are adding 767s to their fleet again next spring, they already flew the type in 2005 for under a year, using TF-FIB which was then later transferred to their subsidiary Loftleidir Icelandic:

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Photo © Baldur Sveinsson

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Photo © Eric Fortin AirTeamImages

Loftleidir then later leased it to Travel Service in the Czech Republic, that again only used it for a couple years:

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Photo © Daniel Villa León-Canary Island Spotting

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Photo © Roberto Falciola - Malpensa Spotters Group

Similar story of TF-LLA, used by Primera Air Scandinavia only over the course of one winter season:

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Photo © Martin Djupenstrom

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Photo © Sam Chui

And while they didn't use it for as short of a time, FI only used their 734s for around 10 years before going all-757:

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Photo © Paul Spijkers

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Photo © Baldur Sveinsson

For a very short period in the late 70s FI leased a DC-10. It almost bankrupted the airline as the worldwide DC10 grounding occured weeks from its arrival:

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And in the 80s 747-100 N356AS operated for FI for a short while:

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Photo © Kambui

SpaceshipDC10 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:46 pm

Quoting SRQKEF (Reply 135):
And in the 80s 747-100 N356AS operated for FI for a short while:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/edge-to-edge-photography/12198726126

It seems they had it twice:

http://www.planespotters.net/airfram...Boeing/747/19730/N356AS-Icelandair

EDIT: something else FI leased for a short time: http://www.flickr.com/photos/edge-to-edge-photography/8864266999

[Edited 2015-11-17 08:48:35]

Mortyman · Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:50 pm

Former Norwegian airline Braathens S.A.F.E operated two Boeing 767-200 in the 80's, but it only lasted for 2 years. The airline was not able to fill up the aircraft on a regulare basis and they became too expensive to hold on too. The airline used them on regulare flights abroad but also charter flights. At the end you could be so lucky to experience flying Boeing 767's domestically in Norway !

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warden145 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:11 pm

Quoting anfromme (Reply 122):
Those three (D-ABUC, ABUV, ABUW) were all operated by Condor, though.

True, but it's worth noting that D-ABUC got to wear he LH livery for a little while

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macsog6 · Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:38 pm

Boeing 377 at AA's old AOA subsidiary, 1949-1950. Two years plus a few months.

747buff · Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:21 pm

USAir and the BAe146s they inherited from PSA. US only kept them for about three years, then ditched them along with most of the old PS routes.

NW also inherited some Convair 580s from RC and flew them for two years after the merger.

aerokiwi · Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:03 am

Quoting sparrow787 (Reply 115):
It seems Iberia never had a good marriage with Boeing

Wll they did operate 747s for a few decades. Also 757s for, what, 15-20 years?

rikkus67 · Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:33 am

Quoting diverted (Reply 8):
AC inherited some 737-200's after the CP merger. They flew along as "Zip" for a while.

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Photo © Trevor Ogle

The 737's in AC's fleet didn't last too long, but boy did they keep the painters busy for a few years (This doesn't include hybrid schemes between the 3 divisions)!

turk223 · Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:34 am

BWIA and their two A321s... 9Y-BWA and 9Y-BWB lasted 5 months, I think. Delivered new from Airbus in 1996.

sparky35805 · Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:40 am

AOA was Sold to Pan Am along with the Stratocruisers,Constellations,and a few DC-4s.The Stratocruisers continued with Pan Am until 1959-1960.

BoeingGuy · Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:29 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 141):
Quoting sparrow787 (Reply 115):
It seems Iberia never had a good marriage with Boeing

Wll they did operate 747s for a few decades. Also 757s for, what, 15-20 years?

The longest IB 757s were in service 13 years from 1993-2006.

ROCDLFAN · Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:40 am

We can now coincidentally ass G4 and the 757. Being retired by Q1 2017

dcajet · Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:48 am

Quoting 330lover (Reply 6):
I remember AR operated A320 only for a very short period (months or even weeks only).
No idea of the reason why...

Two frames arrived, ex Thomas Cook Belgium, but they never entered service. If memory serves, this was around 2006, with AR part of Spain's Marsans. AR's pilots union, APLA, refused to fly them stating that not enough type training had been provided and that no spares part for a reliable operation had been procured. Additionally, the leases for those two 320s were outrageous for two frames that dated from the early nineties and added nothing to AR. This was a knee jerk reaction from Marsans to the entry in the Argentina market of LAN Argentina.

The two planes were stored in EZE for some time until Marsans was shown the door in 2008 and I presume the Argentinian Treasury was stuck with the bill. Marsans collapsed shortly thereafter and its top management landed in a Spanish jail for among other things, fraud and embezzlement.

zippyjet · Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:49 am

Maybe off topic/not answering question but Eastern and National both used Boeing jets as stopgaps till their ordered jets were delivered.

1. National- Flying 707's with Pan Am crews/Pan Am livery till they got their DC-8's.
2. Eastern leasing Boeing 747's while waiting for their L-1011's. Would Eastern have kept flying 747's had Lockheed (L-1011 program) went kaput due to the RR engine cluster you know what?

Adipasquale · Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:03 am

I'm not sure this has been mentioned yet, but LA and the A318. I believe they were in the fleet for about six years, from 2007-2013.

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