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HB-IWC
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Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:10 pm

Belgian media is reporting the Jet Airways has informed its Brussels based employees that the airline is closing its BRU scissor hub at the end of March:

http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20151118_01977226 (in Dutch only)

9W is currently still operating 4 daily flight between Brussels and Delhi, Mumbai, Newark and Toronto, after it previously closed its operations to and from Chennai and New York JFK.

As the article mentions that the Indian expats will be relocated to India, I would not expect 9W to move its operations to the previously mentioned AMS, MXP and CDG alternatives. I would rather expect all US-bound traffic to be routes through AUH via the airline's Etihad tie up.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:34 pm

With the partnership with EY, I had assumed this already occurred.

How many 9W 777s fly AUH to the Americas?

Lightsaber
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Ytraveller
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:42 pm

So 9W will essentially end its own service to the US/Canada? That would be disappointing.

I flew JFK-BRU-MAA in 2009, neither of these flights exist anymore. It was a nice experience.
 
factsonly
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:53 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
As the article mentions that the Indian expats will be relocated to India, I would not expect 9W to move its operations to the previously mentioned AMS, MXP and CDG alternatives.

Could it not be that 9W has chosen to go for operational cost savings by entering into a close 'JV type' cooperation with an EY partner airline at AMS, CDG or MXP, as a result of which expatriate 9W staff are no longer required in Europe.

The airline carries close to 500.000 pax through BRU each year.

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/...portunities-for-brussels-airport-/
 
ndhair37
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:03 pm

Such a shame. Etihad clearly not filling planes enough and trying to get more people on board. Perhaps they want the A332s for something else? Transfer to AB or Alitalia?
 
migair54
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:08 pm

Why not trying to build strong hubs in India?? they can serve EWR and YYZ from DEL and BOM, offering plenty of connectivity to all the destination in India via 1 stop, before it was 2, if they really want to make money in the NA market they'd better start doing thing better.

If you want to travel between BLR and YYZ why to take 9W and do BLR-BOM-BRU-YYZ if you have 1 stop options via ME3??

I understand that for destinations not served they can give the pax to EY, but why to do that with their own destinations??

They really need to start fighting and not relying on the partnership only, one of the biggest bussiness for ME3 is India, so why 9W can't make it work?? maybe they need another management with a more global and maybe more agressive vision.
 
ndhair37
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:17 pm

Whilst you can offer DEL and BOM to at least EWR / JFK and probably turn a profit; I wouldn't be so sure about everything else. What I would have said was far more appropriate was getting Jet Airways to join, at least in my opinion, OneWorld and then using the Transatlantic connectivity at DUB and LHR and also to use Hub Capacity at JFK and ORD.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:23 pm

I'm confused: does this mean that 9W will ax its DEL-BRU, BOM-BRU, EWR-BRU and YYZ-BRU routes?

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
How many 9W 777s fly AUH to the Americas?

Good question. 9W currently has four 77Ws on-hand and per OAG I am seeing the following nine routes affected:

DEL-LHR
BOM-LHR
BOM-HKG
JFK-AUH
SFO-AUH
GRU-AUH
DEL-AUH
BOM-AUH
DEL-BKK

Quoting ndhair37 (Reply 4):
Such a shame. Etihad clearly not filling planes enough and trying to get more people on board. Perhaps they want the A332s for something else? Transfer to AB or Alitalia?

Actually, not quite the case.

Scissor hubs are no longer viable in today's environment. They were relevant in the 80's and 90's when aircraft range couldn't capably connect markets like NYC to DEL/BOM, so having operations in European hubs made sense.

Then, when airline alliances were formed and JVs were created, things changed. The carriers could tie-up with partners in Europe to do the heavy lifting where it made sense, e.g. Air Canada handing over ZRH-DEL to SWISS.

