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UA444
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:35 am

Way to give 55%, AA. Grey plane when it's supposed to be white, "American" titles when it's supposed to say "Trans World".
 
kraz911
Posts: 191
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:40 am

Hello all,

The a/c is gray. The picture of it coming into a gate in sunshine shows off the white outlines around the doors. And no glare reducing dark paint under the cockpit windows. I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt but the bulk purchase of AA stickers for these retro planes, and just mistakes/ omissions make the aircraft look cheap.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9693
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:44 am

Quoting davescj (Reply 99):
Back story on this? Wow...must have been something of a mess.

I was trying to look back at my correspondence from that time. I ran across a youtube video from when TWA celebrated Randy's 75th birthday in 1999. Just google Randy Kramer TWA 75th. It's not super-professional, but it shows clearly how much everyone loves Randy, and what a true gentleman Randy is, doing everything he can to deflect attention from himself and put it instead on his coworkers and others, and to promote the airline. Everyone from the EVP of the airline, to the DFO, etc., all sent missives of congratulations, and it memorializes that that is when they dedicated the club to him, and spent some actual money on a nice display at the entrance. Randy and his brother both flew in the War, and his brother went to fly for American, and Randy to TWA, where he flew for 30-something years, appearing on the cover of the TWA timetable and elsewhere while he was still flying.

So when, after AA took over and some nitwit decided to do what they did, it was a disgraceful act that got a lot of attention from those who knew -- and therefore loved -- Randy. He very quickly asked everybody to chill, gentleman and positive person that he is. He had no sense of entitlement about what he was doing, and his sincere attitude was that it was absolutely their right to do what they did and that he had had a great run. I don't recall the exact sequence but, IIRC, the whole thing -- waaaay too late -- eventually came to the attention of somebody very senior at AA who had the ability to recognize the significance/stupidity of what they had done. I don't remember what apologies or invitations were extended, but in the end, Randy moved on.

I was so happy to see a photo of him in the paper from 2014, his 90th year, working with the Condor Squadron and looking like what most 65-year-olds look like.

And I also realize that Captain Randy wouldn't have wanted me to say a single word of this, so in deference to what I know would be his wishes, I will now shut up about it for yet another decade.
 
aerokiwi
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:19 am

Right so I can admit when I'm wrong - definitely grey. And it's that awful drab AA grey that they went with.

Strange and a shame.
 
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res77W
Posts: 339
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:28 am

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 93):

I remember that beauty, one gorgeous bird. AA went all out for that one, and US went all out for their 319s, it's sad to see these 737s so inaccurate. The black anti-glare paint is missing from the cockpit, as well as from the QQ jet.
 
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gdg9
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:03 pm

Didn't US Airways go back and redo the PSA retro jet after a good number of people pointed out the first attempt was not quite accurate? Perhaps they will do this now with the TWA plane, although I doubt it. White fuselage please and put the registration in red as well, as was done on TWA.
@dfwtower
 
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DL_Mech
Posts: 2567
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:33 pm

Quoting res77W (Reply 104):
The black anti-glare paint is missing from the cockpit, as well as from the QQ jet.

The black paint was removed by TWA in the late 80s.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

Former AMT on A220,A310,A319/20/21,A330,A350,B707,B717,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,B777,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,
MD-80/90,MD-11
 
YYZFAN
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:41 pm

I know there are A.net photos, but I caught this jet at the gate yesterday from the Skylink train:

async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8">>

async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8">>

async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8">>
 
trnswrld
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:31 pm

Thanks for the pics. I guess it depends on the lighting, but in most pics I have seen so far the gray is light enough to where it pretty much looks white enough. Yeah I know it's not perfect or how anyone else would have done it, but it's already done. We know American obviously isn't the best at executing old liveries.
I have been tracking the plane trying to see it fly over, but every time it comes to Chicago it's been dark  
 
PC12Fan
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Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:39 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 103):
Right so I can admit when I'm wrong - definitely grey. And it's that awful drab AA grey that they went with.

My question is - why?? It makes no freakin' sense.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
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777Jet
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:27 am

That is one ugly plane. I know the livery is 'retro' by definition, but it doesn't look retro at all. Way too much red on the tail. Just ugly.


Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 20):
it's truly the wrong livery for a heritage jet. The double globe livery better represents the Golden-era TWA many of us love. I don't know why so many of your are fascinated with the Icahn era livery.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
doulasc
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:33 am

I don't get why some are disappointed that the TWA retro was on a 737-800 saying TWA never used a 737 and should
have been on a plane TWA used like a MD-80,757 or a 767.MD-80s are being phased out.American will start
retireing the 767-300 and 757s in a few years.If TWA was still around maybe TWA would have ordered the 737-800,
but it looked like TWA was heading toward a Airbus fleet. I think the 737-800 is OK for the TWA retro jet but my only
beef is it is Grey and not white.I American painted a Airbus A319 or 320 in TWA people would say the same thing.

