Air Austral Removes 777-200LR From Service, Why

Beatyair · Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:04 pm

Why would Air Austral remove its 777-200LR from service? It can't be that old. Do you think Delta will pick it up?

Braniff747SP · Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:10 pm

Fundamentally, because it never made any economic sense in the first place.

Beatyair · Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:12 pm

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 1):

Fundamentally, because it never made any economic sense in the first place.

So there 3 - 777-300 are economically working out for them?

beakerltn · Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:14 pm

I saw this flying over the UK a couple of days ago, heading towards the US as flight no. 9001.. thought it looked unusual then. - I wonder where it went?

MaverickM11 · Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:15 pm

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 1):
Fundamentally, because it never made any economic sense in the first place.

It's a high unit cost plane, in a low unit revenue leisure market

Quoting Beatyair (Thread starter):
Do you think Delta will pick it up?

You know DL has run out of places for the 77L when they put it on ATLLIM

SpaceshipDC10 · Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:23 pm

Quoting beakerltn (Reply 3):
I wonder where it went?

Air Austral 77L At LAX, Nov. 16 2015 (by bw50505 Nov 16 2015 in Civil Aviation)

SonomaFlyer · Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:43 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 4):
Quoting Beatyair (Thread starter):
Do you think Delta will pick it up?

You know DL has run out of places for the 77L when they put it on ATLLIM

DL certainly hasn't run out of places to fly the 77L. LIM is a major cargo market segment for DL and the 77L is a freight monster. The decision to fly to LIM wasn't accidental and not a result of having no where else to send the plane; it was made due to high cargo demands and that cargo is pretty heavy. This way, they can take tons of cargo and no have to bump passengers.

DolphinAir747 · Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:46 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 6):
DL certainly hasn't run out of places to fly the 77L. LIM is a major cargo market segment for DL and the 77L is a freight monster. The decision to fly to LIM wasn't accidental and not a result of having no where else to send the plane; it was made due to high cargo demands and that cargo is pretty heavy. This way, they can take tons of cargo and no have to bump passengers.

As long as people like having stinky pee, airlines will make money on the LIM cargo market.

Navion · Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:03 pm

This may be the 77L that Crystal has bought for luxury tours and charters.

MaverickM11 · Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 6):
DL certainly hasn't run out of places to fly the 77L

There are worse places to put a 77L than ATLLIM, but when an airline pulls out of India, reduces its sole HKG nonstop to 2/week, and accelerates the phasing out of its 747s, it's clear the mission appropriate options for the 77L are slim.

Fly-K · Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:46 pm

Quoting Beatyair (Reply 2):
So there 3 - 777-300 are economically working out for them?

As this thread has been hijacked to a DL discussion, let me come to the OP's topic.

If they manage to fill the extra seats, yes the 77W is working better for them, more revenue and more or less the same cost. And they don't need the 77L range.

SpaceshipDC10 · Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:53 pm

Quoting Fly-K (Reply 10):
yes the 77W is working better for them

CDG-RUN is their longest route (about 5,000nm), and they are competing with SS' 744s and AF's 77Ws.

jmchevallier · Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:59 pm

Air Austral purchased the B77L primarily to operate non-stop flights from Mayotte to Paris, expecting this over-powered plane to be able to compensate for the short runway there. I do not believe it worked.

hz747300 · Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:57 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 7):
As long as people like having stinky pee, airlines will make money on the LIM cargo market.

Um, is Peru a big exporter of asparagus? I thought the big exports were copper which would seem better to ship by boat and leaves crushed into a paste then dried as a powder for high impact energy.

Quoting Fly-K (Reply 10):
If they manage to fill the extra seats, yes the 77W is working better for them, more revenue and more or less the same cost. And they don't need the 77L range.

When they took them, I believe they flew to Australia too. Anyways, it's quite a specific aircraft and airlines that have them may not have the need for them (Air India for example). For a leisure market where the route CDG-RUN is billed as the longest domestic route in the world, it does seem unnecessary. Maybe CX can pick them up!

Aesma · Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:02 am

Quoting jmchevallier (Reply 12):
Air Austral purchased the B77L primarily to operate non-stop flights from Mayotte to Paris, expecting this over-powered plane to be able to compensate for the short runway there. I do not believe it worked.

For performance reasons, or market ones (too expensive for the passengers) ?

CupraIbiza · Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:45 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 7):
As long as people like having stinky pee, airlines will make money on the LIM cargo market.

I picked up on your reference.
I used to be heavily involved importing asparagus from LIM into MEL. Often used to fly via Canada!

IndianicWorld · Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:33 am

I could see DL getting some and using them on LAX-MEL.

Could be a chance

Chaostheory · Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:01 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 6):
. LIM is a major cargo market segment for DL and the 77L is a freight monster. The decision to fly to LIM wasn't accidental and not a result of having no where else to send the plane; it was made due to high cargo demands and that cargo is pretty heavy. This way, they can take tons of cargo and no have to bump passengers.

I wouldn't call it a freight monster in a pax config.

DL's A330-300s can probably lift more.

SKAirbus · Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:56 pm

Why does every thread become a DL thread eventually?

The 77L is only useful on ULR routes; that is what it was design for.

If Air Austral need a lighter aircraft with a similar capacity I would suggest either procuring some older 777-200ERs or ordering the A350-900.

Navigator · Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:14 pm

Quoting jmchevallier (Reply 12):
Air Austral purchased the B77L primarily to operate non-stop flights from Mayotte to Paris, expecting this over-powered plane to be able to compensate for the short runway there. I do not believe it worked.

I may be completely wrong but I think the 77L was meant for Sydney and that route is discontinued?

jfk777 · Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:18 pm

Quoting skairbus (Reply 18):

The 77L is only useful on ULR routes; that is what it was design for.