The explosive growth of the Gulf carriers then added an entirely new dimension to the landscape. So did the advent of advanced aircraft technology like the 787 to connect long-haul, lower-yield markets like India to North America. Now, finally that some carriers have tied up with the Gulf airlines, there is virtually zero chance for scissor hubs to stay alive. It's why DL cancelled AMS-BOM, DL and UA are reducing NRT-Asia, etc.
 
jasoncrh
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:37 pm

I think it's pretty clear. They're closing the hub. all those routes will go away.

Quoting irishayes (Reply 7):

I'm confused: does this mean that 9W will ax its DEL-BRU, BOM-BRU, EWR-BRU and YYZ-BRU routes?
 
ap305
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:37 pm

Quoting ndhair37 (Reply 4):
Perhaps they want the A332s for something else?

At least some of the a332's will start flying to SIN shortly.
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lightsaber
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:53 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 5):

India taxes jetfuel too much. These routes might have 7% profit pre-tax. Since the tax will add about 10% to the flight cost, ULH from India isn't viable. The GoI also needs to simply international to international connections. That should be 30% of the passengers and 20% of the revenue. Against such handicaps, the airlines of India will not be able to compete.

Quoting irishayes (Reply 7):
Winter is coming.
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:08 pm

Can 9W operate a daily India-AUH-YYZ with a full 5th freedom? Etihad would be happy given the restrictions to Canada.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:24 pm

If BOM-BRU-EWR is disappearing then it's a perfect opportunity for EY to start AUH EWR. No brainer with all the Indians in NJ.
 
LJ
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:57 pm

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 11):
Can 9W operate a daily India-AUH-YYZ with a full 5th freedom?

No, they can't AFAIK the UAE - Canada only allows UAE and Canadian airlines.

Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 11):
Etihad would be happy given the restrictions to Canada.

Why? EY can't codeshare if this would even be possible.
 
migair54
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:19 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
India taxes jetfuel too much. These routes might have 7% profit pre-tax. Since the tax will add about 10% to the flight cost, ULH from India isn't viable. The GoI also needs to simply international to international connections. That should be 30% of the passengers and 20% of the revenue. Against such handicaps, the airlines of India will not be able to compete.

If i'm not mistaken PM Modi said that they will revise the policy for aviation in India, spacially taxes for fuel and spare parts, since some airlines in India are taken the planes out of the country for checks and that money is going away from the country, and India has very qualified work force and infrastructures to do, but the taxes are killing the business.

I know it's difficult but not impossible, actually I think it's easier to do non stop from India than the way they were doing via BRU, they can also get pax on international transit to Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Maldives, and some more countries around India, Not Pakistan obviously, plus the huge India market it could work.

The ME3 airlines have two main problems right now, access to India and access to Canada, both problems are easier for 9W to overcome. BOM and DEL have space to grow and they are unrestricted 24/7 operation.

Air India have some NA routes, I know Air India is a lost case, but don't you think 9W could start NA non-stop, they even serve SFO in the past via PVG, now things have change and I think they are much more stablished and with the B789 arriving in 2017 things can work easier than with the actual fleet.
 
B747forever
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:23 pm

Did Jet Airways have a code share agreement with SN to get feed for their flights out of BRU? If not, then I guess SN/LH must be delighted with the news.
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reality
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:26 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 14):
don't you think 9W could start NA non-stop, they even serve SFO in the past via PVG,

Etihad is at SFO operating Jet Airways 777 aircraft to India via AUH. Air India is non-stop SFO DEL.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:31 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 15):

Did Jet Airways have a code share agreement with SN to get feed for their flights out of BRU? If not, then I guess SN/LH must be delighted with the news.

SN is happy regardless. If they had codeshare they got cheap feed before but now can do it themselves at higher profit margin. If they didn't codeshare now the competitor is off their home turf and SN has BRU all to themselves.

Regardless, the writing was definitely on the wall once the EY deal was inked.