[Edited 2015-11-20 19:35:59]
 
trnswrld
Posts: 1386
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:45 pm

^^^ yeah you're right no matter what color scheme they went with, no matter what airplane they used, you're gonna have people crying and moaning one way or the other. Even though I think we can all agree AA didn't do the best job executing the paint jobs, I would still rather have what we have now rather than nothing at all.
 
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cathay747
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:25 pm

Yeah, it's grey. It's awful. Shame on AA. Same with
the Reno Air heritage jet.

If you're going to do something, do it right!

OK now, moving along.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
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JBo
Posts: 1779
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:31 pm

You know, there really isn't any excuse for AA to be painting these planes with a grey base coat.

Has there been any statement from AA explaining this?

I mean, we know it's bulls**t that they "can't be white."

It's disappointing that AA is doing a half-arsed job on these new heritage jets. I'm with everyone else in that you either need to do it right, or not at all. A faithful recreation is not that difficult.

Also, having seen that AA has a monochromatic version of the new logo, they really should use that and do what US did: color-match the logo to the livery.

To be honest, I think what's happening here is that the "Branding Gods" at AA are imposing their will upon these heritage liveries, and imposing completely arbitrary restrictions on what colors they can/can't use because it would "hurt the brand" (or whatever buzzword terminology they use)
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
DETA737
Posts: 625
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2000 3:47 am

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:49 am

I'm surprised they didn't even bother putting the American flag above the TWA logo on the tail.
 
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gdg9
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:35 am

Quoting JBo (Reply 114):
Has there been any statement from AA explaining this?

Yes, I emailed AA about it and got a response - I have put the response on my website. Basically, it is indeed in the standard grey paint. The explanation was that with radomes, cargo doors etc being swapped out it would look odd to have a white fuselage with grey doors or radome.

The AirCal plane will have a grey base as well.
@dfwtower
 
UA444
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:40 am

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 116):

Pathetic excuse. Not to mention that the LUS birds are not grey.
 
OB1504
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Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:46 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 103):
Right so I can admit when I'm wrong - definitely grey. And it's that awful drab AA grey that they went with.

I saw it today in person and was trying to be open-minded about it, but it looked awful, especially because it was gray against a gray sky.

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 105):
redo the PSA retro jet after a good number of people pointed out the first attempt was not quite accurate? Perhaps they will do this now with the TWA plane, although I doubt it. White fuselage please and put the registration in red as well, as was done on TWA.

I'm hoping AA does this too.
 
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winterlight
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:27 pm

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 116):
Basically, it is indeed in the standard grey paint.

But minus the pearl clear coat.
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:14 pm

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 112):
you're gonna have people crying and moaning one way or the other.

Meeting or medium for an exchange of views. That is the definition of forum.

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 113):
If you're going to do something, do it right!

Exactly.
 
JustinPistone
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:22 am

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:19 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 117):
Yes, I emailed AA about it and got a response - I have put the response on my website. Basically, it is indeed in the standard grey paint. The explanation was that with radomes, cargo doors etc being swapped out it would look odd to have a white fuselage with grey doors or radome.

The AirCal plane will have a grey base as well.

That's a pretty bad excuse they gave you, quite frankly. If they replace a cargo door on the Reno jet, there is still going to be a break in the cheatline. If they replace a radome on the TWA jet, those cheatlines will have a break as well. And seeing how their planes were bare metal with gray composite components that gave off a patchy appearance for all these years, I don't buy that reasoning at all either.
 
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Miami
Posts: 6194
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:27 am

Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
UA444
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:39 am

And they should've put red stripes on the winglets.
 
wn676
Posts: 1748
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:29 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 94):
IIRC, the main reason why the now-nearly decade-old AL/HP/PI/PS/US Heritage schemes were applied on A319s (original renderings showed A320s, remember those?) was because that particular type was widely used throughout US' domestic route system.

Yes, I do remember those renderings. IINM they were up on the wall for a pretty long time at CHQ when you first walked in. To this day I think the reasoning for the A319s is still valid; while they 321 has surpassed the 319 to become the largest subfleet of the Airbuses, they're not as pervasive throughout the system, especially in smaller/seasonal stations.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 94):
Yes, US still had 737s in their fleet (733s/734s) at the time but those were starting to be phased out; and neither HP nor US had any 737NGs in their fleet. Pre-AA merger US/HP, was on the verge of ultimately becoming an all-Airbus mainline fleet (former-TZ 757 aquisitions notwithstanding).