If Air Austral need a lighter aircraft with a similar capacity I would suggest either procuring some older 777-200ERs or ordering the A350-900.

Air Austral does fine with their 77W flying between France and Reunion, they are both large people and freight haulers. The 777LR was the plane they were going to fly to Sydney Australia with. They never did and they were stuck with an 8,000 miles plane for 5,000 flights. Maybe they should have tried JFK but that would probably wouldn't have worked as the number of J class seats would have been too low. The irony here is of course we are talking about a former French colony using Boeing 777 flying to France.

AirGAbon · Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:33 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):
The irony here is of course we are talking about a former French colony using Boeing 777 flying to France.

Reunion Island (RUN) is not a former French colony, it is a French department (French Overseas Department) equal in status and rights as any other department of mainland France, using the Euro as currency and offering the same public services (hospitals, postmail, education, taxes, infrastructures, healthcare, pensions etc.).

Hawai can be a comparison. Thus, all the flights between ORY (AF and SS), CDG (UU) and RUN are considered as French domestic flights.

SKAirbus · Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:42 pm

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 21):
Hawai can be a comparison. Thus, all the flights between ORY (AF and SS), CDG (UU) and RUN are considered as French domestic flights.

Actually they aren't. The French overseas departments are a fully integrated part of France and as such in the EU but they are not part of the Schengen Area so all passengers (including from France) must clear immigration on arrival and departure.

When travelling between the Mainland US and Hawaii there is no passport control, just an agricultural check.

Polot · Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:23 pm

Not to drag off topic even more, but

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 13):
Um, is Peru a big exporter of asparagus? I thought the big exports were copper which would seem better to ship by boat and leaves crushed into a paste then dried as a powder for high impact energy.

Peru is the world's 2nd largest asparagus producer after China and the number 1 exporter of fresh asparagus with the US being one of its main markets.

Quoting Chaostheory (Reply 17):
I wouldn't call it a freight monster in a pax config.

DL's A330-300s can probably lift more.

In pax config DL's A333s and 77Ls likely are near identical in terms of cargo volume- as they have similar cargo capacity and passenger count (DL's A333s actually hold 2 more people), but the 77L can probably haul heavier cargo further than the the A333.

Quoting skairbus (Reply 18):
If Air Austral need a lighter aircraft with a similar capacity I would suggest either procuring some older 777-200ERs or ordering the A350-900.

I suspect their effectively dead A380 order will eventually be converted to the A350.

Chaostheory · Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:17 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 23):
In pax config DL's A333s and 77Ls likely are near identical in terms of cargo volume- as they have similar cargo capacity and passenger count (DL's A333s actually hold 2 more people), but the 77L can probably haul heavier cargo further than the the A333.

Asparagus and most produce isn't dense, so I doubt the 77L would be lifting more than an A333 on the LIM-ATL sector.

Polot · Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:24 pm

Quoting Chaostheory (Reply 24):
Asparagus and most produce isn't dense, so I doubt the 77L would be lifting more than an A333 on the LIM-ATL sector.

I don't know the density of asparagus cargo and was not commenting on that in particular, I was challenging your assertion that that the A333 in DL's configuration can "probably lift more". In DL's pax configurations the 77L will likely always have the ability to lift more than their A333s. Now whether that extra capability is actually needed for the route is another matter.

PieterBoth · Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:24 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):
The 777LR was the plane they were going to fly to Sydney Australia with. They never did and they were stuck with an 8,000 miles plane for 5,000 flights.

Air Austral did fly to Sydney with the 777LR, and on to Noumea.

RUN-SYD is 5741 miles which is slightly shorter than RUN-CDG which is 5809 miles. I don't think they ever had any 8000 mile flights planned.
I don't know anything about aircraft types and specs. But they did fly to SYD with the 777-300 as well.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):
Maybe they should have tried JFK but that would probably wouldn't have worked as the number of J class seats would have been too low.

Really?! This would surely have done even worse than their RUN-SYD-NOU route.

jfk777 · Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:39 am

Quoting PieterBoth (Reply 26):
y 20):
Maybe they should have tried JFK but that would probably wouldn't have worked as the number of J class seats would have been too low.

Really?! This would surely have done even worse than their RUN-SYD-NOU route.

I said "it probably wouldn't work" so why are you "REALLY' ING Me ?

Sean-SAN- · Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:34 am

LIM is usually max landing weight limited, not take off weight. The 77L would offer 22,000 lb more payload roughly in this situation, over the 772.

jmchevallier · Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:50 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 14):
For performance reasons, or market ones (too expensive for the passengers) ?

Air Austral bought 77L for pure performance reasons : flight non-stop from Mayotte (Indian Ocean) to Paris.

readytotaxi · Fri Nov 20, 2015 4:04 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 23):
Peru is the world's 2nd largest asparagus producer after China

Wow ! Thank you, I learnt something today, who would have thought China would be No 1.

PieterBoth · Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:44 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 27):
I said "it probably wouldn't work" so why are you "REALLY' ING Me ?

I wasn't 'REALLY' ING you, I said 'Really?!' which was meant in a questioning / jest tone, not shouting in aggressive Caps Lock.

SpaceshipDC10 · Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:49 pm

Quoting jmchevallier (Reply 12):
Air Austral purchased the B77L primarily to operate non-stop flights from Mayotte to Paris, expecting this over-powered plane to be able to compensate for the short runway there. I do not believe it worked.

I guess it's not easy to compensate for such short runway when used on a long-haul flight up to France.

Pellegrine · Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:18 pm

Too much aircraft, Boeing should have never pushed it on them in the first place.

Air Austral Removes 777-200LR From Service, Why

Air Austral Removes 777-200LR From Service, Why

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