Interestingly, YYZ will now be disconnected from BRU, seeing that AC only flies YUL-BRU and not YYZ-BRU. Maybe AC can jump in to fill in the gap.
 
bralo20
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:17 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 17):
Interestingly, YYZ will now be disconnected from BRU, seeing that AC only flies YUL-BRU and not YYZ-BRU. Maybe AC can jump in to fill in the gap.

SN has requested slots for BRU-YYZ in S16, also additional slots are requested for BRU-EWR by UA which will add a second flight.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:27 pm

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 18):

SN has requested slots for BRU-YYZ in S16, also additional slots are requested for BRU-EWR by UA which will add a second flight.

BRU airport needs slots ? Or is it just a procedural thing ?
 
330lover
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:32 pm

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 18):
SN has requested slots for BRU-YYZ in S16, also additional slots are requested for BRU-EWR by UA which will add a second flight.

SN to YYZ
2nd UA to EWR

great for BRU and *A
interesting times ahead !
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jetblue1965
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting 330lover (Reply 20):
SN to YYZ
2nd UA to EWR

great for BRU and *A
interesting times ahead !

Combined, from BRU on *A, it'll be

NYC 3x (2xUA EWR 1xSN JFK)
IAD 2x (UA+SN)
ORD 1xUA

YYZ 1xSN
YUL 1xAC

Next opportunities for *A out of BRU should be BOS, MIA, IAH, and SFO.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:48 pm

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 18):
SN has requested slots for BRU-YYZ in S16

Cool. Did Sabena ever flew to YYZ? I know they served YUL and ORD further west in the US.
 
bralo20
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:57 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 22):
Cool. Did Sabena ever flew to YUL and ORD further west in the US.
SN (Sabena) flew to following airports across the pond:

(IDL)JFK / BOS / ATL / ORD / EWR / DFW / CVG / ANC / DTW / IAD / YUL / YMX / Top
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:08 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 19):
BRU airport needs slots ? Or is it just a procedural thing ?

Yes BRU is slot controlled
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:13 pm

Quoting Bralo20 (Reply 23):
SN (Sabena) flew to following airports across the pond:

(IDL)JFK / BOS / ATL / ORD / EWR / DFW / CVG / ANC / DTW / IAD / YUL / YMX /

Wow, thanks. I wasn't aware they served so many cities. So if Brussels Airlines start YYZ, it's going to be a first.

I'm not aware of that but can passengers from say Europe cross the Atlantic on 9W? If so, how many are they between YYZ and BRU?
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:16 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 25):
Wow, thanks. I wasn't aware they served so many cities. So if Brussels Airlines start YYZ, it's going to be a first.

I think that list was meant to be "ever served in history, at one point or another", not simultaneously. Certainly the YUL/YMX part would conflict.
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:24 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 13):
Quoting HeeseokKoo (Reply 11):
Can 9W operate a daily India-AUH-YYZ with a full 5th freedom?

No, they can't AFAIK the UAE - Canada only allows UAE and Canadian airlines.

Thanks for clearing it up.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 26):
I think that list was meant to be "ever served in history, at one point or another", not simultaneously.

At least I know ANC was there to connect with Japan before Russia opened its sky.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 26):
Certainly the YUL/YMX part would conflict.

Sure, YMX was probably served between 1975 and 2001.
 
tomcat
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:43 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Thread starter):
I would not expect 9W to move its operations to the previously mentioned AMS, MXP and CDG alternatives

I read today in an other Belgian newspaper that 9W obtained 3 slots at AMS for S16 and that it is expected that 9W will relocate its operations to AMS.
 
blueflyer
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:30 pm

Jet Airways has mentioned in the past that they could move their scissor hub to AUH. It is close enough that they can feed it on one side with narrowbody flights from more Indian destinations than they ever could in BRU. On the other side, Jet can code-share on Etihad as well as use its planes, and traffic rights, to add frequencies to destinations where Etihad is maxed out.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 19):
BRU airport needs slots ?