Absolutely; the 737 classics were not long for either airline's fleet. This was reaffirmed back in 2009 I believe when US firmed up their last big narrowbody order with Airbus after reportedly evaluating 737NGs.

I just think it's funny to see comments like "this would have looked better on 'X' aircraft," especially the MD80s and 757s. Two aircraft that are in the process of being phased out, and are increasingly limited in where they're being flown.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 94):
Obviously, the merger with AA (with their newer Boeing planes) threw cold water into US' one-time plan to be be an all-Airbus airline and the decision to use 738s for their newer Heritage scheme planes became an available choice that didn't exist (for Doug Parker) until recently.

I think it's good they decided to split the heritage jets between two fleet types, LUS/LAA roots notwithstanding. It did suck for a while to be in the western half of the country and only get to see the HP heritage jets regularly as the others were all (and still are) on EOW 319s. That double whammy meant that they were not only limited by the ongoing contract dispute, but were also more heavily deployed within the old PMUS network that needed those capabilities. At least now it's more of an even spread.

[Edited 2015-11-23 07:30:44]
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
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American 767
Posts: 4543
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:46 pm

Quoting doulasc (Reply 111):
.American will start
retireing the 767-300 and 757s in a few years.

They started retiring those already.

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 113):
Yeah, it's grey. It's awful. Shame on AA. Same with
the Reno Air heritage jet.

We'll see if they do that again on the next retro jet, which will probably be Air Cal.
Ben Soriano
 
UA444
Posts: 3002
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:19 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 125):

They said they were. I imagine it's in paint now and will show up this week.
 
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gdg9
Posts: 1014
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RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:29 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 125):
We'll see if they do that again on the next retro jet, which will probably be Air Cal.

Yes, the email from AA directly said AirCal will have the grey base rather than white.
@dfwtower
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:47 pm

Quoting doulasc (Reply 111):
American will start retireing the 767-300 and 757s in a few years.

Per Skyliner:

Boeing 757-223 ... 27447 ... 722 ... N609AA ... American Airlines ... ferried 17nov15 DFW-ROW for storage

Boeing 757-223 ... 24598 ... 350 ... N640A ... American Airlines ... ferried 21nov15 DFW-ROW for storage
 
UA444
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:49 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 128):

Line number 722 is rather youngish. Are we sure that isn't for paint?
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 129):
Line number 722 is rather youngish.

Yes, however delivered in July 1996.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 129):
Are we sure that isn't for paint?

Don't know, but it flew there as AA1002, which is the flight number it operated the day before between MIA and DFW.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2300
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:17 pm

These retro liveries just make me sad...so many great carriers swallowed up over the years. I flew on one of TW's last flights...was from STL to MCO. Very senior crew and it was their last trip together. To learn after what AA (and APFA) had in store for those proud TW crew made me feel so badly for them. Seems like salt in the wound to paint a TWA retrojet.
 
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DL_Mech
Posts: 2567
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:46 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 123):
And they should've put red stripes on the winglets.

I disagree. Too many stripes is overkill. I never did like it when they added stripes to the engines of the 767s.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Pedro Aragão




Here is Delta doing the stripe overkill:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



[Edited 2015-11-23 13:51:44]
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.

Former AMT on A220,A310,A319/20/21,A330,A350,B707,B717,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,B777,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,
MD-80/90,MD-11
 
trnswrld
Posts: 1386
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 2:19 am

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:03 pm

Yeah I think winglet stripes would have been over the top for this particular heritage livery.

[Edited 2015-11-23 14:08:28]
 
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comairguycvg
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:01 pm

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:34 pm

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 116):
Basically, it is indeed in the standard grey paint. The explanation was that with radomes, cargo doors etc being swapped out it would look odd to have a white fuselage with grey doors or radome.

Then I wonder why they didn't make Piedmont, Allegheny, America West and PSA standard grey?
Worked at: CV62, RJTA, KNLC, CV63, KNFL, OKAJ, KTRI, CV67, KMGE, KNQX, KVPS, KPIT, KCVG, KTYS, KATL
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:59 pm

Quoting comairguycvg (Reply 134):
Then I wonder why they didn't make Piedmont, Allegheny, America West and PSA standard grey?

When US Airways originally did those, weren't the planes white?
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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comairguycvg
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:01 pm

RE: AA Unveils TWA Retrojet

Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:38 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 135):
When US Airways originally did those, weren't the planes white?

Yes but they just recently repainted them. Must have been after the repaints that they decided to make the 737 retros grey.
Worked at: CV62, RJTA, KNLC, CV63, KNFL, OKAJ, KTRI, CV67, KMGE, KNQX, KVPS, KPIT, KCVG, KTYS, KATL

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