Looks like the non-Schengen terminal came up a bit short. Gates can be at a premium in the morning if someone isn't running on schedule. In the morning, a section of the Schengen terminal is closed off and used for Brussels Airlines' flights to Africa in order to free up gates in the non-Schengen terminal.

Quoting tomcat (Reply 29):
I read today in an other Belgian newspaper that 9W obtained 3 slots at AMS for S16 and that it is expected that 9W will relocate its operations to AMS.

Jet Airways requests slots in AMS every summer.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 21):
YYZ 1xSN
YUL 1xAC

Interesting. The new TATL service doesn't come as a surprise, as it has been mentioned for years, but I expected Brussels Airlines to take over YUL with an A332 while Air Canada opens YYZ with a 789, since Brussels has nothing smaller than their A330s.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:39 am

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 28):
At least I know ANC was there to connect with Japan before Russia opened its sky.

Back in the 80's DC10 days I think.

-Dave
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Rishul93
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:34 am

A business standard report posted a few days ago suggested that 9W will move to AMS and "is in talks with AF-KL and DL for commercial partnerships and code-sharing on Europe and North American routes".

http://www.business-standard.com/art...f-european-hub-115110600837_1.html
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:55 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 31):
Back in the 80's DC10 days I think.

Yes, and perhaps 747s too, though I'm not sure when Russia opened its sky.



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B8887
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:48 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 5):
If you want to travel between BLR and YYZ why to take 9W and do BLR-BOM-BRU-YYZ if you have 1 stop options via ME3??

The ME3 competition is biting hard.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 30):
In the morning, a section of the Schengen terminal is closed off and used for Brussels Airlines' flights to Africa in order to free up gates in the non-Schengen terminal.

Yes, the gates at the far end of the A gates.

Regards.

B8887
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:55 pm

Look guys, the day when 9W was bought by EY, was the day it was certain that sometime later the European 9W hub system would close. EY never reveals much of what it plans to do with 9W in advance, but it is obvious that any decision 9W takes would be always and always to improve profits for EY.

9W is basically to EY what UK is to US in terms of foreign policies. Accept it.
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atal17
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:11 pm

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 35):

You really do need to look above

Quoting Rishul93 (Reply 32):

A business standard report posted a few days ago suggested that 9W will move to AMS and "is in talks with AF-KL and DL for commercial partnerships and code-sharing on Europe and North American routes".

http://www.business-standard.com/art...f-european-hub-115110600837_1.html

Quoting tomcat (Reply 29):

I read today in an other Belgian newspaper that 9W obtained 3 slots at AMS for S16 and that it is expected that 9W will relocate its operations to AMS.
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:28 pm

Quoting atal17 (Reply 36):
You really do need to look above

That piece of news is that it was published on November 7th. While the rumors and news that followed afterwards has been that of finding Brussels hub ‘unviable’, rethinking on continuing with it, without any mention of AMS or any other alternatives.

Quote:
Jet's discontinuation of a European hub will be a more smooth transition than AI. The Maharaja stopped using Frankfurt as it European 'scissor' and was able to join Star Alliance many years later in 2014. While it can now provide connections to its passengers on Star Alliance partners from any international city it flies to, the intervening period from when Frankfurt ceased to be its hub and till it joined Star was difficult for its flyers in terms of ease of connections.
Jet, on the other hand, flies to Abu Dhabi from many Indian cities and offers connections to its flyers on Etihad's vast network. Flyers wanting to fly to Europe will get connections from cities like London and Paris, where Jet flies to nonstop from India.



The more recent news of 9W Euro hubs do not contain any mention of AMS anymore. If someone wants to pull up older stories, be my guest, just make a point to read the most recent news regarding the same as well.

Nobody would be happier than me if 9W opens AMS instead of BRU, but it would be much better for EY and is the ultimate plan of them to route 9W via AUH in the future, which is what they seem to be doing. There is lesser chance about AMS happening for 9W, but if one fine day it does happen, all I would say is - nothn like it!
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
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adambrau
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:01 pm

As an aside, I must say BRU really needs an upgrade. That pier where UA/AA/DL depart from is just really dated. The lounge UA uses for it's pax was overcrowded and dirty when fights to the USA/ME were leaving. I flew to EWR on the UA 777 and although the flight was great the airport itself is certainly no AMS/ZRH/FRA. I think the last time I flew out of BRU was on a PA A300 to LHR with 5 passengers but I was only 17 so I didn't really notice what the terminal was like....but as the head of the EC and NATO and other large organizations where I would guess there are a lot of HVF can't the airport authority or Brussels chip in a bit more?
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tomcat
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:31 pm

Quoting adambrau (Reply 38):
can't the airport authority or Brussels chip in a bit more?

You obviously don't know anything about Belgian politics  . If Brussels city would chip in, it would be to get the airport closed or significantly downsized. Rest assure the Brussels city couldn't care less about the dated look of BRU. And even if it would care, it has no say about the management of BRU. BRU is a private company that owns and manages the airport infrastructure, while it's the federal government who is in charge of the air trafic (mis)management.
 
PieterBoth
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:19 pm

It was quite nice to see the Jet Airways fleet in BRU in the mornings...however, even better to hear SN may start YYZ in 2016.
What will happen to the disappearing Belgium-India links? I flew 9W BRU-BOM once, and I got the impression very few people joined the flight at BRU. I assume SN would not attempt India, and there isn't really another airline that would fill the void of a direct link. So was the direct link between BRU and India just an added bonus which will now disappear?
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:32 am

Quoting PieterBoth (Reply 40):
So was the direct link between BRU and India just an added bonus which will now disappear?

  
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:51 am

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 33):
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 31):
Back in the 80's DC10 days I think.

Yes, and perhaps 747s too

I just remember the DC-10's. The 70's (and early 80's) were a great time to be in ANC. I can still hear all the widebodies climbing out over my dad's house heading north over the pole.

Quoting Rishul93 (Reply 32):
A business standard report posted a few days ago suggested that 9W will move to AMS and "is in talks with AF-KL and DL for commercial partnerships and code-sharing on Europe and North American routes".

That could make a lot of sense.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:45 am

Quoting PieterBoth (Reply 40):
So was the direct link between BRU and India just an added bonus which will now disappear?

Unless there is a market that warrant a flight from India to BRU, yes it should disappear.
 
S75752
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:12 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 5):
Why not trying to build strong hubs in India?? they can serve EWR and YYZ from DEL and BOM, offering plenty of connectivity to all the destination in India via 1 stop, before it was 2, if they really want to make money in the NA market they'd better start doing thing better.
Quoting migair54 (Reply 14):
Air India have some NA routes, I know Air India is a lost case, but don't you think 9W could start NA non-stop, they even serve SFO in the past via PVG, now things have change and I think they are much more stablished and with the B789 arriving in 2017 things can work easier than with the actual fleet.

I think that 9W was resistant due to seeing how difficult India - USA is to serve, with so many airlines having failed it (Their PVG service does not count, as that was not a US - India service at all).

The nail in the coffin was ultimately EY, who upon eating them would probably not allow them to form competition to their USA-AUH-India services.

It would have been wonderful to have had 9W be the one joining *A and serving SFO nonstop to India, especially given their pre-existing cooperation with UA and AC, but I guess they were just a perfect meal for EY.
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: Jet Airways To Close BRU Hub

Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:53 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 44):
The nail in the coffin was ultimately EY, who upon eating them would probably not allow them to form competition to their USA-AUH-India services.

     

What I have been trying to say all this while, put together simple and straight. 9W is EY's bi**h now, and will remain so as long the latter owns it.
India's biggest loss w.r.t global aviation (so far) - Being an Australasia-Europe stopover.

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